Blogs > HNN > "BUY DANISH" ASK MY DANISH FRIENDS/ UPDATE

Jan 22, 2007 10:15 pm


"BUY DANISH" ASK MY DANISH FRIENDS/ UPDATE



John Zimmerman is right. The Muslim countries have chosen to pressure liberal little Denmark in order to teach the media and governments, which stand by them, a lesson which does not bode well for free speech or satire. Kuwait has joined the Saudi boycott (the Saudi market alone is worth 1.2 billion) and I suspect the rest will follow. So, here is a plea from my Danish friends:

 

 

"If you Americans look with this great sympathy on our case, couldn't you then raise a consumer support of DK in the US? The opposite of a boycott. A movement of:"Buy Danish!" Please?

You can easily eat and digest all our famous Danish cheese at your millions of breakfast-tables from Seattle to Atlanta. Then the boycott (which is escalating fast down there now) will be harmless.

Well, we can and should. In fact the idea immediately occurred to the readers of Charles of LGF who was kind enough to post the news about the Saudi boycott on his popular site. They recommended you buy not only the always delicious Danish butter cookies but also:

Danish Havarti cheese

Carlsberg and Tuborg Beers.

Arla owns White Clover Dairy, a Wisconsin company so buy that brand. It comes under White Clover and Holland Farm.

Danish Crown hams ( DAK (sold at Sam clubs)... baby back ribs, because they come from Denmark.

You shop online at The Danish Foodshop and Danish Deli Foods.

You can also buy gorgious Danish porcelain and LEGO for the kids.

UPDATE: First, the speed with which this movement took flight is amazing and encouraging. Thanks, guys, for helping spread in on your blogs. The boycott is gathering steam. Our old friend Libya also withdrew its ambassador. But the Danes are standing firm and the EU (for the moment) is standing by them:

 

EU trade chief Peter Mandelson met a Saudi minister at a meeting in the Swiss mountain resort of Davos on Sunday and"urged the minister to convey the seriousness of this issue to his government," his spokesman said.

"Any boycott of Danish goods would be seen as a boycott of European goods," said spokesman Peter Power.

An opinion poll showed that 79 percent of Danes think Fogh Rasmussen should not issue an apology and 62 percent say the newspaper should not apologize.

visit Buy Danish and Danish products.

For must read updates click here




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More Comments:


Satyam Shivam Sundaram - 5/3/2008

Please get your knowledge on vedas clear. U do not understand the meanings of these richas. Please refer to their meaning provided here.
http://www.aryasamajjamnagar.org/


John Hohn - 4/22/2008

Are you related to Janene?


leo menon - 10/2/2006

Misra, as an Indian it is not a nice note to insult our muslim brother like this. I am sure you might be irritated with the happenings in the world of terrorism, and unfortunately or fortunately it is Muslims who are involved in this cowardly act. But if you notice Muslim brothers around you, they are very normal people. As Hinduism is a way of life, so is Islam. I dont really understand the reason for arguments, unless it is in the political arena. It is just the way we live and the way they live, my style of leaving, dressing and eating can resemble a west (which is generally christian) or can resemble a hard core Hindu brahmin or a moderate muslim or hardcore muslim, but we have all kind of people in our friend circle itsef right? Then why the argument just because of the last name? Juz because Hasan does not have enough data or he does not want to show off enough data it does not mean that there is no cruelty happening in Hindu community. Try to project the good, and it really feels good. I have seen this myself and thats the reason I am saying this. I have friends who are sikhs, muslims, christians and from many other religions, and I feel so happy when they join me in my festivals. It makes me feel good when we sit and discuss about the bad acts in this world, and at the end of the day we are just happy to be one happy family without any problems. Misra, and just for your information - Hinduism has evolved after years of meditation and many other experiences which has led to peace, its been a very long evolution compared to any other religion existing in this world. Where as Islam has come the hard way, via revolution that is the difference you see. Might be 1000 years from now, Islam goes through the same evolution.


leo menon - 10/2/2006

Misra, as an Indian it is not a nice note to insult our muslim brother like this. I am sure you might be irritated with the happenings in the world of terrorism, and unfortunately or fortunately it is Muslims who are involved in this cowardly act. But if you notice Muslim brothers around you, they are very normal people. As Hinduism is a way of life, so is Islam. I dont really understand the reason for arguments, unless it is in the political arena. It is just the way we live and the way they live, my style of leaving, dressing and eating can resemble a west (which is generally christian) or can resemble a hard core Hindu brahmin or a moderate muslim or hardcore muslim, but we have all kind of people in our friend circle itsef right? Then why the argument just because of the last name? Juz because Hasan does not have enough data or he does not want to show off enough data it does not mean that there is no cruelty happening in Hindu community. Try to project the good, and it really feels good. I have seen this myself and thats the reason I am saying this. I have friends who are sikhs, muslims, christians and from many other religions, and I feel so happy when they join me in my festivals. It makes me feel good when we sit and discuss about the bad acts in this world, and at the end of the day we are just happy to be one happy family without any problems. Misra, and just for your information - Hinduism has evolved after years of meditation and many other experiences which has led to peace, its been a very long evolution compared to any other religion existing in this world. Where as Islam has come the hard way, via revolution that is the difference you see. Might be 1000 years from now, Islam goes through the same evolution.


Nathan Kehn - 9/23/2006

Let's not mention the fact that Mohammed describes the archangel Gabriel as an angel of light. Paul in the New Testament refers to Satan as one that masquerades as an angel of light and that his followers masquerade as servents of righteousness. But their works will be their own revealing of their true nature. Let's also not mention the fact that when Allah is refering to Jesus in the Koran the word translated into English from Arabic is the word used for Jesus in the New Testament, not the name given to Him in His native langauge, which translated to English is Joshua. Jesus is the name the Greeks refered to Him as. Joshua is the correct English translation of the name Yeshua (the name of the Messiah or Christ, as the Greeks called Him). Why then if Mohammed's Allah is all-knowing would he make the mistake of calling Yeshua the name refered to Him by the Greeks instead of His true name? The reason is because the Koran is flawed and not of God, but Satan. Period.


SCott Edwards - 9/21/2006

YOU WROTE: The Quran is crystal clear in stating, "There is no compulsion in religion." (Quran 2:256)

Well, if that is true where the concept of jihadism come from? Look history and present day websites are replete with Muslim persecution. Go to persecution.org and you'll see countless examples and photos.

Christians want love - not death; Muslim clerics constantly bask and broadcast the virtues of death... death toward America, death toward the pig Jews.

Go home and leave us alone.


Sam A Elias - 8/11/2006

To your reply this is wat i say: You are a person with no brains to think and no heart to feel, it is too sad that people of your kind stil exiest in this world you should be ashamed of yourself and country too for what you have done...you think by wearing such offencive drawings to muslims or by offending us in other ways we will change our faith?? you are WRONG, our faith will get stronger and straonger because this shows how others are jealous from Muslims... GO BURN IN HELL!!


Iron Carvel - 7/8/2006

I feel like doing the same too, but then freedom of speech becomes pure provocation. Not a good idea.


tina elizabeth chappell - 6/4/2006

I really want to introduce some of our Australian friends to the joys of a Danish supper....but without the snaps I've no chance! Any ideas of where we can get some in Australia or sent on line?


S Misra - 5/17/2006

They are crazy. Well, here's another problem: If they ever send a long term mission, how will that person make the obligatory once in a lifetime visit to the meteorite in Mecca? They will probably be safer in space though since in Mecca, pilgrims regularly get trompled to death in stampedes.


ME - 5/11/2006

Danes should react the same way against islam when they see how the muslim men treat womenlike animals or slaves!! In Denmark the freedom of women and women's rights are almost as holy as islam's prophet for the Danes, so why not...lol


randyzacks - 5/8/2006

I don't believe, I yet, have any Danish friends.


Allah - 5/7/2006

Lost Verses of the Koran

Surah 115: The Pig

Bismillah:

The hurried flight of the Hegira had led the Muslims to a fertile oasis, where they were at last safe from their many enemies in Mecca.
Pausing, each thanked Allah the moon-god for their good fortune.
Assembling at a long table, they enjoyed rare delicacies brought by bare-breasted sirens whose faces were veiled. During the feast Muhammad sternly forbade his disciples to partake of pig flesh, while fondling the youthful breasts of a Nubian girl named Sheba.
Obeying the Prophet, the pilgrims partook of the succulent flesh of jackals and vultures, washing their food down with strong wine.
“I never dreamed I’d have to eat the loins of a jackal, let alone the bitter entrails of a cursed vulture,” observed a hungry pilgrim named Ahmed to a fellow Muslim, choking on the unpalatable morsels.
“Neither did I, but the Holy Prophet has ordered it,” grumbled another starving follower, almost heaving as he consumed greasy vulture flesh.
“A rancid pork chop would taste a hell of a lot better than this crap does,” retorted Ahmed.
“It’s an acquired taste brother, you’ll get used to it,” spoke up another, smiling with a mouthful of rotten teeth.
“I don’t think so,” said Ahmed, forcing down a burned jackal testicle.
An uncaring Muhammad, famished, greedily wolfed down roasted jackal in enjoyment, quaffing from an earthenware wine carafe on occasion, while choosing which of the sirens that would soon endure his favors.
The meal finished in the late afternoon, a drunken, lustful Muhammad initiated a sex orgy with the sirens, the debauched Holy Prophet, Allah speaking through him, declaring all earlier betrothals or marriages of the women he knew null and void.
The Muslims celebrated their good fortune, again thanking Allah for the bounty they had been blessed to receive.
Later, as Muhammad sat half-naked under a palm tree, masturbating to the thought of molesting little girls, Ahmed chanced by and remarked, "Oh great prophet, why does Allah say that we cannot dine on delicious porcine flesh?"
"Why?" asked Muhammad, closing his filthy, tattered, moth-eaten robe, "Because Allah's younger retarded cyclops brother is a pig, and Allah doesn't want us killing his holy kinfolk."
"Allah is a pig?" asked Ahmed, staring at Muhammad.
"Of course," replied the deranged Prophet, hallucinating thanks to ingesting strong hashish minutes earlier.
"That's ridiculous, why in hell do we worship pigs?" asked Ahmed, thinking his flight from Mecca may have been the result of heeding the words of a false prophet, possessed of a capricious desert demon who delighted in seeing them consume the flesh of vermin.
"Because they're better than we are," answered a smiling Muhammad, now fantasizing about raping little boys, "Look at me, I'm little more than a lecherous child molester, thief and murderer!"
"True, but pigs can't even talk!" exclaimed Ahmed, digging a heel into the sand.
"Allah can, he speaks to me in my dreams," retorted the wildly hallucinating Muhammad, barely able to focus on Ahmed, seeing him in double vision.
"You're a madman," declared a disgusted Ahmed, "I'm heading back to join the infidels in Mecca!"
"Who cares?" retorted Muhammad, slurring his words and breaking into riotous laughter.
Prophet Muhammad, opening his robe and again reaching for his flaccid sex organ, was too occupied with masturbating his building erection to reply further, while Ahmed disappeared behind a sand dune.
"What a stupid, perverted, licentious bastard," spat Ahmed, walking off, "Muhammad is crazier than a shithouse rat!"

Surah 116: The Pervert

Bismillah:

And it came to pass that Muhammad was growing ever hornier and more depraved: In a dream it was revealed by Allah that he was to molest a young girl named Ayesha.
Drunk on strong wine, the Prophet looked to a follower named Khalil and announced, “Allah has said I am to have sex on this day with a child; the virgin daughter of my brother in law Abu.”
“What?” asked a frowning Khalil, holding a wine bottle, taken back by the remark and turning to Muhammad.
“I am to know Abu’s daughter Ayesha,” declared Muhammad, a finger in the air, becoming visibly aroused at the thought having sex with her.
“She is but a little girl who plays with dolls; her womb does not yet weep, are you insane?” asked Khalil, knowing in his heart that the Prophet was little more than a pervert, thief, liar and murderer.
“Probably, but it is the will of Allah”, Muhammad said to himself, staggering off to the hovel of Ayesha.
“What a twisted devil the Prophet is – the will of Allah my ass, he’s just an evil, depraved monster who lusts after the flesh,” Khalil mumbled, putting the bottle to his parched lips.
An oblivious and uncaring Muhammad blundered down the street, weaving as he went, arriving at the hovel shortly thereafter.
Knocking on the door, Ayesha’s mother Umm appeared.
“What do you want Prophet?” she asked, staring at the debauched Muhammad, clad in a filthy tan robe covered in dust and wine stains, a lone flea crawling upon his moustache near his nostrils.
“Bismillah, I am here to take your daughter Ayesha in bed,” the Prophet answered, slurring his words.
“You licentious beast!” exclaimed the girl’s mother, “She is only six years old, if it is indeed the will of Allah, take me instead to satisfy your wanton depravity!”
“Taking you is not the will of Allah,” retorted Muhammad, the scent of wine heavy on his foul breath, “You are a wrinkled and faded flower without comeliness; be gone with your favors; I could never get a hard on at the likes of you.”
Enraged by her rebuff, Muhammad smote her upon the face with a backhand.
“That’s what one gets for disobeying the will of Allah,” declared Muhammad, his words punctuated by a loud belch, “Take me to Ayesha, that I may know her on this day!”
Obeying, Umm reluctantly led Muhammad to the room of Ayesha, opening the door.
“This perverted Prophet here wants to screw you,” announced Umm with a frown, Muhammad ogling the virgin child in double vision.
“But you knew my cousin Abdullah, younger brother of Ahmed not an hour ago,” replied a shocked Ayesha, dropping her doll, revolted by the sight of the filthy, lascivious pedophile Muhammad.
“Be that as it may, Allah has said I will also know you,” said Muhammad with an expectant smile, the gleam of lust in his eyes.
“Why me?” asked Ayesha, looking to the Prophet with trepidation.
“Because Allah has said it and I am horny, let us lay down, that I may know you,” ordered Muhammad as he removed his robe, Ayesha’s mother shaking her head in helpless disgust and closing the door.

Surah 117: The Murderer

Bismillah:

Muhammad and his followers enjoyed many days away from Mecca at the oasis, home of his oafish brother in law, Abu Bakr, who was also Muslim.
Dining on roast jackal, vultures and snakes, their strength was renewed by the bounty Allah the moon-god provided: plentiful food for their bellies and plentiful sirens for their carnal pleasure.
Khalil was upset that the Prophet was an evil lecherous pedophile who had known a little girl, so he went to the home of Ayesha to speak with her father, Abu the oaf.
He made his way to the hovel, and knocked on the door.
Ayesha’s mother opened the door, frowning as she beheld another of Prophet Muhammad’s followers.
“Is life not bad enough, what are you here for, to rape my daughter, me, or one of my sons?” she inquired with disdain.
“Indeed not woman, I must speak with your husband, not you,” said Khalil, who as a good Muslim, looked down upon women as little more than objects of pleasure, or dogs to be beaten into submission.
“My husband Abu is very drunk,” she related, lowering her gaze in respect.
Khalil entering the hovel, the oaf Abu appeared from a side room holding a wine bottle, and slurred, “What do want here, follower of the Prophet?”
“I must speak with you regarding your little daughter Ayesha,” answered Khalil.
“What about her?” asked Abu, blinking his eyes and trying to focus on the man.
“The Prophet came unto her in her room a fortnight ago; do you not know?” asked Khalil.
“He has come unto her many times since, she is his wife,” replied the unconcerned oaf.
“His wife you say - you permitted it?” asked Khalil, stunned by the revelation.
“Of course; he has come unto one of my nephews too, Muhammad is a pederast, it is the will of Allah,” declared a shrugging Abu.
“He’s raping our child you drunken bastard!” exclaimed a tearful Umm, looking to Khalil.
Abu smote her across the face, admonishing, “Take care woman, speak not ill of Prophet Muhammad, it is the will of Allah. The Prophet first knew Ayesha in a dream, when Gabriel showed her to him, uncovering her body for him to see.”
“That’s really sick, she’s only six years old,” observed Khalil.
“Better for the great Prophet to know her than one of the infidels,” declared a smiling Abu.
“Prophet my ass, Muhammad is a depraved monster possessed of a demon; how could permit such a thing, you are her father!” exclaimed Khalil in utter disgust.
“Yes I am, and the Prophet says I will know her too,” confessed Abu, contemplating the odd thought of having sex with his own daughter.
Umm burst into tears and sobbed, throwing herself to the floor upon hearing Abu’s repugnant words.
A fearful Khalil fled the hovel, not knowing what to think; realizing Muhammad and his brother in law Abu were wicked licentious perverts and vicious rapers of children, possessed of capricious and malevolent demons.
Later, Abu spoke with the Prophet while they entered a brothel together. He told him of the strange encounter with Khalil.
Khalil’s an idiot, he takes Islam much too seriously,” replied Muhammad, looking to his oafish brother in law.
“It is a bad omen Prophet, Khalil woefully disdains your marriage to Ayesha, and disdains that I am to know her too,” declared Abu, even he feeling deep down that such a liaison was distasteful, but knowing it was the unalterable will of Allah, the moon god.
“It is the will of Allah for you to know your daughter, did not Lot of Sodom know his daughters in the cave?” asked a slurring Muhammad, quite drunk, leaning against a wall to steady himself.
“Yes Prophet, he did,” answered Abu with firm resolve.
“Indeed, it was and is Allah’s will,” replied Muhammad, picking a flea from his beard and crushing it between his fingernails, “As for our problem, I will have a dream tonight, and Allah will order me to kill Khalil.”
“He will?” asked Abu, putting a hand to his chin in confusion, “But I thought the Perfect, Most Merciful Pig Allah never revealed his intentions until you had a dream.”
“No matter oaf, he is making his will known to me by making me drink strong wine on this day,” said a quickly lying Muhammad, holding up a bottle.
“Don’t you drink strong wine everyday?” asked Abu.
“Not as strong as this stuff,” replied the Prophet with a broad smile, “It has hashish oil in it; let us partake of a pair of this brothel’s women and enjoy wine together.”
As Muhammad and Abu descended into more revelry and debauchery, a troubled Khalil approached another of the Prophet’s followers, the one with rotten teeth. Telling him of his woes, he awaited the reply.
“Who cares what he does, have vulture and some wine,” said the man, tearing a leg from a roasted, maggot-ridden carcass and offering it to Khalil.
“You don’t care that Muhammad is a deranged pervert who has sex with little children?” asked Khalil, taking the leg.
“Hell no, I’m only here for the food, I was starving in the alleys of Mecca before I met Muhammad,” replied the rotten toothed man, grabbing more vulture flesh and a wine bottle.
“Oh,” answered a defeated Khalil, taking a bite from the leg and reaching for wine.
Late evening came, with Khalil and the other followers drunk and passed out in their tent.
Muhammad and Abu awoke at the brothel after midnight, rested and refreshed.
“What are we to do about Khalil?” asked Abu as they left via a side door, avoiding an encounter with the brothel’s madam, to whom they owed money.
“Leave that to me oaf,” answered the Prophet, holding up a hand, “In my dream Allah told me how to deal with him.”
Muhammad headed down the street and stealthily entered the tent of his followers, intent on taking Khalil’s life. Abu Bakr followed him through the entrance, looking about for possible witnesses.
Holding an oiled leather garrote, the smiling Prophet mercilessly strangled the sleeping Khalil, knowing in his heart that it was the will of Allah.
The helpless follower struggled defiantly as a determined Muhammad gritted his teeth and pulled the garrote tighter, crushing Khalil’s windpipe, the Prophet letting out foul gas from his posterior due to the exertion. The struggling ceased; he and Abu then quietly removed the body from the tent and carried it into the desert.
“That takes care of that problem,” declared a satisfied Muhammad as he pocketed the garrote, he and Abu making their way to his hovel so he could know his young wife Ayesha again.
“When will I know her Prophet?” inquired Abu in the lamplit hovel, looking to his daughter’s room.
“Very soon, Allah has said it, go know your wife Umm for now, oaf,” suggested Muhammad with a smile, opening the door to Ayesha’s room.

Surah 118: The Liar

Bismillah:

Time passed, and a strengthened Muhammad and his followers left the fertile oasis. The Prophet was joined by his young wife Ayesha and her father, oaf Abu, who left the remainder of his family stranded at the oasis, his wife Umm dying of grief shortly afterward.
Not one of the party dared question the vanishing of Khalil, some fearing that they too would vanish, perhaps due to Allah’s will or worse.
Muhammad told his followers that Khalil was an evil infidel, and had fled because he had coveted Ayesha, the child looking to her husband the Prophet, she and her father knowing he was not telling the truth.
“That is not true my father, Khalil only came to tell you of the Prophet knowing me,” Ayesha whispered, she and Abu standing only a few cubits from Muhammad.
“Take care in what you utter among others child, some things are better kept to oneself,” answered Abu quietly, not half the oaf the Prophet thought he was.
The rotten toothed man was listening intently; he had watched from the shadows while a smiling Muhammad strangled Khalil, but wisely kept this knowledge to himself, vowing to flee the group at the earliest opportunity.
Abu Bakr, fulfilling the will of Allah, came unto his daughter Ayesha over several evenings in a tent at the beckoning of the Holy Prophet, oddly finding her favors more satisfying than those of his wife.
Feeling strange from the experience of knowing his own daughter, a troubled Abu sought wise Muhammad’s advice.
“It was the will of Allah,” declared the debauched Muhammad, drunk on strong wine, “Allah has also revealed it is you which will sire her firstborn in her twelfth year; her incestuous bastard child Fatimah.”
“I will?” asked Abu, incredulous that he would be siring a child by his own daughter.
“Yes,” replied the Prophet, removing his filthy robe, “But first I must satisfy my carnal urges, by indulging in her favors myself.”
Prophet Muhammad entered the tent and came unto the young Ayesha, who complained that she was sore from knowing her father three times in one day.
Striking her across the face, Muhammad admonished, “Keep your mouth shut wife and be thankful to Allah that only I and your father are knowing you.”
“Yes Holy Prophet,” Ayesha replied, closing her eyes and wincing in pain as Muhammad again knew her.
Arriving in Medina the following week, the Muslims found friends in this city, delighting in drunken revelry and the favors of veiled, tempting harlots with dark eyes.
A lecherous Muhammad, Ayesha and his brother in law Abu took up residence at a fine brothel, the Prophet and the oaf sampling the offerings over many weeks, finding that Medina had the finest of all harlots in the land.
Many residents of Medina found that Islam was a faith that appealed to them, Allah’s unalterable will moving the people, they abandoning their staid ways, joining with Prophet Muhammad in idleness, licentious revelry and drunkenness.
Abu later visited the Prophet in his tent, informing him of dreadful news that Medina was host to a band of Jews.
“Jews you say, the people of the book,” answered Muhammad, “They are bitter enemies of Allah and Islam; we will not suffer such people to live in our midst.”
“But there are 40 score or more of them in the city Prophet, do the warriors of Allah have the numbers to defeat them?” asked Abu.
“Of course oaf,” declared the evil Muhammad, “We shall wait until the dark of night, prowling by stealth, and then cut their throats as they slumber; Allah has willed it.”
Listening in the shadows, the rotten toothed man determined it was time for him to flee. Regardless of the free food, he wanted no part of a group of vicious, skulking cowards who would slaughter people as they slept.
Allah’s will was fulfilled on the next night, 40 score Jews meeting their end at the hands of the deranged, murderous pedophile Muhammad and his obedient Muslims.

Surah 119: The Thief

Bismillah:

A fortnight passed, with many of the remaining people of Medina embracing Islam, and others fleeing for their lives, with the exception of a wealthy merchant named Sabri and his family.
Sabri vexed the followers with his words that Prophet Muhammad was little more than a drunken liar, murderer, and wanton sexual pervert; a wicked, lascivious monster and pedophile who kept the company of prostitutes, drunks and the slothful.
In another dream, the Holy Prophet learned that the vexing merchant had to be silenced, and that he had been chosen by Allah to murder him.
Telling Abu of his dream, he and Abu plotted the murder of Sabri the merchant. After enjoying strong wine together, they headed to his home on a dark late evening, let in by a lovely servant girl.
Muhammad and the oaf Abu observed the opulence of his residence; Sabri dressed in a fine silk robe with a silk turban, seven rings of gold and silver on his fingers.
His wife and the lovely servant girl brought food and a carafe of wine for her husband, they disdainfully looking upon the filthy, debauched Prophet and his henchman Abu.
“Why will you not submit to Islam, it is the will of Allah,” declared the evil Muhammad, looking to Sabri, looking for the chance to end his life.
“The will of Allah my ass, you Muhammad are a murderous debauched lecher and raper of children. Your loathsome followers feed on the rancid flesh of vermin instead of fine pork roasts, and defile all that they touch,” declared a disgusted Sabri, noting that the Prophet was drunk, dressed in a filthy tattered robe, with his unkempt hair and long beard matted with dirt.
“I consume the flesh of vermin too, Great Allah is a Holy, Merciful Pig, it is not halal to dine on the sacred flesh of his younger brothers,” said Muhammad with a finger in the air, Abu nodding in agreement.
“No, it is you who are a pig, you deranged cretin possessed of a vile demon,” retorted Sabri, looking upon the Prophet with hatred in his eyes.
“Those who do not submit to the will of Allah will suffer dire consequences,” threatened Abu, looking about for anyone who would dare stop them. Observing only two women in the house, he smiled, knowing that the will of Allah was about to be fulfilled.
Sabri paused, staring at the Prophet and Abu in contempt, hoping he could in some way persuade them to leave the city, noting that business had fallen off to practically nothing since the arrival of the Muslims.
“Look, if I give you money, will you and yours flee Medina and never return?” asked Sabri with folded hands, hoping he could encourage them to leave with a payment of fine gold.
“I can’t leave,” declared a smiling Muhammad, “I am serving Great Allah, the Most Merciful Pig.”
Sabri, confused for a moment, replied, “But I thought Allah was the moon goddess of Mecca.”
“Whatever,” retorted a shrugging, uncaring Muhammad while picking his nose, he knowing that Allah didn’t exist anyway.
“You are destroying Medina with your vile harlotry and wicked ways!” exclaimed Sabri.
The Prophet laughed, and replied, “Indeed not, Allah is guiding my hand in this and all my actions, providing me and my followers with what we desire: food, fine drink and the company of willing sirens, like your lovely servant girl back there.”
“My servant girl is betrothed to a good man in Mecca, you will not speak ill of her, nor will you covet her favors,” declared Sabri, noting Muhammad leering through an open door, ogling the girl and his wife.
“I will do as I wish,” retorted the evil Muhammad with another laugh, reaching into his tattered, filthy robe and producing the garrote, “I covet the favors of your servant girl, and will take her to my bed for a concubine on this night. Those such as you will not stop the will of Allah or his Messenger.”
Abu rose while the Prophet was speaking and smote Sabri upon the face with a closed fist, knocking the silk turban from his head. Muhammad descended upon him like a viper, pulling the garrote tightly around his throat, strangling him in his chair while his wife and servant girl screamed.
“Be silent women, it is the will of Allah!” Muhammad yelled through gritted teeth as he took the life of Sabri. Oaf Abu moved into the room and beat them into submission while a struggling Sabri kicked the wine carafe from the table, it shattering on the floor.
Sabri’s life vanquished, Prophet Muhammad exhaled loudly and let the lifeless body tumble to the floor.
The trembling women remained silent as Abu returned to the Prophet with them.
“Where is your money?” asked a greedy Abu of Sabri’s wife.
“A box of gold and silver is in our bedroom,” answered his tearful wife, almost fainting from Abu’s foul breath.
“I’ll get it,” volunteered a smiling Muhammad, pulling the garrote from the body, “Get the rings from his fingers oaf.”
The Prophet returned with a box of glittering coins, pleased that Allah had provided such bounty for his followers.
“I can’t get the last ring off,” complained Abu, having pocketed six others.
“Cut off his finger to get it, and take his robe and turban too,” ordered Muhammad, determined not to leave one valuable item in the house.
Abu obeyed, reaching for a knife on the table, slicing off the finger and pulling the ring from it.
Arriving at the brothel, the Prophet celebrated his good fortune by knowing Sabri’s wife and the servant girl, annulling the widow’s marriage and the girl’s betrothal in the eyes of Allah.
Later that evening Abu was given Sabri’s widow for a concubine, as he had grown weary of Ayesha’s favors, also needing an able slave to cook and serve him.
Having to beat her before he knew her, Abu thanked Allah and Muhammad for the welcome gift of Sabri’s wife.

Surah 120: The Hypocrite

Bismillah:

More time passed, with some of Muhammad’s followers finding the Prophet’s actions in Medina going against everything he had preached in Mecca, seeing him as Khalil, the rotten toothed man, and the merchant Sabri had seen him: an evil, debauched rapist, pedophile, liar, and murderer.
These and other apostate followers were quickly slaughtered as infidels, fulfilling the will of Allah; a smiling Muhammad strangling many of them as they slept.
Even Abu began to think that Muhammad’s wanton depravity may have been going too far when he encountered him in a tent knowing several young Jewish boys that had been taken captive.
“Prophet, some of the followers are complaining that you are denying them participation in the bounty given us by Allah, and that you are also practicing strange acts that Allah has forbidden to others,” related Abu, frowning at the displeasing thought of Muhammad knowing little boys.
“They want some of the gold, right oaf?” asked a drunken Muhammad, dressed in Sabri’s silk robe and turban, seven rings of gold and silver upon his greasy fingers, the fine garb growing filthier with each passing day.
“That, and some of them would also like to have some of the girls and boys for concubines,” answered Abu.
“They cannot have the little boys, Allah has given them to me for my carnal pleasure,” declared the lascivious Prophet, “As for the little girls, give them to the followers as wives, so that their carnal desires can be sated; it is the will of Allah.”
“Others say that you don’t practice what you have preached,” added a fidgeting Abu, hoping not to arouse Muhammad’s maniacal wrath.
“I’m only the messenger, Allah’s revelations don’t apply to me,” retorted Muhammad, releasing a tearful Jewish boy from his carnal embrace.
“What about me?” asked Abu.
“They don’t apply to you either oaf; would you like a lovely little boy for your carnal pleasure?” slurred the depraved sodomite Muhammad, lustfully leering at another boy he had chosen next to debauch.
“No, I find not that boys appeal to me,” answered Abu quietly, though he was a lecherous pedophile and incestuous pervert, he had no desire to sodomize little boys.
“Suit yourself oaf, more for me to enjoy,” answered the Prophet with a chuckle, undressing another captive boy, returning to his lecherous pederasty as Abu left the tent.
The city of Medina had been taken completely by the conquering Muslims, they reveling in their murderous victory over the infidels and Jews.
In another dream, it was revealed to Muhammad by Allah that they were to attack and conquer the city of Mecca. They were to subdue it and convert the inhabitants there to Islam, after which the Prophet was to take a pagan shrine called the Kaaba and defile it in the name of Allah.
“In Mecca there is glittering plunder, fine gold to steal, and many women to be taken for concubines,” declared the Prophet, “Allah has said to have faith in him and we will not fail; are you with me, warriors for Islam?”
The devoted followers answered, shouting in unison: There is no god but Allah the Pig, and Muhammad is his prophet!”
“We will need weapons to defeat them,” Abu observed, looking to the Holy Prophet.
“Easily done oaf,” replied an unconcerned Muhammad, ordering several henchmen to plunder the city of metal so weapons could be quickly fashioned.
Bronze implements were seized from every home; plowshares were heated and beaten into fine scimitars for the devoted followers.
As his followers labored over hot forges, Muhammad gave a sermon, declaring that vengeance, blood and death would rain down upon Mecca in the name of Allah.
The work completed over several days, a feast was held by the warriors of Islam to further strengthen them for the long journey; the flesh of rats, snakes, vultures and jackals gracing their tables. The hungry Prophet had a willing siren prepare his favorite of all dishes, fat dung beetles boiled in seasoned vulture broth.
“We should give Allah our thanks for the bounty he has provided,” declared Muhammad, seated at the head of his table beside Abu, crushing the hard shell of a dung beetle between his filthy brown teeth.
All bowed their heads in prayer, thanking Allah for the food he had provided.
“Would you like to enjoy a tasty dung beetle oaf?” asked the Prophet, turning to his brother in law, offering one to him.
“No thanks,” replied a nauseated Abu, choking down a plateful of greasy rat flesh.
Washing the unseemly morsels down with strong wine, Muhammad and his followers filled their bellies with the bitter flesh of vermin and then enjoyed the welcome favors of tempting, veiled harlots with dark eyes.
The Muslims, their women and their captives set out for Mecca on the following week, determined to exact Allah’s revenge on the people who dwelt there.
“There are many able men in Mecca, much more than we have,” observed Abu, realizing their numbers were wanting when compared to the teeming hordes of infidels occupying Mecca.
“Allah will watch over us oaf,” replied Muhammad, a sharp scimitar on his hip, he unsure as to what the outcome would be, but keeping this from the others and preparing for the worst.
“There aren’t enough of us Prophet – how will we win?” asked Abu with his arms in the air, looking at their limited numbers, no more than 50 score of able men in the service of Allah.
“Great Allah has said it, they in Mecca will embrace Islam or die for resisting his will,” the vengeful Prophet declared as Medina disappeared behind them in the distance.
A thoughtful Abu wondered why Allah would wish his followers to attack a fortified city where they were outnumbered, and also as to why Allah would have chosen a debauched murderer and licentious pervert for his Prophet.
“Oh well, it is the will of Allah,” agreed a sardonic Abu, much too committed to the deranged Prophet and Islam to back out, checking for the scimitar on his hip.

Surah 121: The Coward

Bismillah:

Returning to the oasis to gather strength before attacking Mecca, Muhammad and his followers again feasted on the bitter flesh of vermin and partook of the favors of eager women, the depraved Prophet coming unto the veiled, bare breasted Nubian harlot Sheba.
Oaf Abu learned that his wife Umm had died, Muhammad stating to him over strong wine that it was Allah’s will.
A grieving Abu came unto his new wife, the widow of Sabri, and also knew his daughter Ayesha, fulfilling the will of Allah the Pig.
The Holy Prophet also lusted for Abu’s bride, demanding that he be permitted to lay with her again.
A shrugging Abu handed her over, an angry Muhammad having to beat the stiff-necked infidel woman once again before he knew her.
“You evil murderous beast!” she screamed in tears as Muhammad was knowing her, “May the gods of my fathers destroy you and all you have wrought!”
“How dare you attempt to curse me or Allah,” grunted the Prophet as he reached orgasm, his fetid breath causing her to heave, “Take care woman, or I will expose you as the sorceress you are, giving you over to be stoned by my devoted followers.”
“Better to be dead than to endure your vile attentions again,” Abu’s wife retorted as the Prophet rose from her bed.
“Bitch,” Muhammad muttered as he left Abu’s tent, adjusting his filthy silk turban.
Leaving the oasis on the third day, the devoted Muslims resumed their journey to Mecca, Abu still troubled about their limited numbers and telling the Holy Prophet of his doubts.
“Don’t worry oaf, we will remain behind while the first wave of our brothers besiege and subdue the infidels in Mecca,” Muhammad declared in a low tone of voice, Ayesha looking up to him and frowning.
“Do you have a problem with that wife?” asked Muhammad, strangely controlling his compulsion to beat her for daring to disagree with Allah’s unalterable will.
Ayesha remained silent and looked to the ground, Abu answering, “I thought we would lead them in battle.”
“No, we are to remain behind and observe the followers take the city, it is the will of Allah,” replied Muhammad, he filled with doubts and preferring to watch from afar, as the strong hashish he had eaten in Medina had worn off long ago.
Arriving outside the city walls under cover of night, the Muslims prepared for battle in the only way they knew: skulking by stealth and murdering defenseless people while they slept.
As a full moon rose, a vanguard of devoted followers scaled the city walls, only to be discovered and cut down by the defenders of Mecca.
“Attack in the name of Allah!” shouted Muhammad while retreating to a bluff with Abu, his wives and several trusted followers, the Meccans opening the city gates to meet the glorious warriors of Allah in battle.
Seeing the Holy Prophet on the bluff by moonlight, this sight strengthened the attacking Muslims.
“The battle is not going very well,” observed Abu as the moon rose higher, watching the Muslim army being wiped out.
“Yes, Allah is displeased that our faith was not strong enough,” replied a strangely detached Muhammad, staring from the bluff at the carnage outside the walls of Mecca.
“That, or we didn’t have enough men, I told you,” retorted Abu, watching several followers being hacked to death by the defenders.
“That is possible oaf,” admitted Muhammad, Abu frowning at the reply.
“What do you plan to do to save your followers Prophet?” asked Ayesha.
“Nothing, it is Allah’s will,” replied Muhammad with a shrug, still watching the battle.
Abu’s frown grew into anger as he watched a smiling Muhammad delight in the butchery of his followers.
“You’ve lost at least 30 score since the moon rose, do you intend to stay until we are slaughtered too?” asked Abu’s wife.
“How dare you speak to me unless spoken to!” exclaimed the Prophet, preparing to smite her across the face.
“My good wife Fahimah makes a wise observation,” declared Abu, using her given name for the first time, grasping Muhammad’s forearm, preventing him from striking the widow.
Pulling away from Abu, the Prophet paused and replied, “It’s time for us to leave oaf, we shall retreat to the oasis to pray and fast.”
A defeated Muhammad and his trusted followers left the bluff and headed back toward the oasis in the moonlight. Looking over his shoulder, the Prophet feared that vengeful Meccans might pursue them.
“Let us make haste,” declared Muhammad, fearing for his life.
Several days passed as they retreated from Mecca, the remaining band of Muslims at last pausing for needed rest and making a camp in the desert.
The captive Fahimah had grown to respect her new husband Abu, as he had prevented the Holy Prophet from striking her outside the walls of Mecca. Making him a meal of jackal flesh soup, she presented it to him in his tent.
“Thank you woman,” Abu replied, taking an earthenware bowl and strong wine, she nodding and leaving him to eat.
As Abu was eating, a stir rose in the camp: a lone survivor of the battle having at last caught up to the followers. Putting down his bowl, he left the tent to find the survivor admonishing Muhammad.
“You coward,” he gasped, “You left us to die, have you no faith in your visions, or are they only lies coming from your vile mouth?”
The Prophet, drunk, answered, “I had a dream after the battle, it was Allah’s will that we were defeated, as it was his will that you survived. We lost because our faith in Allah was not strong enough.”
“You lied, telling us of easy plunder and women; there weren’t enough of us to take Mecca, 50 score died outside the gates for nothing!” the man exclaimed.
“No matter, have dung beetles and strong wine to renew your strength,” slurred Muhammad, picking fleas from his beard and flinging them into a small fire at his side.
The man, much too exhausted to argue further, gratefully took a plate of boiled dung beetles and a bottle of wine, trudging off from the deranged Prophet in disgust.
A shocked Abu observed this from the shadows and retreated to his tent. Such knowledge set heavy upon him, he meditating privately on the events.
Finishing his meal, he called for his wife Fahimah, she appearing before him.
I would hear your words wife on this matter: Muhammad preaches Islam, yet he does not follow the words of Allah.”
“He is your Prophet, you have sworn to serve him and Allah, my words are those of an infidel,” she answered respectfully.
“Still I would hear them, for there is wisdom in what you utter,” Abu replied.
Fahimah, still fearful of her brutal husband, yet bound by her personal honor to obey, told him of her thoughts on the Prophet and his actions.
“I care not what god he worships, but this demon in man’s guise is not a prophet of a clean desert god,” she began.
Abu looked at her as she continued, “He forces his followers to consume the flesh of vermin, delighting in their disgust. I truly believe him to be so perverted as to rape an infant - he has others carry out his murderous work while he has no courage to fight himself: you should draw a knife across your daughter Ayesha’s throat and my own to save us from the corruption of this man.”
Abu, oaf that he was, looked at her silently as she urged him to destroy the demon Prophet Muhammad, her wise words much harder to ignore than the screechings of his deceased wife Umm.

Surah 122: Muhammad the Merciless

Bismillah:

Abu Bakr, though he had listened to the wise words of his good wife Fahimah, found the prospects of strong wine, glittering plunder and wanton sexual pleasure outweighed her foreboding admonitions; he advising her to remain silent with regard to the Holy Prophet. For this request, he agreed that he would do his best to keep the depraved Muhammad from coming unto her.
The widow bowed her head respectfully, obeying her brutal husband.
Staying for a time to renew their strength at the oasis, Muhammad announced over a fine evening meal that they would return to Medina and take it in the name of Allah.
“That will be easy, considering we slaughtered everyone there who resisted us,” slurred a drunken Abu, he, the Prophet and their closest followers sitting at a long table. Veiled, tempting sirens with bare breasts served the bounty Allah had provided: the flesh of vultures, vipers, and lizards gracing the table.
“Good point oaf,” the deranged Muhammad agreed, seven rings of gold and silver on his fingers, his mouth stuffed with roast vulture. He swallowed, belched loudly and added, “Allah revealed to me in a dream that Medina will be our base, and from there we shall send brave warriors out to capture and recruit new followers.”
“More men will be needed after the debacle at Mecca,” replied Abu, looking to their limited numbers, choking down the bitter flesh of a fat, boiled viper with another gulp of wine.
The evil Prophet hid a smile at the sight of Abu’s nausea; watching from the head of the table in delight as his devoted followers dined on the flesh of vermin. “No matter about the others, they are dead and gone, it was the will of Allah,” declared an uncaring Muhammad, spitting a shard of fractured vulture bone to the table. Wiping greasy hands on his filthy silk robe, he grabbed a wine bottle and took a deep drink from it. “My belly still rumbles, bring tasty dung beetles to sate my gnawing hunger,” he ordered to a siren nearest him.
The lone survivor of the battle of Mecca, a swarthy Bedouin named Hamal, sat at the table, eating from an earthenware bowl of lizard soup, seasoned with ground peppercorns, onions and the juices of crushed scorpions. Having considered his low standing amongst his fellow Muslims for calling the Prophet a lying coward to his face, he wished to make amends by making himself useful to Muhammad. In return, he hoped the murderous Prophet would allow him to live, so he, like his debauched leader, would have the chance to kill, rape and plunder in the name of Pig Allah, the moon god.
Their meal finished, a lustful, drunken Muhammad initiated another sex orgy with the sirens, the warriors of Islam delighting in the licentious revelry: the debauched Prophet entering the tent of the Nubian harlot Sheba, relieving his carnal urges while held in her willing arms.
“Oh great Prophet, if it is the will of Allah, will you take me as one of your beloved wives to Medina?” asked Sheba, looking up to him with seductive, dark eyes as he continued to know her.
“Sure, as my young bride Ayesha often grows sore from my constant attentions,” grunted Muhammad, reaching orgasm for a third time, finding her the most satisfying harlot he had ever encountered.
“She is only six, most wait until they bleed first,” replied Sheba, the Prophet looking at her and frowning, both knowing that he was little more than a brutal, licentious pedophile who delighted in the rape of little girls and boys. Rising from the bed and closing his robe, he left her tent, adjusting his filthy silk turban.
Later, when others at the oasis were asleep or passed out from drunkenness, Muhammad, oaf Abu, and Hamal the Bedouin sat by a small fire, discussing plans for the recruitment of new followers. As the fire died down the Holy Prophet rose and walked into the shadows, releasing foul, pungent gas from his posterior while Abu and the Bedouin continued speaking.
“When will we be leaving for Medina?” asked Hamal, looking forward to visiting a comely harlot he had met there.
“Very soon, but you will not leave with us,” answered Abu, just as Muhammad leapt upon the hapless Bedouin with an oiled garrote. Pulling it tight around his throat with all his strength, he gritted his teeth and strangled the infidel to death, crushing his windpipe.
“That is what one gets for insulting Allah’s messenger,” declared the wicked Muhammad with a smile, allowing the corpse to drop to the ground. He pulled the garrote from Hamal’s throat and pocketed it in his filthy silk robe. Looking to Abu, he said, “Get over here and help me with the body oaf.”
Abu rose, the Prophet and his henchman carrying the remains of Hamal into the desert.
On the next day, Abu’s young nephew Abdullah appeared from his mother’s hovel at the border of the oasis. The adolescent appeared more of a man than a boy, his face having a short beard. Troubled, he asked his uncle as to why he had left his aunt Umm to die of grief, and why he had permitted the Holy Prophet to know him and his little cousin Ayesha. Not aware of Abu’s incestuous relationship with his daughter, he awaited the answer.
“My daughter Ayesha is his child bride, given unto him by Gabriel on high; alas, Muhammad is also a pederast, it was the will of Allah for him to know you,” a shrugging Abu replied, revolted at the thought of pederasty, not looking his nephew in the eyes.
“The will of Allah? Then Allah is an evil, insidious demon possessed of lust and caprice!” exclaimed Abdullah. “Your Prophet is a depraved sodomite sent from the depths of hell: grasping my crotch, he raped me after having a seizure, holding me down and declaring it was the will of Pig Allah!”
“I don’t know what to say, my nephew,” replied Abu, looking to the ground, knowing that Muhammad had truly hurt a beloved member of his family by raping him.
“I do,” said an angry Abdullah, tears welling in his eyes as he glared at his uncle, “I say be gone forever from our oasis, you, your demonic Prophet, your vile brethren, and never call me your nephew again!” Wiping away tears, he turned and trudged off, a saddened Abu watching as the young man disappeared into a date grove.
A fortnight passed; the Muslims returning to the nearly deserted city of Medina. The faithful inhabitants celebrated at the sight of Prophet Muhammad, joyously greeting his arrival with a spectacle of drunken revelry and lasciviousness. To the Prophet’s pleasure, he found the brothel was still open, the madam thankful to Allah that the brave warriors of Islam had returned unto their midst.
After indulging in the favors of comely, dark-eyed harlots for several days, Muhammad, his wives Ayesha and Sheba, together with his entourage of slavewomen and little Jewish boys, moved into the merchant Sabri’s house. Oaf Abu and wife Fahimah accompanied them, as the residence had more than enough room.
The body of Sabri, murdered by the Holy Prophet months earlier, lay rotting on the floor, a tearful Fahimah looking to the desiccated remains of her loving husband.
“Lamentations over infidels is forbidden, it is the will of Allah that such die for resisting him,” declared Muhammad, picking fat fleas from his beard and crushing them between his fingernails. Ordering other followers to remove the remains, they dragged the body from the house and dumped it in the street for all to see. Looking down, the Prophet smirked and kicked Sabri’s mummified severed finger through the open door.
“You soulless brigand, I am an infidel, why don’t you just kill me and put me out of my misery?” asked a defiant Fahimah, tears of grief wetting her cheeks.
The Holy Prophet raised an arm to smite her, Abu stepping between them. “You will not strike my good wife Fahimah, nor will you touch her in any other fashion from this point forward; there is much wisdom in her utterances regarding the likes of you,” warned Abu, staring at the Prophet with anger in his eyes.
Muhammad lowered his arm. Hiding his fear, he frowned at his muscular henchman. “Of course oaf,” he muttered, quickly turning and leaving the house. “Bastard,” he spat in defeat, heading to the brothel for the favors of harlots, strong wine, and hashish.
“Thank you husband, for what you have said and done for me,” said Fahimah.
“Don’t thank me, thank your gods,” replied a confused Abu, sweat on his brow, looking to the doorway that the madman Muhammad had passed through.
Charged by the words of the Holy Prophet, vanguards of devoted followers moved across the land surrounding Medina, converting scores to Islam in the name of Allah the Pig. Along the way, the warriors helped themselves to women, children and glittering plunder: slaughtering, torturing, raping and robbing as caravans, villages, towns and cities fell before them. Returning to Medina with fresh converts, the warriors rested, joining with their fellow Muslims in idleness, debauchery, licentious revelry and drunkenness.
Fearful of being exposed as the coward he was, Muhammad was determined to prove he was an able leader, chosen by Allah the moon god. Together with trusted group of followers, he, Abu and a band of vicious cutthroats entered a peaceful village near Medina in the middle of the night. A guard, subdued and beaten by a pair of the Prophet’s followers, asked Muhammad, “We have done you no harm stranger, what do you want here?”
“We want everything,” answered a smiling Muhammad. Pulling out his garrote, he strangled the defeated infidel to death, fulfilling the will of Allah.
Allah the Pig smiled upon the devoted followers; over time the Muslim army was strengthened to near invincibility, their numbers in Medina now amounting to over 300 score.

Surah 123: The Demon

Bismillah:

Growing restless at Medina, an insane Muhammad was determined exact his revenge upon the inhabitants of Mecca, so he could capture the city in the name of Islam and defile the Kaaba in the name of Pig Allah.
At his urging, followers created more weapons, seizing metal wherever it could be found, using captured infidels as slave laborers for the hot forges. Under the watchful eyes of brutal Muslim slavedrivers, cooking pots, utensils, plowshares and pruning hooks were heated and beaten into deadly scimitars for the warriors of Islam; those who refused to serve the warriors slaughtered, their bodies thrown into the fires of the forges.
The once peaceful Medina had been transformed from a prosperous trading center into a filthy lair of vicious freebooters, brigands, and evil cutthroats, hungry for plunder and blood. Allied with the warriors of Islam were assorted perverts: depraved pedophiles, brutal rapists, and lascivious sodomites: comprising a revolting den of amoral, lustful, lecherous monsters who gleefully destroyed entire towns, taking the virtue of women, girls and boys at will.
The Muslims were led by the corrupting force, Prophet Muhammad, chief pervert of Islam, otherwise known amongst his fellows as Abu al-Qasim Muhammad Ibn Abd Allah Ibn Abd al-Muttalib Ibn Hashim.
The Holy Prophet, knowing from his vivid, epileptic dreams that his actions were the will of Allah, returned to his licentious pederasty, knowing freshly captured Jewish boys during bouts of drunkenness. At other times, strong wine having caused vile fits of vomiting in the street just outside Sabri’s house, he amused himself by eating strong hashish, molesting his young wife Ayesha afterward.
Seeing the depravity of Muhammad, the Nubian siren Sheba felt shunned, left out of the wanton debauchery, watching in horror at his perverted, drunken orgies with little boys from a dark corner of Sabri’s house.
“You’re hurting me Prophet, I bleed!” cried a very young Jewish boy of eight as Muhammad knew him, his ample girth having ruptured the boy’s posterior.
“Vile Jew, how dare you question the will of Allah’s messenger,” retorted an angry Muhammad, slitting the boy’s throat to the spine with a sharp knife. He threw the body to the tiled floor of Sabri’s house; his filthy erection covered in blood and feces as it slipped from the murdered victim.
Shedding painful tears while viewing the murderous sodomy, the Nubian siren also witnessed the Prophet’s brutal fits of pedophilia with young Ayesha.
“You ingratious bitch, how dare you cry out as I indulge in your comely favors, my knowing you is the will of Allah!” grunted Muhammad, slapping the child, finally achieving orgasm within her.
“Yes Holy Prophet,” replied Ayesha in tears, having turned seven that day, wiping blood from her lower lip.
“These terrible actions of Muhammad are not the work of Allah, nor any other god; they are truly the evil ministrations of a vile and sadistic demon,” Sheba said to herself, withdrawing into the shadows.
Troubled, she approached Fahimah one evening and told her of her woes.
“You made your bed painted harlot, lay in it,” the widow retorted while cooking a pot of viper stew, not wanting to arouse the Prophet’s maniacal wrath. The house had grown filthy on the orders of Muhammad, it revealed to him in a dream that cleaning it was not the will of Allah.
“But what of you, how did you come to be here in this hell on Earth?” asked Sheba, surrounded by iridescent flies, filth and the butchered bones of vermin, not knowing how the upright woman had become part of a band of depraved brigands led by a demented, demon possessed maniac.
“Your disgusting Prophet murdered my good husband Sabri in this very house in which you stand. He took our money, raped me and my maidservant, and then gave me to his brother in law Abu as his wife.”
“As for Muhammad being my Prophet, I cannot be sure from what I have seen him do; how can you live such a life among such after what you’ve been through?”
“I am but a prisoner of uncivilized brutes: I cannot live such a life, except at the whim of my gods, perhaps one day I will simply die and be released from this dreadful fate,” said the widow, just as Abu walked in.
“I need food and wine,” the oaf announced, the harlot withdrawing from the room.
“Yes,” replied Fahimah, presenting him with a bottle and a warm earthenware bowl filled with snake flesh cooked in seasoned jackal broth.
“Viper stew – I can’t stand this shit!” exclaimed Abu, revolted at the boiled head of a snake floating in the bowl, an eye staring at him, surrounded by sliced onions, bits of scorpion shells, and withered parsnips.
“We have no more jackal, vulture, or rat meat, Muhammad has eaten it all, even to their rotting carcasses and the nauseating entrails; that and other vermin is all your Prophet will allow us to consume. I respectfully confess that I long for a fine pork roast to dine upon,” said his wife.
“That’s the truth; what did the Nubian harlot want here?” asked a resigned Abu, pulling the snakehead out and gnawing at it, pulling an occasional scale from his mouth with a thumb. Shuddering for a moment, he spat a tough, chewy eyeball to the floor.
“She came to complain to me about Muhammad shunning her comely favors, while knowing little Jewish boys,” answered Fahimah. “She also said the Prophet is knowing your young daughter too much; I have seen it, from the way she walks, she has grown very sore from his attentions.”
“Yes, he should come unto Ayesha only after a week or so has passed, as do I; for it is Allah’s will for me to know my daughter. Regarding the little boys, I fear that the Prophet’s wanton pederasty is both strange and revolting to me,” Abu replied, throwing the skull to the floor in utter disgust and drinking jackal broth from the bowl.
“Revolting; a filthy bitch in the throes of heat is not as vile as that depraved sodomite: he is an evil, lecherous, perverted freak who lusts after the flesh of men,” his wife declared, not telling of her revulsion to her incestuous husband knowing his daughter in their bed on many occasions.
“They’re not men, they are infidels, according to the Prophet, such does not matter in the eyes of Allah.”
“Flesh protrudes from their loins; as does it from the vile crotch of Muhammad. My gods frown upon such perverse acts, condemning those who engage in those practices to eternal damnation.”
“They do not yet spit their seed on the ground, as Onan did, they are nothing,” replied Abu, taking a gulp from the bottle.
“That has nothing to do with what I am telling you husband,” said the wise Fahimah, “Your Prophet knows little boys; it is wrong in the eyes of my gods: he is little more than a queer.”
Oaf Abu stared at her for a moment, knowing in his heart that she was correct. He returned to his meal, peeling snakeskin from a chunk of viper, the fat carcasses of boiled maggots infesting the meat. Looking at the maggots, a frowning Abu spat, “What the hell, I’m hungry,” stuffing the half-rotted flesh in his mouth and chasing it with wine.
After several weeks of preparation, the rebuilt Muslim army was ready to attack Mecca. Hordes of bloodthirsty Saracens were armed with sharp scimitars of brass and iron, their bellies filled and bodies nourished with the bitter flesh of vermin.
A drunken Muhammad, standing on the upper porch of Sabri’s house, gave a sermon, telling a crowd of devoted followers that pain, death and destruction would be visited upon the inhabitants of Mecca for resisting the will of Allah and his Prophet.
As Muhammad smiled in delight, the crowd shouted to the heavens in unison: “There is no god but Allah the Pig, and Muhammad is his Prophet!”
“He said that the last time,” Ayesha observed, Fahimah stifling a laugh while they stood only a few cubits from the vile Prophet.
Looking to her, Abu sighed. “Yes he did, but take care in what you utter child, for Muhammad has a great, malevolent power not of this world.”
“That’s because he is the Devil incarnate; may the gods of my fathers destroy that queer murderous bastard and all he has wrought,” retorted Fahimah.
“Do you beg for him to strike you down?” asked a frowning Abu.
“Perhaps I do, for death is better than this existence,” she answered bitterly, looking to the demon in man’s guise calling itself Muhammad, while feeling the life of an innocent unborn in her womb.

Surah 124: The Defiled

Bismillah:

Another fortnight passed, during which Muhammad and his devoted followers delighted in the vilest of debaucheries; the drunken Prophet leaving the bodies of several murdered Jewish boys in a dark annex of Sabri’s house; their posteriors ruptured and throats slit by him. The Nubian siren Sheba watched from the shadows, shedding tears for the slaughtered children.
Oaf Abu Bakr, fulfilling the will of Allah, again came unto his daughter Ayesha, she having recovered from the Prophet’s advances; a lecherous Muhammad occupied with knowing the remaining Jewish boys.
“Why is it that you know me, my father?” asked a satisfied Ayesha, sitting up on the bed after Abu had withdrawn from her and closed his robe.
“It is the will of Allah,” answered the oaf, looking upon her nude body. “Cover yourself from my sight child, have you no decency?”
“Do you not find me comely, or is the stiffness of your nether member only for my stepmother Fahimah?” asked Ayesha coyly, smiling and reclining before him.
“I do find you most comely, that is why you must cover yourself,” Abu ordered, finding his incestuous lust for her troubling.
“Yes my father,” replied an obedient Ayesha, pulling a sheet over herself.
Crossing the desert, the Muslim army left Medina and returned to the oasis to refresh themselves and rest among the palms, the inhabitants there vexed at the presence of the Holy Prophet. A defiant Mecca stood to the south, Muhammad knowing that with the help of Allah, the army of Islam would prevail over the infidels.
Abu learned that his nephew Abdullah had committed suicide by climbing a tall date palm and hurling himself from it, his broken body buried in the desert by his grieving father and brothers.
Troubled, he approached Muhammad and told him of his grief.
“Waste not time mourning over him oaf, it was the will of Allah,” said Muhammad blithely with a wave of a hand, drunk in his tent, dining on a bowl of boiled dung beetles smothered in thick vulture gravy.
The Nubian harlot Sheba looked to Abu in silence, sympathy in her eyes, recalling the Prophet’s licentious pederasty, having watched from in the shadows as he murdered those who dared to cry out in pain at his advances.
“That, or he couldn’t live with the idea of you having known him,” replied a frowning Abu, staring at the floor of the tent, sadness on his countenance.
“My knowing of him was a gift: how dare you question the will of Allah or his messenger!” exclaimed Muhammad, finishing his meal of dung beetles, his filthy fingers covered in cold vulture gravy.
“I don’t question the will of Allah, what I do question is the unrelenting stiffness of your nether member and your licentious pederasty, knowing little boys in his sight,” retorted Abu. “Are there not captive women in our camp that could satisfy your carnal urges?”
“Perhaps there are, but none are as tight as the lovely orifice of a little Jewish boy,” answered a smiling Muhammad.
“You are a hypocrite; you have repeatedly denied others of your inclination the ability to know them, stating that such actions are a sin in the eyes of Pig Allah,” said Abu boldly, revolted at the thought of pederasty.
Harlot Sheba silently wiped tears from her cheeks, she mourning for the young victims of Muhammad’s insatiable homosexual depravity.
“Hypocrite, no, for Allah’s revelations do not apply to me, nor do they to you,” answered the Prophet with another smile, wiping hands on his filthy silk robe. “You, oaf, along with myself, have sanction from Allah to do whatever we wish.”
“We do?”
“Yes,” answered Muhammad, pausing to squeeze foul matter from a swollen boil on his forehead, “It runs the gamut, from taking women in our beds, or lovely boys in our tents, or even to the knowing of pretty animals, indulging in their comely favors as it suits us.”
“The favors of beasts!” exclaimed Abu, “I always thought you were a twisted bastard, but the likes of us knowing animals?”
“A camel can be most attractive if one drinks enough wine: just look at their pretty eyes,” replied Muhammad, raising a bottle and drinking deeply from it.
“Such is bestiality!” exclaimed Abu in utter revulsion.
“No oaf, it is love; for Allah is love, and his Prophet is love: I spread Allah’s love by knowing those I desire; indulging in the favors of comely women, lovely boys, and pretty animals.”
“You are a depraved raper of young boys and a perverted molester of lowly beasts!” retorted Abu, looking the drunken Prophet in the eyes.
“Be that as it may, it is the will of Allah,” answered an uncaring Muhammad, growing visibly aroused at the thought of knowing pretty animals, a small, malnourished female camel with light brown eyes just outside his tent crossing his utterly deranged mind.
Pulling open his filthy robe, he reached for his erection and began masturbating, the harlot turning away in disgust.
“Have you no respect or decency, even in the eyes of your wives and fellows?” asked Abu, turning his head and covering his eyes.
“You needn’t look unless you desire to pleasure Allah’s Prophet, such is the will of him should you find my organ enticing.”
“I’m not queer, your offer is revolting!” exclaimed Abu, turning and heading from him.
“Very well, be gone with you, ugh, oaf,” grunted Muhammad, reaching orgasm as he finished the sentence, spitting his seed upon the ground and his filthy silk robe.
Leaving the tent, Abu chanced upon another of the Prophet’s followers, a dull-witted, nearly toothless man with a missing eye, known by his fellows as Sadi.
“Duh, where is the Prophet?” asked a staggering Sadi, he very drunk.
“He’s playing with himself in his tent over a camel, do you want to watch?” spat a disgusted Abu, pushing him out of the way.
Sadi tumbled to the ground, watching Abu trudge off into the darkness.
Returning to his tent, a troubled Abu told Fahimah of his terse words with Muhammad, and that the Holy Prophet was not only a pederaster, but also a vile practitioner of bestiality, knowing pretty animals in the sight of Allah.
“I told you he was little more than a depraved devil in man’s guise,” she replied, “Only such could lust for the loins of a beast. Muhammad is an evil madman desiring death for all who oppose him; you, husband, will come to blows with him, if not only to save your very life.”
“Do we have any food?” asked Abu, not commenting on her wise words.
“Yes, with the help of your daughter and the Nubian harlot, I caught and baked several rats for us this afternoon.”
“It beats viper flesh, bring some to me wife, with a full bottle,” ordered a frowning Abu, hoping that drunkenness would ease his contemptuous feelings for the Holy Prophet.

Surah 125: Mecca

Bismillah:

Having renewed their strength at the oasis, the vengeful warriors of Islam marched into the desert, heading south toward Mecca, killing any in their path that dared to resist. Along the way they recruited more converts: augmenting by several score a revolting cadre of amoral pirates, vicious brigands, twisted perverts, depraved pedophiles and lascivious sodomites, all hungry for glittering plunder, rivers of blood, and helpless victims.
Muhammad and his entourage followed, a string of captive Jewish boys in chains, having been thoroughly sodomised, trudged along with them, some forced to carry the Holy Prophet in an ornate litter. Fahimah and the Nubian siren Sheba, together with Muhammad’s child wife Ayesha, were carried in another litter behind the Prophet.
“What are we to do about that insane monster in man’s guise?” asked Sheba, her voice low in fear of the Prophet.
“Nothing harlot, we are but women, and haven’t the strength to subdue such as him,” whispered Fahimah, her belly showing she was with child, fearful the Jewish boys carrying them might hear and tell the evil Prophet of their words.
Oaf Abu, dismissing his utter disgust at the Holy Prophet’s revolting pederasty and bestiality for the moment, conversed with Muhammad in their litter as they were carried across the desolate waste.
“You told the followers that great Allah dwells in heaven; who else dwells there with him in his a


Yes - 5/2/2006

That s it bro, answer to hate by hate like a real american citizen


What - 5/2/2006

[COMMENT REMOVED FOR VIOLATION OF HNN STANDARDS]


dorhuya - 4/27/2006

<a href = 'http://www.apples.com'>dorhuya</a> http://www.apples.com ; Thanks!


Mark Linham - 4/27/2006

P.S. :

As for the Webster's definition (I don't have a copy handy), I did state in my earlier post that an expecting woman or couple who DOES WANT to have a child will sometimes refer to their unborn offspring as their "child".

Dictionaries state definitions of words according the meanings they have acquired in their history of use, and their present accepted usages, but it is beyond a dictionary's scope and functional purpose to address all of the myriad, and sometimes complex, contexts in which they, the associated concepts, and their referents apply.


Mark Linham - 4/27/2006

I have EVERY right to "impose" my own value judgements where MY OWN BODY is concerned.. and I am THE ONLY ONE who has that right.

If you want to assert a moral imperative that does not contradict previously established, and valid, human rights, - and there are plenty of such areas of concern that require your attention - then we can talk.. and we probably will find ourselves in agreement. But if you propose to violate - or advocate the violation of - a right as basic as that of a person to her/his own body, then I am not with you.

Yes, by the way, I am "pro-choice" (and pro-life - or pro-right-to-life - and in a sense much more comprehensive than is usually meant lately when that term is used).


BMC - 4/26/2006

I however, cold barely contain myself after reading this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4941816.stm

Much too funny.


May - 4/26/2006

the only lies circulating are those that argue that the west is free ,free to critisize muslims perphaps but not the holocaust!!?


S Misra - 4/23/2006

Now that the misleading defenders of Islam are gone, the gentle farmers go back to the land and farm once again, at peace...but never forget that the Koran is violent:

"Mohammed said in his Hadith: "The Hour [Day of Resurrection] will not arrive until you fight the Jews, [until a Jew will hide behind a rock or tree] and the rock and the tree will say: 'Oh Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'" [PA TV July 13, 2003]

And the Christian hating of the Muslims.
And the homophobia and lethal hatred of homosexuals of the Muslims.
And the hate of all those who don't believe what they believe.
And the quickness to resort to violence.

Don't forget, gentle farmers, and keep your minds sharp. Peace is the only way and any religion that justifies war is false.

Goodnight...


l;' - 4/18/2006

kbkbmlngl;hghh;htutjha;klj


Gary - 4/17/2006

Quote: "A fetus is NOT a child. The definition of "child" in common parlance is a person who has been born."

Really? My Webster's Collegiate Dictionary states: "Child: an unborn or recently born person....."

Quote: "If an alledged "right to life" entitles anyone, or anything, to grow on, or in, a person's body, then if I need an organ transplant, you should be drafted to provide me with the needed organ. "No", Did I hear you say? Very well, then. Then it is YOU who had better get your information straight on just what the term "right to life" actually means!"

Sorry, mister, I never used the term "right-to-life". This term could be used to imply most anything. So then, do you use the liberal term "Pro-choice"? So then, if I need an organ transplant, do I get to choose you to be the donor of the needed organ? "No", did I hear you say?

Anyway, as far as your example above goes, it has absolutely nothing to do with preserving the life of an established "fetus".

Quote: "Another person's life - which means her body - is not yours to control or impose your value judgements upon."

This is my point. What right do you or anyone else have to "impose" your "value judgment" by terminating the life of the unborn?




Mark Linham - 4/16/2006

A fetus is NOT a child. The definition of "child" in common parlance is a person who has been born. An extended case of this is a couple, or woman, who is expecting, and wants to have the baby. In that last case, she/they may also refer to their "child" to be.

Anyway, all this is quite beside the point, mister. Another person's life - which means her body - is not yours to control or impose your value judgements upon.

In any case where an alledged right - such as one as dubious as what some would attribute to embryos - conflicts with the previously and well established rights of a real, and unquestionably fully-developed human being, it shouldn't take a genius to know what the real rights are in the case in question.

If an alledged "right to life" entitles anyone, or anything, to grow on, or in, a person's body, then if I need an organ transplant, you should be drafted to provide me with the needed organ. "No", Did I hear you say? Very well, then. Then it is YOU who had better get your information straight on just what the term "right to life" actually means!


Gary - 4/13/2006

Quote: "Besides, if you kill someone, who does it hurt? The victim? Of course not - the victim doesn't give a shit, as long as you do it quick. It only hurts those the victim leaves behind, in this case the mother and to some extent the father.
And whose choice is it to have that abortion?

I simply can't stand anti-abortion people. It's a million times more evil to give birth to a kid you didn't really want, than to kill it while it doesn't know what life is yet."

This is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. You better get your facts strait dude. So you think the "fetus" doesn't feel anything? WRONG. Watch a video of the procedure sometime, if you think you can tolerate it. FACT: A fetus has dreams, feels pain and has a heart beat.

I am an "anti-abortion" person, so I'm glad you can't stand me. For you, I just feel sorry, and for the child, I feel even more sorry!


Slater - 4/13/2006

Exactly. It's not a person, it doesn't feel anything, and it sure won't know it's dying.

Besides, if you kill someone, who does it hurt? The victim? Of course not - the victim doesn't give a shit, as long as you do it quick. It only hurts those the victim leaves behind, in this case the mother and to some extent the father.
And whose choice is it to have that abortion?

I simply can't stand anti-abortion people. It's a million times more evil to give birth to a kid you didn't really want, than to kill it while it doesn't know what life is yet.


Tammy - 4/10/2006

I would love a t-shirt with Danish writing on it (something original), and not "I love Denmark."

Do you know where I could get a t-shirt that has the Copenhagen neighborhood written on it?


Gary - 4/10/2006

Quote: "Rational solutions that DECREASE the birth rate everywhere are desperately needed. A woman's right to have an abortion must be fought for and secured, as well."

"Rational"? Of course the child has nothing to say about this because "it" hasn't exited the womb yet. After all, "it's" only a "fetus".


Mark Linham - 4/10/2006

Let me add the following in regard to point three in the above post:

Whatever the tax revenue base is is what the total commonwealth, or government, spending should be limited to.

The deficit "financing" must stop!

The maintenance of the financial and economic well-being of a society, either on a small scale or a large one, is largely a capital, or infrastructural, one. When there are massive deficits and debt, badly needed resources are diverted away from, or dangerously delayed in their application to, the needed maintenance of capital assets (the "seed stock", if you will, to use the farmer's term for it).
Machinery failures resulting from insufficient revenues effectively kill production, thus tending to increase deficits, which in turn result in even more capital asset failures, all in a viciously increasing and devouering spiral.

Rational calculation must be possible for business and production to continue, let alone increase. Such calculation isn't possible under any regime where public deficits and debts are in principle unlimited, and subject to the whims of government officials, or other unaccountable corporate heads.

Rational and productive business planning is also harmed by the attempts currently being made to directly abrogate private property rights.
It, ironically, is corporatist capitalism (is there any other kind?) at least in the U.S., that has attacked its own ostensible foundations through attempts by various businessmen to nullify the land deeds of others. Our Supreme Court actually approved this miscarriage of justice. And this is yet another thing which must be fixed - and pronto! - if we're to avoid being put in the poorhouse.


Mark Linham - 4/10/2006

That's catastrophic! We have such an AWFUL Congress right now. And the so-called "President"? Well there you have it.

We're being pushed over a cliff and we had better, somehow, stop those pushers!

IMPEACH! (almost all of them!)


Mark Linham - 4/10/2006

Really! Maybe so!

I would propose two (well, possibly, three) things to help the whole world economically, including the United States, and including any other country suffering the ravages of poverty or being threatened with such:

1) Completely reject any and all attempts on the part of operatives from the mainline organized, monotheistic religions (all of them) to limit access to birth control.
Rational solutions that DECREASE the birth rate everywhere are desperately needed. A woman's right to have an abortion must be fought for and secured, as well.
Complexities aside, economics boils down, essentially, to basic supply and demand: produce MORE goods relative to FEWER people who need those goods and per-capita productivity goes up and the unit price of goods goes down. Voila! The end of poverty!

2) On the goods production side, it is he work of man's mind which makes our survival, let alone quality survival possible. So, we must massively incentivize new invention. This would generally take the form of a major busness education campaign for the world's most creative people (the inventors of new technologies and gadgets). These people are often brilliant at creative and intellectual endeavors, but not very good at handling the day-to-day matters of their business interests very well. They would be thoroughly informed of, and fascilitated in ways to secure their patent rights to ensure their lucrative compensation in the event(s) of their successes. And under the present circumstances it is especially criical to strongly focus on protecting the rights of, and all incentives for, inventors in the alternative energy development sector.

and, possibly (indeed probably):

3) Keep taxes - especially income, or earnings taxes - as low as possible, but make sure they are progressive! That is: if a person has a low (impoverished) income they don't pay anything. If they have a medium income they pay a small amount, say 10% to 15%. And the top income brackets pay an even greater percentage, say 15% up to 30%.

Also: eliminate most of the tax loopholes also; most of which have the effect only of enabling the very wealthy to avoid paying their fair share, thus shifting that burden onto the shoulders of those less able to cope with it.


Alexis de Torquemada - 4/6/2006

Not to mention the numerous appearances of the Jesus character in South Park.


Kambiz T. - 4/4/2006

Of course the US has more weaponry. So does our policeman on the street corner. He has got more weaponry than all the neighborhood combined. Would you wish to live in a crime infested gang and mob controlled neighborhood? Whenever you move to Gaza Strip, then I will agree with you that US should be disarmed.

US has spent far more money on peaceful development, than the Muslim nations despite their windfall oil have. You don't like what the US is doing, then go and vote for a different representative. In Muslim countries (except for Iraq, and maybe Indonesia), there are NO ELECTIONS.


Kambiz T. - 4/4/2006

Misra - Iranian democracy was lost in 1950 due to rampant nationalism by this prime minister who wanted to get a few pennies more out of oil, and was willing to gamble democracy for that. The pro-Shah coup makers were all Iranians, and they had to only spend $300,000 to make it happen.

The Ayatollah who overthrew the Shah has killed 10 times as many Iranian in his torture chambers. Not to mention 100 times as many Iranians were killed by Khomeini in the swamps of Iraq.

Islam has destroyed Iran and has imposed one of the harshest misogynistic dictatorships on the Iranian people in the past 30 years.

Islam has to be defeated in Iran - that is the only way that Iranians can become free.


xc - 4/4/2006

Buy US goods - campaign; coming right up... or maybe a reversed Marshall help from europe!?


S Misra - 4/4/2006

Well, we're in deeper doo doo than I thought, and come to think of it, the Congress just raised the debt ceiling to 9.something trillion.


THINKER - 4/3/2006

That means the west is after
al-qaeda & company only and not other varieties of terrorists.Please don't pretend,whole world knows where these terrorists are born.Pakistan is a fertile breeding ground for terrorists.Time and again it it proved Pakistan is a terror factory.Pakistan provides them all sorts of infrastructure & logistical support needed.Although their President talks in a moderate tone, people around him are all one way or the other linked to fundamentalist outfits.Atleast, they extend moral support to terrorists, as the whole country is a brain-washed lot.As I've already mentioned it is Islamic mentality, which has no borders,their loyalty is only to their religion.Here in India,they indulge in protests and arson at the drop of a hat.Even people in remotest towns of India were up-against Danish cartoons.But I doubt,wheather even 5% of protesting crowds knew where Denmark is(,or for that matter,what Denmark is).See, this is the state of affairs in muslim communities.Education,Prosperity,knowledge,Democratic ways are not their priority.Only Jehad.
But coming back to Pakistan,lots of terrorist training camps are based along Indian borders in Pak.Nobody is talking abt dismantling them.
Because they want to please this lesser evil, whose tenure is uncertain and so are his statements.
If anybody is serious about crushing Islamic terrorism,they should first reprimand Pakistan for what it is indulging in.


Gary - 4/2/2006

Right on Bro!!!


Mark Linham - 4/1/2006

Damn right!


Mark Linham - 4/1/2006

Horror of horrors: The U.S. National Debt currently exceeds 7 (seven) trillion (not one trillion) dollars, thanks largely to the current, illegitimate, "President", and his party that also controls the Congress.

This is probably worse than any of us think, including pessimists such as myself. With regard to any theoretically possible recovery for us, pray for a miracle. Because we're damn-near doomed economically.

A major revolution to protect the integrity of our elections (from Diebold-type ballot fraud, which happened no telling how many times, but at least did happen in both 2000 and 2004), a political revolution (in the radical direction of more liberalism), and culturally (in the radical direction of more rationality), as well as economically (especially in the form of the vigorous pursuit of alternative sources of motive power (solar, wind, etc) for our commonwealth, and intellectual property law reform designed to keep control over patents in the hands of the workers - that is to say: inventors, and not corporate CEO's - which would have the effect of incentivizing the actual production of real new wealth), would save us, if only we would collectively and individually do those things.


Mark Linham - 4/1/2006

If, in the long run, Islam is defeated by the West, Kashmir will also win.

What is important is that we are now becoming more aware of an issue of great importance, not that we are late-comers to it. Only the long-range victory of the West's values matter, and will ensure true political freedom for all the World's peoples.

As for the Pakistani dictator, it is largely a matter of the lesser of evils(?). I hope I'm not wrong about this. I am truly sorry if I am. It would appear that the main - and largely, *only* - Pakistani opposition to the current President of Pakistan are even more fanatical, and ultimately more oppressive, in their uniquely Islamic way, than he is. As bad as the Pakistani President might be, he - relatively speaking - is a moderating force in Pakistan.


Mark Linham - 4/1/2006

Need a gunner on your ship, Ragnar?


S Misra - 3/31/2006

Just an example. Where did the present day Iraq situation get born? In modern times, it begins with the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Iran in the mid 1950s. That led to the Shah of Iran, who the U.S. supported even though he was a despot. When he mistreated and tortured enough people, with knowledge of the CIA, who helped train his secret police, he was overthrown by the Ayatollah. I still remember how one of the leaders of Iran gave a press conference and showed his scarred feet to reporters, where he had been beaten by the Shah. Once the Ayatollah came into power, they tried to get what they thought was theirs from Iraq, and invaded, and the U.S. supported Saddam Hussein. There's a photo of Rumsfeld shaking hands with him smiling. The U.S. supported him through years of bloody war, and Hussein used poison gas on the Iranians. Then, we overthrew Saddam. Lesson: When you don't fight for liberty, every single thing you do is temporary and will only result in worse things later.

Same with the Taliban, our buddies when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, and our buddies Pakistan, who murdered 1-3 million Bengalis in the early 1970s. Kissinger didn't care one bit what American ambassadors in Bengal were saying that there was a massacre going on. Now, both are pietri dishes in which fanatics grow like prolific viruses. Again, the U.S. tried to take the quick, short way, "geopolitics." I think it would have been a lot better to be a force for democracy, not "geopolitics," which is another way of saying, let's see who we can screw now to get our way right now, screw the future.

Now, we waste blood and treasure in those Muslim countries. And for all the talk of Islam, not one Muslim country sent troops to take care of any Muslim on Muslim violence, just like today, they stand by throwing pebbles at a meteorite in the sandy wastes of Arabia while Muslims kill Muslims in Sudan, in Pakistan, in Iraq, and elsewhere. Again, I believe there is no Islam, just Sunni and Shiite cults of violence.


Gary - 3/31/2006

Quote: "Our president cannot seem to stop finding wars to fight"

How right you are. When are we finally going to elect a president who has a policy of keeping our nose out of other people’s business! I am sometimes accused of favoring isolationism, but there needs to be a balance here. Whether it be our actual foreign policy or our perceived foreign policy, we have managed to become the most hated nation in the world. There is a very fine line between being the “protector of the weak” and the “bully on the block”.


Ragnar Danneskjold - 3/31/2006

God bless you, Judith, for getting this ball rolling. What began as a simple idea has become a movement, and you deserve a great deal of credit for that.

Buy Danish!! Sammenhold!!
- Ragnar Danneskjold
The Sammenhold Blog
http://www.sammenhold.com


S Misra - 3/31/2006

I envy Denmark. Our president cannot seem to stop finding wars to fight. The United States has more weaponry than all other nations of the world combined. It is the largest seller of guns. All this costs in the nine figures, hundreds of billions. Defense is good; perpetual war footing is not good. At some point, the owners of the weapons want to try them out. The U.S. debt is huge, nearly one trillion dollars. Imagine just a portion of that money being spent for peaceful development. It would rob extremists of one of their sources of hate, poverty. You all are out of debt, but I'll still buy Danish.


sdfhg - 3/31/2006

National treasury of denmark just announced that denmark has paid all debts, and now is free of debt first time since WW2... I guess you can stop worrying about danish economy now... but please stop by, all you good people and supporters of free speech, and we'll buy you a beer down at the local pub!


European - 3/30/2006

Too small an army, to big a history of loosing battles to big brother germany - made danes kind of pacifists, but not afraid to go with others in a rightious cause!
We would have liked more principal support, on the warmongering act of embassyburning - but this is a tricky issue... so we are kind of caught in the middle... but history will surely show, that intolerant islamism shall not be tolerated - at any price: and denmark showed what it means to endure pressure from a wave of injustice!
I think the danish PM showed the world a message, even though he failed in meeting the agressive diplomats of the ME, he set a standard of not caving in, but asking for dialogue, in the face of totalitarian powerplay!


Jay Stuart Allen - 3/30/2006

I just took a Scandinavian trip and am proud to have taken SAS and stayed at SAS Radisson hotel in Copenhagen. I also bought some souvenirs. I will try to buy Danish products when I can but I havn't heard that the Danish economy is supposed to be impacted that bad. I was talking to a couple of finns who were wondering why nobody in the U.S. says anything about the burning of Danish and Norwegian embassys, which they viewed as an act of war. They couldn't believe it. My question is if Denmark has a legitimate right to take military action and if so why don't they? But Denmark hasn't been involved in war for a long time, except for the WWII resistance, so I doubt this would happen. I would love to hear some comments.


Jay Stuart Allen - 3/30/2006

I just took a Scandinavian trip and am proud to have taken SAS and stayed at SAS Radisson hotel in Copenhagen. I also bought some souvenirs. I will try to buy Danish products when I can but I havn't heard that the Danish economy is supposed to be impacted that bad. I was talking to a couple of finns who were wondering why nobody in the U.S. says anything about the burning of Danish and Norwegian embassys, which they viewed as an act of war. They couldn't believe it. My question is if Denmark has a legitimate right to take military action and if so why don't they? But Denmark hasn't been involved in war for a long time, except for the WWII resistance, so I doubt this would happen. I would love to hear some comments.


THINKER - 3/30/2006

I'm from India,and am really surprised by such anti-muslim and anti-islamic outbursts by all the commentators. But hello, what u were doing all these years?(almost a decade)when islamic terrorists butchered Kashmir and Kashmiris in the name of freedom.(and now spreading their tentacles throughout India). If anything happens in US or Europe than it's terrorism.If it's in India u treat it as insurgency. What hypocricy? U guys, the champions of democracy, support a dictator in Pakistan, even if they send loads of terror germs into Kashmir and talk of settling Kashmir issue. What is Kashmir issue? It's an offshoot of what u all guys r shouting about,"islamic mentality", where religion is above everything.There is no such thing as Kashmiri issue. It's actually Islam and Muslim.
But u ignored this all these years. But when, they started screwing ur asses, u r using all filthy words against them. Stop these doublestandards.


S Misra - 3/28/2006

A Faulty Haiku for the Milk Carton

Oh Hasan Hasan!
He gathers hot angry steam.
Protocols of the Elders of Zion.


Ahsen Ali - 3/28/2006

I'm muslim and I boycott Danish products! why?
you say you treasure freedom of the press and freedom of opinion!!
just tell me where is the opinion when i tell you "f*** your mother" where is the opinion here...can we discuss it? you insult me and if i ask you to respect me...you say i'm free...
So respect us because we are free to buy and sell whatever we want...isn't this freedom?
and to that "silly" enzensberger, don't apologise...we don't need apology from an infidel like you...you have no faith, no religion...so to hell with your apology !!!!


Ahcene Ali - 3/28/2006

salam !
salam means "peace be upon you"
in reply to S Misra, I must tell you that you are mistaken, Islam means submission ..I agree I've read histoy times and times ... Moslims never practised what you said ...we never burnt libraries, destroyed temples, looted, raped or killed innocent people...read your own history and find who practised colonialism in Africa and Latin America...who took africans and exploited them in america? Who caused 2 world wars with their ravages and 20 million victims. France occupied my country and killed 1 million people and half before it was chased? who is killing people in Iraq and Afghanistan? who and who ?
you should be ashamed of yourself and your history


Gary - 3/28/2006

"Hours earlier, hundreds of clerics, students and others chanting "Death to Christians!" marched through the northern Afghan Mazar-i-Sharif to protest the court's decision Sunday to dismiss the case.

"Abdul Rahman must be killed. Islam demands it," said senior Cleric Faiez Mohammed, from the nearby northern city of Kunduz. "The Christian foreigners occupying Afghanistan are attacking our religion."

What does this say about the "peaceful" religion of ISLAM? And, where has our favorite Muslim vanished to?


S Misra - 3/27/2006

Afghan Christian Convert Seeks Asylum
By AMIR SHAH
Associated Press Writer

KABUL, Afghanistan - An Afghan man who faced the death penalty for converting from Islam to Christianity will be freed from prison and has asked for asylum in another country, U.S. and U.N. officials said Monday.
Hundreds of Muslims marched against a court's decision Sunday to dismiss the case against Abdul Rahman after heavy international pressure on Afghan President Hamid Karzai to drop the trial. Several Muslim clerics have threatened to incite Afghans to kill Rahman if he is freed, saying he is clearly guilty of apostasy and deserves to die.

A senior Afghan official closely involved with the case, who asked not to be identified due to the sensitivity of the matter, told The Associated Press that Rahman would be freed shortly, but the details of how it would be done were still being hammered out.

"We do understand that he will be released, that the Afghan government has found that there were substantial evidentiary problems with the case and that the case ... has been referred back to the Ministry of Justice and that he will be released," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said in Washington. "We're pleased by that."

Prison warden Gen. Shahmir Amirpur said Rahman was still in his cell at Kabul's notorious high-security Policharki prison late Monday.

U.N. spokesman Adrian Edwards made clear that Rahman was planning to leave the country once he is free.

"Mr. Rahman has asked for asylum outside Afghanistan," Edwards said. "We expect this will be provided by one of the countries interested in a peaceful solution to this case."

No country has offered asylum to Rahman, said another Afghan official familiar with the case who also declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the issue.

Asked whether the U.S. government was doing anything or has made any offers to secure Rahman's safety after he is released, McCormack said where he goes after he is freed "is going to be up to Mr. Rahman."

He urged Afghans not to resort to violence even if they are unhappy with the resolution of the case.

"This has been a sensitive matter for the Afghan people," McCormack said. "We understand that."

Rahman, 41, was arrested last month after police discovered him with a Bible. He was put on trial last week for converting 16 years ago while he was a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in Pakistan. He had faced the death penalty under Afghanistan's Islamic laws.

The case set off an outcry in the United States and other nations that helped oust the hard-line Taliban regime in late 2001 and provide aid and military support for Karzai. President Bush and others insisted Afghanistan protect personal beliefs.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called Karzai on Thursday to ask for a "favorable resolution" of the case.

Karzai had to balance those concerns with the risk of offending religious sensibilities in Afghanistan.

While officials said the case against Rahman was dropped, prosecutors also said earlier Monday they were still examining whether he was mentally fit to stand trial.

Deputy Attorney General Mohammed Eshak Aloko told The Associated Press that he may be sent overseas for psychological treatment if a medical examination that started Monday concludes that he is insane.

"Three Afghan doctors have worked on him today," Aloko said. "Sometimes he appears normal but at other times he looks very strange. His body twitches all the time."

He did not say when the evaluation would be completed.

"We will consider sending him for treatment outside the country if he needs it," Aloko said.

Foreign Minister Abdullah Abdullah told a news conference in Kabul that he was optimistic the issue would soon be resolved.

Earlier Monday, hundreds of clerics and students chanting "Death to Christians!" and "Death to Bush!'" marched through the northern city of Mazar-i-Sharif to protest the court's decision to toss out the case.

"Abdul Rahman must be killed. Islam demands it," said senior Cleric Faiez Mohammed, from the nearby northern city of Kunduz. "The Christian foreigners occupying Afghanistan are attacking our religion."

He warned of possible riots if Rahman is released.

Police in riot gear stood guard but did not intervene. The protest ended peacefully about two hours after it started.

Rahman was moved Friday to Kabul's notorious high-security Policharki prison, a facility that houses about 2,000 inmates, including about 350 Taliban and al-Qaida militants. He was transferred after inmates at a police detention facility reportedly threatened him.


S Misra - 3/24/2006

They don't just bully Denmark, they bully each other. They behave toward each other in horrifying ways, murdering each other like it was some kinda wonderful. Denmark is just the latest victim. I just can't ask people enough to BUY DANISH!!! Make up for the losses by the barbarians.


S Misra - 3/24/2006

Not just the West. All non-Muslim nations should crush Islamic fanatics. Islam is the plague that is hated by every Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, and tribal person throughout South Asia, in Thailand, and a number of other nations. Why leave them out. The more participate in crushing this newest fascism, the better. These people are peepsqueaks compared to Japan or Germany in World War II.


S Misra - 3/24/2006

Thank you for those comments. I didn't realize they justified lying, but I am not surprised. The killing is not done by fanatics, that IS the real Islam. The so-called moderate cleric in Afghanistan who is demanding this Christian's death said that if he is not found guilty, he will call for his being "pulled" apart. This Christian, by contrast, is what makes Jesus superior. This man says, I am not insane and I am not a criminal. He seems prepared to be killed for his faith, just not willing to murder for it, as Muslims are ordered to do by that Koran. You are right, it is Islam that spreads slavery throughout Africa BEFORE Europeans and Americans arrived. I do believe that no Muslim preacher from any Muslim country should be given a visa to practice his religion in any country whose preachers are not allowed to preach in Muslim countries. It is a sinister faith because it speaks peace but believes deeply in war, killing, beating, whipping, beheading, and wholesale slaughter.


BMC - 3/24/2006

Wow, was I ever duped. I used to support Western intervention in Afghanistan. No more.

"... an overwhelming majority of ordinary Afghans appear to believe [he] deserves to be executed."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4841334.stm

I say, let them burn down their own schools too, just like the Taleban want it. Leave the Afghans to the fate they've chosen and let's get out.


- 3/24/2006

351748


Joseph - 3/23/2006

Hell yeah, the Danes didn't do anything wrong. How can anyone even think about issuing an apology!

Bullying a country like Denmark not only show's the Muslim's hipocrisy, intolerance, and foolishness.


S Misra - 3/23/2006

That is why I have to just scratch my head when people say Islam is a religion of peace. The Koran says to kill heretics and nonbelievers. It is license to murder. Just to add to what you quoted, the jailer was quoted in a major newspaper here in the U.S. as saying we will tear him to pieces. Islam is a failure; they can only hold on to their violent faith violently. Logic and peace is beyond their comprehension. Forgiveness is not in their blood, not a part of their Koran. Islam demands submission, intellectual and spiritual slavery to a violent god.


Gary - 3/23/2006

From the religion of peace:

Raoulf, who is a member of the country's main ISLAMIC organization, stated:

"Cut off his head!" he exclaimed, sitting in a courtyard outside Herati Mosque. "We will call on the people to pull him into pieces so there's nothing left."


Gary - 3/23/2006

"Rejecting Islam is insulting God. We will not allow God to be humiliated. This man must die," said cleric Abdul Raoulf....regarding the man in Afghanistan who converted from Islam to Christianity.

More from the religion of "peace".


Gary - 3/23/2006

Quote: "They are afraid that the truth will get out about the true nature of Islam, as if it is not already."

Very well written and factual. Thank you for posting this. Can you read this Hasan? Hasan???

Hasan, where are you????


- 3/23/2006

They are afraid that the truth will get out about the true nature of Islam, as if it is not already. People need to do the research. Mohammed, in point of historical fact, was a murderer (often beheading so-called "infidels" himself), thief (his raids on innocent people are well documented and celebrated by Islamic texts themselves), liar (please google "takiyya" and "kitman" - lying is justified in Islam so long as it furthers global Islamic domination), enslaver (the well documented fate of women and children conquered by Muslims, the men usually being beheaded) , slave owner (still practiced in many Islamic countries and I would note that the U.S. slave trade is dwarfed by that of Islam, both being evil), misogynist (women are chattel, worth only half that of a man, a woman can only receive half of her husband's inheritance (assuming he has only one wife) and, if a woman is raped, a Sharia court will require four male witnesses to the act, something that is nearly impossible and also means that her words are worth 1/4 in an Islamic court than that of a man's) and pedophile (his youngest wife was six years old, but he was a nice fellow and did not "deflower" her until she was nine [insert sarcasm]). Islam's teachings and it so-called "prophet" deserve a lot more scrutiny than the current administration or a politically correct media will allow.


Chaz - 3/23/2006

People need to do the research. Mohammed, in point of historical fact, was a murderer (often beheading so-called "infidels" himself), thief (his raids on innocent people are well documented and celebrated by Islamic texts themselves), liar (please google "takiyya" and "kitman" - lying is justified in Islam so long as it furthers global Islamic domination), enslaver (the well documented fate of women and children conquered by Muslims, the men usually being beheaded) , slave owner (still practiced in many Islamic countries and I would note that the U.S. slave trade is dwarfed by that of Islam, both being evil), misogynist (women are chattel, worth only half that of a man, a woman can only receive half of her husband's inheritance (assuming he has only one wife) and, if a woman is raped, a Sharia court will require four male witnesses to the act, something that is nearly impossible and also means that her words are worth 1/4 in an Islamic court than that of a man's) and pedophile (his youngest wife was six years old, but he was a nice fellow and did not "deflower" her until she was nine [insert sarcasm]). Islam's teachings and it so-called "prophet" deserve a lot more scrutiny than the current administration or a politically correct media will allow.


- 3/23/2006

People need to do the research. Mohammed, in point of historical fact, was a murderer (often beheading so-called "infidels" himself), thief (his raids on innocent people are well documented and celebrated by Islamic texts themselves), liar (please google "takiyya" and "kitman" - lying is justified in Islam so long as it furthers global Islamic domination), enslaver (the well documented fate of women and children conquered by Muslims, the men usually being beheaded) , slave owner (still practiced in many Islamic countries and I would note that the U.S. slave trade is dwarfed by that of Islam, both being evil), misogynist (women are chattel, worth only half that of a man, a woman can only receive half of her husband's inheritance (assuming he has only one wife) and, if a woman is raped, a Sharia court will require four male witnesses to the act, something that is nearly impossible and also means that her words are worth 1/4 in an Islamic court than that of a man's) and pedophile (his youngest wife was six years old, but he was a nice fellow and did not "deflower" her until she was nine [insert sarcasm]). Islam's teachings and it so-called "prophet" deserve a lot more scrutiny than the current administration or a politically correct media will allow.


S Misra - 3/23/2006

Oops!!! I mean the non-Bernies! Forgive me, Great neighbor Bernie!


S Misra - 3/23/2006

Get your mind out of heaven! For the non-Moslems among us, that is the gutter.


Gary - 3/22/2006

What about the 72 virgins, don't I even get them?


S Misra - 3/22/2006

Oh, and

11. Let God judge, not you.


S Misra - 3/22/2006

Minimal elements of a great religion:

1. Teach, don't force or coerce.
2. Do not use violence or teach it.
3. Teach how to forgive.
4. Teach how to be forgiven.
5. Teach how to serve others.
6. Teach equality of all people everywhere.
7. Teach that doubting is an act of a person who is seeking, not an act that deserves punishment.
8. Teach that one has the freedom to believe or disbelieve.
9. Teach how to evangelize not only in words, but with action, service of others.
10. Teach how to love and be loved.


S Misra - 3/22/2006

You nasty heretic! It's Bernie hu Akhbar! Bernie is Great! And, to do it right, you have to soon thereafter explode, preferably in a crowd of people, and it doesn't matter if some are real Bernies. Or, if you prefer, with AK-47s, shoot a few thousand rounds up in the air. Who cares where the bullets fall and whom they hurt. If they are Bernies, they will go to heaven and O la la, and if not Bernies, fry forever.


Gary - 3/22/2006

And don't forget to shout, "Alahu Akbar"!!!


S Misra - 3/22/2006

So do I get the Al Bernie franchise or not. My first motto will be "Yes, Yes, Bernie, No, No, NonBernies," and "Death to America." I guess I have to get in line for the last one. How about "Yankee, go home!" No, that's been done. I am sure the ANTI Bernies will come up with a chant that involves saying Bernie backwards, like "Einreb!" while sacrificing, what else, a virgin or putting to death NonBernies, those scum of the earth that don't deserve to breathe the same air we do. Koolaid anyone (if not strap on bombs will do in a pinch).


S Misra - 3/22/2006

Well, I'm sick of Hasan. I'm Hasaned Out. There is a procedure in behavioral methods called "extinction." It means ignoring. Experiments have proved that once you ignore someone, they try harder, because it worked before, then they quit for a while, then they try something different (in Hasan's case, something more outrageous), and, if you continue to ignore it, I mean him, then the arguments eventually peter out. But at some point if you give in and respond, he gets rewarded for persistance, so, let's try ignoring the twit.


hooligan - 3/21/2006

Thats funny I like that. Also when you say moslems are afraid of the other prophet. Prophets are such a laugh.


Gary - 3/20/2006

Well, here we go again and again with Hasan. How many times do we need to repeat ourselves on the same issues? I am really beginning to wonder if "Hasan" is not one individual but rather several individuals attempting to propagate this backwards cult called a "religion". Nobody can be this dull headed.


S Misra - 3/20/2006

I am no lover of Islam, but that stuff is just gross, and idiotic. Being gross doesn't take much imagination. Of course, it is their right to be gross, but much of it is simply boring, sophomoric.


S Misra - 3/20/2006

Better the obvious than the oblivious.


S Misra - 3/20/2006

Sorry, I don't babysit anymore.


dufuss - 3/19/2006

So you just looked up all this other stuff and copied it but couldnt copy the quotes where this guy says he supports terrorism and war like i asked? Later dude. --- 8(


S Misra - 3/19/2006

Here are just some of his posts: You can look up number 1, the second, "generation of cowards" he shows his anti-semitism, in the next he says he is not a fag, showing his homophobia, and in the next he says he is glad to be a fundamentalist and a terrorist. Now, he does say a terrorist toward criminals, but that is not what Christ or Buddha would say. And terrorism, once practiced successfully with one group, ends up being practiced on all.

By the way, "I don't do work for you," is idiotic since you asked a question but are unwilling to look further, depending on me to dig it up for you shows a laziness. Why be a dufuss, do your homework.

Re: How about when the OIL is CUT OFF (#78120)
by hasan on February 8, 2006 at 5:27 PM

Re: Generation of Cowards (#78968)
by hasan on February 13, 2006 at 4:55 PM
fox is a biased jewish channel. Most of american media is under jewish control. what else can you expect!

Re: This Isn't Islam Versus Secularism (#78102)
by hasan on February 8, 2006 at 3:45 PM
well peggs! im amazed at these lengthy lectures im getting on churches from you. I have written something entirely different on 2 occasions and you have managed to evade the discussion at hand. it seems as if you have a mind of your own and you are not prepared to listen to others. i have been well-behaved i come as a guest to your forums and all i get to see is the re-incarnation of churches. Let me share a link with you which an american blogger shared with me :

http://www.godhatesfags.com

if you are following news in america you would probably have heard of 6-7 baptist churches being burnt down in a matter of days.

i have nothing against fags and i'm no fag either. so dont get any wrong ideas.

ISLAM AND TERRORISM (#77725)
by hasan on February 7, 2006 at 6:05 AM


ISLAM AND TERRORISM

BY

DR. ZAKIR NAIK



MUSLIMS ARE FUNDAMENTALISTS AND TERRORISTS

Question:

Why are most of the Muslims fundamentalists and terrorists?

Answer:

This question is often hurled at Muslims, either directly or indirectly, during any discussion on religion or world affairs. Muslim stereotypes are perpetuated in every form of the media accompanied by gross misinformation about Islam and Muslims. In fact, such misinformation and false propaganda often leads to discrimination and acts of violence against Muslims. A case in point is the anti-Muslim campaign in the American media following the Oklahoma bomb blast, where the press was quick to declare a ‘Middle Eastern conspiracy’ behind the attack. The culprit was later identified as a soldier from the American Armed Forces.

Let us analyze this allegation of ‘fundamentalism’ and ‘terrorism’:

1. Definition of the word ‘fundamentalist’

A fundamentalist is a person who follows and adheres to the fundamentals of the doctrine or theory he is following. For a person to be a good doctor, he should know, follow, and practise the fundamentals of medicine. In other words, he should be a fundamentalist in the field of medicine. For a person to be a good mathematician, he should know, follow and practise the fundamentals of mathematics. He should be a fundamentalist in the field of mathematics. For a person to be a good scientist, he should know, follow and practise the fundamentals of science. He should be a fundamentalist in the field of science.

2. Not all ‘fundamentalists’ are the same

One cannot paint all fundamentalists with the same brush. One cannot categorize all fundamentalists as either good or bad. Such a categorization of any fund amentalist will depend upon the field or activity in which he is a fundamentalist. A fundamentalist robber or thief causes harm to society and is therefore undesirable. A fundamentalist doctor, on the other hand, benefits society and earns much respect.

3. I am proud to be a Muslim fundamentalist

I am a fundamentalist Muslim who, by the grace of Allah, knows, follows and strives to practise the fundamentals of Islam. A true Muslim does not shy away from being a fundamentalist. I am proud to be a fundamentalist Muslim because, I know that the fundamentals of Islam are beneficial to humanity and the whole world. There is not a single fundamental of Islam that causes harm or is against the interests of the human race as a whole. Many people harbour misconceptions about Islam and consider several teachings of Islam to be unfair or improper. This is due to insufficient and incorrect knowledge of Islam. If one critically analyzes the teachings of Islam with an open mind, one cannot escape the fact that Islam is full of benefits both at the individual and collective levels.

4. Dictionary meaning of the word ‘fundamentalist’

According to Webster’s dictionary ‘fundamentalism’ was a movement in American Protestanism that arose in the earlier part of the 20th century. It was a reaction to modernism, and stressed the infallibility of the Bible, not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record. It stressed on belief in the Bible as the literal word of God. Thus fundamentalism was a word initially used for a group of Christians who believed that the Bible was the verbatim word of God without any errors and mistakes.

According to the Oxford dictionary ‘fundamentalism’ means ‘strict maintenance of ancient or fundamental doctrines of any religion, especially Islam’.

Today the moment a person uses the word fundamentalist he thinks of a Muslim who is a terrorist.

5. Every Muslim should be a terrorist

Every Muslim should be a terrorist. A terrorist is a person who causes terror. The moment a robber sees a policeman he is terrified. A policeman is a terrorist for the robber. Similarly every Muslim should be a terrorist for the antisocial elements of society, such as thieves, dacoits and rapists. Whenever such an anti-social element sees a Muslim, he should be terrified. It is true that the word ‘terrorist’ is generally used for a person who causes terror among the common people. But a true Muslim should only be a terrorist to selective people i.e. anti-social elements, and not to the common innocent people. In fact a Muslim should be a source of peace for innocent people.

6. Different labels given to the same individual for the same action, i.e. ‘terrorist’ and ‘patriot’

Before India achieved independence from British rule, some freedom fighters of India who did not subscribe to non-violence were labeled as terrorists by the British government. The same individuals have been lauded by Indians for the same activities and hailed as ‘patriots’. Thus two different labels have been given to the same people for the same set of actions. One is calling him a terrorist while the other is calling him a patriot. Those who believed that Britain had a right to rule over India called these people terrorists, while those who were of the view that Britain had no right to rule India called them patriots and freedom fighters.

It is therefore important that before a person is judged, he is given a fair hearing. Both sides of the argument should be heard, the situation should be analyzed, and the reason and the intention of the person should be taken into account, and then the person can be judged accordingly.

7. Islam means peace

Islam is derived from the word ‘salaam’ which means peace. It is a religion of peace whose fundamentals teach its followers to maintain and promote peace throughout the world.

Thus every Muslim should be a fundamentalist i.e. he should follow the fundamentals of the Religion of Peace: Islam. He should be a terrorist only towards the antisocial elements in order to promote peace and justice in the society.


WAS ISLAM SPREAD BY THE SWORD?

Question:

How can Islam be called the religion of peace when it was spread by the sword?

Answer:

It is a common complaint among some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force. The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.

1. Islam means peace.

Islam comes from the root word ‘salaam’, which means peace. It also means submitting one’s will to Allah (swt). Thus Islam is a religion of peace, which is acquired by submitting one’s will to the will of the Supreme Creator, Allah (swt).

2. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace.

Each and every human being in this world is not in favour of maintaining peace and harmony. There are many, who would disrupt it for their own vested interests. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against criminals and anti-social elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace. At the same time, Islam exhorts it followers to fight where there is oppression. The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.

3. Opinion of historian De Lacy O’Leary.

The best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword is given by the noted historian De Lacy O’Leary in the book ’Islam at the cross road’ (Page 8):

’History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated.’


4. Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years.

Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.

5. 14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians.

Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.

6. More than 80% non-Muslims in India.

The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.

7. Indonesia and Malaysia.

Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. The majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. May one ask, ’Which Muslim army went to Indonesia and Malaysia?’

8. East Coast of Africa.

Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, ’Which Muslim army went to the East Coast of Africa?’

9. Thomas Carlyle.

The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book ’Heroes and Hero worship’, refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: ’The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one. In one man’s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and try to propagate with that, will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can.’

10. No compulsion in religion.

With which sword was Islam spread? Even if Muslims had it they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur’an says in the following verse:

’Let there be no compulsion in religion:
Truth stands out clear from error’
[Al-Qur’an 2:256]

11. Sword of the Intellect.

It is the sword of intellect. The sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. The Qur’an says in Surah Nahl, chapter 16 verse 125:

’Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord
with wisdom and beautiful preaching;
and argue with them in ways that are
best and most gracious.’
[Al-Qur’an 16:125]

12. Increase in the world religions from 1934 to 1984.

An article in Reader’s Digest ‘Almanac’, year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in ‘The Plain Truth’ magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, and Christianity had increased only by 47%. May one ask, which war took place in this century which converted millions of people to Islam?

13. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe.

Today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe in Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept Islam in such large numbers?


dufuss - 3/19/2006

1 he has? no i don't, show me, you saw it first
2 he has? show me ditto, i don't do work for you you've already done


S Misra - 3/19/2006

1 Hasan has. I don't have the energy to go dig up an early post of his, you'll just have to scan and find.
2 Hasan has. Ditto to 1.


S Misra - 3/19/2006

Let me be a prophet of Bernie. Who is Bernie? He is Bernard. Bernard means:

Strong or brave as a bear. From a first name of Germanic origin, Bernard was originally Bernharding from 'beran' meaning bear and 'hardu' meaning brave, hardy, or strong. But Bernard can also be spelled BARNARD, BERNART, BERNDSEN, BERNHARD, BERNHARDT, BERNAERT. Woah! I see 8 future sects of the Bernie faith, including BERNARD and BERNIE. My suggestion to the true Bernie believers is to strap bombs and immediately begin eliminating, rubbing out, liquidating, fatwaing, making sleep with the fishes the other sects. All images of Bernie are forbidden. When BernieBelievers die, especially after they kill all Bernie sects and non Bernies, they go to Bernieheaven where 72 virgins and a flat panel television with a remote are at your disposal.


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/19/2006

"But to analyze what he is saying ... guides him."

Thanks again. This however, is also to state the obvious. I'll await something that he says, if anything.


hooligan - 3/19/2006

Me, I believe in the god of all gods, @#$%^&* and his prophet Bernie. HE (@#$%^&*, not Bernie you dolt!) created all your other gods and prophets. No, really.

Unfortunately, my neighbor Bernie (pbuh) is the only one who has a copy of @#$%^&*'s holy book and if i told you about it now, before it is revealed unto you all, i'd be in deep doodoo with you-know-who. *wink*

Don't feel stupid that you didn't know about @#$%^&* already or worry about hell-fire and all that stuff. Who are we to comprehend the ways of @#$%^&* (and Bernie), right?

Though you should see the miracles Bernie performs! *whoa*


S Misra - 3/19/2006

The following news comes from Afghanistan. This is Islam as the Koran preaches it, no peace and love and people of the Book here, nope, just murder.

KABUL, Afghanistan - An Afghan man is being prosecuted in a Kabul court and could be sentenced to death on a charge of converting from Islam to Christianity, a crime under this country's Islamic laws, a judge said Sunday.
The trial is believed to be the first of its kind in Afghanistan and highlights a struggle between religious conservatives and reformists over what shape Islam should take here four years after the ouster of the Islamic fundamentalist Taliban regime.

The defendant, 41-yer-old Abdul Rahman, was arrested last month after his family accused him of becoming a Christian, Judge Ansarullah Mawlavezada told The Associated Press in an interview. Rahman was charged with rejecting Islam and his trial started Thursday.

During the one-day hearing, the defendant confessed that he converted from Islam to Christianity 16 years ago while working as a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in the Pakistani city of Peshawar, Mawlavezada said.

"We are not against any particular religion in the world. But in Afghanistan, this sort of thing is against the law," the judge said. "It is an attack on Islam."

Mawlavezada said he would rule on the case within two months.

Afghanistan's constitution is based on Shariah law, which is interpreted by many Muslims to require that any Muslim who rejects Islam be sentenced to death, said Ahmad Fahim Hakim, deputy chairman of the state-sponsored Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission.

Repeated attempts to interview Rahman in detention were barred.

The prosecutor, Abdul Wasi, said he had offered to drop the charges if Rahman converted back to Islam, but he refused.

"He would have been forgiven if he changed back. But he said he was a Christian and would always remain one," Wasi told AP. "We are Muslims and becoming a Christian is against our laws. He must get the death penalty."

After being an aid worker for four years in Pakistan, Rahman moved to Germany for nine years, his father, Abdul Manan, said outside his Kabul home.

Rahman returned to Afghanistan in 2002 and tried to gain custody of his two daughters, now aged 13 and 14, who had been living with their grandparents their whole lives, the father said. A custody battle ensued and the matter was taken to the police.

During questioning, it emerged that Rahman was a Christian and was carrying a Bible. He was immediately arrested and charged, the father said.

Afghanistan is a conservative Islamic country. Some 99 percent of its 28 million people are Muslim, and the remainder are mainly Hindu.

A Christian aid worker in Kabul, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter, said there was no reliable figure for the number of Christians, though it was believed to be only in the dozens or low hundreds. He said few admit their faith because of fear of retribution and there are no known Afghan churches.

An old house in a war-wrecked suburb of Kabul serves as a Christian place of worship for expatriates. From the muddy street, the building looks like any other. Its guard, Abdul Wahid, said no Afghans go there.

The only other churches are believed to be inside foreign embassies or on bases belonging to the U.S.-led coalition or a NATO peacekeeping force.

Hakim, the human rights advocate, said the case would attract widespread attention in Afghanistan and could be exploited by Muslim conservatives to rally opposition to reformists who are trying to moderate how the religion is practiced here.

"The reformists are trying to bring about positive changes," he said. "This case could be fertile ground for extremists to manipulate things."

Muslim clerics still hold considerable power in Afghanistan, especially in rural areas where most women wear all-encompassing burqas and are dominated by men.

Hakim said that if Rahman was acquitted, it would be a propaganda win for the Taliban rebels, who have stepped up their insurgency in the past year.

In the months before U.S.-led troops ousted the Taliban in 2001, it claimed Western aid groups were trying to convert Afghan Muslims. They arrested eight foreign aid workers for allegedly preaching Christianity, but later released them unharmed.
***************
I believe Muslims are afraid of Christianity because it refuses violence and therefore is morally superior. The words of Jesus are superior to the words of Mohammed, a killer, a person who married a child, a polygamist, a common businessman and minor conqueror.


dufuss - 3/19/2006

1 - who has openly justified terrorism in a post
2 - who has openly justified war

holy crap - what are the quotes and what are the subject titles. i gotta read this


dufuss - 3/19/2006

If you're muslim and easily offended by Mo(pbuh) cartoons, DON'T OPEN THIS LINK!!!

http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/extreme_mohammed/


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/19/2006

Ah, shucks ... enough with the flattery already.


S Misra - 3/19/2006

True. But to analyze what he is saying, one has to take at least a look at that book, which he says guides him. That way, one can tell whether he is true to his faith. For example, nowhere can one get the impression in the Koran that peace and love are the primary missions of the believer especially with the nonbeliever. Hasan wants to preach peace and love. That is for consumption. Reality of the Koran is different.


S Misra - 3/19/2006

OK. Strumming my fingers...Letting you get on with your Socratic questioning.


S Misra - 3/19/2006

The You should have been a We.


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/19/2006

"How exactly do you abuse someone who has ..."
Kicking him in the nuts repeatedly is one sure way. *bwahahah*

"You keep asking for Hasan's opinion, but you contribute no opinions."
In this thread!? I've only posted once in this thread and there is an opinion expressed. Patience man.

I won't try to reply to the rest of your message because it states the obvious in many places, or addresses things of peripheral interest to my present purpose. More to the point, I choose to "draw out" the views of the original poster in my own fashion, in my own time.


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/19/2006

Fair enough. I've barely looked into the matter.

Nevertheless, as you've already cautioned me in another post, I cannot simply "take your word for it". ;)


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/19/2006

Reading the Koran myself will tell me nothing about the poster's understanding of the question (as yet unanswered).


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/19/2006

"If you cannot get the point the first time"

Huh? How do you infer that? I asked and wait to hear the poster's point.


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/19/2006

"You quickly condemn Christian crusades"

I did? Where exactly?


lionheart - 3/19/2006

It is a sad fact that the west has to crush the moslem fascist fanatics if we are to live a decent life


S Misra - 3/19/2006

:) :0 It would be funnier if there wasn't an element of truth to it.


S Misra - 3/19/2006

Far be it from me to pull Hasan's ball bearings from the fire, but I think he means that insulting any religion is intensely disliked so should be avoided at all costs. However, no one will die as a consequence of South Park, but hundreds have died as a result of comics. See the difference, Hasan? Love and peace only to believers, kill nonbelievers. You try to speak peace, but your posts make it quite clear, you hate Jews, you hate Hindus, you hate nonbelievers, you support war and terror, you think only of insults to Islam by non Muslims but are incredibly silent as Sunni kill Shiites and Shiites kill Sunni and each burn each other's mosques and Korans. There is a word for that, hypocrisy.


S Misra - 3/19/2006

You quickly condemn Christian crusades, and they deserve condemnation. They were brutal, bloody, and merciless. But why do you not see that Islam has had a thousand years of crusades, continuing to today. The destruction of the Buddha statues, the banning of evangelism in Arab and Muslim countries, the destruction of Afghanistan's pre-Muslim museum pieces...have you no idea that you decry the Crusades and don't realize that to this day authors and others live in fear for their lives for saying even mildly critical or thoughtful things about Islam. Just today, in the Washington Post, Iran released a newspaper editor who found out that Muslim clerics ordered the murder of a number of people, then printed it in his newspaper. In Guantanamo, the prisoners are receiving over 4,000 calories a day as documented by the Red Cross. This Iranian editor left the prison at 108 pounds, his friends and family had trouble recognizing him, his health was shot, his blood pressure high, he was tortured, held in solitary confinement. Don't you get it? Islam is required to conduct violent crusades forever by the Koran. Don't believe me, READ it for yourself in the Koran and in legitimate history books published by peer reviewed scholars.


S Misra - 3/19/2006

Actually, Much of Indonesia was still Hindu until the volcanic eruption in the 1800s, when Islamic mullahs in Indonesia forced conversion, believing that the volcanic eruption was a sign from Allah that they should not tolerate nonbelievers in their midst. Also, recently, Christians have been persecuted in Indonesia. The Bali bombings were done by Muslims.

I have never said that all Muslim conversions were by violence. In fact, in India, for example, a number of Muslims are recognized for being nonviolent missionaries of their faith. This usually happened when they were outnumbered. That is not the problem. The problem begins, and for this you should really read history, when Islamic kings realized by converting others they lost the additional tax revenue because in Islam they tax nonbelievers at a higher rate, and, all too often, they resorted to brute force. Even in concentration camps, not every guard was brutal, but they served a brutal idea and a brutal regime. Likewise, the Koran commands destruction of other's places of worship, their libraries, their monks, their religious people, and forcible or coerced conversion of their faithful. Coercion is achieved by unequal taxation. Why don't you read Joseph Campbell, a world recognized authority on religions, a well respected scholar, and what he says about the brutality of Islamic conquests. I know one thing for sure, you are incorrect about Indonesia. Force was involved as was coercion.


S Misra - 3/19/2006

Read the Koran for yourself.


Slater - 3/19/2006

No... it's not. Fortunately.
What are you talking about?


S Misra - 3/19/2006

If you cannot get the point the first time, perhaps there is no point other than blind lashing out. People who are fuzzy thinkers make fuzzy points, and people seeking information from fuzzy thinkers are even more blurry.


Slater - 3/19/2006

Actually this article goes AGAINST any argument previously made by hasan, as it makes fun of people who stand up for their own religion, but have no problem with ridiculing other religions.


S Misra - 3/19/2006

By the way, taking someone's word is silly. This is why you as a human being have the capacity to reason. You wouldn't take a used car dealer's word, you wouldn't take the word of just anyone when purchasing any product of any value. That is called being gullible, a sucker. You cannot be spoonfed truth. You have to study, learn, and be prepared to challenge feelgood nonsense. No religion can become powerful without referencing the importance of love, but what they do when faced with nonbelievers and even those who profane what the believers hold sacred is what divides the sheep from the goats. Islam openly advocates unequal taxation, theocracy, which is a more crushing dictatorship, a dictatorship with an ideology, it more dangerous than simple tyranny, and Islam advocates the killing of nonbelievers. Don't believe me, don't be my sucker like you invite Hasan to be your source for truth, read.


Slater - 3/19/2006

Or perhaps an incitement to start a new one... which is just plain idiotic.
The Western World is not the aggressor here, and we should keep it that way. If the rabid Muslims then decide to attack us, we can defend ourselves. But we should not attack thus stooping to their level.


S Misra - 3/19/2006

Infidel:
Abuse? How exactly do you abuse someone who has referred others to homophobic sites, who has openly justified terrorism in a post, who has openly justified war, who cannot find one critical or analytical thing to say about Islam. He responds with name calling, much of which is wrong. How do you abuse a hateful person? By telling them the truth? Like Truman said about the popular saying about him, "Give 'em hell, Harry," "I give them the truth and they think it's hell." Infidel, you don't have to believe me about Hasan, check out his posts. Am I to tell a Hitler, thank goodness you withstood the abuse of Semites and Gypsies and Slavs, after all, you are only trying to spread love and peace (through total conquest)? You keep asking for Hasan's opinion, but you contribute no opinions. To depend on another person's opinion is silly, to have an opinion is a right, but it is the responsible thing to be rational with one's opinion. Not every opinion is right just because it is an opinion, and half baked sites and pseudo-scholars do not make wrong right. Don't just wait for a biased person to give an opinion, read the Koran for yourself, read H.G. Wells, read Joseph Campbell, read Will and Ariel Durant, or read Max Weber in short, read history, and you will find the brutality with which Islam has treated the people it conquered. What some other anonymous Muslim says is not scholarship, certainly, Hasan, given his previous posts, will not be a satisfactory guide to your quest for information. Read real historians. Or, be prepared to be led around by the nose by someone for whom all things Muslim are good and all things Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, et cetera, are evil. That is not my opinion, it is what Hasan himself has said. If you think holding up a mirror to an anti-Semite is abuse, then what is the truth?


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/18/2006

Several of the quotes refer to "believers". Please clarify for me Hasan, what is the context of "believer" in these quotes?

thx


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/18/2006

p.s. Strictly speaking, it was not "converted by Mussalmans", so far as I can tell. Nevertheless the wholesale use of "force" appears not to have been involved.


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/18/2006

"name me a nation"

The islands of (what is now known as) Indonesia. The historical record is fuzzy, but evidently peaceful - and it's Googlable (is that a word?).


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/18/2006

To which of the "Crusades" (from the 11th to 13th centuries) are you referring? Or is this an allusion to contemporary portrayals of "Western" intervention in the mid-east as "Crusades"?


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/18/2006

Hi there boreal,

Sometimes these clipped URL's don't work. Are there some search terms that could be used?

thx


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/18/2006

I admire your fortitude. I've just spent time reading many of your posts in this forum (that is, excluding the copy/clips) and see you've withstood much abuse. I will take you on your word that your purpose is to spread the message of peace and love. More power to you.

What strikes me now, is this question of the quoting of religious texts, in context or not. More generally this speaks to the interpretation of religious texts.

There are admittedly Hindu, Christian, Jewish and Muslim readers/interpreters of religious text (from their respective Holy writs) that justify acts of intolerance and violence based on their understanding of those texts. You evidently would disagree with those interpretations.

As a Muslim, what are your comments about other Muslims that justify violence based on their readings (in context?) of the Quran?

Thanks


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/18/2006

I've read the news article you've copy/clipped. Thanks.

Now your point would be ...?


Crusade - 3/18/2006

A Christian Crusade to the Holy Land


S Misra - 3/18/2006

Islamic piss is not water, Hasan, and Islamic shit is not food, and Islamic farts are not perfume. Learn to be just a little critical of your faith.


S Misra - 3/18/2006

Oops! Sorry.


S Misra - 3/18/2006

Whereas I, little Hasan, readily reject Hindu texts because they are fundamentally justifying violence, you, little Hasan, think Islamic shit smells sweet.


S Misra - 3/18/2006

I too am sick and tired of little Hasan. He is a childishly maudlin, woman hating, anti-Semitic, terrorist supporting, war mongering, Islamo-fascist who probably lives in the comfort of a democratic society while whining about it. Wherever he comes from, it is likely they wish they had the freedoms we in civilized nations have. Perhaps he would like to experience the freedom of Saudi Arabia, the nation named after a family, or Iran, where there is no freedom of speech, or Pakistan, where they bomb their own people such as in Bengal or Baluchistan, or... well, you get the picture. When you live in that muck, all you see is mud and all you learn to do is to tell bad mud from worse mud.


S Misra - 3/18/2006

Hasan, learn something now from democratic societies where freedom of speech is paramount. No Mormon will riot, strap bombs, put a fatwa on the South Park creators, kidnap innocents, kill them by beheading, hanging, burn their bodies (in one post, you cried about the Muslim graves in some European country not being respected; do you remember how Iraqi Moslems treated the bodies of those American workers, hanging them off the bridge, burnt and defiled?). Face it, you are a muddleheaded person. Still I say I can defend Islam better than you. Loser.


S Misra - 3/18/2006

Why should Allah have mercy? His blood red fangs proclaim vengeance, blood, fear, terror, and violence. If he has mercy, it is not because he is following the true Messiah, Jesus, it is because he is the dark vision of a rich businessman who married many women and taught followers to kill. If he has mercy, it is because he wants to, not because he is Good, as Jesus is.


S Misra - 3/18/2006

Name calling again, little Hasan? Not one sentence was given out of context and so that any reader could go look it up, the verse was also given. Of course the Mahabharata and Ramayana and other religious works of Hindus are violent. So? All violence is wrong. Feel good "Peace and love" is not what Islam is about. It is about violence, absolute unthinking obedience, stoning and whipping, killing and war. Just one example, whereas Jesus forgives the adulteress, Mohammed says in the Koran that adulteresses must be whipped. Prove me wrong Hasan. Your religion is brutally violent and it was spread largely by violence, which is nothing new, Christianity did the same in the New World and elsewhere, but unlike Christianity, Islam cannot correct itself because the Koran is violent. Christians cannot go back to the New Testament and find any reason to commit violence. Islam can. Your religion is a failure in accepting fundamental human rights, in being morally decent toward women. One day, we all will, including future generations of people from today's Moslem lands, and wonder how their foolish ancestors could have worshipped a religion so brutal that it really only compares to the pagan religions such as the Aztecs and Romans. I am a Christian, and you are an intellectual coward because you call names and never address the issue at hand. Dressing up the naked nastiness of the so-called Prophet with nonsense feel good peace and love invisible clothes will not make him appear royal. Loser.


Infidelity - 3/18/2006

Hmmm (scratching head bewilderedly). Your question is directed at Hasan, no? ;)


No more - 3/18/2006

Does the quran mention computers and modern living? No? Why the hell live by it then?


No more - 3/18/2006

I've had it with you brainwashed pityfull people: do your religious dirt in your home, and leave the rest of us in peace!


hasan - 3/18/2006

Most people portray icomplete Quranic scriptures. If at one instance Allah talks about a battle field scene. What else do you expect in a battle field other than fighting.

For all those who sincerely wish to read the Quran read it in context.

Its like saying Misra is an IDIOT. but if you read the complete paragraph it would imply if Misra keeps on misleading public by giving incomplete information of the Quran then Misra is an Idiot. :)

What if i start taking texts out of Hindu Vedas and Mahabharat...It would be nothing but blood in those scriptures...

Be true to yourself atleast. The difference is visible. Here i am a muslim trying to spread the message of peace and love and there you have one Hindu called Misra spreading hatred and bigotary.

May Allah have mercy on all and show us the righteous path.


hasan - 3/18/2006

Misra again reverts to his grandfathers scheme of quoting quran out of context. Most of such scriptures portray a battle field story. What do u do in a battle ?

For all those who sincerely wish to read the Quran read it in context.

Its like saying Misra is an IDIOT. but if you read the complete paragraph it would imply if Misra keeps on misleading public by giving incomplete information of the Quran then Misra is an Idiot. :)

What if i start taking texts out of Hindu Vedas and Mahabharat...It would be nothing but blood in those scriptures...

Be true to yourself atleast. The difference is visible. Here i am a muslim trying to spread the message of peace and love and there you have one Hindu called Misra spreading hatred and bigotary.

May Allah have mercy on all and show us the righteous path.


hasan - 3/18/2006

South Park's creators have renewed their "battle" with Scientology, after a US TV channel dropped a show which mocked its church and actor Tom Cruise.

"So, Scientology, you may have won THIS battle, but the million-year war for earth has just begun!" Trey Parker and Matt Stone told trade paper Variety.

Comedy Central said the schedule change enabled it to screen two extra episodes featuring Isaac Hayes, who played Chef.

Hayes left South Park this week after objecting to it sending up religion.

Parker and Stone added in their statement to Variety: "Temporarily anozinizing our episode will NOT stop us from keeping Thetans forever trapped in your pitiful man-bodies."

Comedy Central's spokesman said the channel wanted to "give Chef an appropriate tribute by airing two episodes he is most known for".

The channel also denied it had axed the episode featuring Cruise after reports of pressure from the actor to drop it from its schedules.

And the actor denied reports suggesting he had threatened not to promote his latest film Mission Impossible: 3 if the episode was broadcast.

The film is being brought out in May by Paramount, which is owned, along with Comedy Central, by Viacom.

Cruise, an outspoken follower of Scientology, starred in the first two Mission Impossible films.

In a recent episode, one of the gang, Stan, did so well in a Scientology test that church followers thought he was the next L Ron Hubbard, the late science-fiction writer who founded Scientology.

Hayes, 63, had been a regular on South Park since its US TV debut in 1997.

The show was insensitive to "personal spiritual beliefs", Hayes said.

But Stone said Hayes had "never had a problem" until the Scientology Church, to which Hayes belongs, was parodied.

Hayes, who has played the ladies' man/school cook in the animated Comedy Central satire since 1997, said in a statement Monday that he feels a line has been crossed.

"There is a place in this world for satire, but there is a time when satire ends and intolerance and bigotry towards religious beliefs of others begins," the 63-year-old soul singer and outspoken Scientologist said.

"Religious beliefs are sacred to people, and at all times should be respected and honored," he continued. "As a civil rights activist of the past 40 years, I cannot support a show that disrespects those beliefs and practices."

Last November, "South Park" targeted the Church of Scientology and its celebrity followers, including actors Tom Cruise and John Travolta


S Misra - 3/18/2006

Why "I Slam" into the World Trade Center is blessed by Mohammed and the Koran.

Bukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”
Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”
Qur’an 8:57 “If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”
Ishaq:326 “If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.”
Qur’an 8:67 “It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”
Ishaq:588 “When the Apostle descends on your land none of your people will be left when he leaves.”
Tabari IX:42 “We have been dealt a situation from which there is no escape. You have seen what Muhammad has done. Arabs have submitted to him and we do not have the strength to fight. You know that no herd is safe from him. And no one even dares go outside for fear of being terrorized.”
Ishaq:326 “Allah said, ‘No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.’ Muhammad said, ‘I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.’”
Ishaq:327 “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”
Qur’an 7:3 “Little do you remember My warning. How many towns have We destroyed as a raid by night? Our punishment took them suddenly while they slept for their afternoon rest. Our terror came to them; Our punishment overtook them.”
Ishaq:510 “When the Apostle looked down on Khaybar he told his Companions, ‘O Allah, Lord of the Devils and what into error they throw, and Lord of the winds and what they winnow, we ask Thee for the booty of this town and its people. Forward in the name of Allah.’ He used to say this of every town he raided.”
Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet offered the Fajr Prayer [Prayer of Fear] near Khaybar when it was still dark. He said, ‘Allahu-Akbar!’ [Allah is Greatest] Khaybar is destroyed, for whenever we approach a hostile nation to fight, then evil will be the morning for those who have been warned.’ Then the inhabitants came out running on their roads. The Prophet had their men killed; their children and woman were taken as captives.”
Bukhari:V9B87N127 “The Prophet said, ‘I have been given the keys of eloquent speech and given victory with terror.’”
Ishaq:517 “Khaybar was stormed by the Apostle’s squadron, fully armed, powerful and strong. It brought certain humiliation with Muslim men in its midst. We attacked and they met their doom. Muhammad conquered the Jews in fighting that day as they opened their eyes to our dust.”
Tabari VIII:116/Ishaq:511 “So Muhammad began seizing their herds and their property bit by bit. He conquered home by home. The Messenger took some people captive, including Safiyah and her two cousins. The Prophet chose Safiyah for himself.”
Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their children and woman taken captive.”
Tabari VIII:129 “After the Messenger had finished with the Khaybar Jews, Allah cast terror into the hearts of the Jews in Fadak when they received news of what Allah had brought upon Khaybar. Fadak became the exclusive property of Allah’s Messenger.”
Tabari VIII:133 “The raiding party went to Tha’labah. One of Muhammad’s slaves, said, ‘Prophet, I know where Tha’labah can be taken by surprise.’ So Muhammad sent him with 130 men. They raided the town and drove off camels and sheep, bringing them back to Medina.”
Tabari VIII:138 “Muhammad carried arms, helmets, and spears. He led a hundred horses, appointing Bahir to be in charge of the weapons and Maslamah to be in charge of the horses. When the Quraysh received word of this, it frightened them.”
Qur’an 33:26 “Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.”
Qur’an 59:2 “It was Allah who drove the [Jewish] People of the Book from their homes and into exile. They refused to believe and imagined that their strongholds would protect them against Allah. But Allah came at them from where they did not suspect, and filled their hearts with terror. Their homes were destroyed. So learn a lesson, O men who have eyes. This is My warning…they shall taste the torment of Fire.”
Qur’an 33:60 “Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy—a fierce slaughter—murdered, a horrible murdering.”
Tabari VIII:143 “In this year a twenty-four man raiding party led by Shuja went to the Banu Amir. He launched a raid on them and took camels and sheep. The shares of booty came to fifteen camels for each man. Also a raid led by Amr went to Dhat. He set out with fifteen men. He encountered a large force whom he summoned to Islam. They refused to respond so he killed all of them.”
Bukhari:V4B52N256 “The Prophet passed by and was asked whether it was permissible to attack infidels at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, ‘Their women and children are from them.’”
Tabari IX:20 “The captives of Hunayn, along with their possessions, were brought to the Messenger. He ordered that their captives, animals, and their possessions be taken to Ji’ranah and held there in custody.”
Ishaq:576 “Allah and His servant overwhelmed every coward. Allah honored us and made our religion victorious. We were glorified and destroyed them all. Allah humiliated them in the worship of Satan. By what our Apostle recites from the Book and by our swift horses, I liked the punishment the infidels received. Killing them was sweeter than drink. We galloped among them panting for the spoil. With our loud-voiced army, the Apostle’s squadron advanced into the fray.”
Ishaq:580 “Our strong warriors obey his orders to the letter. By us Allah’s religion is undeniably strong. You would think when our horses gallop with bits in their mouths that the sounds of demons are among them. The day we trod down the unbelievers there was no deviation or turning from the Apostle’s order. During the battle the people heard our exhortations to fight and the smashing of skulls by swords that sent heads flying. We severed necks with a warrior’s blow. Often we have left the slain cut to pieces and a widow crying alas over her mutilated husband. ’Tis Allah, not man we seek to please.”
Tabari IX:122 “Muhammad sent Uyaynah to raid The Banu Anbar. They killed some people and took others captive. Asma was one of the women taken prisoner.”
Tabari IX:123 “Muhammad sent an expedition to Ghalib and to the land of the Banu Murrah. The raid on Amr and Abi was sent to the valley of Idam. Another by Aslami was sent to Ghabah. And Abd al-Rahman was ordered by the Messenger to lead an army to the seashore.”
Tabari IX:69 “He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for those who disbelieve, we will fight them forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing them is a small matter to us.”
Bukhari:V5B59N516 “When Allah’s Apostle fought or raided people we raised our voices saying, ‘Allahu-Akbar! Allahu-Akbar! None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.’”
Tabari VII:10 “In Ramadhan, seven months after the Hijrah, Muhammad entrusted a white war banner to Hamzah with the command of thirty Emigrants. Their aim was to intercept a Quraysh caravan.”
Ishaq:281 “The Raid on Waddan was the first Maghazi [invasion]. The Expedition of Harith was second. They encountered a large number of Quraysh in the Hijaz. Abu Bakr composed a poem about the raid: ‘When we called them to the truth they turned their backs and howled like bitches. Allah’s punishment on them will not tarry. I swear by the Lord of Camels [Allah?] that I am no perjurer. A valiant band will descend upon the Quraysh which will leave women husbandless. It will leave men dead, with vultures wheeling round. It will not spare the infidels.’”
Ishaq:285 “Then the Apostle went raiding in the month of Rabi u’l-Awwal making for the Quraysh. Then he raided the Quraysh by way of Dinar.” Tabari VII:11 “In this year the Messenger entrusted to Sa’d a white war banner for the expedition to Kharrar. Sa’d said, ‘I set out on foot at the head of twenty men. We used to lie hidden by day and march at night, until we reached Kharrar on the fifth morning. The caravan had arrived in town a day before. There were sixty men with it.” Tabari VII:11 “The Messenger of Allah went out on a raid as far as Waddan, searching for Quraysh.”
Tabari VII:15 “Expeditions Led by Allah’s Messenger: In this year, according to all Sira writers, the Messenger personally led the Ghazwa of Alwa. [A Ghazwa is an Islamic Invasion in Allah’s Cause consisting of an army unit led by the Prophet himself.] He left Sa’d in command of Medina. On this raid his banner was carried by Hamzah. He stayed out for fifteen days and then returned to Medina. The Messenger went on a Ghazwa at the head of two hundred of his companions in October, 623 and reached Buwat. His intention was to intercept a Quraysh caravan with a hundred men and twenty-five hundred camels.”
Ishaq:286 “Meanwhile the Apostle sent Sa’d on the raid of Abu Waqqas. The Prophet only stayed a few nights in Medina before raiding Ushayra and then Kurz.”
Bukhari:V5B57N51 “The Apostle said, ‘Tomorrow I will give the flag to a man whose leadership Allah will use to grant a Muslim victory.”
Bukhari:V5B59N569 “I fought in seven Ghazwat battles along with the Prophet and fought in nine Maghazi raids in armies dispatched by the Prophet.”
Bukhari:V5B57N74 “I heard Sa’d saying, ‘I was the first Arab to shoot an arrow in Allah’s Cause.’”
Bukhari:V5B59N401 “Allah’s Wrath became severe on anyone the Prophet killed in Allah’s Cause.”
Bukhari:V5B59N456 “Muhammad led the Fear Prayer [Allahu Akbar!] with one batch of his army while the other (batch) faced the enemy.”
Bukhari:V5B59N440 “Allah’s Apostle used to say, ‘None has the right to be worshipped except Allah Alone because He honored His Warriors and made His Messenger victorious. He defeated the clans; so there is nothing left.’”
Ishaq:287 “The Muslim raiders consulted one another concerning them. One of the Muslims said, ‘By Allah, if we leave these people alone, they will get into the sacred territory and will be safely out of our reach. If we kill them we will have killed in the sacred month.’” Tabari VII:19 “They hesitated and were afraid to advance, but then they plucked up courage and agreed to kill as many as they could and to seize what they had with them. Waqid shot an arrow at Amr and killed him. Uthman and al-Hakam surrendered. Then Waqid and his companions took the caravan and the captives back to Allah’s Apostle in Medina. This was the first booty taken by the Companions of Muhammad.”
Ishaq:289 “Our lances drank of Amr’s blood and lit the flame of war.” Tabari VII:20/Ishaq:287 “Abd Allah told his Companions, ‘A fifth of the booty we have taken belongs to the Apostle.’ This was before Allah made surrendering a fifth of the booty taken a requirement.”
Tabari VII:20/Ishaq:288 “The Quraysh said, ‘Muhammad and his Companions have violated the sacred month, shed blood, seized property, and taken men captive.’ The polytheists spread lying slander concerning him, saying, ‘Muhammad claims that he is following obedience to Allah, yet he is the first to violate the holy month and to kill our people.’”
Ishaq:288 “When the Qur’an passage concerning this matter was revealed, and Allah relieved Muslims from their fear and anxiety, Muhammad took possession of the caravan and prisoners. The Quraysh sent him a ransom and the Prophet released the prisoners on payment. When the Qur’an authorization came down to Muhammad, Abd Allah and his Companions were relieved and they became anxious for an additional reward. They said, ‘Will this raid be counted as part of the reward promised to Muslim combatants?’ So Allah sent down this Qur’an: ‘Those who believe and have fought in Allah’s Cause may receive Allah’s mercy.’ Allah made the booty permissible. He divided the loot, awarding four-fifths to the men He had allowed to take it. He gave one-fifth to His Apostle.”
Ishaq:288 “Allah divided the booty stolen from the first caravan after he made spoils permissible. He gave four-fifths to those He had allowed to take it and one-fifth to His Apostle.” Tabari VII:29/Ishaq:289 “The Apostle heard that Abu Sufyan [a Meccan merchant] was coming from Syria with a large caravan containing their money and their merchandise. He was accompanied by only thirty men.” Ishaq:289 “Muhammad summoned the Muslims and said, ‘This is the Quraysh caravan containing their property. Go out and attack it. Perhaps Allah will give it to us as prey.”
Tabari VII:29 “Abu Sufyan and the horsemen of the Quraysh were returning from Syria following the coastal road. When Allah’s Apostle heard about them he called his companions together and told them of the wealth they had with them and the fewness of their numbers. The Muslims set out with no other object than Sufyan and the men with him. They did not think that this raid would be anything other than easy booty.”
Bukhari:V5B59N702 “Allah did not admonish anyone who had not participated in the Ghazwa [raid] of Badr, for in fact, Allah’s Apostle had only gone out in search of the Quraysh caravan so that he could rob it. But Allah arranged for the Muslims and their enemy to meet by surprise. I was at the Aqaba pledge with Allah’s Apostle when we gave our lives in submission, but the Badr battle is more popular amongst the people. I was never stronger or wealthier than I was when I followed the Prophet on a Ghazwa.’”
Tabari VII:29 “They did not suppose that there would be a great battle. Concerning this Allah revealed a Qur’an: Qur’an 8:7 ‘Behold! Allah promised you that one of the two parties would be yours. You wished for the unarmed one, but Allah willed to justify His truth according to His words and to cut off the roots of the unbelievers.’”
Tabari VII:29 “When Abu Sufyan heard that Muhammad’s Companions were on their way to intercept his caravan, he sent a message to the Quraysh. ‘Muhammad is going to attack our caravan, so protect your merchandise.’ When the Quraysh heard this, the people of Mecca hastened to defend their property and protect their men as they were told Muhammad was lying in wait for them.” Ishaq:290 “Some Meccans got up to circumambulate the Ka’aba…. Sitting around the mosque, they wondered why they had allowed this evil rascal to attack their men.”
Ishaq:292 “Setting out in Ramadhan, Muhammad was preceded by two black flags. His companions had seventy camels.” Tabari VII:38 “I have been informed by authorities that Muhammad set out on 3 Ramadhan at the head of 310 of his companions. The war banner of the Messenger was carried by Ali. The banner of the Ansar was carried by Sa’d.”
Ishaq:293/Tabari VII:30 “The prophet marched forward and spent the night near Badr with his Companions. While the Prophet was standing in prayer [asking Allah to help him steal] some Quraysh water-carriers came to the well. Among these was a black slave. Muhammad’s men seized him and brought him to the Messenger’s bivouac. They ordered him to salute Allah’s Apostle. Then they questioned him about Abu Sufyan. When the slave began to tell them about the protecting force, it was unwelcome news, for the only object of their raid was the caravan.” Tabari VII:30 “Meanwhile the Prophet was praying, bowing and prostrating himself, and also seeing and hearing the treatment of the slave. They beat him severely and continued to interrogate him but they found that he had no knowledge of what they were looking for.”
Ishaq:294 “The Apostle was afraid the Ansar would not feel obliged to help him fight without the enemy being the aggressor and attacking in Medina. Sa’d said, ‘We hear and obey. We are experienced in war, trustworthy in combat. Allah will let us show you something that will bring you joy. The Apostle was delighted at Sa’d’s words which greatly encouraged him. Muhammad shouted, ‘It is as if I see the enemy lying prostrate.’”
Tabari VII:32 “When the Quraysh advanced, Muhammad threw dust in the direction of their faces, and Allah put them to flight.… The Meccan [merchant] force and the Prophet’s [pirates] met and Allah gave victory to His Messenger, shamed the unbelievers, and satisfied the Muslims’ thirst for revenge.” Ishaq:297 “When the Apostle saw them he cried, ‘Allah, they called me a liar. Destroy them this morning.’”
Bukhari:V5B59N330/Ishaq:300 “Here is Gabriel holding the rein of a horse and leading the charge. He is equipped with his weapons and ready for the battle. There is dust upon his front teeth.” Bukhari:V5B59N327 “Gabriel came to the Prophet and said, ‘How do you view the warriors of Badr?’ The Prophet said, ‘I see the fighters as the best Muslims.’ On that, Gabriel said, ‘And so are the Angels who are participating in the Badr battle.’”
Tabari VII:55 “Mihaja, the mawla [slave] of Umar [the future Caliph] was struck by an arrow and killed. He was the first Muslim to die.”
Tabari VII:55 “Allah’s Messenger went out to his men and incited them to fight. He promised, ‘Every man may keep all the booty he takes.’ Then Muhammad said, ‘By Allah, if any man fights today and is killed fighting aggressively, going forward and not retreating, Allah will cause him to enter Paradise.’ Umayr, who was holding some dates in his hand and eating them, said, ‘Fine, fine. This is excellent! Nothing stands between me and my entering Paradise except to be killed by these people!’ He threw down the dates, seized his sword, and fought until he was slain.”
Tabari VII:56 “‘Messenger of Allah, what makes the Lord laugh with joy at his servant?’ He replied, ‘When he plunges his hand into the midst of an enemy without armor.’ So Auf took off the coat of mail he was wearing and threw it away. Then he took his sword and fought the enemy until he was killed.”
Ishaq:301 “Muhammad picked up a handful of pebbles and faced the Quraysh. He shouted, ‘May their faces be deformed!’ He threw the pebbles at them and ordered his companions to attack. The foe was routed. Allah killed Quraysh chiefs and caused many of their nobles to be taken captive. While the Muslims were taking prisoners, the Messenger was in his hut.”
Bukhari:V5B59N290 “The Prophet said, ‘The believers who failed to join the Ghazwa of Badr and those who took part in it are not equal in reward.”
Bukhari:V5B59N333 “Az-Zubair said, ‘I attacked him with my spear and pierced his eye. I put my foot over his body to pull the weapon out, but even then I had to use great force. Later on Allah’s Apostle asked me for that spear and I gave it to him.’”
Ishaq:301 “As the Muslims were laying their hands on as many prisoners as they could catch, the Prophet, saw disapproval in the face of Sa’d. He said, ‘Why are you upset by the taking of captives?’ Sa’d replied, ‘This was the first defeat inflicted by Allah on the infidels. Slaughtering the prisoners would have been more pleasing to me than sparing them.’”
Tabari VII:59 “On the day of Badr I passed Umayyah as he was standing with his son Ali, holding his hand. I had with me some coats of mail which I had taken as plunder. Umayyah said, ‘Abd al-Ilah, would you like to take me as a prisoner? I will be more valuable to you as a captive to be ransomed than the coats of mail that you are carrying.’ I said, ‘Yes. Come here then.’ I flung away the armor and bound Umayyah and his son Ali, taking them with me. Muslims encircled us. Then they restrained us physically. One of the Muslims drew his sword and struck Ali in the leg, severing it so that he fell down. Umayyah gave a scream the like of which I have never heard. I said, ‘Save yourself, for there is no escape for your son. By Allah, I cannot save him from these men.’ Then the Muslims hacked Ali to pieces. Abd al-Rahman used to say, ‘May Allah have mercy on Bial [a slave turned Muslim marauder]! I lost my coats of mail, and he deprived me of my captives.’”
Bukhari:V5B59N297 “The Prophet faced the Ka’aba and invoked evil on the Quraysh people.”
Bukhari: V5B59N397 “Allah’s Apostle raised his head after bowing the first Rak’a of the morning prayer. He said, ‘O Allah! Curse so-and-so and so-and-so.’ After he had invoked evil upon them, Allah revealed: ‘Your Lord will send thousands of angels riding upon chargers sweeping down as a form of good tidings to reassure you that victory comes from Him. He will cut off parts of the unbelievers, overthrow them, and turn them back in frustration. For Allah is forgiving and kind.’” [3:124]
Ishaq:303 “A cousin and I mounted a hill from which we could overlook Badr and see who would be defeated, so that we could join in the plundering afterwards. I was pursuing one of the Meccan polytheists in order to smite him, when his head suddenly fell off before my sword touched him. Then I knew that someone other than I had killed him.”
Tabari VII:61 “When the Prophet had finished with his enemy, he gave orders that Abu Jahl should be found among the dead. He said, ‘O Allah, do not let him escape!’ The first man who encountered Abu Jahl yelled out and I made him my mark. When he was within my reach, I attacked him and struck him a blow which severed his foot and half his leg. By Allah, when it flew off I could only compare it to a date-stone which flies out of a crusher when it is struck. Then his son hit me on the shoulder and cut off my arm. It dangled at my side from a piece of skin. The fighting prevented me from reaching him after that. I fought the whole day, dragging my arm behind me. When it began to hurt me, I put my foot on it and stood until I pulled it off.’” Ishaq:304 “Abd Allah bin Mas’ud said, ‘I found Abu Jahl in the throws of death. I put my foot on his neck because he had grabbed me once at Mecca and had hurt me. Then I said, Has Allah disgraced you and put you to shame, O enemy of Allah?’ ‘In what way has he disgraced me?’ he asked. ‘Am I anything more important than a man whom you have killed?’” Bukhari:V5B59N298 “Abu Jahl said, ‘You should not be proud that you have killed me.’”
Ishaq:304/Tabari VII:62 “I cut off Abu Jahl’s head and brought it to the Messenger. ‘O Allah’s Prophet, this is the head of the enemy of Allah.’ Muhammad said, ‘Praise be to Allah.’”
Ishaq:305 “Ukkasha fought until he broke his sword. He came to the Apostle who gave him a wooden cudgel telling him to fight with that. He brandished it and it became a brilliant weapon. Allah gave him victory while he wielded it. He took that weapon with him to every raid he fought with Allah’s Apostle until he was killed in the rebellion. These were his dying words: ‘What do you think about when you kill people? Are these not men just because they are not Muslims?’”
Ishaq:315 “It was so criminal, men could hardly imagine it. Muhammad was ennobled because of the bloody fighting. I swear we shall never lack soldiers, nor army leaders. Driving before us infidels until we subdue them with a halter above their noses and a branding iron. We will drive them to the ends of the earth. We will pursue them on horse and on foot. We will never deviate from fighting in our cause. We will bring upon the infidels the fate of the Ad and Jurhum. Any people that disobey Muhammad will pay for it. If you do not surrender to Islam, then you will live to regret it. You will be shamed in Hell, forced to wear a garment of molten pitch forever!”
Ishaq:310 “A Meccan said, ‘As soon as we were confronted by the raiding party, we turned our backs and they started killing and capturing us at their pleasure. Some of our men turned tail humiliated. Allah smote some of us with pustules from which we died.’” Ishaq:311 “When the Quraysh began to bewail their dead, consumed in sorrow, one said, ‘Do not do this for Muhammad and his companions will rejoice over our misfortune.’”
Ishaq:340 “Surely Badr was one of the world’s great wonders. The roads to death are plain to see. Disobedience causes a people to perish. They became death’s pawns. We had sought their caravan, nothing else. But they came to us and there was no way out. So we thrust our shafts and swung our swords severing their heads. Our swords glittered as they killed. The banner of error was held by Satan. He betrayed the evil ones, those prone to treachery. He led them to death crying, ‘Fear Allah. He is invincible!’ On that day a thousand spirits were mustered on excited white stallions. Allah’s army fought with us. Under our banner, Gabriel attacked and killed them.”
Ishaq:341 “Allah favored His Apostle and humiliated the unbelievers. They were put to shame in captivity and death. The Apostle’s victory was glorious. Its message is plain for all to see. The Lord brought repeated calamities upon the pagans, bringing them under the Apostle’s power. Allah’s angry army smote them with their trusty swords. Many a lusty youngster left the enemy lying prone. Their women wept with burning throats for the dead were lying everywhere. But now they are all in Hell.”
Ishaq:342 “I wonder at foolish men like these who sing frivolously and vainly of the slain at Badr. This was nothing more than an impious and odious crime. Men fought against their brothers, fathers, and sons. Any with discernment and understanding recognize the wrong that was done here.”
Ishaq:344 “I wonder at Allah’s deed. None can defeat Him. Evil ever leads to death. We unsheathed our swords and testified to the unity of Allah, and we proved that His Apostle brought truth. We smote them and they scattered. The impious met death. They became fuel for Hell. All who aren’t Muslims must go there. It will consume them while the Stoker [Allah] increases the heat. They had called Allah’s Apostle a liar. They claimed, ‘You are nothing but a sorcerer.’ So Allah destroyed them.”
Ishaq:348 “They retreated in all directions. They rejected the Qur’an and called Muhammad a liar. But Allah cursed them to make his religion and Apostle victorious. They lay still in death. Their throats were severed. Their foreheads embraced the dust. Their nostrils were defiled with filth. Many a noble, generous man we slew this day. We left them as meat for the hyenas. And later, they shall burn in the fires of Hell.”
Ishaq:349 “The battle will tell the world about us. Distant men will heed our warning. The infidels may cut off my leg, yet I am a Muslim. I will exchange my life for one with virgins fashioned like the most beautiful statues.”
Ishaq:357 “Their leaders were left prostrate. Their heads were sliced off like melons. Many an adversary have I left on the ground to rise in pain, broken and plucked. When the battle was joined I dealt them a vicious blow. Their arteries cried aloud, their blood flowed.”
Ishaq:308 “Muhammad halted on a sandhill and divided the booty Allah had given him. They congratulated him on the victory Allah had granted. But one of the warriors replied, ‘What are you congratulating us about? We only met some bald old women like the sacrificial camels who are hobbled, and we slaughtered them!’ The Apostle smiled because he knew that description fit .”
Tabari VII:81 “The next day I went to the Prophet. He was sitting with Abu Bakr, and they were weeping. I said, ‘O Messenger of Allah, tell me, what has made you weep? If I find cause to weep, I will weep with you, and if not, I will pretend to weep because you are weeping.’ The Prophet said, ‘It is because of the taking of ransoms. It was laid before me that I should punish them instead.’ Allah revealed: ‘It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land.’ After that Allah made booty lawful for them.”
Tabari VII:98 “The Messenger ordered Zayd [the prophet’s former slave turned adoptive son] out on a raid in which he captured a Quraysh caravan led by Abu Sufyan at a watering place in Najd.… A number of their merchants set out with a large amount of silver since this was the main part of their merchandise. They hired a man to guide them along this route. Zayd captured the caravan and its goods but was unable to capture the men. He brought the caravan to the Prophet.” [If this isn’t piracy and terror the words need to be redefined.]
Tabari VII:98 “The reason for this expedition was the Quraysh said, ‘Muhammad has damaged our trade, and sits astride our road. If we stay in Mecca we will consume our capital.’ …The news of the caravan reached the Prophet, as did the information that it contained much wealth and silver vessels. Zayd therefore intercepted it and made himself master of their caravan. The fifth (khums) was twenty thousand dirhams; Allah’s Apostle took it and divided the other four fifths among the members of the raiding party. Furat was taken captive. They said to him. ‘If you accept Islam the Messenger will not kill you.’”
Qur’an 3:150 “Soon We shall strike terror into the hearts of the Infidels, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be in the Fire!”
Ishaq:395 “Muslims, if you listen to the unbelievers you will retreat from the enemy and become losers. Ask Allah for victory and do not retreat, withdrawing from His religion. ‘We will terrorize those who disbelieve. In that way I will help you against them.’”
Qur’an 33:9 “O ye who believe! Remember the Grace of Allah, on you, when there came down an army. But We sent against them a hurricane and forces that ye saw not. Behold! They came on you from above you and from below you, and behold, the eyes became dim and the hearts gaped up to the throats, stupefied with terror, and ye imagined various vain thoughts about Allah!”
Ishaq:461 “Muhammad besieged them for twenty-five nights. When the siege became too severe for them, Allah terrorized them. Then they were told to submit.” [top] [toc] [quotes main]


S Misra - 3/18/2006

From The Holy Koran

IV.89: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

IV.92: And it does not behoove a believer to kill a believer except by mistake, and whoever kills a believer by mistake, he should free a believing slave , and blood-money should be paid to his people unless they remit it as alms; but if he be from a tribe hostile to you and he is a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (suffices), and if he is from a tribe between whom and you there is a covenant, the blood-money should be paid to his people along with the freeing of a believing slave; but he who cannot find (a slave) should fast for two months successively: a penance from Allah, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.


IX. 5-6: Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them.

IV.76: Those who believe fight in the cause of God.

IV.74: Let those who fight in the cause of God who barter the life of this world for that which is to come; for whoever fights on God's path, whether he is killed or triumphs, We will give him a handsome reward.

VIII.39-42: Say to the Infidels: if they desist from their unbelief, what is now past shall be forgiven; but if they return to it, they have already before them the doom of the ancients! Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it God's.



"There may be moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate. There is no difference between Islam and Islamic fundamentalism. At most there is a difference of degree but not of kind."
-- Ibn Warraq, executive director of the Institute for the Secularization of Islamic Society


Perhaps Islam's central documents are call to violence?

Then when the Sacred Months have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (Jews - see V.82) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush.

IV.89 Kill non-believers
V.82 Anti Jewish verses
IX.5 Killing Idolaters

Taliban IX.28 Idolaters are unclean just because they are idolater (YET, Mussalmans regularly go to the rock in the sand and carry out repetitive rituals; sounds like idolatry.)

IX.29 Forcing non-believers to pay tax

The prophet Mohammed (may he rest in peace) once said:
"A cheap rug is more valuable in a man's home than a woman"
-- From the Hadith recorded by (off-site) Sahih Al-Bukhari.

VIII.12 Cut off the fingertips of unbelievers
XLVII.4 Smite the neck of unbelievers
X.4 ; V.10 ; V.86 Severe Punishment for atheists
XXII.19-22 ; LXXII.23, XCVIII.6 Severe Punishment for non-believers
XVII.10 Punishing non-believers of Hereafter
III.91 Punishing for rejecting faith

IV.140 ; VII.36 Non believers go to hell
IV.150-151 Partial Believers go to hell too
LVI.42-43 Sadistic punishments
XVI.106 ; III.86-88 ; III.90 ; IV.137 Punishment for apostates
IX.38-39, XLVIII.16 Threat of punishment for not going to war


III.181 Torture of and disdain for Jews
IV.161 * Jew usurers deserve torment



ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE. IT IS VIOLENT AND THE ABOVE QUOTES ARE JUST A SMALL SAMPLE OF THE VICIOUSNESS OF THE SO-CALLED PROPHET AND HIS WRITINGS. Islam does not respect any other religion but Islam, and not even that since Sunni kill Shiites and Shiites kill Sunni as if it was a wonderful experience.

They moan and complain about the Koran in Guantanamo, but not too long ago, a whole room full of Korans was burnt by Sunni or Shiites in Iraq, and they regularly burn each other's mosques. I guess if you piss on the copy of the other sect, it's alright.


S Misra - 3/17/2006

Hasan, what would Jehovah, the same Jehovah that is supposedly Allah, say about your hatred of Jews, the fathers of your faith? You, Hasan, are a nasty little anti-Semite, a venomous, angry, bitter, stale, illogical, frightened, ignorant, fool who thinks the louder he speaks, the more spittle he lets fly, the more right he must be.


S Misra - 3/17/2006

No one should desecrate a grave. But I have a story for you. After Musslamans tore down Visvanath Temple in Varanasi in India, a huge temple, they left up one gate, on the other side of which they built a mosque of mud. Near the Hindu gate they left up, they planted a grave, pissing a grave upon Hindu sacred land. If I was a Hindu I would be pissed. Never have, in history, Mussalmans ever respected others who were living or their dead, so why do you complain now, when you sowed the wind, you have reaped the whirlwind and your victims are back with the only language you Mussalmans understand, violence. No one is willing to let your evil hordes plunder their nations again.


S Misra - 3/17/2006

OK, Infidelity, name me a nation, other than one or two of the flea bitten Arab tribes of Arabia, which nation in this world was converted by Mussalmans peacefully. India, some of Africa, Indonesia, and any other nation you can think of was converted for a time by force. If they were not converted, it was because Mussalmans tax nonbelievers more heavily and their greed stopped them from converting further. Indeed, it is remarkable how many you could have converted had your religion been peaceful, but your behavior, like the Nazis in Ukraine, eventually convinced all that Islam meant slavery.


S Misra - 3/17/2006

Therefore, I should add, little Hasan, when you pick intellectual life savers, try one that actually is able to think, not silly and smug pontificators like Renard, whoever he is.

By the way, if there was a prize for self-pity and a delusionary and paranoid sense of persecution, you, little Hasan, hanger on of any moth eaten pro-Islamic ninny, would take the cake.


S Misra - 3/17/2006

I don't know who John Renard is but he is hardly scholarly. There is no "Western" or "Eastern" but there is rational and irrational. Since generally you make rather foolish arguments, and have taken to copying and pasting others' thoughts, let me respond to Renard. One, Islam has been imperialistic, brutal, and its Other is everyone who is not a Muslim.

Renard commits a typical error that ignorant and irrational people make, he sets up a straw man and proceeds to knock him down. It doesn't take much intellect to set up a fake argument and knock it down. Islam is violent, it has in the past been a religion that has forced itself on others, brutalized them, humiliated them, enslaved them, burnt their libraries and temples, killed their monks, and installed one dangerous ruler after another. It is not democratic and it has no history of rational thought not dependent upon a slavish following of the Koran.

Islam has crushed its own people under black robed and corrupt mullahs and imams, from Mohammed on down. Islam has crushed people in Africa, Asia, and Europe. If your nation was invaded by Mussalmans, you are guaranteed to be, today, a backward nation.

Islam is an "ism" that demands no thinking, absolute belief with no professed doubt, it demands killing and persecution of nonbelievers. It will one day be looked upon as a backward and brutal force in history.
Because of Islam's lack of value for freedom, its pathological fears, it will fail.

One example of pathological fear is the creating of images of the man Mohammed. You fear it will lead to idolatry just as you fear seeing a woman's ankle or face will give you unclean thoughts that will produce a very unIslamic erection. So, you doodle with geometrics, never having created true art, the human form, the beauty of the Pieta or the Mona Lisa, or the magnificience of classical Buddhist or Greek or Hindu or African or Asian representations of what is much harder to produce, the human form. You doodle on with geometrics. Any obssessive person minoring in elementary math can do that.

Islam is illogical, irrational, and wrong because it is violent and it does not allow for basic human freedoms.


Gary - 3/17/2006

"Hamas's leader-in-exile, Khaled Meshaal:

"We and the Zionists have a date with destiny. If they want a fight, we are ready for it. If they want a war, we are the sons of war. If they want a struggle, we are for it to the end,"

Spoken like a true "peace-loving" Muslim.


Crusade - 3/17/2006

Imprisioment and learning democracy and the Word of God and Jesus

Denmark 100 % Christian


Slater - 3/17/2006

Are you for real?

You want to kill someone for saying that you should be killed for saying something?


hasan hasan - 3/17/2006

I recently heard Islam characterized as the next major threat to "Western" civilization, the new Evil Empire that will succeed Communism. Sounds like a major oversimplification, but could you comment on it?

At the risk of oversimplification in the other direction, I would respond that, alas, every society needs its Evil Empire. When no obvious candidate fills the bill, we will conjure one up in the vain hope that somehow it will make us feel better about ourselves. During the past couple of decades there has been much talk about "resurgent Islam," fueled by such events as the Iranian Revolution, the Palestinian Intifada, and the ascendancy of the Afghan Taliban. Books with titles like The Islamic Bomb: The Nuclear Threat to Israel and the Middle East (1982) raise the specter of some sort of nuclear conspiracy, as though Islam represented a unitary political will intent on world domination. In fact, "Islam" is nothing quite like the various "isms" one can realistically imagine bringing political and economic resources to bear on some global or even regional objective - capitalism, communism, colonialism, imperialism, or - on a smaller scale - Zionism, for example.

On the other side of that coin, neither is "the West" anything like a unified secularist bloc of political, economic, and cultural determination, set adamantly against the real or imagined religio-moral fervor of "the East,".

Still, it is much easier to construe the world as neatly defined opposing forces than to come to terms with the common humanity that underlies all our differences.

Muslims are on the whole just about as susceptible to these kinds of generalizations as non-Muslims, however, and are often co-responsible for perpetuating the sweeping dichotomy. In short, Islam as a religious tradition is in no way a threat to world peace and order. On the contrary, it is as important a force for maintaining peace and order as any other tradition.



Excerpted from 101 Questions and Answers on Islam by John Renard


boreal - 3/17/2006

Take a good look here

http://www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&;P1=1050


Sune - 3/17/2006

To all who doesn't understand what democracy is and make this to a raid to the christian world - STOP IT NOW.

Good information is much better than bad and misinformation. Misinformation that Mr. Laban and his ultramoslem has used in the moslem countries. The only way is out of Denmark - They are not needed here - better is of with the head.


Infidelity - 3/17/2006

Old boy Hasan there, seems to harbor a particular aversion toward semites. The irony of course is, that Hasan is himself a semite ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semite


dufuss - 3/16/2006

A Jew, a Christian and a Muslim are standing at a bus stop. Suddenly the sky breaks, a gleaming column of light descends from the heavens and a booming voice utters holy words ... whereupon the Jew wails "Father!" and crumples to the ground; the Christian cries "Mercy!" and falls to his knees; while the Muslim shouts "Allah Ahkbar!" and beheads the two infidels.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Q) How many Muslims does it take to change a light bulb?
A) The same number that blew it up in the first place.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Q) What did the Muslim say after stubbing his toe?
A) "Death to America!!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Q) How many Muslims does it take to change a light bulb?
A) Ten. One to change the bulb and nine to fire the AK-47's.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Q) Why doesn't the Muslim have any running water at home?
A) He killed the plumber for "occupying" his house.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Q) How many Muslims does it take to change a light bulb?
A) None. Only "god willing" will the bulb ever be changed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Q) Why do Sunni kill Shia and Shia kill Sunni?
A) So once all the infidels are gone, they'll still have somebody to hate.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Q) How many Muslims does it take to change a light bulb?
A) None. Light bulbs are un-Islamic.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Q) Why does it take a Muslim ten hours to drive two kilometers?
A) You could lay 12 roadside bombs any faster?


Infidelity - 3/16/2006

Extend your research a tad further and discover that some nations and peoples converted to Islam not by the sword at all - but rather for fear of being so had they not!


Infidelity - 3/16/2006

"A well known technique in any propaganda war is the spreading of "disinformation" about your enemy. Disinformation is the new postmodern word for lies."

Yes, agreed wholeheartedly. Hasan (the troll) acts consistent with this (again, not in his own words) by working straight from the Nazi/Stalinist playbook, which reads: 'Accuse your enemies of the very things of which you are guilty'.

Any common moron can prove for themselves that what Hasan (the troll) is posting here is utter drivel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_conquest

Heil Mohammed!! (click heals and salute)


High and mighty - 3/16/2006

If he stopped his endless accusations and false rumor-thing, I might listen... but for now, hes just another "flammer" asshole!


boreal - 3/16/2006

Please relax
and give Hassan a chance answer
And read the links under the first Qoran,
Might enlighten you... just a little bit
Yours
boreal


Chad - 3/16/2006

Theres a hell of a difference between the idea, and how its performed: the sign of a total belivesystem failing!
The real problem is islams followers doesn't relate to criticism, and use propaganda as their first choice - as seen during the cartoon conflict, where misinformation spread like wildfire all over the arab world!
So you're right Hasan; but the gun points at yourself... can you relate to that, ot is it just the infidels talking?
Westerners care not for airy fairytales, especially when they disguise as religion: What is written in the quran, and what the world is witnessing, is totally opposite! But you can dream on, living in your scizo-world: we already figured the double meaning out!


Slater - 3/16/2006

>> "One of the most persistent lies repeated by its detractors is that Muslims spread their faith by the sword."

Yes, except this is not a lie, it's a fact. And Islamists prove it every day by threatening and attacking Europeans over a couple of cartoons.


I'll have to repeat myself here:
If you want Islam to be viewed as peaceful, stop being violent!

It's that easy.


boreaL - 3/16/2006

Hello Hassan
Could You pls. tell me about dr. Elmansys wiev on the ORIGIN of the Quran
Yours
boreal


hasan - 3/16/2006

A well known technique in any propaganda war is the spreading of "disinformation" about your enemy. Disinformation is the new postmodern word for lies.

If you repeat the same lies over and over again, listeners' critical thinking skills are numbed; and in the absence of any opposing argument, the lies eventually cannot be differentiated from truth.

Islam has had many enemies over the centuries and still has. One of the most persistent lies repeated by its detractors is that Muslims spread their faith by the sword.

Yet of all mainstream religions, none is more precisely documented as to its origin, revelation, message and teachings. Since its emergence through the Prophet Muhammad and his transmission of its holy book, the history of Islam has been well recorded. From the Prophet's time until today, the Quran has offered guidance and discipline for everyday life. As Islam spread, the lives and teachings of its messengers have also been documented.

As with Judaism and Christianity, the most influential and revered figures are those from the time when the faith was newly revealed; in Islam, these were Muslims who lived in the age of Prophet Muhammad and who embodied the teachings of the Quran as examples to their fellow human beings. Many of their thoughts and deeds were recorded for the benefit of future generations.

To return to the questions of whether the Quran encourages Muslims to spread their faith by force, or whether the Prophet himself set a violent example for Muslims to follow, one has only to consult the source.

The Quran is crystal clear in stating, "There is no compulsion in religion." (Quran 2:256) The commandment is absolute; there are no exceptions. Coercion, compulsion, force -- whatever one chooses to call it -- is forbidden. No other holy book lays down such a clear directive to its adherents.

Believers in the world's largest Muslim country of today, Indonesia, have never in history encountered foreign Muslim soldiers on their soil. The same is true for today's Muslims in Malaysia, China, sub-Saharan Africa, the Americas, Europe, and Turkey. All of these countries or regions were introduced to Islam through other Muslims, not by Muslim armies.

Even in Egypt where the earliest Muslims were mostly Arab soldiers, Islam was diffused slowly throughout the country over more than 400 years. The Egyptians loved Islam because the values it embraced, such as justice, equality, modernity and freedom.

And in Egypt, as well as in Persia, Greater Syria, India, North Africa and Spain, converts freely accepted Islam because it offered comparatively more than other religions of the day.

During those early centuries, people who felt oppressed or restricted by the rigidity of Christian and Jewish traditions, or excluded from the caste system of Hinduism, were attracted by the Islam's de-emphasis on hierarchy. They loved the Islamic teachings that God is One and the Lord of All, that humans can talk to God directly, and that there is no Original Sin Ð every human being is wholly accountable for his/her deeds.

So while it is true that Islam spread in some places with the speed of a bullet, no literal bullets have been involved. The whole concept of "convert or die" is utterly foreign and reprehensible to authentic Islamic beliefs and conduct. And the Quran itself further reinforces the sanctity of all human lives in saying that to kill another person is as evil as killing the entire human race.

Muslims do not blame any religion for the atrocities committed by those claiming to be its adherents.

Thus, Muslims do not blame Judaism itself for injustices committed by Jews against Palestinians. Nor do they blame Christianity per se for the crimes committed by Church-sanctioned medieval Crusades; for atrocities committed during the conquest of Spain by Christian armies and the subsequent persecution and expulsion of Muslims; nor for the horrors of the Inquisition, the St. BartholomewÕs Day Massacre, or any number of similar tragedies. All three faiths, rooted in Abrahamic tradition, teach similar values of non-violence, justice and equality. Those who take up the "cause" of any faith through violent means are in effect blasphemers of it.

The earliest Muslims in Arabia were persecuted and subjected to torture. They fled for their lives from Mecca to Medina, but their pagan enemies followed, determined to annihilate them. Then and only then, did Muslims take up arms in self-defense. This was no a religious war, however, but rather a forced political conflict in which the rich and powerful of 6th-century AD Arabia perceived their status being challenged. The MuslimsÕ aim was not to convert their pagan countrymen, but to defend themselves; similarly, the anti-Muslim pagans were not interested in suppressing Islam itself, but in subjugating its believers through political power.

When the Prophet Muhammad and his followers returned peacefully to Mecca in triumph, he granted pardon to the same people who had persecuted and waged war against him and his fellow Muslims.

This humane and generous behavior reflected the teaching of many Quranic verses which stress the importance of courtesy, politeness and civility, even where there has been severe conflict: "And the true servants of the God of Mercy are those who walk upon the earth humbly; and when the ignorant address them, reply ÔPeaceÕ; and they pass the night praying to their Lord, prostrating and standing." (Quran 25:63 - 64)

By:Dr. Mohamed Elmasry


ngotienthang - 3/16/2006

development future for network ATM


S Misra - 3/16/2006

Why in heaven's name are you soliciting the opinion of an anti-Semetic, homophobic, terrorist supporting (check his previous posts) idiot who cannot think in a remotely logical fashion?


S Misra - 3/15/2006

Hasan, at least it is only dead people. Muslims make it a point to kill living innocent people. A dead body is nothing, just a shell, soon to be dust. But true Moslems behead peace activists, murder innocents, and otherwise prove themselves loyal thugs of the Koran.


S Misra - 3/15/2006

When you use violence, it is a failure of the intellect and the imagination. If you don't use your mind rationally, you belong to a cult. The Koran uses violence and so it is a cult of death.


Franz - 3/15/2006

Lets reverse the question: why doesn't denmark, and other western countries, have the same HUGE problems with all other immigrants?
Why is the muslims so heavely represented in the wrong statistics?
Why does muslims always seem to create problems for the people in the countries that they settle in?
What is it with muslims, that make them stir up trouble whereever they go?

Their religion???


Bent - 3/15/2006

The only muslims who doesn't feel welcome in denmark, are ultrareligious fuck-ups, and the radical hate-imams... and they can perish for all that I care! But the rest are very welcome in denmark, and has rights you see no where else on the planet: The danish stat, by example, pays most muslim wifes the worlds highest welfare to do nothing. They have free education and support for their religious schools, they can build mosques and graceyards as that see fit... You know, Hasan, you just sorry you dont live here! Where do you live, by the way, Tora Bora?!


delbert - 3/15/2006

peace with moslems.i dont think so.they love death we love life.moslems hate the west. why do these same moslems desert their own moslem lands which were stolen terrorised & brutally beaten off ancient civilisations that were more advanced than many present arab lands riding on the devils black gold.perhaps moslems are fifth columists who want to enslave westerners as they did africans & are still murdering black african moslems in darfur sudan ,southern sudan & in other countries.moslems hate jews so moslems are the most racist cult on earth.they even hide in hoods copied from the kkk.just look at the cowardly arabs in israel.israel is too soft & so is the west.no moslem prisoners should ever be taken.why imprison moslems.help them on their way out of our solar system.


Bud - 3/15/2006

The cult of death - or the religion of peace???


Fred - 3/15/2006

Fuck of Hasan: This happens to christian and jewish graves as well in denmark (get your facts straight you idiot) - you know, braindead people are everywhere, and you as hell are surely one!


Boreal - 3/14/2006

Could the REAL REASON for the outrage be fear,among the powerfull clericy, of a beginning reformation of Islam ?
The outrage points that way... I think.
Reformation in some way has been under way in at least 80 years. Some died trying.
How long can one expect young, well trained and educated muslim scolars will not use their normal scientific and academic methods on the Quran also?. Why only using these methods on the job in the "lab" ?
Thats why the two links , can be found under Qoran above, is so very important.
Thats is a torpedo, not against muslim traditions og understanding of whats IN the Quran, but at the legimity and "autencity" of the Quran itself.


boreal - 3/14/2006

Hello you 2
Is it the 2 german scolars you are refering to ? Or the canadian professor.
Or is maybe some kind of Zionist conspiracy that laid the old Qurans to rest (in peace) in Sana ?
A little more specific pls.
Yours


hasan - 3/14/2006

The site is clearly mastered by a jewish extremist. DO YOU BELIEVE THE VIEWS OF AN EXTREMIST JEW OR A NEUTRAL PERSON. THE CHOICE IS YOURS.

example: David Ben-Ariel, a Christian-Zionist, has a God-given love for the Jews and the nation of Israel.


Check out the website and you'll find out. I normally avoid jewish extremists. Moderates are ok but extremists are plain devilish and i try to avoid devils.


hasan - 3/14/2006

That's garbage in and garbage out. This is what you'll find at

http://www.pushhamburger.com

Before reaching a conclusion to an article please go through all the material posted by the guy. He's purely a pshychopath and you'll find many such hillucinating yankees on the web. If you read all such crap you're wasting way too much time. Just go through his website and you'll see.


hasan - 3/14/2006

Anders Hansen, a spokesman for the local police, said vandals had pushed over headstones, smashing several into pieces, at the cemetery in Esbjerg.

Esbjerg is Denmark's fifth biggest city and is 250km west of the capital, Copenhagen.

"We don't know who did this," Hansen said, adding the attack probably happened late on Saturday or early on Sunday.

The cemetery has both Christian and Muslim graves, but only the Muslim graves were desecrated, he said.

Racism, Religious hatred and intolerence to minorities. Danes should be ashamed of themselves. First they pick the weakest muslim minority in their country and now they are after the Dead. Your level has reached its lowest...


Mark Linham - 3/13/2006

S Misra:

Very well said!

A major highlight of your last post I'd like to address:

Google should have told China that its business model includes (if it did (it should)) freedom of, and to, information, and that they are not in business to help them to murder their dissidents. If this meant Google's exclusion from China, their attitude should have been: "So be it!"

I completely agree: Entirely too many (very) bad deals have been made with dictators, and other sundry thugs, over the years by Western, or democratic, governments (and corporations - like Google).

It doesn't appear that our "Most Favored" "trading partner" is showing any interest whatsoever in mending its ways concerning human rights.
It's just getting richer and more powerful - but without the moral commitment to freedom that was the historical precursor to the West's prosperity.



boreal - 3/13/2006

Hi Hassen
Your opinion pls. on the subjects mentioned in Quran. Belov this thread
The 2 links if You please
k.r.
boreal


PBUH - 3/13/2006

You know - the only nazilike thing in this, is the backwardedness of your religion and the reaction it produces...
and by the way; all the brainwashed dudes surfing the net, promoting their minority complex: try reading a book for once, not that holy medieval warmanual of yours!


S Misra - 3/13/2006

Hasan

Hasan, you will lose like your namesake. Who was the loser Hasan?


Hasan (häsän´) , c.625—c.669; son of Ali and Fatima (daughter of Muhammad the Prophet). When Ali was killed in 661, Hasan became caliph, but he was not strong enough to withstand the threat of arms of the Umayyads and under pressure abdicated in favor of Muawiya. He retired to Medina and died, reputedly of poison. His more active brother, Husein, took up the family cause. The Shiites believe that Hasan was murdered by the Umayyads and venerate him as a martyr.

WELL, Hasan, like Hasan, you are doomed.


S Misra - 3/13/2006

Some of the most racist people are Arabs. The mistreatment of non-Arabs by Arabs in Saudi Arabia, home of the idol rock and the idol city to which every Mussalman must journey once in their hollow lives, is known to all. The mistreatment of non-Arabs by Arabs is a given in all Arab states. You also value whiter skin more than darker. Pakistanis killed Bengali Moslems because, in part, they were darker and shorter. The anti-racist movement started in a big way in the United States, with abolitionists and finally with Martin Luther King, and before that by a non-Moslem, Mohandas Karamchand (Mahatma) Gandhi. Arabs and other Mussalmans are nowhere in the civil rights movement. Racism is only one problem. You Muslims are also woman-fearers and woman-haters. You treat your women like property. In many Arab and Muslim lands, they cannot vote, cannot leave the home unescorted, are beaten if they show ankles, cannot vote, cannot become elected representatives (of course, neither can Mussalman men in most Moslem backwater states). Also, your "nations," many of which are nothing but colonial creations, have no religious toleration. Forget that, you teach hate of any other religion. You hate homosexuals. Moslems enslave Christians in Africa. And, of course, every innocent human being is a potential murder victim of the truly faithful. Hasan, you are a wishful thinker, though what you write is not so much thinking as it is vomiting.


S Misra - 3/13/2006

The cold war is not between Denmark and the Moslem world, actually the Sunni World and the Shiite World. The war is between one side, including Europe, America, Canada, India, parts of Africa, Latin America, Australia, New Zealand, Israel, Russia, and any other nation who has experienced Islam at close quarters, and the so-called Moslem world. Remember the last cold war. That is your future. By the way, to the list you can add the leadership of every Arab oil state.


boreal - 3/13/2006

It`s remarkable how little is to be found on the net about this subject
But something can be found
http://www.pushhamburger.com/morenews13.htm
http://www.muslimedia.com/archives/features99/orientalist.htm
Maybe we are seeing kind of fundament to an islamic "reformation"
And ... still.. prof. Rippin os a person knowing abour this.
Pulling the teeth out of Islamistists


Slater - 3/13/2006

Why do you insist on making yourself look like a complete retard?

If Muslims don't want this war, then they shouldn't start it. We have nothing to do with the violence - that's all muslim doing.

If they DO want the war, I'll be happy to see them batter themselves against the walls of Fort Europa and be wiped out.


hasan - 3/13/2006

With Prime Minister like Rasmussen and Queen like Margrethe it is evident that the notorious KKK has found a new breeding ground in the form of Denmark. To put an icing we have the extremist Peoples Party. Welcome to Nazimark!

If this cartoon issue is not resolved it may result in another cold war between Denmark and Muslim Countries. Do'nt think anyone else would be standing by denmark in the hour of need.


boreal - 3/13/2006

Hello canadians
Are you aware of the fact that you have an expert in Canada, prof. Andrew Rippin, Uni. of Victoria.
He might be willing to tell ypu abouy the Sana Quran fragments
Verry interesting.
Boreal


dufuss - 3/12/2006

Even when arab/muslems get what they want they turn around and blame somebody !!!!1

Check this -> http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/D474D0DD-4235-49B2-91AE-14DF889B2EB2.htm

first they were complaining the US was opposing Hamas. now they are complaining the US is was supporting Hamas. AHAHAHAHA!!!


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/12/2006

Hasan,

There are simply too many points worthy of comment embedded in this article, for me to reply in the space available. That is to say, there is ten times as much text I could type in response to whole of this article, as there is in the article itself!

So unless you like to read alot, please select a major point expressed in this article that reflects your thinking and I will gladly respond. It is optional whether you choose to offer your own words, or quote the author's text.

thx


hasan - 3/12/2006

Recently, when a Danish newspaper published cartoons offensive to Muslims, Muslim protests met claims that our Western democracies had to uphold the sacred principle of free speech. Under no circumstances could we Westerners be expected to give up that important right simply because others objected to being criticized or insulted.

But wait a moment. Don't our Western democracies ban racial criticisms and insults? What happens to our sacred principles and rights then?

Indeed, even as the debate over the Danish cartoons was under way, an anti-Western Muslim in Britain was sentenced inter alia to 21 months imprisonment for allegedly inciting racial hatred against us Westerners.

And now in the United States and Australia, even speech favoring alleged Islamic enemies can be punished. So what are we to conclude -- that it is OK to disparage people for their religion, but not for their politics or race?

One wonders how educated Muslims view this contorted logic, particularly since it is contradicted by the brutally racist conduct of U.S. and British soldiers in Iraq.

As for the limp-wristed apologies for that conduct coming out of London and Washington, we all know that, if not for the incriminating videos and photos, those atrocities would have remained unpunished. Indeed, it is quite likely they would still be continuing.

In Vietnam, even worse atrocities continued happily for 10 years without any of our governments or media getting very disturbed. Racial contempt for occupied peoples is buried deep in the psyche of the Western soldier.

But getting back to the elevated world of what we in the West say rather than what we do -- the reason we oppose, at least in principle, racial insults is that race is an important part of our identity. We have a long history of racial brutalities, hatreds, discriminations toward each other. So today we have no choice but to try to put a lid on remarks that try to inflame or justify them.

Now turn to Muslim societies. For them religion rather than race is more important for identity. One reason is that they have a powerful religion -- Islam -- that provides a seemingly coherent code of both spiritual and temporal conduct. The global spread of Islam is one result. True, there are factional differences -- Shiite versus Sunni, for example. Even so, all Muslims accept that there is one source of ultimate truth (Mecca) -- something that cannot be said of our fractious Western religions.

The remarkable way Muslims manage to sublimate racial differences for the sake of religion is one result. The sight of millions of Muslims from all nations, rich and poor, all clad in identical white robes, all living and praying together for days on end to complete their Hajj obligations at Mecca, is proof. Could any of our Western religions claim to overcome racial differences as easily?

In short, while we in the West, and Japan, still cling to the tribalistic concept of race as the basis for identity, and are sensitive to any criticisms in this area, the Muslim peoples have moved on to the concept of religion as the basis of identity and are equally, if not more, sensitive to criticisms in this area.

At the very least, to ridicule Muslims for their sensitivity to religious insults while we busily jail people in our own societies for racial insults is not a very impressive example of our allegedly superior Western values in action. But the chances of this penetrating the closed, ethnocentric minds of our anti-Muslim pundits is close to zero, I am afraid.

The same biases pollute our media. Islamic militants fighting to rid their country of Western occupation armies are automatically denounced as "terrorists" (even if not too many years ago they were embraced as "freedom fighters" when they opposed Soviet occupying forces). Those willing to sacrifice their lives in the process are denigrated as deranged, cowardly, fanatical.

Nazi Germany in its efforts to suppress guerrilla and resistance forces in occupied territories would have used such vocabulary proudly.

True, the U.S. says it wants democracy for the Muslim peoples, yet it imposes bans whenever fair elections return or threaten to return Islamic movements it does not like -- Algeria, Iran and now Palestine. Meanwhile it retains close links with regimes that it likes but which refuse elections. It is like American industrialist Henry Ford saying his customers could have any color car they wanted, provided it was black.

The Islamic peoples are not fools. How much longer do we expect them to put up with this kind of self-serving nonsense?

Following the Hamas victory in the recent Palestine elections, we were treated to endless media warnings about the victory of a terrorist organization calling for the destruction of the Israeli state. The allegedly impartial BBC was as guilty as most. Soon afterward, though, the same BBC did give us an impartial documentary that made it clear that Hamas was the only political force offering concerned and non-corrupt government for the Palestinian people, and that its anti-Israel attitude owed much to Israeli defiance of U.N. resolutions condemning takeovers of Palestinian territory and the expulsions of Palestinian people.

More than anything else, it is this inability to realize cause and effect -- that if people lose their rights and their territory by force then they have no alternative but to retaliate with force -- that underlies Muslim anger against the West.

If I were to exercise my right of free speech and suggest that maybe use of force is justified in freedom-loving Australia, I would be jailed, to the applause of the very people who demand the right to insult and use force against Muslims. How hypocritical can you get?



Gregory Clark is vice president of Akita International University, Japan.


hasan - 3/12/2006

What happened in spain should be an eye opener to all who points finger at islam. You can point fingers to muslims who swayed from their religion but you cannot find fault with islam.

Muslims ruled spain and yet remained in minority. Had they used force the whole of spain would have been converted. The use of force is what you see by the Allied forces against muslims and Danish Army is part of such BLOODY act!


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/12/2006

Here's a hint at other special provisions islamists will come to expect:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story/0,,1728714,00.html

"The Islamic hour, by contrast, was one in a string of demands tabled by a group close to the Muslim Brotherhood. Other proposals included the censorship of school text books."


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/11/2006

I hoarded some more Danish lager yesterday.

I'm having trouble finding detailed reporting on the conference however,

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,18424653%255E1702,00.html

... but did witness some TV news footage where one of the muslim attendees stated orally that he DEMANDED an apology and DEMANDED respect for islam. A childish display.

He also DEMANDED that laws should be passed. That'd be the "thin edge of the wedge". Pass those laws and DEMANDS for more follow, under threat of penalties again.

So I support the "BUYCOTT"!


S Misra - 3/11/2006

The funny thing is that in the Old Testament, when the Jews were leaving Egypt, or so they say, they were wandering through the desert and really, really wanted a place to pray. God said just put together some uncut rocks, have a fire, sacrifice, then when all is done,take the alter apart. The Jews were not happy about this, so God finally gives them a really, really detailed way of putting together a tabernacle, the most inside, the holy of holies, was empty. God has a sense of humor. Likewise, it is amusing that for such idol breakers, Muslims just have to swim upstream to spritually spawn at the rock in the desert. Just like salmon, if they die there, they consider it especially holy. This behavior they share with Hindus and the Ganges. Nobody wants to do the hardest thing, serve their fellow human beings, be kind, be humble, and do not be violent, if you have to convert others, do so by your gentleness and logic, not force. That's too hard.


S Misra - 3/11/2006

Remember to keep buying Danish, and buying products from all other countries that have published the cartoons.


Mark Linham - 3/11/2006

At the risk of sounding nihilistic..

Since such rottenness is often called "righteous", there is often a great deal of good in what is called the "unrighteous".

Sssshhhhh! Be very quiet, and don't let this get out! You just DON'T KNOW what this might lead to!


Gary - 3/11/2006

Quote: "Just today, a Quaker, a member of a nonviolent group serving the Iraqi poor, was killed by his Koran reading, true to the spirit of Islam kidnappers."

And to add to the hypocrisy of this maniac religion, Fox and his colleagues were kidnapped by a group calling itself, "Swords of Righteousness Brigades "

Righteousness indeed!!!


S Misra - 3/10/2006

Anyone has the right to insult any religion whatsoever. People like you just don't get it. Now, it would be nice if the argument went beyond an insult into analysis, but even that is considered an insult by Muslims. In short, no one can say anything against you. You even kill people from other Moslem sects, so you even kill for theological differences.

By the way, it is not just Jews who died in the Holocaust. Somewhere between 6 and 12 million other people were murdered, including Roma (Gypsies), mixed-race people with a parent from (Moslem) northern Africa, Slavs, Catholics, believers in nonviolence (7 Christian conscientious objectors), and a variety of political prisoners. Nazis intended on murdering or enslaving all non so-called Aryans. Hasan, that includes you. But of course, your knowledge of any history, including your own, is rather poor. By attacking the Holocaust, you show your truly ignorant and evil nature, because you deny the suffering of 12-18 million innocents in the greatest and only industrial and organized mass murder in the history of humanity. You insult all victims of that evil regime. How would you like it if your sister was raped, and someone stood by and denied it despite all evidence?


S Misra - 3/10/2006

Hasan, you take whining and poor history to an art form. Your Muslim nations are saddled with dictators because you have had such monsters from the time of and including the so-called prophet. You have become accustomed to dictatorships who manipulate your ignorant people to control them. Your own rich squander their wealth, do little to support the poor, and even in that shining land of holy sand and rock, Saudi Arabia, can't even protect the pilgrims who participate in those repetitive rituals. What will industrial countries do when the oil gets low? Alternative fuels and energy sources. You underestimate the creativity of human beings. Most of the oil nations of the middle East are one resource nations, and such nations, in the long recorded history of humanity, always run out of steam. You have no universities worth mentioning and no freedoms. Your brightest leave your nations to study and work. You are a blip on the historical screen. You cannot rise as long as you have Islam, as long as you hate your women enough and don't trust them enough to give them respect, let alone rights, and as long as your views on history are not analytical but whiney. My suggestion to you, give up violence, give up hatred of women, give up Islam, give up dictatorship, apologize to the peoples you have plundered everywhere from Africa to India and beyond, and join the rational and free people of the world.

But, my sense is that your religion will keep you as oppressed as you kept others, and it will always recommend to you violence. By the way, you hate each other. You hate the innocent. Just today, a Quaker, a member of a nonviolent group serving the Iraqi poor, was killed by his Koran reading, true to the spirit of Islam kidnappers. Why don't you just keep blowing up each other's mosques and burning each other's Korans and kidnapping and killing each other's clerics, shooting each other, and hating each other, and leave civilized people alone.

Such hate comes from somewhere, and that somewhere is the book, the Koran. Read it. I have. It is as utterly false as the caste system, as Zeus, as the Aztec god that demanded the blood of human sacrifice to be satisfied. One day, Islam will be read about and people will wonder, as they do now, how anyone could believe in such a violent and merciless faith.


Mark Linham - 3/10/2006

Hasan,

There are no overwhelmingly agreed upon tradable values you're alluding to here, if I understand you correctly - and I think I do.

Yes we want oil, which is cheap to Muslim homelands (also cheap to my great Father of Destruction, the Great Satan to whom I pledge allegiance, The United States of America), but for my part, if that oil must be purchased at the expense of Western culture and values, or at the expense of allowing unfettered lawless behavior on your part, in *our* (Western) countries, then keep your goddamn oil (and I know I'm far from alone in this viewpoint).

Ulimately, we *already* have the technology to convert to energy alternatives. The switch is already beginning, and as geopolitical pressures increase, that changeover will accellerate.


S Misra - 3/10/2006

Going out to kill someone is not the same as defending yourself and in the process the aggressor is hurt or killed.

I, for example, have been trained in nonaversive physical management, which one must do with people with a variety of mental disabilities who are also aggressive or self injurious. In the process, you cannot hurt them and cannot allow yourself to be hurt, but, again, they are not carrying bombs. For the kind of people who kill indiscriminantly, to save lives, you may have to injure or kill them, in that crisis situation. But one must also work to avoid crises by upholding common morality. One cannot support dictators by selling them arms, or by providing them, as Google does in China, means to censor people and even to expose them to prosecution by that criminal regime. This, the support of rights, we have not done enough, and then we are stuck with the evil it produces, such as Hussain, the Taliban, and others, which too often we have supported to achieve a short sighted aim.


Gary - 3/10/2006

Quote: "Shameless europeans"

What a joke! Tell me then Hasan, why do your "Muslim Brothers" do business with these and other shameless infidels? What will they do when alternate energy sources are developed to replace oil? Right now you rank the status of a "necessary evil", which modern technology will replace, making your stinking oil quite useless to us infidels. Alahu Akbar!


Singer - 3/10/2006

Please hasan, stop getting your facts from a gumball machine...


Bud - 3/10/2006

Hasan - denmark is a eksporter of oil... and the rest of the crab your writing, is just as wrong too!
Get a life - or maybe a new religion!?


hasan - 3/10/2006

France's president, Jacques Chirac recently went to saudi arabia to seek economic gains for france. Yet another european who goes after muslim money and resources even when they mull and marooning the local muslim population in france. Yet they are shameless in going to muslims for their money. In the wake of recent Oil price hike many countries including the likes of UK, Germany, Denmark, Holland, Norway and the father of all destruction the U.S are now focussing on encashing these oil producing gulf countries to help rejuvenate their staggering economies.

Shameless europeans then go on objecting to muslims living in european countries. In reality, muslim countries pay for their muslim brothers living in these european countries.

We pay far more then we get in return. A huge price...


sage - 3/9/2006

i just wont konw why they were figting


Bent - 3/9/2006

No, this is huge! Normally the same 10 people would hijack the agenda... 700 is a revolution!
Anyway, I think they have passed a 1000 some time ago!


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 3/9/2006

I don't mean to sound negative, but if only 700 Muslims in free Denmark could stand up for this relgion of terror, can we blame their counterparts in the Muslim world?

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/811


anti-islam - 3/9/2006

hopefully the last moslem fool will be gone soon


Infidelity - 3/8/2006

Watched two vids for Wafa.

I can think of few things in life funnier than watching religious zealots (in this case the muslim variety) attempting to argue/debate rationally!

Thanks for the link.


Acer laptops - 3/8/2006

i like this one...keep it up


Acer laptops - 3/8/2006

i like this one...keep it up


Mark Linham - 3/7/2006

Hear hear, S Misra!

I agree with just about everything you just said, except that I can't really and truly *love* my enemies. I think I would be lying if I said I did.

However, if we can manage to have/establish free societies - and universally, not just in Western Europe and the United States - you, I, and others can, nevertheless, peacefully coexist with those who may seem to be our enemies. Because in a free society - and *only* in a free society, they can go their ways and not interfere with us, and we can go our ways, and not interfere with them.

Allow me to digress:

The above presupposes that "freedom" be defined primarily - if not exclusively - in terms of individual rights, and not any form of collective "rights". While it is true that we possess great strength in numbers, and that some rights indeed are collective in nature (such as air, water, roads, national parks, etc), if we lose sight of the welfare of the smallest minority, namely, that of the individual, we've lost our whole reason for political accomplishment; since the welfare of the group is best indicated by how well it treats its individual members.

So, if say, a Muslim wants to revere Allah and his prophet, and in unctuous devotion mortify his own flesh in the name of the same, I have no interest in stopping him. By this same token (and I know you agree already), he has no right to include even one unwilling other person in his madness.

So to return to the topic: No, I don't love him, but I would not kill him if he isn't trying to do that to me or anyone else.


Bent - 3/7/2006

Just search "Wafa" when you enter the page, and the link doesnt show up! Its essential listening!


Cheers...and peace to ya'll!


Bent - 3/7/2006

www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&;P1=1050


Bent - 3/7/2006

http://www.memritv.org/
search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=1050


Bent - 3/7/2006


http://www.muslimwakeup.com/main/archives/2006/03/the_rage_game_r.php#more

Or here:

http://www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&;P1=1050


BMC - 3/7/2006

Sheesh. All this fuss and bluster about caricatures of the last prophet (pizza be upon him) and all along there's been another (and hopefully the "last" this time!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith%2C_Jr.


Mark Linham - 3/5/2006

Sounds good.. I just had some red wine! :)


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/5/2006

Thanks for that clarification. I'll now drink a "Faxe Amber" (Danish lager beer) on your behalf. ;)


Mark Linham - 3/5/2006

Addendum:

"but [I] still need to clarify whether:

~ 'threatening others with death" is more/less evil than utterances which "caused actual demonstrable and specific harm to one's reputation or livelihood'"

Usually an actual death threat would be *more* evil - in addition to being properly *criminal*, and punishable under the law - relative to a libel or slander, which is something more suitable to a civil litigation with monetary damages.


Mark Linham - 3/5/2006

Infidel:

You raise some very good questions that point to the need for greater clarification of what I've said.

With regard to my views on the scope of protected free speech:

1) My view of legally permissible offensive speech is that it permits virtually anything, except libel and slander. However, it is neither possible, nor desirable, nor permissible to stop libel and slander head on. This libel and slander, rather than being suppressed my brute force, must be dealt with in a court of law, and then only if demonstrable actual and specific harm is done by the speech in question to either one's reputation or livelihood.

also:

2) My view of legally permissible offensive speech is that it permits virtually anything, except *credible* threats of actual physical violence. This means I can, probably without any consequence say "I'm gonna kill you", as long as you have - or perceive - no believable reason to think that I really, literally, mean that.
If, however, I say that in a context where I have a record of demonstrated homicidal tendencies and actions, and have thus issued a truly credible threat against you, or have in some other context stated this in a way that makes the threat literally credible, I have then violated your rights, just as surely as if I had actually, already, performed the deed itself. Because now, you must put your life on hold - at least partly. You must, in this second case, take reasonably supposed defensive actions to protect your life, your family, loved ones, property, against the threat. I have in this second case, cost you dearly. And no one, regardless of the claimed reason, should ever be able to do that to you, or anyone else; at least not without suffering severe, and probably fatal, reprisals for having done so.

In summation, therefore, actual death threats are truly an exception - and a profoundly necessary one - which makes the practice of free speech otherwise possible.
Death threats are not permissible free speech. Or as someone I greatly respect and admire once put it (and I paraphrase): If blasphemy is the issue, then those who issue death threats are committing blasphemy against the sanctity of life.




Proud to be an Infidel - 3/5/2006

Here's a refreshing way of looking at things:

http://humanist.toronto.on.ca/ImagineNoHeaven.html


Mark Linham - 3/5/2006

Don't worry. I wouldn't shoot you. It is not my way.

Moreover, I am aware of the existence of reasonable Muslims - even liberal ones - even *radical* ones! So, I will here reaffirm that my animus is not directed against them.

All that is required of *all* of us is that we repudiate the initiation of force against one another. Within this framework, we may criticize - or even ridicule and offend - each other to our hearts' content(s), if we so choose, and it injures none of us.


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/5/2006

At the risk of splitting hairs .... ;)

Unless I read this incorrectly, the implication in point #1 is that all forms of speech ought to be free and unfettered "no matter how offensive the speaker is/was perceived to be". Moreover, utterances "that [have] caused actual demonstrable and specific harm to one's reputation or livelihood" constitute "truly evil speech" to which one needn't "resort to death threats".

I'm neither agreeing/disagreeing with the body of your arguments, but need to point out you propose "DEATH only to those who *start* the ugly business of threatening others with death", but still need to clarify whether:

~ "threatening others with death" is more/less evil than utterances which "caused actual demonstrable and specific harm to one's reputation or livelihood"
~ "threatening others with death" is protected as free speech under the clause "no matter how offensive the speaker is/was perceived to be"
~ "DEATH only to those who *start* the ugly business of threatening others with death" is exempt from "we don't have to resort to death threats" in response to "truly evil speech"

Note we refer here only to the utterance of death threats, not their execution (pun intended!)


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/5/2006

Notwithstanding your passionate views about muslim militancy, you've not distanced yourself from the infantile logical error the 'poem' commits.

It is neither objective, or true that: all muslims == muslim militants


p.s. Take me outside and shoot me the day I become "politically correct" ... *yech*


Mark Linham - 3/5/2006

Corrections, and annotations:

With regard to the last part of section one, in the above post which this answers, a principled defense of free speech - as I've said elsewhere on this page - must include the protection of the speech of those who offend our religions, sense of propriety, sensibilities, or that is "obscene", or whatever. But it also must include the protection of the speech of those who are not telling the truth (such as Holocaust deniers). As a purely practical matter, we cannot discover the truth about any given thing - or about the various and sundry people themselves who hold to various doctrines, good, bad, and ugly - unless there is this kind of complete free-reign for free exression.
If another has told a lie about something, the solution is not to forcibly ban the speech of the liar, but to use one's own rights to freedom of speech to expose him, and his nonsense, for what it indeed is.

And if someone has told a lie about one's self that has caused actual demonstrable and specific harm to one's reputation or livelihood, we in the West have a well developed civil litigation system that enables one to defend one's self against libel and slander, and to recover monetary damages from the offender in a court of law. Even in this most eggregious case of truly evil speech - we don't have to resort to death threats, or the force of mindless brutes.

In a truly free society, if someone is offended, for either good reasons, or not, by what someone else has in effect or explicitly said, one is free to either ignore said person(s), and refuse to ever associate with him/her. If one is somehow forcibly prevented from avoiding the offensive person or propaganda, we are then dealing with something that, more rightly, is categorizable as a physical assault, and not legally protectable free speech.

Finally:

With regard to section two, in the previous post here, I meant (more fully) to say that we all must thoroughtly understand - AND BEGIN ACTING ACCORDINGLY - or risk losing our freedom and lives...

We must ACT according to what we know, or can rationally discover to be true, or no human values are possible, including life and liberty.


Mark Linham - 3/5/2006

I've come across two things in some of the posts to this page that are disturbing to me and deserve comment:

1) Different people find different things offensive - virtually a truism. But some, in so doing, have resorted to arbitrary hair-splitting regarding what is legally permissible, though offensive speech, and other speech that (the implication goes), is too "blasphemous", or whatever, to be allowed.
This represents a crack in the foundation - as it were - of Westerners' commitment to freedom, and free speech. And as such is a danger to life and liberty. This is a failure on the part of some of us here to recognize that a defense of principle that respects no persons, is crucial - indeed, the key ingredient - to advancing a revival of free thought.
Principle, not whims or personal preferences: A revival of which is very much needed, if we all are to maintain the delicate mechanisms that make the rational discovery of the truth (whatever that may be, in any given context) possible. And it is upon this that our very survival as human beings depends.

You can't have it both ways, people. If you propose, say, that burning any country's flag is not a form of legitimate free speech, then upon what ground do you stand when attempting to defend infidel blasphemers and idolators? Likewise, if you want to uphold religious dogma as something exempt from criticism, you are not promoting religious tolerance and diversity and respect among people, but rather a *dominating* (and therefore, most disrespectful) position over others, for the adherents to that dogma.


2) Another potentially fatal error some here commit, similar in structure to the one discussed above, is their failure to focus upon the essential matter at issue, here:

The issue is that initiatory *force* is being, and has been, threatened and carried out against others who have merely spoken, in some way or another, against a religion.
Once this is done, no matter how offensive the speaker is/was perceived to be, the only relevant issue then is that the threatener of force has committed a crime, and has therefore forfeited his right to any respect, or consideration as a human being, and properly understood, has invited destruction only upon himself.

It is about this last thing, especially, that there must be no failure to recognize the issue at hand, or what the issue holds at stake. Therefore, there can, and must be, be no apologies to anyone - especially not to religious nuts of any kind, or any repudiation of principle, or even the slightest compromise about this.. ever!
Politically-correct bullshit BE GOD-DAMNED!

DEATH only to those who *start* the ugly business of threatening others with death.

We all MUST thoroughly understand this, or risk losing our freedom and our lives (that too many of us take for granted) to forces that will otherwise, eventually, overwhelm Western governments and societies.


Mark Linham - 3/5/2006

I refuse to apologize for this one, damn it.

Only an unfocused "mind" would fail to recognize the *justice* in striking back at a deadly enemy with lethal force. It is the only language such people understand, and the only response they (richly) deserve!

Muslims can believe whatever they wish, no matter how much anyone dislikes it. But when they commit acts of terror, issue "fatwas", etc, in the name of anything - including their religion - they forfeit the right to be thought of, or treated, as human beings.

The only relevant issue, where militant Muslims is concerned, are the crimes they have committed, and continue to commit, by threatening others; not their supposed status as another ethnic and cultural group.

Cut your politically correct crap, and focus more on what truly is objectively just and fair.


- 3/5/2006

YEAH!!!!! GREAT IDEA!!!!

I'm going to start printing some teeshirts with Muhammad and the pig nose....and wear them PROUDLY!!!!!!

Muhammad was a HORRIBLE terrorist!!


Rall - 3/5/2006

Hey look...

The whole world knows ISLAM is a shitty religion, and we all know your pathetic "prophet" Muhammad was a terrorist Jihadist too. I'm creating teeshirts with the pictures of Muhammad just like the Danish Cartoonist created, and I'm wearing them everywhere and all my friends and family are wearing them too because we HATE Muhammad and Islam and think ISLAM is a cancer on this planet earth.

Death to ISLAM forever.


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/4/2006

Hmm, thats odd. My post above is mucked up.

Line should read:

"... the author does not appear to continue this thought moving instead to:"


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/4/2006

Could somebody please clarify this? The article reads in a largely meaningful way, till the closing two paragraphs:

"But if the issue is recast as one of enlightenment versus barbarism by Europeans, then surely there is hardly a Muslim who would be in doubt as to which side of the contest he or she is supposed to represent."

... the author does not appear to continue this t*****t, moving instead to:

"For those looking for an apt analogy to understand the significance of the cartoon controversy, it would not be an insensitive satirising of Jesus that devout Christians would find blasphemous, a religious transgression, but an anti-Semitic hate cartoon that would alarm all decent people, secular or religious."

... Wah? Where does he get this idea?

Finally:

"The group best placed to sense the gravity of this moment is that of European Muslims. They must be acutely aware that the depiction of Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist goes beyond a general demonisation of Muslims to a direct assault on Muslims in Europe."

Huh? How does this conclusion emerge from any of the preceding article text?


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/4/2006

This poem is a disgrace, as all "men with minds" would attest.


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/4/2006

"Denying the Holocaust is falicious. A sensitive matter to the jews to be sure, but Holocaust denial is not blasphemy, hence its separate treatment under freedom of speech laws."

*heh* To be clear, my wording wrongly hints there are laws against falicious claims (though sometimes one may wish there were!).


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/4/2006

Yah gotta luv reading these articles. ;)

"...in our media monitoring work for the last many years, we have never come across degrading treatment of any other religion... " !!

Juxtapose that with the second paragraph of the article to appreciate the oddity of the claim. But why quibble.

The author's media monitoring may have missed something called the Enlightenment too. Isn't that when Europe decided it was a huge waste of time and resource to keep killing everyone deemed the latest blasphemer?

This is not about freedom of speech gone mad, as the author would have us believe. This is about blasphemy. The author clings to the notion that his religion is exempt from such "insults" and that laws must be instituted to prevent such "attacks" in future. He does not state as such because he cannot see it that way, leading him to ask rhetorically "Why pick on [his special religion]?".

This failure to see the core issue helps explain another classic gaff of the "Freedom of speech gone awry" argument, wherein Holocaust denial is linked with these stupid cartoons.

A cartoon of Mohammed (correct spelling be upon him) is blasphemous. Denying the Holocaust is falicious. A sensitive matter to the jews to be sure, but Holocaust denial is not blasphemy, hence its separate treatment under freedom of speech laws. (Arguably denying the Holocaust is a sort of "historical blasphemy" and academic circles today debate this very point.)

Why pick on islam, indeed. Me ... I just find it great fun! 8D


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/4/2006

My mistake - Nazareth is not Jerusalem. Make that two amusement parks then.


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/4/2006

*sigh*

All you monotheists and your holy sites.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/03/04/nazareth-attack060304.html

Couldn't we just turn Jerusalem into an amusement park?


ASAP - 3/4/2006

Well - cut the hipocrasi and burn down newspapers in the middle east that print anti-jew cartoons, and we will get back to you, pea-brain!

And by the way, we dont buy your sneaking oppression of the world - we live in a free society, and no intolerant religion is going to change that!


hasan - 3/4/2006

Freedom of Expression versus protection of minorities
by: Bashy Quraishy

In any society, Freedom of Expression is a fundament on which a democratic system is built. It gives the little man, a possibility to raise a voice against tyranny and state oppression, demand the rights and not to be afraid of the power elite. But as it is with every concept, Freedom of Expression can also be used to insult, oppress and create conflicts between various groups. Furthermore, it is sometimes misused to push the unfair opinions of the majority over minorities. And unfortunately, this is exactly, what is happening in Denmark for the last few decades. Seen through today’s practices,the noble concept of Freedom of Expression, , is tantamount to, freedom for the journalists, editors and other powerful racist and Islamophobic groups to ridicule, ethnic minorities, their cultures and their faiths.

Sadly enough, Denmark is also one of the very few countries in the Western World where Freedom of Expression takes precedence over human rights of ethnic minorities. This priority is not only liberally taken advantage of, by the Danish media - often intentionally - but has become an accepted norm in the wider society. The judicial system, the politicians and the intellectuals guard this man made principle with great vigour. The ensuing result is a stream of racist statements from politicians of established parties, anti -Islam rhetoric on web sites, public debates degrading minorities, accusing media discussions and outright blasphemic utterances on daily basis.

The latest example of this sad situation is that the largest newspaper in Denmark- Jyllands Posten - commissioned the Danish cartoonists to draw cartoons of Prophet Mohammed. 12 very derogatory and insulting cartoons, depicting the Prophet as a terrorist and women exploiter were published in the newspaper on 30th September 2005. This uncalled for provocation has poisoned the atmosphere and created a conflict between Denmark and the Islamic World and has even reached the United Nations.

It is frustrating to hear and read the arguments being put forward by the newspaper and its allies. The newspaper in a TV interview admitted that their provocation was meant to help the progressive Muslims against the more militant ones. This is a funny argument, because if J.Posten really wanted to help the so-called moderate Muslims, then the last thing they should have done is to insult the religion of Islam and its Prophet. There is not even a little understanding of, how Muslim communities are hurt.

Since in our media monitoring work for the last many years, we have never come across degrading treatment of any other religion, we wish to ask the Danish media in general and newspaper Jyllands Posten in particular; Why pick on Islam? We know that the Danish or any European media would not dare to make fun of sensitive issues in other religions. Can one imagine, J.Posten asking Danish cartoonists to draw derogatory cartoons of Pope, Dalai Lama, Hindu deities or make fun of the Holocaust horrors?

Freedom of Expression is and should be very important to all of us. It must be protected but it has never been unlimited. It is regulated by the law and most important of all, by the moral responsibility of the majority society that must protect the minorities from attacks - physical, verbal, or written. All we are asking is that the politicians must take a stand against the misuse of Freedom of Expression and refrain from supporting the injustices.


S Misra - 3/4/2006

Oh, and I should add, if both can't be right, and one is wrong, then Mohammed sees one of them as heretics. So Mohammed cannot love both Sunni and Shiites.


S Misra - 3/4/2006

No. Mohammed is respected and loved by Shia differently than by Sunni and to prove it, you don't even respect each other's places of worship, each other's mullahs or imams, even each other's Korans. Today, they are busy proving to the world that to one sect the other is heretical and does not know Mohammed at all. After all, both cannot be right, so at least one is wrong, but which sect is it? Can't prove it. Well, the only solution is to just believe, have faith, because blind faith is enough. The only thing better for Moslems is blind, murderous faith.


Gary - 3/3/2006

Excerpts from some Palestinian videos include the statements:

"We are a nation that drinks blood, and we know that there is no blood better than the blood of Jews.

My dear mother ... wipe your tears. ... Don't let me see you sad on my wedding day with the maidens of paradise.

Escort our souls to heaven after we fulfill this duty of crushing the descendents of monkeys and pigs.

I hoped that the shredded limbs of my body would be shrapnel, tearing the Zionists to pieces, knocking on heaven's door with the skulls of Zionists. ... My blood shall be my path to march to heaven."

This farewell video of Adham Ahmad Hujyla Abu Jandal was published on a Hamas website last month.


Mark Linham - 3/2/2006

I didn't write the above poem.. but I wish I had!


Mark Linham - 3/2/2006

Yes, absolutely.

Any Muslims that are peaceful are so *in spite* of the Koran, which unambiguously instructs to kill the infidel (uh, that's US, people) wherever he is found.


Mark Linham - 3/2/2006

POSTSCRIPT:

Some additional thoughts, and a list:

Islamic countries that are terrorist strongholds:

Iran

Syria

Pakistan (The current leader of Pakistan is a relative moderate, but he can't live forever. And when he dies, Pakistan is going to be a problem.. and they have nukes.)

Afghanistan (the U.S. didn't finish the job there, because of the misguided Iraq diversion. The Taliban still rules much of that country.)

at least the above should definitely be on our hit list.

Other countries that are also terrorist strongholds, but which have governments that at least *claim* that they are trying to cooperate (HA!) with the West in stopping their indigenous extremists:

Saudi Arabia (15 of the 19 highjackers)

United Arab Emirates

My knowledge of this problem, I must admit, is not exhaustive. So consider this list, probably incomplete!




Mark Linham - 3/1/2006

OK. You're right, I'm sorry.

Perhaps that was an overstatement of the case.

Destroy SOME (not all) Muslim countries. SOME of them indeed are terrorist strongholds and havens, and by being that, have forfeited their right to exist.


Infidelity - 3/1/2006

"The creator of this mess forgot to acknowledge the fact that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is loved and respected by Shia and Sunni alike."

*bwah-hah-hah-hah-hah*

Too bad they have such trouble over who should have succeeded him!

*bwah-hah-hah-hah-hah*

(btw ... how can a Prophet have a successor?)


Infidelity - 3/1/2006

"By the way - which arab products should be avoided, other than that terrorism-supporting oil?"

Camels?
Sand?


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/1/2006

"Narcissism you wrote -- what is it that Sigmund whispers in wind...?"

Heck yeah, I've got my 'narcy' tendencies, but that alas was not my point. Apologies for my not returning to this thread sooner, Pom.

I'd earlier stumbled across this article referring to narcisism; the article is a bit strident in places, but certainly thought provoking.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/comics/introduction.htm


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/1/2006

p.s. (apologies) mine is a reply to Mark's last post, above.


Proud to be an Infidel - 3/1/2006

You may therefore wish to qualify your earlier statement: "Destroy all Muslim countries, NOW!" to be consistent with the distinction you agree to be making, no?

;)


Gary - 3/1/2006

Quote: "Flush the Koran down the toilet, make the bastards eat pork, to hell with Allah and fuck Mohammed, and BOMB Mecca to smithereens."

Sorry, but I still agree with your anger comment here. The source of the problem is the koran, the prophet, and his militant teachings. Various others on this board have made this quite clear in previous postings. No apologies needed.


Mark Linham - 3/1/2006

Yes, I agree. And I am making that distinction.

Any inflammatory remarks I have to make are directed only at the militants (the initiators of violence), not at those Muslims who truly, genuinely, wish to peacefully coexist with us - and this, of course, includes: WITHOUT depriving others of the right to disagree with - or not practice - their religion.


Mark Linham - 3/1/2006

AMEN, and amen:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4763520.stm


BMC - 3/1/2006

... not my words:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4763520.stm


Sune Jensen - 3/1/2006

UNWRA warning that a scandinavian citizen should had been killed -
So what.


Bud - 3/1/2006

Listen - I'll agree on, that islamism shall be fought back whatever the means!
But at the same time, lets make a sharp distinction between them, and the majority of muslims, living in peace with the world, without sharia and the other de-humanising sideeffects of religious intellectual melt-down!


Mark Linham - 3/1/2006

POSTSCRIPT (then I'll shut up ;)

"Cooling it" and using only conciliatory language will not asuage violent savages who have no understanding of such niceties.

It doesn't matter what any of us say here. Your being nice won't stop their terrorism.


Mark Linham - 3/1/2006

Ok, I'll cool it - for now.

Just a note, though, about an important distinction that must be made, that many who post to this board may not be making:

The kind of anger - and indeed hatred - that I, and certain other Westerners, feel is inspired by actual physical violence on the part of mortal enemies of ours.
This is in no way comparable to, say, the bigotry of Nazi Germany, who, for instance, demonized and slaughtered Jews - a people who were not physically harming Germans.

It is appropriate to respond with anger to a real credible threat to our lives, and to advocate and practice retaliatory force against those who initiate it.

So, as yourself, should I (We) really cool it? Or should we instead be enthusiastically supporting anything which will contribute to the destruction of these Islamic militant creeps?


Bud - 3/1/2006

Ok, Mark - cool it a bit, please!


Mark Linham - 3/1/2006

Flush the Koran down the toilet, make the bastards eat pork, to hell with Allah and fuck Mohammed, and BOMB Mecca to smithereens.


Mark Linham - 3/1/2006

Destroy all Muslim countries, NOW!


Mark Linham - 3/1/2006

We make our troops step gingerly
around the "holy" sites
of that "peaceful" faith of Islam,
whose apostles picked this fight.

Their religion's brought them nothing
but poverty and pain,
and a stinking life in a stinking land
in Allah's stinking name.

They gnash their yellowed teeth
and butcher, kill and maim.
They yell "God is Great!" and decapitate
And knock marvels down with planes.

We unleashed the dogs of war,
but kept their muzzles tight.
It's time we took those muzzles off
so our dogs of war can bite.

They say they want to sacrifice.
They say they want Jihad.
It's time we granted them their wish
and sent them to their god.

So bomb them on their "holy" days.
Bomb them every night.
Bomb every mosque in terror lands,
Bomb "holy" Mecca twice.

As they pray and jabber fervently,
heads low and bottoms high -
As those fools pray five times a day,
five times let our missiles fly.

Send gunships in to light 'em up
at every call to prayer
What better time to strike our foes
than when their butts are in the air?

And give Arafat a worm's eye view
Of a rumbling Israeli tank
While Al-Jazeera broadcasts live
And we tell Israel "Thanks!"

And what of so-called "innocents,"
those sheep in Muslim lands?
The despots that they tolerate,
the blood is on THEIR hands.

So bomb them all through Ramadan
Flatten all their shrines
Let the "Arab Street" meet full defeat
At the hands of men with minds.




S Misra - 3/1/2006

Hasan, you live in a fantasy world. Apparently there are no history books or newspapers where you live, or you refuse to read. Allah is not akhbar, he is a snackbar. At his table are a variety of violences one can choose to do upon others, bombs, knives, guns, landmines, fatwas or what the rest of us call murder contracts like what the Mafia puts out. The only setback to the Allah Snackbar is the burp with which a martyr dies, only to feel the relief of 72 hymens. Meanwhile, back on the farm, Sunni and Shiite are butchering each other. Your post is February 28, so you could not have missed the bombing of a historic Mosque (well, there is karma, those who blow up other's temples and religious places get theirs), the subsequent destruction of dozens of Sunni Mosques, the usual back and forth death-for-death gun-for-bomb killings in Pakistan and Afghanistan, two of the biggest opium producers on the planet, who are more and more sampling their own product, and ethnic-cleansing. Am I missing something here? You Muslims hate each other with a passion. If Islam can be contained, it will self destruct, or you will have to play pretzel with the Koran, trying to figure out how you can get rid of the violent parts. Sorry, in for a penny, in for the pound. Your fatuous romantic dribble aside, your innocents die while you play the flute of Islamic unity.


S Misra - 3/1/2006

Thank you Mark. I also enjoy reading your posts. Once in a great while, one runs into rational thinking. Violence absolutely does away with reason. Gandhi does show how to stop the tyrant nonviolently, because the assumption is that the people who do wrong things, if they do them personally, such as kill or maim, suffer psychologically from doing evil. However, there are times when you face an enemy that learns, at least for some time, that violence pays, that is sociopathic or psychopathic, that psychologically supports and counsels its thugs, just as Himmler gave pep talks to Nazi death camp guards of the SS. In those cases, it is difficult to be nonviolent. But I do think by and large that nonviolence works, especially early on. If Gypsies, Jews, and others had resisted by refusing to go quietly, as they often did, then the Germans would have had to face their dirty deeds, which they tried hard to hide, and the world would have seen it, just as it saw how the English beat to death Indians during Gandhi's Salt March, or how the dogs were set upon blacks in the South. But what do you do with people who calmly walk into a wedding, as a husband and wife team did in Lebanon, and blow up innocent people? What do you do with murderers who fly planes full of men and women, who are adults, but children too, and murder them all after seeing their faces? The only solution is reason, not toleration. Toleration allows for coexistence with irrationality, with idiots who believe in beating women whose ankles show while thinking nothing of showing their faces and bodies to women, as if women's urges have no meaning. Violence is the ultimate assault upon the individual, and the individual must be protected from the group at all times because the One may be right and the Many may be wrong, as with Socrates or Jesus. Besides nonviolence, one must believe in forgiveness and loving one's enemy. It is not enough to love friends, which even murderers do. Heydrich, the man who engineered the final solution for all sorts of people, including and not limited to Jews, Gypsies,and others, regularly went home, a loving man to his family. Only three people have talked about these indespensable virtues, which are civic, personal, professional, and cardinal virtues, Buddha, Jesus, and Gandhi. No violent religion can be right, such "prophets" are useless, may they suffer the lack of peace they bring upon others.

You are right, Mark, individual rights, the right to free speech without fear, to freedom of conscience and faith (which do not exist in Muslim nations and which they would like to force upon others), are both essential, our Bill of Inalienable Rights! I should not have to depend on the mercy of anyone, and I say that because lately Muslims are talking about how merciful Mohammed was with the woman who threw trash in his path. To depend on someone else's mercy is to be under their foot, never free. On this we are on the same page.


S Misra - 3/1/2006

There is no appeasing fascists. They always bully more, kill more, torture more if you give them a chance. Shame on the former prime minister if he criticized the publishing of the cartoons. When Moslem fanatics, that is, normal everyday Muslims, destroyed the Buddha statues in Afghanistan, not one Buddhist murdered a Moslem, burnt Moslem embassies, or homicide bombed anyone. Muslims are different because the Koran allows them to be. Just a few days ago, Muslim Sunni blew up a Muslim Shiite mosque over a thousand years old. Then Shiites destroyed many dozens of Sunni mosques. Islam does not believe what Christ said, that one should forgive, that repentance and redemption may require time, but in the mean time, one should love even one's enemy. Islam believes in vengeance. No apology will satisfy Islam, it never has and it never will. Never apologize! Actually, it only encourages Muslims to attack more. They see apologies as a sign of their righteousness and then press on further with more violence. If cartoons hurt Muslim feelings, too bad. Live with a free press. Interestingly, Mussalmans will never flood the streets protesting the murder of fellow Muslims, the blowing up of mosques, because it is in a language they understand and respect, the language of the Koran.


S Misra - 3/1/2006

Islam, Hasan, is not a race. There is a perverse racism in your thinking it is. Muslims range from black to white and every shade inbetween. Just goes to show all races of people can be misled. However, Muslim racism is well documented. In Saudi Arabia, the oppressed foreign workers brought in to do Saudi dirty work are treated as less than Muslim, well, actually, often less than human. Pakistan in large part oppressed Bengalis because they were smaller and darker. In many Muslim countries, if not all, the lighter the skin, the better it is. So, Hasan, skip the silly racism nonsense. You Muslims take second place to no one in your racism.


Scandinavian - 3/1/2006

"After having overcome fascism, Nazism, and Stalinism, the world now faces a new totalitarian global threat: Islamism.
We, writers, journalists, intellectuals, call for resistance to religious totalitarianism and for the promotion of freedom, equal opportunity and secular values for all.

The recent events, which occurred after the publication of drawings of Muhammed in European newspapers, have revealed the necessity of the struggle for these universal values. This struggle will not be won by arms, but in the ideological field. It is not a clash of civilisations nor an antagonism of West and East that we are witnessing, but a global struggle that confronts democrats and theocrats.

Like all totalitarianisms, Islamism is nurtured by fears and frustrations. The hate preachers bet on these feelings in order to form battalions destined to impose a liberticidal and unegalitarian world. But we clearly and firmly state: nothing, not even despair, justifies the choice of obscurantism, totalitarianism and hatred. Islamism is a reactionary ideology which kills equality, freedom and secularism wherever it is present. Its success can only lead to a world of domination: man's domination of woman, the Islamists' domination of all the others. To counter this, we must assure universal rights to oppressed or discriminated people.

We reject « cultural relativism », which consists in accepting that men and women of Muslim culture should be deprived of the right to equality, freedom and secular values in the name of respect for cultures and traditions. We refuse to renounce our critical spirit out of fear of being accused of "Islamophobia", an unfortunate concept which confuses criticism of Islam as a religion with stigmatisation of its believers.

We plead for the universality of freedom of expression, so that a critical spirit may be exercised on all continents, against all abuses and all dogmas.

We appeal to democrats and free spirits of all countries that our century should be one of Enlightenment, not of obscurantism."

12 signatures

Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Chahla Chafiq
Caroline Fourest
Bernard-Henri Lévy
Irshad Manji
Mehdi Mozaffari
Maryam Namazie
Taslima Nasreen
Salman Rushdie
Antoine Sfeir
Philippe Val
Ibn Warraq


Bud - 3/1/2006

I say; "cut the funding immidiately"!
Let them eat their anger, and blow up their children - crazy animals...


Brian - 3/1/2006

"Behead all who say islam i violent"

From a banner in an anti-cartoon burn-and-destruct-fiest, somewhere in the dark middle East.


Slater - 3/1/2006

>> "Why can’t we see that those who are on the streets protesting against their Prophet being depicted as a terrorist are in reality distancing themselves from terrorism?"

Because they aren't.
You can't distance yourself from violence by being violent.


The rest of this article is a load of crap. It's biased to the extreme and even untruthful.


Slater - 3/1/2006

Just saw this in a Danish newspaper today:

"63 percent of Palestinians believe riots and violent attacks are a reasonable response to the drawings of prophet Muhammed, brought in Jyllands-Posten in september"

I don't know what to say.


aakhthoo - 3/1/2006

AAAKHHH THOOOOOOOOOO.........


hasan - 3/1/2006

Why can’t we see that those who are on the streets protesting against their Prophet being depicted as a terrorist are in reality distancing themselves from terrorism?

By Mahmood Mamdani


I empathise with those baffled by the rapidly spiralling controversy around the series of cartoons depicting Prophet Muhammad. The cartoons were first published in the Danish paper, Jyllands-Posten, nearly five months ago, in September. The initial protest was limited to Denmark’s Muslim minority but was brushed off by both government and civil society. This is when some of the ultra-conservative Danish imams took up the matter and set off for Saudi Arabia and Egypt with a dossier containing the inflammatory cartoons. Last week came the diplomatic explosion: Saudi Arabia recalled its ambassador in Denmark and Libya shut its embassy. Then followed the boycott of Danish goods, demonstrations, strikes, flag burning, and now fires set to embassies in Damascus and Beirut.

All this before the disclosure that a Danish illustrator had in April 2003 submitted a series of unsolicited cartoons dealing with the resurrection of Christ to Jyllands-Posten, only to receive an e-mail from the paper’s Sunday editor: “I don’t think Jyllands-Posten’s readers will enjoy the drawings. As a matter of fact, I think that they will provoke an outcry. Therefore, I will not use them.”


One wonders about the intensity of the protests. Especially since 9/11, Prophet Muhammad has been vilified in print by several public figures, from Reverend Franklin Graham — son of Billy Graham and spiritual advisor to US President George W. Bush — who has publicly called Islam “an evil and wicked religion” to Reverend Jerry Vines, past president of the Southern Baptist Convention, who called Prophet Muhammad “a demon-possessed paedophile” during a keynote address. But none evoked the tide of public protest as have the cartoons.

When the paper at the centre of the controversy apologised because the cartoons had “indisputably offended many Muslims”, the Right-wing European press, outraged by this “caving in”, took up the cause. Led by France Soir in Paris and Die Welt in Berlin, they began to reprint the cartoons, sometimes on the front page with the original frame blown up. Others, including the Left-leaning Der Tagesspiegel in Germany, joined. “It’s the core of our culture,” Die Welt’s editor-in-chief told The Guardian, “that the most sacred things can be subjected to criticism, laughter and satire.”

Everyone agrees that the cartoons are offensive, and not particularly because they portray the Prophet in human form. (After all, you can see such depictions in both Ottoman Turkish and Persian miniatures, as well as in contemporary Iran.) At the heart of the offence is their message. One cartoon depicts the Prophet wearing a turban which turns out to be a bomb with a lit fuse. Another has him tell a queue of ragged suicide bombers: “Stop, stop, we’ve run out of virgins.” The no-frills genre of the cartoon conveys the message starkly, without qualification: this is a terrorist and sexist religion.

Why do we not draw the conclusion that those who protest against their Prophet being depicted as a terrorist are in reality distancing themselves from terrorism, in fact, demonstrating against it? I suppose because we realise that there is more to the demonstrations than just a vote for or against terrorism. That something more depends on the context of the demonstrations.

I wish to draw attention to two different contexts: Muslim-majority countries and Europe. In both cases, the protests have an overwhelming local significance.

The demonstrations in Muslim-majority countries include a variety of contradictory forces. For one, in this period ushered in by Hamas’ astonishing electoral victory, pro-American governments are anxious about Islamist mobilisation and eager to pre-empt it. Rather than curb, they would wish to claim ownership of the demonstrations. At the same time, those shut out of public life, extremist or not, realise they have found an issue on which they can call their governments to account without fear of facing direct repression; so they press home their point that the War on Terror their governments have joined unreservedly is at its core a war against Islam and Muslims. Here, then, is an issue which allows local civil society an opportunity to exercise freedom of speech to confront their own governments, alongside those of Europe.

In Europe, too, there is a local and an equally complex dimension to the protests. The official American-British dissent from the governmental chorus in Europe neatly echoes the divide on the question of Turkey’s admission into Europe. One is struck about how quickly the issue of free speech has folded into that of civilisation versus darkness. The shift has enormous significance for the European debate.

If the issue is one of free speech, there is no necessary reason why Christian Europe should be seen to be a principled defender of free speech, and Muslim Europe in disagreement in principle. But if the issue is recast as one of enlightenment versus barbarism by Europeans, then surely there is hardly a Muslim who would be in doubt as to which side of the contest he or she is supposed to represent. For those looking for an apt analogy to understand the significance of the cartoon controversy, it would not be an insensitive satirising of Jesus that devout Christians would find blasphemous, a religious transgression, but an anti-Semitic hate cartoon that would alarm all decent people, secular or religious.

The group best placed to sense the gravity of this moment is that of European Muslims. They must be acutely aware that the depiction of Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist goes beyond a general demonisation of Muslims to a direct assault on Muslims in Europe.


M.T. - 3/1/2006

The prices range from 46 to 88 dollars for boxes with a little bit of everything, from this gourmet-island.
Enjoy!


M.T. - 3/1/2006

Between the coast of Sweden, Germany and Poland, lies the small exotic island of "Bornholm".

Bornholm is known to many europeans, and all danes, as a perfect summerholliday-spot; because of its sandy beaches, incredible nature and historic sites. It is also known as a producer of many gourmet-goods, and I promise you, the quality of these products are very high and very tasty!
I used to live there, before moving to the big city - but I always try to get hold of some of that local stuff.

I've found a site, where they'll pack a little bit of everything, from this sunny spot in the Baltic Sea - I suggest you try it, and if you're pleased: take your next holliday there: you wont regret!

The site is in danish:

http://bornholmer-pakken.dk

But you can also mail them, and ask for one of the packets (I think they have 5 different):

pakken@bornholmer-pakken.dk

Especially, when you've tasted the mustard (secret recipe), you won't have anything else - and thats a promise!
If you want further information about this island - leave a mail and a message, and I will be glad to help!


European - 3/1/2006

Its amazing to see, how the cartoon in general, has been revitalized by the muslim worlds backwards response to humor - I think they are all over, mocking every arab soft spot - and its hilarious!
If they wanted to fence free speech and kill it, their plan has surely backfired: Every schoolkid now know the double standards of the muslim world, with their long history of anti-semitic cartoons, much worse than the Muhammad-cartoons!
The PR of islam, has been catastrophic, and has just woken up europe, to face the fascism of islamism - this is a war we have to win!

We must ensure to have every democraticminded muslim, up there fighting as well, so that islam has a future among other religions; not above, neither under! The respect towards islam will surely resurface, when the muslim world denounces and fights islamism, and when the medieval way of preaching islam has come to an end: NO MORE sharia, NO MORE kalifat-fascism!

It is time for enlightenment, free humans and humor - check it out:

http://cagle.msnbc.com/news/BushArabs/


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 3/1/2006

"Freedom of speech has its limits" said Osman Umarji the former president of the Muslim Student Union at the University of California, Irvine.

He wants to ban the display of the cartoons on a U.S. university campus... this is outrageous!!!

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/13984489.htm

I strongly doubt that the “Muslim Student Union at the University of California, Irvine” protested after 9/11! As long as it does not touch Muslims, it’s alright… Infidels are fair game! What’s really sad is that he came to the infidels country to get top notch education, but will not stand for the freedom of the infidels to have an open and balanced debate (since Muslims were invited) about the cartoons. I am not very surprised after all.

I found this article written by him:
http://www.newu.uci.edu/plain_article.php?id=4423

And he supports the right of Muslim student to wear green stoles normally associated with Hamas, a terrorist organization:
http://www.cairnet.net/default.asp?Page=articleView&;id=33693&theType=NB

I lived in the Muslim World for many many years, and I don’t recall a single instance of people wearing these green stoles EVER.


Mark Linham - 3/1/2006

READ IT, Europeans (and others), and take it to heart(!):


http://capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4028


Mark Linham - 2/28/2006

If you're really interested in condemning hatred, you would condemn the physically and criminally violent actions baing committed by some Muslims, not the reasonable and truthful statements made by others about militant Islam.

So don't give us this crap. You're not against hatred.

Give it up.


Gary - 2/28/2006

Quote: "Well, their women are nice, as soon as they dare to lose their weil!"

I totaly agree. Many ME ladies are very beautiful. Perhaps someone should set up a dating/marriage web site as has been done for Russian women.


M.T. - 2/28/2006

Hasan - why do you say "sorry danes", as if the danes had published the cartoons?
Don't you know that it was an independent, private newpspaper that printed the cartoons?
But its probalbly all the same to you... its like saying that all muslims are terrorists, even though its only a small number of muslims, that think blowing up innocent people is ok with the Qu'ran!

Man, its stupid, and you know - it has opened the eyes of the west, to how crazy all this islamism has gotten...
You stood together for some weeks, burning the embassies of a people who never did you anything, you boycotted the companies that never did you anything - man, if you're proud, I'll say you lack some basic human values!

I'm sorry for you, and the people like you, who cannot separate facts from fiction - its called brainwash, in our part of the world!


Slater - 2/28/2006

The creator of the mess is the Muslim world. Sorry Hasan.
And united? Muslims are killing Muslims over this. You call that united?


hasan - 2/28/2006

One positive that has come out in the whole ordeal of cartoons is that muslims are again united. The sleeping muslim nation may finally awake and the OIC (organization of islamic countries) will play for the very first time some role to solve a muslim issue.

The creator of this mess forgot to acknowledge the fact that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is loved and respected by Shia and Sunni alike. I can't think of any other..sorry danes!


hasan - 2/28/2006

I will and have not asked anyone to boycott. I dont think this is the appropriate forum to say such things.

I'd rather go to the EU to discuss and debate this issue. If anyone is boycotting then its his right and his opinion.

I don't know if anyone else is getting such emails. Don't get all rowdy and raucous. I just felt like sharing this email.


Scandinavian - 2/28/2006

Well, their women are nice, as soon as they dare to lose their weil!
I had a girlfriend from ME, a bit problematic, but nice... I think western guys should liberate their arab sisters this way - they surely haven't deserved all these angry young men, running around torching everything because of a giant minoritycomplex! And I think a lot of them is so feed up with it as well: they just want to live a modern life, without sharia, the weil and all the other patriarch ways of submission arab men are using!


Bud - 2/28/2006

Lets get this alternative-power-production roling (as Bush stated) - then the arab world will have nothing but the social service from the west!

By the way - which arab products should be avoided, other than that terrorism-supporting oil?


Thanks - 2/27/2006

Thanks Hasan, now we know what to look for when we want to support Denmanrk, Netherlands, Norway and Israel :o).


Slater - 2/27/2006

What's your barcode number, Hasan?
I'd sure like to boycott you.


hasan - 2/27/2006

i have been receiving these emails :

While you buy something please do look at the bar codes
here are the barcodes which might interest us all

CHECK THE FIRST THREE DIGITS FROM LEFT

570-579 denmanrk (i.e. 570, 571,.........,579)

870 - 879 Netherlands (i.e. 870,871,.......,879)

700-709 norway

729 for israel


what can i say? ummmmmmmmmm.....ur choice...


A Dane - 2/27/2006

Hasan - you're a hatefull little looser, and you are certainly not making it easier for islam, displaying all that unfounded hatred that you do!

I will ignore your post from now on, and I think everybody else should do the same!


Slater - 2/27/2006

Once again a lie.

The Queen said "vi må vise modspil mod Islam", which is pretty much impossible to translate into English, but means something like "we must not surrender to Islam".
Unfortunately a translator at an English newspaper got it wrong, because the Danish word "modspil" is close to "modstand", which means opposition.

This wrongful translation was however NOT in the Arab translated version.

Once again, get your facts straight. You just make yourself look more and more idiotic every day.


hasan - 2/27/2006

Danaish hatred towards islam and muslims is deep rooted within the danish system. The height of racism and bigotry comes when your own queen expresses hatred and when this hatred raised a few eyebrows danes come out altering her previous statement.

In April last year the queen of Denmark was quoted by the Telegraph newspaper as saying that we (Denmark) “should show our opposition to Islam”.

She said: “We are being challenged by Islam these years — globally as well as locally. It is a challenge we have to take seriously. We have let this issue float about for too long because we are tolerant and lazy.

“We have to show our opposition to Islam and we have to, at times, run the risk of having unflattering labels placed on us because there are some things for which we should display no tolerance.”


Gary - 2/27/2006

Quote: "Listen - its not the prophet, its his "followers" in the islamist deathcult thats the problem!"

Actually, it's both the prophet and many of the followers. A study of the Koran shows the prophet teaching violence and merciless dealings with those who oppose Islam.


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/26/2006

Uber-Rich?

4.8% unemployment, the highest home ownership rate in history, and lowest crime rates in history are not really bad quality of life.

Our two biggest domestic problems in the U.S. are the deficit (being worked on), and the out-of-this-world health care costs.

The semi-secular regime in Iraq was very dangerous as you know, so even though it could possibly be replaced by an Islamist one, at least that is what people want, or think they do. I truly believe that the Iraqis will not accept a Saudi-style Islamist regime.

This is just similar to what happened in Israel/Palestine. The people voted for Hamas not because they want an Islamic party, but because they were fed up with the secular Fatah party's corruption. Hamas will be forced to follow a similar path to peace as Fatah did, and they will have to drop violence if they wish to accomplish anything. When they do that, they will lose a lot of respect by those who supported them because of their hard-line ideology.


Mark Linham - 2/26/2006

Amen.


Mark Linham - 2/26/2006

S Misra,

You seem to have a keen awareness of much of what is wrong with various religions. And so do I. What do we do?

Just some of my own thoughts about some points you touch on:

It is ALWAYS a key indicator of dishonesty, if one is consistently defensive (especially if violently so) whenever criticised.

"Just War" theory is something I have, as yet, only a cursory familiarity with. The only - and I mean the *only* - justification for war would be physical self-defense. War for any reason other than this is murder.
But self-defense is absolutely a moral imperative - one simply won't live if (s)he doesn't do this.

I am am American liberal (as opposed to conservatism, which largely has failed, to put it kindly).

The values of anything called "liberalism", anywhere, should - and indeed MUST - have such a meaning, that the promotion of INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM is included in the concept. Why? ..Do I hear some of you asking?
Because - for one thing - how else are we all, as individuals, to have any genuine interest at all in justice - which is, in turn, the key to any and all of our objective values?

Make no mistake about it, logic is on our side. So: Chin up! Be as optimistic as you can be, fellow Westerners and others who yearn to live and breathe free.
We may manage to save the world, and our asses, yet!

S Misra, I've really enjoyed reading your posts - even though I am not, as far as I can tell, a religious person. I think that, in at least some ways, you and I are on the same page.


S Misra - 2/26/2006

The problem is not that Mohammed showed concern in this situation or mercy in that situation or amnesty in yet another. All those actions are because he felt like it. His life and his words, the Koran, excuse violence. I should not have to depend on someone else's mercy. Freedoms such as of worship and speech and conscience are my birthright.

I've heart the woman throwing the trash story often recently, because no Muslim wants to quote the Koran's violent passages, of which there are many. Interestingly, it is exactly like a story in the Ramayan, where a certain forest man despised the shrine of Shiva, and daily came out to kick it. Even the priests would not come during bad weather, but this forest man never failed daily to show his contempt for Shiva. Finally, Shiva, impressed that this forest man had such faith that there was a Shiva that he took the time to kick his shrine, appeared and blessed him with the whole forest. Such stories are everywhere but they do not give to the object of mercy a recognized right or set of rights, the least of these being the freedom to express one's self with no fear of being oppressed, suppressed, tortured, or killed. Mohammed is violent and just as Hinduism cannot escape its violent texts, you cannot escape the violence in the Koran. Now you must deal with it. There are no more Baal worshippers who sacrifice children and infants to a burning hot statue; likewise, no human being should be sacrificed to the alter of any religion as an infidel, nonbeliever, or outcaste.


Normal Human - 2/26/2006

Absolutely correct!

It is good not to feel alone.


Normal Human - 2/26/2006

I find it amusing that someone with a name like "true Gansta" will make any type of coments bu here we go:

Islam since its inception has been a religion propagated by means of hate, war and death. Mohammed was false pedophilic bastard. That is not an insult, simple the truth. Hopefully, we can further insult these pigs into a real war that will allows to use nuclear weapons in order to show them that our God is God as the Pharoh stated when he could not beat Moses.

And the most enjoyable part of a massive war, is to finally declare a state of siege in the USA, Latin America and Europe and round up useless scum like you in order to have cannon fodder. Since "you all" like to carry guns and kill each other we need to give you tough guys an opportunity to see a battle field.


Atesist - 2/26/2006

Listen - its not the prophet, its his "followers" in the islamist deathcult thats the problem!

You know, you can believe all you want - we live in a free society - but religion IS a personal matter, and shouldn't be mixed up in politics... if it does, then this perversion WILL be fought to the end!
So; stop the fascist world dominion ideas, and stop the misuse of the prophet Muhammad. That is; if you want to live in peace with the rest of the world, not blowing everything to pieces - which surely wasn't what Muhammad thought of way back yonder!?


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/26/2006

This article discusses the cartoon issue. Please read it, and comment on it. It is by an Arabic writer and is written in Arabic. Let's hear from the Muslim Arabic speakers/readers on this excellent article:

http://www.mofakren.com/modules.php?name=News&;file=article&sid=31


Gary - 2/26/2006

Quote: "Muslim paranoia is SO weird!"

Yes, tis true, but he is only following the path of his maniac prophet.


Mark Linham - 2/25/2006

Teletubbies are kewl. I'm still a BABY inside... or maybe I'm just drunk.. I dunno.


Smile - 2/25/2006

Hasan
Personally I do not hate muslims , but I hate the brutalitet practising among many muslims. If prophet Muhammed was a peaceful man, and if his life was an good example for non-violent conduct, then it is not his responsibility for violence which muslims conduct today.
I had made a reseach about Quran and Muhammed life, and I found out that Muhammed was brutal militant leader in the periode 622-632. In this periode Muhammed created a greatest militant force to unify alle tribes and cities in Arabian to become a muslims Arabian without any other religions.
Before 622 Muhammed lived in MEDINA, here Muhammed created the first muslims congregation with the purpose to bringe the message of CURAN to other people. At that time there were many different relions and cultur in different cities and tribes in Arabian, and these people did not want to listen to Muhammed, then he used his militant power to force these people to convert to Muslims.
I agree with you that CURAN has a lot of peaceful message, but that also has some violent message.
Muhammed by Using his militant power, to force other people to vonvert to muslims, was a bad axample to imitated, and many people was killed by violent muslims then they have right to say that muhammed was responsible for the aggression of violent muslims today.
You can not avoid the insult your religion and its leader from other people by the form of cartoon, comments from people, whom stand for many innocent people being killed by your fellower.
HITLER was responsible for worldwarII, therefor Press and people today still condemn him as a brutal dictator, whom was responsible for many innocent people being killed under worldwar II, and German people do not stand for him today.
If you do not want to take this responsibilitet, then you have to condemn that kind of violence.
Live of people is holy, it is more important than to be felt insulted


Love Them - 2/25/2006

Im by his side!!! Mess with them and all of the children´s network characters will punish you.


Mark Linham - 2/25/2006

Here's another fellow who says what needs to be said, well:

http://capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4575


Mark Linham - 2/25/2006

None of what you've said here bears any resemblence (or relevance) to the behavior of some Muslims responding to the Danish cartoons. They are hardly following (what you claim is) the "prophet's" example and behaving as follows:

"The prophet never responded in kind to the woman’s abuse. Instead, when she one day failed to attack him, he went to her home to inquire about her condition."

No the actual controversy is the free exercise of one's rational faculty, and the absolutism of freedom of speech - with all the fruits of civilization that go only with those, versus people who intend to use force to suppress that free flow of information that is so vital to life.

Further, your claims of the virtue of forgiveness for "abuse", is disingenuous, due to that matter not being applicable, in the first place, to the cartoon controversy.
It is not "abuse" of anyone to tell the *truth*, literally, or symbolically (as in the case of the drawings).


hasan - 2/25/2006

This is Something i have been asking myself and telling other muslims...suddenly i found this amazing article by a muslim brother Ibrahim Hooper from USA.

=====================================

“You do not do evil to those who do evil to you, but you deal with them with forgiveness and kindness.” (Sahih Al-Bukhari)


That description of Islam’s Prophet Muhammad is a summary of how he reacted to personal attacks and abuse.

Islamic traditions include a number of instances of the prophet having the opportunity to strike back at those who attacked him, but refraining from doing so.

These traditions are particularly important as we witness outrage in the Islamic world over cartoons, initially published in a Danish newspaper, that were viewed as intentional attacks on the prophet.

Peaceful and not-so-peaceful protests have occurred from Gaza to Indonesia. Boycotts have targeted companies based in Denmark and in other nations that reprinted the offensive caricatures.

We all, Muslims and people of other faiths, seem to be locked into a downward spiral of mutual mistrust and hostility based on self-perpetuating stereotypes.

As Muslims, we need to take a step back and ask ourselves, “What would the Prophet Muhammad do?”

Muslims are taught the tradition of the woman who would regularly throw trash on the prophet as he walked down a particular path. The prophet never responded in kind to the woman’s abuse. Instead, when she one day failed to attack him, he went to her home to inquire about her condition.

In another tradition, the prophet was offered the opportunity to have God punish the people of a town near Mecca who refused the message of Islam and attacked him with stones. Again, the prophet did not choose to respond in kind to the abuse.

A companion of the prophet noted his forgiving disposition. He said: “I served the prophet for ten years, and he never said ‘uf’ (a word indicating impatience) to me and never blamed me by saying, ‘Why did you do so or why didn't you do so?’” (Sahih Al-Bukhari)

Even when the prophet was in a position of power, he chose the path of kindness and reconciliation.

When he returned to Mecca after years of exile and personal attacks, he did not take revenge on the people of the city, but instead offered a general amnesty.

In the Quran, Islam’s revealed text, God states: “When (the righteous) hear vain talk, they withdraw from it saying: ‘Our deeds are for us and yours for you; peace be on to you. We do not desire the way of the ignorant’. . .O Prophet (Muhammad), you cannot give guidance to whom you wish, it is God Who gives guidance to whom He pleases, and He is quite aware of those who are guided.” (28:55-56)

The Quran also says: “Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching, and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knows best who have strayed from His Path and who receive guidance.” (16:125)

Another verse tells the prophet to “show forgiveness, speak for justice and avoid the ignorant.” (7:199)

These are the examples that Muslims should follow as they express justifiable concern at the publication of the cartoons.

This unfortunate episode can be used as a learning opportunity for people of all faiths who sincerely wish to know more about Islam and Muslims. It can also be viewed as a “teaching moment” for Muslims who want to exemplify the prophet’s teachings through the example of their good character and dignified behavior in the face of provocation and abuse.

As the Holy Quran states: “It may well be that God will bring about love (and friendship) between you and those with whom you are now at odds.” (60:7)


danishmuslim - 2/25/2006

Through the centuries, orientalists have advance numerous accusations and far-fetched theories to discredit Islam and its last Prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him). Praise be to Allah alone, all such accusations have been successfully refuted by the Muslims Ummah. Currently, one of the ‘reinvented’ accusations against the noble character of the Prophet is about his marriage to young Aisha Siddiqa ®.
Let’s probe some of the orientalists’ charges in detail in the light of modern research, historic evidence and the Islamic sources of the Quran and the Sunnah to separate truth from falsehood, and display to the world that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is indeed an exemplary for all of mankind.

Two main theories are often advance by orientalists to attack the pure character of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) on his marriage to Aisha ® at her young age.

A. He was a Pedophile.
B. He was involved in child abuse.

Let’s analyze each theory to dig out the truth, through the Guidance of Allah (SWT).
A. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) married Aisha ® because he was a pedophile?
Definition of a Pedophile:

"Pedophile: also spelled PEDOPHILIA, psychosexual disorder in which an adult's arousal and sexual gratification occur primarily through sexual contact with prepubescent children. The typical pedophile is unable to find satisfaction in an adult sexual relationship and may have low self-esteem, seeing sexual activity with a child as less threatening than that with an adult." Encyclopedia Britannica, 1998
"pe.do.phil.ia n [NL] (1906): sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object -- pe.do.phil.i.ac or pe.do.phil.ic adj." Merriam Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary


The diagnostic criteria for pedophilia according to American Psychiatric Association:

Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent intense sexual urges and sexual arousing fantasies involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children.
The person has acted on these urges, or is markedly distressed by them.
The person is at least 16 years old and at least 5 years older than the child or children in A.
DSM-III-R Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, ed 3, revised, copyright American Psychiatric Association.
"In addition to their pedophilia, a significant number of pedophiles are concomitantly or have previously been involved in exhibitionism, voyeurism, or rape". (Voyeurism’s the recurrent preoccupation with fantasized or acts that involve seeking out or observing people who are naked, or are engaged in grooming or in sexual activity". Synopsis of psychiatry, Harold I.Kaplan et al., 5th ed., pg360, Publishers: Williams and Wilkens, 1988
Does the Prophet fit the above criteria of a pedophile?

With the above criteria of a pedophile in mind, lets analyze the lifestyle of the prophet and his marriages.

Name of Bride Bride’s age at marriage Comments
Khadija bint khawilad 40 Twice widowed before
Sauda Bint Zama 50 Widow
Aisha bint Abu Bakr 9 Started living with the prophet at the age of 9.
Hafsa Bint Umar bin Khattab 22 Widow
Zainab bint Khuzaima 30
Umm-I-Salma bint Abu Umayia 26 Widow
Zainab Bint Jahash 38 Widow
Juwaeria Bint Harith 20 Widow
Umm-I-Habiba bint Abu Sufyan 36 Widow
Marya Qibtiya bint shamun 17 Virgin, Egyptian
Safia bint Hayi bin Akhtab 17 Widow
Raihana bint umru bin hanafa Not available
Maimuna bint harith 36 Widow


Source: The Prophet of Islam, the Ideal Husband, by Syed Abu Zafar Zain, Kazi Publications, Lahore, Ist Ed., pg. 10-12

Statistics from the above table:
Percentage of his wives who were 17years and older = 91 %

Percentage of his wives who were widows = 75%


Comment: The statistics show that the prophet’s marriage to Aisha at her young age was an exception and not a norm of his other marriages. Furthermore ‘a pedophile’s main mode of sexual satisfaction is with prepubescent girls’, which is contradictory to the 91% of prophet’s marriage to women 17 years and over. An unbiased examination of Prophet’s life and his marriages to his wives blatantly rejects the notion of his lifestyle fitting that of a pedophile. All his brides were aged widows (except Aisha and Marium).
Moreover, according to the criteria in the references cited above in ‘Synopsis of Psychiatry’, a vast majority of pedophiles possess a history of exhibitionism, voyeurism, or rape. Again, there is no single reference from either religious or secular sources that the noble Prophet ever indulged in such sadistic behavior (God forbid). This truth is observed and accepted by both Muslims and unbiased non-Muslims scholars.

"It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher." – Annie Besant, THE LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMAD, Madras, 1932, p. 4.



B. Others claim that the noble Prophet (peace be upon him) indulged in child-abuse when he married Aisha at her young age.

Let scrutinize this allegation…

Definition of Child Abuse:

Child Abuse, also called CRUELTY TO CHILDREN, the willful and unjustifiable infliction of pain and suffering on children. The term can denote the use of inordinate physical violence; unjustifiable verbal abuse; the failure to furnish proper shelter, nourishment, medical treatment, or emotional support; incest; other cases of sexual molestation or rape; and the making of child pornography. Frequently described by the medical profession as the "battered-child syndrome," abusive treatment of children is almost universally proscribed by criminal statutes. Child abuse can have serious future consequences for the victims involved. Delays in physical growth, impaired language and cognitive abilities, and problems in personality development, learning, and behavior are common following instances of child abuse or neglect.Encyclopedia Britannica, 1998


Comment: None of the criteria of child-abuse applies to the noble life of the Prophet (pbuh). There is no single incident of any infliction of pain and suffering by the prophet on Aisha or any other human being for that matter. Neither any instance of verbal or sexual abuse can be concluded from the relationship of the prophet with Aisha ® or any of his wives.

An abused child can have serious future consequences…delayed physical growth, impaired language..learning and behavior…etc (above definition). As one examines the chaste life of Aisha ®, her personality, physical, mental and spiritual development are all contrary to that of an abused child. In fact through the Prophet’s marriage and his guidance to Aisha, history testifies that she should be labeled not as an abused child but as a ‘blessed child’.

After analyzing and refuting the accusations against the noble character of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), the only viable alternative left with us is:
C. The Prophet married Aisha for the benefit of Islam and Humanity.

Lets analyze…


The Prophet married Aisha primarily for three reasons:
To reinforce the friendly relations already existing with Abu Bakr (his closest companion).
To educate and train Aisha so she may serve the purposes of Islam.
To teach her to utilize her capabilities for the sake of Islam.
Her Marriage with the prophet was a Wahi (Divine Revelation). She, herself relates from the Prophet, ‘He said, "I saw you in dreams three times. The angel brought you to me and you were clad in white silk. He (the angel) said that it was your consort and he (angel) showed me by opening your face. You are just like that…" Sahih Muslim, Vol.2, p.285.

Aisha ® was born after her parents had embraced Islam. Therefore, she was free from the defilement of polytheism right from her birth.

In her youth, already known for her striking beauty and her formidable memory, she came under the loving care and attention of the Prophet himself. As his wife and close companion she acquired from him knowledge and insight such as no woman has ever acquired.







Aishah lived on almost fifty years after the passing away of the Prophet. She had been his wife for a decade. Much of this time was spent in learning and acquiring knowledge of the two most important sources of God's guidance, the Quran and the Sunnah of His Prophet. Aishah ® was one of the three wives (the other two being Hafsa ® and Umm Salamah ®) who memorized the Revelation. Like Hafsa ®, she had her own script of the Quran written after the Prophet had died.


So far as the Hadith or sayings of the Prophet is concerned, Aishah ® is one of four persons (the others being Abu Hurrah, Abdullah ibn Umar, and Ana ibn Malik) who transmitted more than two thousand sayings. From her, 2210 Hadith have come, out of which 174 Hadith are commonly agreed upon by both Bukhari and Muslim. Many of her transmissions pertain to some of the most intimate aspects of personal behavior which only someone in Aishah’s position could have learnt. What is most important is that her knowledge of Hadith was passed on in written form by at least three persons including her nephew Urwah who became one of the greatest scholars among the generation after the Companions. It is the claim of the Scholars of Islam that without her, half of the Ilm-I-Hadith [knowledge, understanding of the Hadith (and Islam)] would have perished.

Many of the learned companions of the Prophet and their followers benefited from Aishah's knowledge. Abu Musa al-Ashari once said: "If we companions of the Messenger of God had any difficulty on a matter, we asked Aisha about it."
"Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said from Said ibn al-Musayyab that Abu Musa al-Ashari came to Aishah, the wife of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and said to her, "The disagreement of the companions in a matter which I hate to bring before you has distressed me." She said, "What is that? You did not ask your mother about it, so ask me." He said, "A man penetrates his wife, but becomes listless and does not ejaculate. "She said, "When the circumcised part passes the circumcised part ghusl is obligatory." Abu Musa added, "I shall never ask anyone about this after you." Al-Muwatta of Imam Malik Hadith 2.75
Arwa Bin Zubair says, "I did not find anyone more proficient (than Aisha ®) in the knowledge of the Holy Quran, the Commandments of Halal (lawful) and Haram (prohibited), Ilmul-Ansab and Arabic poetry. That is why, even senior companions of the Prophet used to consult Aisha ® in resolving intricate issued".Jala-ul-Afham by Ibn Qaiyem and Ibn Sa’ad, Vol.2, p.26

Abu Musa al-Ashari says: "Never had we (the companions) had any difficulty for the solution of which we approached Aisha and did not get some useful information from her".Sirat-I-Aisha, on the authority of Trimidhi, pg. 163



As a teacher she had a clear and persuasive manner of speech and her power of oratory has been described in superlative terms by al-Ahnaf who said: "I have heard speeches of Abu Bakr and Umar, Uthman and Ali and the Khulafa up to this day, but I have not heard speech more persuasive and more beautiful from the mouth of any person than from the mouth of Aishah."







The Prophet said, "The superiority of 'Aisha to other ladies is like the superiority of Tharid (i.e. meat and bread dish) to other meals. Many men reached the level of perfection, but no woman reached such a level except Mary, the daughter of Imran and Asia, the wife of Pharaoh." Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith, Narrated by Abu Musa Al Ashari Hadith 4.643
Musa Ibn Talha ® says, "I did not see anyone more eloquent than Aisha ®" Mustadrak of Hakim, Vol.4,p.11



Men and women came from far and wide to benefit from her knowledge.







Aisha’s great interest in the study of the Qur’an is understandable. She was an eye-witness to a number of revelations and had therefore a clear idea of the circumstances in which they were revealed. It was on her bed alone (and no other consort’s) that the Prophet received Wahi (Divine Revelations) several times. This helped her in interpreting the verses.



At the time of the Prophet’s death, the Prophet’s head was on her lap. It was in her quarters that the Prophet was buried.







The life of Aishah (R) is a proof that a woman can be far more learned than men and that she can be the teacher of scholars and experts. Her life is also a proof that a woman can exert influence over men and women and provide them with inspiration and leadership. Aisha (R) is a continuing inspiration and role model to today’s youth who are diligently searching for an example amongst the pop stars, movie actresses and sports stars. May the memory of her’s live forever in the heart of the Muslim Ummah and may Allah grant her the highest abode in Paradise…Aameen.


Conclusion:

It was the aforementioned qualities of Aisha ® and the Prophet’s guidance in molding these capabilities for the service of Islam, were the main reasons, why the Prophet Married young Aisha ®, and not the perverted reasons brought forth by misguided orientalists.

Muslims invite all sincere humans to study the life of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon) in the light of the authentic sources of the Quran and the Sunnah (exemplary sayings and deeds of the Prophet) and judge for themselves where the truth lies. Indeed, by recognizing the truth of Islam as the final and complete Guidance sent by our Creator can humanity find lasting peace in this world and a means of salvation from the hell fire in the hereafter.

"I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Savior of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today." George Bernard Shaw, THE GENUINE ISLAM, Vol. 1, No. 81936.

Though, the Prophet is not among us in his flesh, but his exemplary life has been preserved for all humanity to follow.

=====================================


When Truth comes Falsehood disappears, Islam came, now Shirk (polytheism) must clear

Welcome to Islam…


Dane - 2/25/2006

Muslim paranoia is SO weird!


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/25/2006

It isn't really a reaction to the toons but it is hilarious:

http://www.erotic8.com/videos/muslimraveparty.wmv

Someone sent it to me today and I'm still laughing.


S Misra - 2/25/2006

And, therefore, I should have added, I am sorry to see the Danish government bending over backwards to appease the Muslim fascists, they can never be appeased---that should be more than clear when we see how they treat their own, such as shooting an unarmed Muslim journalist and her cameramen, shooting a Muslim woman bystander in the head, blow up mosques by the dozen, burn room fulls of Korans belonging to the "wrong" sect...

And that is why I will buy Danish. Don't Tread On Me.


S Misra - 2/25/2006

Mark:
Christianity that used torture and murder was not true to the words of Christ. Christians who argue that there is such a thing as "just war" are wrong; they cannot find words in Christ that excuse it. Christians who, in short, try to attach to the teachings of Jesus the Old Testament, which is full of justifications of violence, are making a mistake.
The problem is that Islam does explicitly excuse the killing of nonbelievers and therefore whereas Christians can see that such horrors as burnings of witches, the Inquisition, or slavery cannot be justified, Muslims believe in killing. Their holy book allows for it.

No matter how much I try to attack it, the caste system is terrible, but it is justified by the religious books, so religiously I don't have a leg to stand on. No matter how much I might try, if I were a Jew, to justify nonviolence, the actions of Moses and Joshua clearly allow for ethnic cleansing, killing of men, women and children (read Exodus). These are failed religions. If I were a Buddhist, I cannot justify violence, the words of Buddha would not allow it. If I were not religious, and liked Socrates, I could not justify violence, he clearly said "violence negates reason." If I thought Gandhi was, as Einstein said, the greatest man in 2,000 years, I could not justify violence, because Gandhi believed the means were the end and that violence only begets more violence.

But violent religions can justify violence. As such, true enlightenment, which requires nonviolence and the use of reason, cannot really penetrate peoples of violent religions. Yes, they can learn science and art, but in their political life, they are always potential barbarians. If such people did not take offense at every question, one could ask them why violence is justified, how the behavior of their religious heroes is anything but abysmal, but they would fly off the handle and, well, you see what they can do. But we must ask them, as Socrates asked the Athenians who went on to poison him, why one should bow to irrationality? Once you excuse killing in holy books, no one is safe. Today, they kill "infidels," of which I am proud to be one; tomorrow, and today for that matter, they kill the other sects of their own faith, Sunni murder Shiites and Shiites murder Sunni. Finally, they kill those within their own faith for not being true enough.

As such, violent religons always excuse, ultimately, the worst sort of fascism, theocracy. These theocratic fascists must be challenged, not simply tolerated. If a tyrant orders you to bow, to apologize, one must always refuse openly, because you can never make tyrants happy. Give them some and they want more, until they want your worship.

Also, doubt is part of true faith. People who have real faith have doubts. Doubts do not mean you have no faith, as Malcolm Muggeridge, the theologian said, doubts are proof that one is faithful in really seeking the Truth. But to fanatics, doubts are to be met with hate, torture, and death. Every single disciple had doubts, or they would not have disappeared during Christ's torture before his crucifixion. Only liars and utter fanatics have no doubts, and, unfortunately, they are allowed to use violence to destroy "infidels," those who do not have utter fidelity to the faith. It is as if the slightest doubt tests the irrationality of their own faith, so they cannot tolerate it. This is why there is no religious or political Renaissance in lands where violent faiths predominate.


Spelling Wroung - 2/25/2006

You just offended my feelings by ridiculing The Teletubbies(may peace be opon them)Now I have to start up riots and curse those who question their teachings....


javaid ilyas dar - 2/25/2006

whats nonesense happening there in denmark,france germany and norway?u should behave like civilized peoples, coz u are cosideringurselfe as civilized soceity,generally anyone can,t considered as civilized whenever he havnt show respect for others religions, religious personalities, as like prophets, than holy books, and other noble practices,coz all of these things deserving common interests and respects from everyone,holy prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is a personality, whose life is an ideal example for not just muslims but for everyone, coz his behaviour towards life, is really a practical, and meaningfull, he always respected every one, even his worst enemies, he always prayed for everyone towards true path ,which is guided by God.he just guided the humen being towars the pleasure of God in the light of holy revelations, he havt great respect for all prophets and messangers and included this repect and faith in islam , that whenever any muslim havnt complete faith and respect, and love for all messangers, he can,t be a muslim.so we have a great love and respect for all messangers and prophets to become true and complete muslims.than why are u doing such blasphemic activities? u know well than any one can,t draw any image, caricature, cartoon photo of the prophets since 1400 year before,coz any one havnt any image of those periods.so tyhis activity is looking to just offend the muslims and u r trying to play with the emoptions of muslims.
editors of the news papers are most educated, responsible thinkiers, and philosphers persons, they can predict the reaction of therei published story, coz its a professional matter and any professional person can predict abt his professional activity,s reaction. so these editors knew well that its a worst thing to draw and publish such type of caricatures, and hence they did same... its mean that they did professional dishonesty and between the line of this dishonety, there is looking a conspiracy to start a war between civilizations, if u don,t excuses from God and prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and also from the muslims of all over the world, ucan,t imagine whats happen next?every thing will be finished specially urs civilization....u can,t hide it behind the freedom of expresion right...its not freedom of expresion.coz freedom of expresion is not a license to offend billions persons, so u have some short time to stop and made excuse .otherwise there is willing to dismantle everything is going strongest day by day, u can,t imagine the power of islam and muslims, we r now fighting terrorism and extremsim in our soceity but u r forcing us to made it strong.ok
may Allah guide u towards true and right path.
javaid ilyas dar
muzaffarabad Ajk pakistan


Mark Linham - 2/25/2006

Hasan,

You're an idiot!

Aside from lying about the contents of the Danish Constitution, when "anti-semitic activities" are referenced in the context of a criminal investigation of them, it means - or should only mean, at least - actions (i.e. violence), or planned actions, against Jews, not speaking, or drawing cartoons about them.

Speech, as such - against *anyone* - is never to be considered the subject of criminal investigations, or prosecution. It's only when the "speech" in question amounts to a credible threat of violence, that it would be considered a crime.


Mark Linham - 2/25/2006

Ah, you remember the rantings of good ole Falwell, one of our own "Ayatollahs"!

Then there are the rubber sharks, and Spongebob Squarepants!


Slater - 2/25/2006

Now you're calling me a faggot? :P


Slater - 2/25/2006

Kewl :P


Slater - 2/25/2006

That's a straight-out lie. The Danish constitution says no such thing.

You can see the whole thing in Danish at www.grundloven.dk - notice the absence of the word "religion" anywhere in it. The word is the same in Danish.

The only thing slightly related to religion is $71:
"No Danish citizen can be subjected to any kind of imprisonment due to ethnicity or religion"


hasan - 2/25/2006

Danish ministers say the government can’t condemn the cartoons a daily published mocking the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), and that freedom of speech is guaranteed for all and that freedom of the press is also guaranteed by the Danish constitution. This argument would have been accepted if the constitution does not state otherwise and if the Danish government can say the same thing when it comes to making anti-Semitic remarks. The Danish constitution says:

“The law prohibits publicly disseminated statements, which threaten, insult, or degrade persons based on their religion.”

And this law was used by the Danish government to condemn “anti-Semitic” activities and investigate them, as mentioned in the human rights report made by the US Department of State regarding Denmark in 2004:

“From January through June, there were five incidents of anti-Semitic vandalism, primarily graffiti, and one incident of an anti-Semitic mailing, which the government condemned and investigated.”

Why a different stand when it comes to Islam?


history rules - 2/25/2006

A correction: Actually, mohammed killed women or had them killed - such as a poetess who recited poems critical of m. and he had women and children enslaved after killing all the men (600?) of a Jewish tribe in Medina after they had surrendered. If you want the verses from the koran just ask.

PS I left out the capitalization as a sign of disrespect for mohammed who was the luckiest (if the man who wounded him had only hit him again - just to make sure!!) and most overrated brigand in history (one of his first actions was to attack a caravan during one of the then existing truce months.

Great guy to have as a neighbor - if you live in a well protected house.

If muslims actually read the koran, they might start to question their faith? Naahhh,
too much early indoctrination.

Jim
USA


Mark Linham - 2/24/2006

S Misra:

The problem we're faced with, with respect to much of the Muslim world, derives from the failure of the Enlightenment - that is, the advent of freethought, science and reason - to penetrate the environs of Islam, in the same way that it has the environs of Christendom. It's just one of those damnable accidents of history.

Christianity had a period - the teachings of Christ, notwithstanding - when it practiced incredible barbarism: burnings at the stake for heretics (those who merely questioned Church dogma, or authority), the burning of "witches", persecutions and pogroms, and so forth, torture: the thumb-screw and the rack, etc. This was because of the entanglement of church and state, or in essence, the forcible interference in what otherwise would have been freedom of thought, and the free exercise by each individual of their own values and convictions. The West has largely managed to throw off this vicious paradigm - not completely, but mostly, while the Muslim world, in its entirety, hasn't.

In the context of freedom - and this is only possible when political and religious freedom exists - one need not fear the "offensive" opinions, or practices, of others, because one is then free to not deal with those who affront one's beliefs. One is also, then, free to pursue the truth, which has the effect of building genuine self-esteem, which, in turn, has the effect of making verbal "insults" from others less threatening to one's ego.



Mark Linham - 2/24/2006

Tinky Winky


infidel - 2/24/2006

oh yeah? OH YEAHH??!!!! oh. yeah.


S Misra - 2/24/2006

Mark Linham:

I'm not sure what the solution to fanatical murderers is. I know what is right, to turn the other cheek, to allow one's self to suffer to teach the other person a better way, but for that to work, the other person has to have a conscience. Unfortunately, violent religions build a violent conscience. They excuse the killing of nonbelievers, I am sure, even if they are nonviolent. I do believe one has the right to defend one's self from being murdered. Knowing Islam's past, I know they are capable of over one thousand years of unrelenting violence, and be proud of it. I wish they could be reasoned with, but I think for now, while we attempt to reason with them, we must prevent the murderers among them from hurting innocent people. If in the process they die, they die. It is a practical way, but I am not sure it is the most moral way, but, again, I think nonviolence is incomprehensible to those who believe in it as sacred.


Slater - 2/24/2006

So.. you're calling me a Teletubby?


Smile - 2/24/2006

Why you muslims is very easy to be angry?
in Europa, USA, people is not so easy to be provoked, if you try to insult them by one or other way, they will ignore your insult.
I see many muslims running amuck on the street, their faces look like some lions, not human being.
Many people died for nothing.
wise muslims will avoid involving itself in that kind of violence.
We can avoid completely some kind of provokation,and insult in this imperfect world. And it will happen again in one or other country and wise muslims will keep his mind cool.
Live is holy!


infidel - 2/24/2006

sorry, Left out
9. Loud-mouthed Hedonists. ;)

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/islam-comments-a-cheap-shot/2006/02/24/1140670236214.html?page=2


infidel - 2/24/2006

Just who ARE THESE SAVAGES CHANTING "DEATH TO DENMARK"? HUH? Can there possibly be any OTHER TOWERING justification for a determined, organized "final solution" for this cult?

death to WHO? (WHOM?)

Death to DENMARK??????????

What the HELL. This is surreal. How low can these moslems GET? what next? "Death to teletubbies?"


Mark Linham - 2/24/2006

CORRECTION:

"ruper rich" - super rich


Mark Linham - 2/24/2006

I hope you're right as to a positive outcome to our foreign policy.

I suppose that's possible. Although. I question the wisdom of busting up a relatively secular dictatorship - a *very* bad thing, to be sure - only to have it likely replaced (albeit through democratic processes) with a Shiite theocracy. Truly the proverbial "out of the frying pan, into the fire" situation.
At any rate, I suppose it does still remain to be seen what happens in Iraq.

Our domestic quality of life under the Republicans, however - as always, when that party takes over - is certainly threatened to be greatly reduced, for all but the ruper-rich.
And these people promote a strongly Christian fundamentalist version of the theocratic agenda. Something that - in at least some of its manifestations - is just as dangerous, and just as bad for human life, as Islamic theocracy.

If freedom is going to enjoy a long-term, or even semi-permanent victory, both the Bush agenda *and* the Islamicist fanatics' agenda must be rejected.

Our answer, in effect, to the religious dominionist/New World Order pincer:
"We want no part of ye. We want our lives back!"

This being said, I also hope for unexpected silver linings in our otherwise dark clouds.


marcel - 2/24/2006

I agree and will help.
Freedom is stronger than ignorancy.
We shall overcome....
Marcel from Spain


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/24/2006

Mark,
Did you consider the idea that Bush has a very little appreciated vision of what the middle east is going through? Do you see that his plan, although slow and painful, but is a good one to make change in the M.E? All the problems we are seeing now are caused by those who hate the change, but the change is coming, and I am happy to tell you that a lot of is attributed to his vision. I know that the left media portrays him as a stupid Texan, but time will show you that he is anything but that.

I can tell that you disagree with him on social issues (and I do on some too) but I hope you give him credit for standing up to his convections.

Vote by your convictions. That's a smart strategy.


Mark Linham - 2/24/2006

As I speak - and thanks to a long list of things, including the recent Bush appointment of a certain Samuel Alito to our Supreme Court - I've pretty much lost my country to our right-wingers. DAMN THEM!

Our "opposition" party, the Democratic Party, is all but worthless, as a result of a long, long list of truly craven sellouts over the years, on the part of much of that party's "leadership".

There are still some truly wonderful Democrats - Rep. Cynthia McKinney, of Georgia, to name the most luminous example - but they are not numerous, or politically powerful enough to save that party, in my opinion.

So, I've decided to vote my convictions next time, as closely as possible, and without the compromises that I've heretofore had to make to vote the Democrat ticket. This, even though my vote will arguably be "wasted". Rightists control all three branches of our national government, effectively decimating any checks and balances against the Republican (Nazi) Party's power. And so, we're at a point over here in the States when we really have nothing to lose by making a desperate bid to create a new political opposition.

This is what we must do.

I don't think either of us is a praying man - I know I'm not; but if we were, I would say, pray for us!


Mark Linham - 2/24/2006

POSTSCRIPT:

..oh yes, and Mr Clinton also was an agressive champion of firearms confiscation, even though the presence of such a weapon in the hands of the law-abiding actually saves lives, and our Article Two, of the Bill of Rights, says that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; and despite the fact that westerners - now more than ever, because of religious terrorism - need every resource at their disposal for self-defense!


and the list just goes on and on...


Mark Linham - 2/24/2006

Again, well put, Slater.

Bill Clinton (who I voted for both times - I'm sorry) has been something of a disappointment to me over the years, on a number of different issues, in addition to this one.

I can't list them all, but here are just a few of the highlights:

Approved NAFTA and GATT, which concentrates exponentially more unaccountable power in the hands of giant multinational corporations, who are now free to progressively flout environmental protection and worker protection rules, "outsource" (to countries that allow slave labor and child labor, etc,

Set his "Justice" Department dogs on our state of California, for their "crime" of following a course of compassion for the terminally ill who find relief in marijuana,

"Welfare Reform", which, of course, penalizes the unfortunate poor, while we still retain a system of corporate cronyism, "no-bid" contracts and corporate welfare,

Trying to censor the Internet. (an exercise in sheer futility on his part, but truly outrageous that he attempted it!),

etc...

So, of course, he is against free speech.. naturally.


Slater - 2/24/2006

Btw, Bill Clinton too has condemned the cartoons. Back in late january he said something like this (this is an English-to-Danish-to-English translation, so it's probably lost something in the process):

--------------------------------------
"So what are we to do? Replace anti-semitic prejudice with anti-islamic prejudice? Most of the battles we have fought in Europe in the last 50 years have been about fighting anti-semitism"

He described the drawings as horrifying and criticized what he called a tendency to generalize negative news of militant muslims.
--------------------------------------

That's a translation from a Danish newspaper.

Now all this complete babble has NOTHING to do with the cartoons, and only shows that he had no idea what they were all about, and most likely hadn't even seen them.
Obviously he saw an opportunity to get some publicity and took it.

I used to have more respect for this guy than any other US president, but this is just plain idiotic.

Unfortunately people like him and Poul Nyrup are the main reason some people resort to violence. They make violence WORK!
As long as the religious extremists feel they are winning something by the threats, riots and violence, they have no reason to stop, and they WILL do it again the next time someone or something slightly offends them.

-
Yes, they have the right to believe the cartoons were wrong. But that's not what they are doing. They are not just believing, they are selling the rest of us out by brown-nosing the Muslims and acting like we just didn't know what we were doing.


Slater - 2/24/2006

Unfortunately it is true.
And that's just what I told you in a former post - all the left wing parties (he is a social-democrat), are a bunch of weak cowards, who would rather say they are sorry than stand up for basic human rights and risk a little turmoil.

I have no idea what to do at next election.


Mark Linham - 2/24/2006

POSTSCRIPT:

I have not verified, yet, whether the former Danish PM condemned the cartoons. If he did this - as certain other westerners have - it is an act of moral cowardice.

The core issue is whether we as individuals - and as a global society - will lay the blame for violence where it properly belongs (on the actual perpetrators), and at once protect the freedom of speech and freedom to dissent which is so crucial to a free, civilized society - or if, on the other hand, we'll surrender that supreme value to mindless thugs.

All you western appeasers and apologizers to thuggery: You ought to be ashamed of yourselves! A pox upon your house, too, and I deny that you are my fellows! It's compromisers with evil, like you, who actually do MORE damage to beauty, life and liberty, than the thugs themselves! Go to hell.





Mark Linham - 2/24/2006

Telling you the *truth* about your "holy" religion and your "prophet" humiliates you?

Develop a thicker skin, dumb ass!


Mark Linham - 2/24/2006

You're welcome!


European - 2/24/2006

I Totally agree - we cannot afford the muslims disintegrating like that, over a stupid cartoon... lets make a film about Muhammad instead; then it will be 24 frames/pictures pr second instead - that would surely mean the beginning of a worldwar... no, much worse, an interstellar jihad, to read the universe for any humor whatsoever...

Man, you gyus are really hard taking seriously!


hasan - 2/24/2006

Denmark's former prime minister Poul Nyrup Rasmussen condemned the blasphemous Danish cartoons as "an insult and a humiliation for the people who believe in Islam." "I disagree with those cartoons. I must say it's humiliating, is a lack of respect and it is stupid," Rasmussen told the European Parliament in Brussels during a debate with the head of the Arab League, Amr Moussa.

Yes, indeed, we have to stop. There must be no repetition of these things that still pop up in this and that capital, and no violence either."
"I also appeal to you to see the action and the reaction at the same time. Let's see what we can do for the future. It is our duty to prevent that from reappearing in the European Arab relations, in the Christian Muslim relations, on the relations between civilisations.

We cannot afford other incidents of that kind," he added.


DD - 2/24/2006

Thanks for some good posts in the recent weeks!

A Dane


Jay - 2/24/2006

" It Is A bLeSsInG to Be A mUsLiM wOmEn
SO IF YOU WANT MORE ELABORATION JUST REQUEST ME TO, AND I WILL BE READY FOR YOUR APPROPRIATE DEMANDS."

WhY dO YoU HAvE Too TyPe liKe ThIS ?
Anyways sure, if you were born and raised on a diet of cow shit, you would probably think cow shit is the greatest thing on earth.


jim - 2/24/2006

Where can I find some Koran toilet paper? I'd love to wipe my arse w/ the Muslim holy scriptures printed on Charmin. I've been wiping my mynasty Americamn arse w/ The Penguin Classics Koran but the paper is a bit rough on my delicate bottom!


Mark Linham - 2/24/2006

If she's served by an ISP that does not censor, there are beaucoup resources for her information and edification from all over the Web.

If she's going to go for English language resources, though, I would recommend that she brush up a little bit on English grammar and spelling, first.


Mark Linham - 2/24/2006

Islamic countries don't significantly have economies as it is, just medieval serfdom with extremely repressive theocracies.

No, they have nothing to offer the West - or Denmark - (but enslavement, death and destruction) unless they fundamentally change their ways.

And rather than trying to steal our values, the Islamic militants seek only to destroy them.. They champion and practice destruction for destruction's sake, hate for hate's sake - and as philosopher, Ayn Rand, identified it: hatred of the good for being the good.


Mark Linham - 2/24/2006

POSTSCRIPT:

I also want the ultimate repudiation of all the barbaric religions, or at least all the barbaric versions of the same.

We need something in our lives that speaks to our better selves.. our higher spiritual aspirations, if you will. We just don't need the irrationality. We never needed that.


Mark Linham - 2/24/2006

S Misra,

Yes, that's right: We should challenge the violent and intolerant.
Our response however, should be measured relative to the kind and degree of threat to others that they pose.

For instance, someone may advocate a wicked and pernicious piece of nonsense that, if practiced, would cause misery, death and destruction. In that case we would answer the expression of these notions with an argument - a competing set of ideas that are better and/or evidence that provides a refutation. But otherwise this evil person would remain free. We would simply expose his *ideas* as the rotten nonsense that they are.

If on the other hand we discover that the "advocate" of the bad idea(s) is actually working to carry them out physically - or if it already is clearly evident that he is initiating violence (as in the case of these Muslim rioters) - thus endangering the lives or property of others, then he (or they) should then be physically stopped, possibly prosecuted as a criminal(s), or even killed, if necessary.


S Misra - 2/23/2006

Actually, you Moslems fight for nothing often enough. Just today, your sweet Moslem brothers shot a woman reporter, a fellow Muslim, from al-Arabiya television, along with her Muslim cameramen. That sounds like nothing to me. Killing cartoonists while all Islamdom draws antiSemite cartoons and while, as yesterday, Egyptian Moslems murder Coptic Christians, a sport in Egypt, sounds like nothing to me. Mosa, your arguments have all the strength of a saMosa (a stuffed spicy Indian pastry), with none of the taste.


S Misra - 2/23/2006

Oh you Muslims act like such brothers, but if brother Hasan was Sunni and brother Mohammed Mosa was Shiite, they would be slashing at each other, shooting each other in the head, bombing each other's mosques, burning each other's Korans, and otherwise being good followes of the violent prophet. You say romantic drivel, Mosa, nonsensical claptrap no one swallows.


S Misra - 2/23/2006

Absolutely. Freedom means the freedom not only to disagree, but to express views others hate, yet be protected. However, toleration is not enough. One must challenge those who believe violence is alright. The fact is that Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and a bunch of other religions and philosophies believe in violence. Violence means the strongest, not the most rational, win. Violent religions are false. One day, we will look at them the way we look at worship of Baal, whose bronze image was heated to red hot and babies sacrificed to him. You cannot let those who act holy get away with belief in violence. As Gandhi said, the means is the end. Toleration allows fascists to coexist unchallenged.


S Misra - 2/23/2006

By the way, Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton University, in her book, The Origin of Satan, says Satan is one that changes over time, from Judaism to Christianity. The Moslem idea of Satan is even more different. The Old Testament God is not the same as God as Christ describes him, and Mohammedianism goes back to the violent God, one who on top of being violent, promises orgasms in heaven. Truth can only be known through reason, not violence. Any violent religion is false. Islam is false because it is violent.


S Misra - 2/23/2006

You are wrong. The Koran clearly denounces the Christian idea of God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It also denounces Jews. It recommends killing both if they do not believe. Jesus is nonviolent and Mohammed is violent. Mohammed took advantage of a child sexually through "marriage." If you cannot tell the difference in Christ's message and the violent debased message of Mohammed, who promised 72 virgins with the eyes of fawns and other sensual orgiastic pleasures, you are blind. Christ teaches us to love our enemies and you Mohammedians are taught by the false book, the Koran, to kill. No violent religion is true since violence is the weapon of the morally illogical; they cannot convince others so they kill them. You know Islam is false since your so-called Mohammedian nations refuse to allow evangelism by any other faith. You know that in a contest of ideas, Islam will lose and nonviolent faiths such as Buddhism or Christianity or philosophies of nonviolence will win.


Mark Linham - 2/23/2006

The main point is not whose religion or worldview is right or wrong. Whether one is right or not is something that is - or at least should be - of prime importance to one's self.

No, the central point is freedom of speech, and the right to exist as one is. There is no legitimacy whatsoever to answering an opinion or an argument with force.. NONE. EVER!

If someone wants to burn Danish flags, American flags, deny Christ, worship Satan, advocate perversion, deny or blaspheme Muhammed, deny the Holocaust, champion Nazism, Communism, or whatever.. all of these are protected speech, so long as they are indeed only expressions of opinion, and don't pose a clear and imminent *physical* danger to the lives and health of others.

Of course, you're an idiot if you're an Christian fundamentalist, fanatical Zionist or Muslim, Holocaust denier (it DID happen), or Nazi.. but it is your RIGHT in a free and civilized society to be morally wrong, or an idiot, if you choose to be.

The problem ONLY begins, politically, when you attempt to FORCE yourself - or your views - upon unwilling others.


Proud to be an Infidel - 2/23/2006

Q. If there is only one true god, why have you and billions of others, for so long consistently failed to demonstrate (let alone prove) the existence of such a grand deity?

A. (quotes from holy books go here)


S Misra - 2/23/2006

Muslims can be racist and often are. Arab Muslims do not treat fellow muslims from other nations well as their guest workers, especially if they are not Arab looking, such as from Bangladesh or Africa. Pakistan in part murdered 1-3 million Bengali Muslims because they were smaller and darker than Pakistani Muslims. So, "Just a muslim girl," you are wrong. Please read history. You don't have to be ignorant; ignorance is a choice in the Information Age.


S Misra - 2/23/2006

You are wrong. Islam has started plenty of wars of conquest, many not at all for self defense. India never invaded any Muslim country. In 800 A.D., Muslims invaded India, looted, murdered monks and priests, murdered civilians, burnt libraries at a number of Buddhist and Hindu universities, and looted. You refused, actually, after some time, to convert people, because "Islam," a religion of violence and crudity, taxes non-muslims higher. To continue to loot non Muslims in India, you refused to convert. India was enslaved by Muslims. Of course, you are ignoring all the warfare between Mussalmans. That has been going on since soon after Mohammed's death until today. By the way, you say you are a muslim, but actually, there is no such thing as a muslim, only a Sunni or Shiite, and you hate each other with a bloodlust. So, you are ignorant of history and blinded by your stupidity (stupidity because once you know the truth, you refuse to believe it). If you are not ignorant or stupid, and do know your own history, then you are a dirty liar.


Ben - 2/23/2006

Made you think, didn't it - that muslims are at war with almost everybody on this small planet?...

Religion of peace?

The biggest lie of the new millenium!


Slater - 2/23/2006

Actually, you guys are the racists. Sorry. That argument is just lame.


But.. damn, you almost make me laugh.
Do you seriously believe that the Muslim world can impact western economy in any noticeable way?

If the West and the ME just cut connections entirely, whose economy do you think will be destroyed?

Let me spell it out for the cheap seats:
That would be yours.


Slater - 2/23/2006

>> "i dont know since you dont even get the islamic way and never mada an effort ti evenknow"

The same old argument. "Get to know Islam". WHY?
Getting to know Islam has NO relevance in this case. Zero. Nil. None whatsoever. Why do you keep making this argument?

Try to understand that this conflict is about your ACTIONS. Not the Koran or Islam. Just the fact that you guys are violent, ignorant and insane, which you keep proving.

You want us to see Islam as peaceful?
STOP BEING VIOLENT!


>> "tell ma how can ut get more racism than that???"

How about by threatening all Danes for what one newspaper did? Of course Danes aren't technically a race, but neither are Muslims, so ...


>> "Mohammad well never be touched even if the whole world try"

Then what's the fucking problem? If we didn't offend him, why are you threatening us and demanding an apology?
Leave it alone. That's all we want, but you apparently want a war.


infidel - 2/23/2006

If islam is all these great things you people say it is, then WHY are moslems emigrating to DENMARK - a non-moslem country, instead of staying in their glorious , "free" , islamic countries?

Whats the connection between denmark and moslems, and why should Denmark let you into their clean, beautiful country?

Why aren't moslems emigrating to ANY of the 51 other islamic countries? Can you answer this question?

Islam will never start a war? HUH?
So the moslems are in wars against
1. Jews- Israel
2. hindus -India
3. buddhists -thailand
4. atheists - china
5. animists - Sudan
6. Christians - Britain,U.s,Nigeria
7. Secular humanists/socialists - Continental Europe (France,norway and DENMARK!!!! of all countries)
8. Orthodox Christians/Nihilists - Russia

Because, ALL these groups/peoples are to blame and not "peaceful" islam/moslems?

Two major civilized groups are not at war with Islam: Japan and Latin America. You know why? Because Japan doesn't let moslems into their country in huge numbers. Islam hasn't reached a critical mass in Latin America either. ONCE its reached, then islam will be "oppressed" and the WAR begins. Dumb savages. What a CURSE on the human race this cult is.




BMC - 2/23/2006

And yet in spite of all you claim, brother muslims in Iraq destroy one of the holiest shrines in Islam (and now other mosques are burning in reply).

How ironic.


muslim - 2/23/2006

you talked about freedom .. ha??

well talk about this

what freedom you ask for while the Islamic freedom is davastated by ur actions

you sara talked about Islam

well,did you even know what is Islam??
what is it based on ???
whats its relationship with the non-muslims people??

no ,, you just go on with those people without aglue,,,

by the way,
islam never and well ever stsrt awar or cause harm unless it was selfdefence

so whats your problem??
i dont know since you dont even get the islamic way and never mada an effort ti evenknow us and i dont mean by your media..sorry but thw truth???
they suck

any way these cartoons you ask the freedom for ,,, if it was about your father and they made fun with him in the world.. not just fun but insulted him ,, then youll say olso oh its ok.. its freedom

well try that with the profet of more than abillion muslim,,,

where is their freedom??? tell me??

or they dont have one??? that mean that muslims r not even human

tell ma how can ut get more racism than that???

it just doesnt

and fyi:-
Mohammad well never be touched even if the whole world try,,

he is just out of your lead ,,,

he lives on our hearts ,, our minds

and that darling is afact


Just aMuslim girl - 2/23/2006

go ahead american and but the danish

its youe lost

why??

because then it will be ur time
and its your economy will be destroyed

by the way,,,

ur r the most Racisms People i ever seen


S Misra - 2/23/2006

Once again Hasan with the personal attacks. You are a fountain of illogic, of violence, and hate. In other words, you reflect well the teachings of your prophet Mohammed and his creation, the Koran. He said to kill nonbelievers, and you advocate it. You are a true Muslim, but first, shouldn't you be strapping on a bomb and killing some Sunni or Shiites to take revenge against the heretics, whichever they may be. Heretics are nonbelievers. Kill nonbelievers. Allah through the mouth of Mohammed says for you, little Hasan, to do that. Just do it. Or you could try thinking, reason, debate, ethics, morality, and nonviolence. Light a candle, not a fuse.


S Misra - 2/23/2006

Mohammed is not merciful. Mercy that depends on the giver of mercy is no mercy. One should not have to beg for mercy. The right to not be killed for nonbelief is a human right and Islam violates it by advocating the killing of nonbelievers in the Koran. I can read all I want to about Islam, but the Koran is the final say, and it says believers should kill nonbelievers, including Jews and Christians. Too bad it also means Sunni can kill Shiites as nonbelievers and Shiites can kill Sunni as nonbelievers. When the killing begins, it never ends. That is why, today, some "Muslim" murdered a female correspondent for Al Arabiya. Only a nonviolent philosophy, such as Socratic, or religion, such as that of Jesus or Buddha, has any validity. Mercy means the giver of mercy has power. Jesus says to be a servant of others. That is superior to Mohammed. Mohammed prophesies nothing because ultimately, force is used, violence is used, and, then, far too often, the strongest win. As Socrates says violence does away with reason, and Mohammed is violent, therefore irrational. No amount of nonsense websites or mullahs or imams (a number of whom died at the hands of fellow "Muslims" yesterday in Iraq), can change the degraded nature of Islam, a third rate religion.


Peter, Europe - 2/23/2006

Those drawings were real FUNNY - and a spitting image of the truth (as we have witnessed!)

I think the danish cartoonists did a lot better job, than arab cartoonists, daily helpless and childish attacks on anything jewish!

Your crying is really funny too - actually you are the laughing stock of the entire world... and now that you have resumed blowing other muslims up, again - can we please go back to normal civilised living around the world; excluding fuckups like you and your brainwashed terrorist comrades!
There are muslims living in the western world, that would like to be left alone for a while, as well!
We dont need your braindead reactions, your fucked up islamist hate-imams, and we dont need you - understand!?


Mark Linham - 2/23/2006

Salman Rushdie, Tasleema Nasreen, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, et al, have my full support, thank you very much!


Mark Linham - 2/23/2006

Quite right, Slater.

Just one more thing, though: to rejoin civilization, the Muslims who want Islam to viewed as a religion of peace will have to do more than merely protest those (ersatz?) Muslims who are giving their religion a bad name. They must stop, that is to say, arrest and prosecute - or if necessary, kill - those outlaws; or help, or at least not hinder others with what will be ongoing efforts to do this.

Otherwise their failure/refusal to do this disqualifies them to honestly refute the inevitable, ongoing negative perception that others will continue to have of the Muslim world, and of anything Islamic.


Mark Linham - 2/23/2006

Right. Exactly. And as for that now infamous cartoon of note, what it symbolizes makes it obviously true to any fair-minded person; not of all Muslims, per se, but certainly of some self-described adherents to that religion.

And so, these morons go on to prove, once again, the cartoonists point!


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/23/2006

At least this time he did not try to come across as an "intelligent" terror supporter.

That takes too much online searching, copying and pasting!


Tux.It - 2/23/2006


And they want dialogue ...?

It is as clear as always when
Muslims preach!,
that Islam is about peace, tolerance, love and freedom! In other words
sharia ....

Todays fascism is Islamism


Slater - 2/23/2006

And by once again proving that they are insane and cannot be trusted, Muslims are drawing nearer the day when the West will just turn its back, and let them run around and kill each other by themselves.


Now listen you retard. By supporting the violence and terror coming from the Muslim world, you are making your own religion and country look bad and proving that these cartoons were RIGHT!

I know you must feel very righteous fighting for the honor of a long dead man who doesn't give a shit. But you are not helping him or yourselves by proving your insanity over and over again.


Slater - 2/23/2006

Why do you still believe that knowledge of Islam will change anything?

There are a few facts here:

1: Danes drew cartoons. Slightly offensive perhaps, but they were not meant to offend, and they were not meant for Muslim countries to see.

2: Muslims boycott, kill, burn, purposely offend, riot, threaten and incite terrorism.

Now, it doesn't matter what Islam is SUPPOSED to be, or what the Koran says. These are FACTS that will not change no matter what you say.

If you want Islam to be viewed as a religion of peace, stop lecturing us, and go out and protest against the rabid Islamists who are giving your religion a bad name.


Slater - 2/23/2006

Once again, Mark, you took the words right out of my mouth.. or hands.. or whatever.

That's what I've been saying all along in other forums - although I might have put it a bit less formally, as in:

"If someone calls your mother fat, there are two options: either she IS fat, in which case the person is merely telling the truth, or she is NOT fat, in which case the person is clearly lying, and most likely knows it and is only trying to make you mad. In that case, the only way to let him "win", is by getting mad and taking offense.
This of course applies to any other "offensive" action, including drawing cartoons of a Prophet.


infidel - 2/23/2006

If the white man took off his velvet glove and decided to retaliate against the moslems in their own language (deadly violence) islam would be history by this time tomorrow ;) calm down.


Mark Linham - 2/23/2006

"Islam also protects honor. So, in Islam, insulting others or making fun of them is not allowed."

- also from www.islam-guide.com


This indicates precisely the point some of your people miss that's so crucial to benevolence among human beings. SO WHAT if someone insults you (verbally, that is). If what they are saying is inaccurate, then your "honor" is not affected by it. They are only, in that case, showing their own carelessness, or even lack of honor.
On the other hand, if what they are saying is true, or at least has some factual and contextual merit, then you should be told, so that you can determine if the matter is something that indeed does require your constructive attention.
In either case, one is not harmed - or dishonored - merely by someone else's verbal expression (or cartoons, or music, films, paintings, poems, essays, etc).

If you have honor - or more precisely, genuine self-esteem - then that honor can't be touched by mere words. And if you have political freedom, as we liberal westerners advocate, then you also are able to avoid, or ignore, those who insult you, or affront your convictions. If you are honest, and your convictions, true, then does it really matter what they say?

If there is to be peace among human beings, generally, as I believe you would assert that the Q'uran advocates - and on an individual level, not just between different cultures, but between individuals, even - then there must be the freedom to disagree with, and to criticize, others, even if this seems "insulting" to a party to whatever the controversy.

The only thing that matters is the truth, not whether someone has insulted you (or the prophet, etc).


hasan - 2/23/2006

A small obscured country somewhere in europe, an unknown newspaper with an editor having invisible brain asks the most uncreative mind found on the planet to create some cartoons in order to please his financiers.

The little brat manages to create inflammatory depictions called cartoons by some like-minded creatures.

The brat who calls himself a cartoonist is now found in the company of Salman Rushdie, Tasleema Nasreen, Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

With a bounty on his head he now lives in seclusion and under state protection.

Welcome to the club !


Mark Linham - 2/23/2006

"In light of these and other Islamic texts, the act of inciting terror in the hearts of defenseless civilians, the wholesale destruction of buildings and properties, the bombing and maiming of innocent men, women, and children are all forbidden and detestable acts according to Islam and the Muslims. Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the vast majority have nothing to do with the violent events some have associated with Muslims. If an individual Muslim were to commit an act of terrorism, this person would be guilty of violating the laws of Islam."

- from www.islam-guide.com


If the above were true about Islam - and I hope someday that it is, then I'm closer to being a Muslim than your so-called "leaders" and "holy" men who won't agree to disagree, live and let live, and leave others alone.

I suspect that the above assertion from Islam Guide is out of context, however.



Mark Linham - 2/23/2006

"Islam, a religion of mercy, does not permit terrorism. In the Quran, God has said:

"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)"

If the above were an accurate representation of the Koran's content, then the militants from your culture are hell-bound apostates!

There are no two ways about this.



Mark Linham - 2/23/2006

Your reference to an online guide to Islam amounts to a lengthy non-sequitur. The rules of civilized conduct DEMAND that free expression be protected, no matter who doesn't like it, and that force be banned from human relations..

..this regardless of what any "holy" book says.

If you were an educated, moderate, reasonable Muslim simply referring me to information for my own edification, that would be fine. But, if that were true, you would have no trouble agreeing with the above proposition. The fact that you don't, and instead try to change the subject, gives you away as someone who is part of the problem, here.


muslim - 2/23/2006




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You are here: Islam Guide Home > For More Information on Islam
For More Information on Islam
Suggested Links on Islam:
If you have finished reading the basic (previous) articles in this web site, which are the articles of the book, then it is highly recommended that you visit our partner web site for more information on Islam:

www.IslamReligion.com

Also below are some suggested web pages and web sites for more info. These web pages are not included in the book. All of these links open a new window, so to come back here, close the new window. These links are categorized into the following subjects:


Stories of New Muslims

More on the Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran

More on Muhammad in the Bible

More on the Basic Islamic Beliefs

More on the Life After Death, the Day of Judgment, Paradise, and Hellfire

More on Real Happiness in Islam

General Information on Islam in Brief

General Information on Islam in Depth

In-Depth Articles on Jesus

More on the Prophet Muhammad

Comparative Religion Regarding the Bible and Jesus

Translation of the Meanings of the Holy Quran

Translation of Some Sayings of the Prophet Muhammad

More on Islam on Terrorism

In-Depth Articles on Women in Islam

How to Perform Prayer

To Ask a Live Person About Islam by Phone

Questions and Answers on Islam

Online Islamic Bookstores

Islamic Organizations


n Stories of New Muslims (how they converted, their thoughts, and feelings):

Stories of Converts

Stories of Priests Who Converted to Islam

How Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) Converted to Islam (formerly a famous pop singer)

Stories of New Muslims

My Journey to Islam (from IslamiCity web site)

My Journey to Islam (from IslamOnline web site)

New Muslims’ Stories (from IslamWeb web site)

The Sword of Islam
Discusses how Islam was spread by the sword of Islam (i.e. the truth and rightness of Islam) and not by the sword of steel (i.e. force).

(Back to List of Subjects)


n More on the Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran:

It is the Truth

The Bible, the Quran, and Science (by Dr. Maurice Bucaille) [Notes: 1. Copied from Witness Pioneer web site with permission.
2. Does not include the entire book.]

Science in the Quran (from BeConvinced web site)

Short Articles on the Quran and Science

The Amazing Quran (by Dr. Gary Miller)

The Quran and Modern Science (by Dr. Maurice Bucaille)

Islam and Science (from IslamiCity web site)

(Back to List of Subjects)


n More on Muhammad in the Bible:

More Biblical Prophecies on the Advent of Muhammad (from this web site)

The Bible’s Last Prophet

Muhammad in the Bible

Muhammad is mentioned by his exact name in the Gospel of Barnabas

(Back to List of Subjects)


n More on the Basic Islamic Beliefs:

The Muslim’s Belief

Pillars of Faith

(Back to List of Subjects)


n More on the Life After Death, the Day of Judgment, Paradise, and Hellfire:

The Lowest Rank of Those in Paradise

Paradise According to the Quran and the Prophet’s Sayings

Everlasting Life in Paradise

Some of the Bounties which God has prepared for the Believers in Jannah (Paradise)

Paradise, Its Description, Its Bounties, and Its Intimates

About Paradise, the Hereafter, and What Make the Heart Tender

Descriptions of Paradise from the Quran

Descriptions of Paradise
RealPlayer Audio Lecture from islaam.com,
time 27m:30s.

The Least Torture for Those in Hell

What Happens in the Grave

Remembering the Hereafter

Life After Death

(Back to List of Subjects)


n More on Real Happiness in Islam:

The Way To Achieve Happiness

The Way To Happiness (from al-sunnah.com)

(Back to List of Subjects)


n General Information on Islam in Brief:

Discover Islam (with illustrations)

What is Islam

Introducing Islam

The True Religion

What is the Purpose of Life?

Discover Islam (from IslamOnline web site)

I Want to Embrace Islam But... (wrong excuses for not becoming a Muslim)

The Purpose of Life
RealPlayer Audio Lecture, time 1h:23m. To save, right click then save Part1 & Part2, size about 5.2 MB each.

(Back to List of Subjects)


n General Information on Islam in Depth:

About Islam and Muslims

Be Convinced

Several Valuable Online Booklets on Islam

Several Valuable Online Brochures on Islam

Towards Understanding Islam (an online book)

About Islam (from the MSA at USC)

Articles on Islam in different languages

Islam: Empire of Faith (a PBS film on the history, culture, innovation, and leaders of the Islamic empires)

Online Video Shows on Islam (by Shabir Ally)

Discover Islam Online TV

To Order “A Journey to Explore Islam” CD (a very informative CD with more than 450 subjects on Islam)

(Back to List of Subjects)


n In-Depth Articles on Jesus (most of these articles are from Islam Answers Back web site):

The Bible Denies the Divinity of Jesus

Jesus is Not Son of God According to the Bible and the Quran

Jesus in the Holy Quran

Was Jesus God and Man at the Same Time?

The Truth About Jesus

(Back to List of Subjects)


n More on the Prophet Muhammad :

About the Prophet Muhammad

Twelve Proofs that Muhammad is A True Prophet

From “The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History”

Biography of the Prophet Muhammad

(Back to List of Subjects)


n Comparative Religion Regarding the Bible and Jesus:

Islam Answers Back

The Bible, the Quran, and Science (by Dr. Maurice Bucaille) [Notes: 1. Copied from Witness Pioneer web site with permission.
2. Does not include the entire book.]

Confessions of the New American Bible (from Islam Answers Back web site)

Bible Contradictions (from Islam Answers Back web site)

Short Articles on Comparative Religion

The Plain Truth

(Back to List of Subjects)


n Translation of the Meanings of the Holy Quran:

The Noble Quran

In the Shade of the Quran - Part 30 (commentary on the last 37 chapters of the Quran)

Lord’s Words (the Holy Quran categorized into topics)

To Order The Holy Quran, a translation by Saheeh International (one of the best translations)

(Back to List of Subjects)


n Translation of Some Sayings of the Prophet Muhammad :

Riyad-us-Saliheen

Saheeh Al-Bukhari

Saheeh Muslim

A Collection from Different Books

(Back to List of Subjects)


n More on Islam on Terrorism:

Islam, Muslims, and Violence (a special report and coverage by IslamOnline web site)

Islam, Jihad (Holy War), and Terrorism

Is Islam A Religion of Terror?

Attack on the USA - A Muslim Response

Islam and Terrorism (by Dr. Bilal Philips)

Tolerance in Islam

Jihad (Holy War) Explained

A Condemning Statement on 9/11 Tragedy by the President of the Committee of Senior Scholars of Saudi Arabia

A Condemning Statement on 9/11 Tragedy by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Judiciary Council of Saudi Arabia

A Condemning Statement on 9/11 Tragedy by Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, an Islamic Scholar

The Islamic Verdict on Hijacking and Kidnapping

The Islamic Verdict on Suicide Bombings

(Back to List of Subjects)


n In-Depth Articles on Women in Islam:

More on Women in Islam (from this web site)

Women in Islam (from About Islam and Muslims web site)

Women in Islam (from BeConvinced web site)

Women in Christianity and Islam in Brief

Women in Christianity and Islam in Depth

(Back to List of Subjects)


n How to Perform Prayer:

The Right Way to Pray

How to Perform Ablution (which is necessary
for Prayer)

The Muslim Prayer

Prayer Time Calculator

(Back to List of Subjects)


n To Ask a Live Person About Islam by Phone:

Toll free Tel. # within the USA and Canada: 1-877-WHY-ISLAM
or 1-877-949-4752
(from 9 am to 9 pm Eastern Standard Time)

(Back to List of Subjects)


n Questions and Answers on Islam (and to submit a question about it):

Ask About Islam (from IslamOnline web site)

Islam Questions and Answers

FAQ on Islam (by Dr. Zakir Naik)

FAQ on Islam (from Lord’s Words web site)

Ask the Scholar (from IslamToday web site)

Questions and Answers About Islam (from IslamWeb web site)

(Back to List of Subjects)


n Online Islamic Bookstores:

Darussalam Publications

Al-Basheer Publications

(Back to List of Subjects)


Islamic Organizations:
Also, If you would like more information on Islam, or if you have any questions or comments, you may contact one of the following organizations (Note: To search for addresses of Islamic centers near you, please visit Islamic Finder):


1) The United States:

Islamic Assembly of North America
3588 Plymouth Road, Suite # 270,
Ann Arbor, MI 48105, USA
Tel.: (734) 528-0006 - Fax: (734) 528-0066
E-mail: IANA@IANAnet.org

Islamic Foundation of America
PO Box: 3415, Merrifield, VA 22116, USA
Tel.: (703) 914-4982 - Fax: (703) 914-4984
E-mail: info@ifa.ws

Alharamain Islamic Foundation
1257 Siskiyou Blvd., no. 212,
Ashland, OR 97520, USA
Tel.: (541) 482-1116 - Fax: (541) 482-1117
E-mail: haramain@alharamain.org

Understanding Islam Foundation
11153 Washington Pl., Culver City,
CA 90232, USA
Tel. and Fax: (301) 558-9865
E-mail: info@understandingislam.us

World Assembly of Muslim Youth
PO Box: 8096, Falls Church,
VA 22041-8096, USA
Tel.: (703) 820-6656 - Fax: (703) 783-8409
E-mail: support@wamyusa.org

Islamic Information Institute
of Dar-us-Salam
5301 Edgewood Rd., College Park,
MD 20740-4623, USA
Tel.: (301) 982-9463 - Fax: (301) 982-9849
E-mail: iiid@islamworld.net

Al Jumuah Magazine
PO Box: 5387, Madison,
WI 53705-5387, USA
Tel.: (608) 277-1855 - Fax: (608) 277-0323
E-mail: info@aljumuah.com

2) Canada:

Islamic Information & Da’wah Center International
1168 Bloor Street West, Toronto,
Ontario M6H 1N1, Canada
Tel.: (416) 536-8433 - Fax: (416) 536-0417
E-mail: comments@islaminfo.com

3) The United Kingdom:

Al-Muntada Al-Islami Centre
7 Bridges Place, Parsons Green,
London SW6 4HW, UK
Tel.: 44 (0207) 736 9060
Fax: 44 (0207) 736 4255
E-mail: muntada@almuntada-alislami.org

Jam’iat Ihyaa’ Minhaaj Al-Sunnah
PO Box: 24, Ipswich, Suffolk IP3 8ED, UK
Tel. and Fax: 44 (01473) 251578
E-mail: mail@jimas.org

4) Saudi Arabia:

Alharamain Islamic Foundation
PO Box: 69606, Riyadh 11557, Saudi Arabia
Tel.: (966-1) 465-2210 - Fax: (966-1) 462-3306
E-mail: haramain@alharamain.org

World Assembly of Muslim Youth
PO Box: 10845, Riyadh 11443, Saudi Arabia
Tel.: (966-1) 464-1669 - Fax: (966-1) 464-1710
E-mail: info@wamy.org


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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Preface


Chapter 1
Some Evidence for the Truth of Islam


(1) The Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran

A) The Quran on Human Embryonic Development

B) The Quran on Mountains

C) The Quran on the Origin of the Universe

D) The Quran on the Cerebrum

E) The Quran on Seas and Rivers

F) The Quran on Deeps Seas and Internal Waves

G) The Quran on Clouds

H) Scientists’ Comments on the Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran (with RealPlayer Video)

(2) The Great Challenge to Produce One Chapter Like the Chapters of the Holy Quran

(3) Biblical Prophecies on the Advent of Muhammad , the Prophet of Islam

(4) The Verses in the Quran That Mention Future Events Which Later Came to Pass

(5) Miracles Performed by the Prophet Muhammad

(6) The Simple Life of Muhammad

(7) The Phenomenal Growth of Islam


Chapter 2
Some Benefits of Islam


(1) The Door to Eternal Paradise

(2) Salvation from Hellfire

(3) Real Happiness and Inner Peace

(4) Forgiveness for All Previous Sins


Chapter 3
General Information
on Islam


What Is Islam?

Some Basic Islamic Beliefs

1) Belief in God

2) Belief in the Angels

3) Belief in God’s Revealed Books

4) Belief in the Prophets and Messengers of God

5) Belief in the Day of Judgment

6) Belief in Al-Qadar

Is There Any Sacred Source Other than the Quran?

Examples of the Prophet Muhammad’s Sayings

What Does Islam Say about the Day of Judgment?

How Does Someone Become a Muslim?

What Is the Quran About?

Who Is the Prophet Muhammad ?

How Did the Spread of Islam Affect the Development of Science?

What Do Muslims Believe about Jesus?

What Does Islam Say about Terrorism?

Human Rights and Justice in Islam

What Is the Status of Women in Islam?

The Family in Islam

How Do Muslims Treat the Elderly?

What Are the Five Pillars of Islam?

1) The Testimony of Faith

2) Prayer

3) Giving Zakat (Support of the Needy)

4) Fasting the Month of Ramadan

5) The Pilgrimage to Makkah

Islam in the United States


For More Information on Islam (not included in the book)

For Suggestions and Comments

For Further Reading on Islam

References

About the Editors

Copyright


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Recitations From the
Holy Quran (RealPlayer)

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Home Page:
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Mark Linham - 2/23/2006

Hail Satan!


momin - 2/23/2006

yes i agrre


muslim - 2/23/2006

In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful

Islam Answers Christians
Q: Who is Allah, and is He the same as God?

A: When talking about God, Muslims automatically think of Allah (swt). Allah, in Arabic language, is "God". He is the Almighty, the One Creator who created the universe, mankind and all other forms of life.

Q: Is it true that Adam was the first messenger of God (swt)?

A: Yes, Adam had the responsibility to convey God's message and laws to his descendants. From the beginning, Adam's message to the first generation of mankind was to worship One True God, Allah (swt).

Q: Who is Satan and what's his name in Arabic?

A: Satan belongs to another form of life "jinnkind" or spirits. His name in Arabic is (Iblis) and he goes by another name "Sheetan" (Devil).

Q: Why does Satan despise humans and desire their destruction?

A: When God (swt) created Adam, God wanted to give Adam some sort of respect, value and position among the other creations. God (swt) commanded the Angels, including Satan from the Jinn, to prostrate to Adam as a sign of respect and not as a sign of worship. All prostrated to Adam but Satan. Satan was a mighty & a distinguished Jinn. God (swt) asked him what made you not prostrate to Adam and disobeyed my commandment? Satan replied, I am better than Adam, you created him from Clay and created me from Fire. God (swt) cursed Satan. Satan vowed to destroy Adam and his descendants forever.

Q: I am still confused, I thought Satan was an Angel like Gabriel and he has no free will but to worship God?

A: False. If Satan was an Angel, then we wouldn't have any problems with him at all. Angels are a special creation of God (swt). God (swt) created Angels from divine light (Nur). Angles don't have free will in doing things but to worship God (swt) and obey his commandments. Satan, on the other hand, is a Jinn "spirit", and like humans, Satan and his race "jinnkind" have free will in their actions; free will of doing good and free will of doing bad. Ref. QURAN (18:50)

Q: Why did God (swt) send messengers, and why not instead, communicated with us directly?

A: First, that is God's (swt) will. Second, and because of God's greatness and might, humans, in their earthly bodies, can't withstand God's direct presence. We would die instantly if God (swt) would to manifest Himself to us. Only from the mercy of God (swt) prophet Moses (as) fell unconscious when God (swt) began manifesting him self near the mount. The mount itself exploded to pieces. God's messengers are nothing but human beings, who ate like us, dressed like us, grew up amongst us, spoke our language in order for mankind to comprehend what they utter. God (swt) equipped His messengers with miracles to prove the authenticity of their message.

Q: What is Islam, and what does the word "Islam" mean?

A: Islam is God's eternal message to mankind. Islam originated by our father Adam (as) and then the torch was passed on to other God's elect messengers. Islam's message was, still and will be the belief in and submission to ONE God (swt), the Creator and the Sustainer of all things, the Exalted and the Redeemer of all things. The word Islam itself means "submission and surrendering" to God (swt).

Q: What is the deal with the term(s) "Mohammadeen", "Muhammedanism" or Mohammedans in Islam?

A: There are no such terms at all. Other religions have been named after their founders or after the community in which the religion was prospered. For example, Christianity has been named after Christ. Judaism after the tribe of Judah, and Buddhism after Buddha. Westerners falsely gave the name "Muhammedanism" or Mohammadeen" to Islam after Mohammad (pbuh) the prophet of Islam, and also called his followers "Mohammedans". Islam and Muslims are the words of the QURAN (27:31), (3:19) & (22:78). Again, Islam is God's eternal message to mankind that originated by Adam (as) and sealed by prophet Mohammad (pbuh).

Q: I heard something about the 5 pillars of Islam and the 5 pillars of faith. Could you elaborate more on these pillars?

A: You are right! Islam has two different types of pillars: The pillars of Islam and the pillars of faith in Islam. The 5 pillars of Islam are: "Al-Shahadatan" the testimony that there is no God but Allah and Mohammad is Messenger of Allah, performing prayer (Salah), giving Alms (Zakah), fasting (Sawm), and performing Pilgrimage (Hajj) for those who are able.

The 5 pillars of Faith in Islam are: The belief in One God, Allah (swt), the belief in His Angels, the belief in His Scriptures, the belief in His Messengers, and the belief in Judgment Day.

Q: Who is Mohammad?

A: Mohammad (pbuh) was born in Mecca 570 AD. At age forty he was elected by God (swt) to convey His Message to mankind. The Message is to worship only One God, Allah (swt). Mohammad (pbuh) spent the last 23 years of his life conveying God's Message to all people. Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) died at age 63 and his resting place lies in the city of Medina in Saudi Arabia. He is God's final Messenger to mankind. Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) came to re-institute Islam, the religion of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (as). The following prophecy is obtained from the Bible regarding Mohammad's cometh from Arabia. In HABAKKUK 3:3 " God (Jesus) came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise." The place of Teman is the area located southeast of Palestine, and Paran is the area of Mecca in Saudi Arabia where the Holy One (Mohammad pbuh) came from.

Q: Are you telling me both Moses and Jesus were Muslims? If so, prove it and I would like to see something from the Bible in this regard?

A: Both Moses and Jesus (as) were Muslims, since both had conveyed the very same Message, "Submission and surrendering" to One God (swt). Here is the proof from the Bible: Moses said: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is ONE Lord." (DEUTERONOMY 6:4). Approximately 1500 years later Jesus said: "...The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is ONE Lord." (MARK 12:29), and of course Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) came along approximately 600 years later, bringing identical message again: "And your God is ONE God: There is no God but He, ..." (The QURAN 2:163)

Q: I am still confused, if Mohammad was to be God's final and most glorified Prophet, how come we don't see his name in the Bible?

A: Mohammad's name is indeed mentioned in the original Bible manuscripts. The word "Mahmad" is found in the original Hebrew manuscript and it means the "desired one", or the "glorified one". In the 15th century, exactly in 1539, "Great Bible" was the first and official English translated bible to be authorized for public use, and when the Bible was translated to the English language, many words and expressions were translated differently and sometimes omitted altogether, including the word "Mahmad" which is the name of Prophet Mohammad, the prophet of Islam (pbuh). Here is the verse in the Bible: HAGGI 2:7 "And I (God) will shake all nations, and the "desire one" of all nations shall come."

Also the Bible says: Deuteronomy 18:18-19 "" I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.""

Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was similar to Moses (as) and he was the only prophet from whose mouth the words of God were spoken (Quran). Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) spoke in God's name all the time. Also in Isaiah 51:4, it is said that there will be a new law for all the people. Also, in Isaiah 66:20, it was made clear that the prophet would come from BRETHREN, not children of the Israel.

Q: Are you telling me, all other religions are bogus and Islam is the only true religion?

A: Well, isn't that the case with all religions! Every religion claims that he is right and others are wrong. Islam is the belief in One God, Allah (swt), the Creator of all things. Islam doesn't believe in the "middleman" fallacy as the case with many religions including Christianity. In Christianity, to be saved you have to believe in Jesus (as) as the Son of God, and without such confession and belief in Jesus, you're most definitely going to Hellfire. Islam, on the other hand, declares that believing in One God, Allah (swt) and that Mohammad is His messenger, and obeying God's laws and His prophet's doctrine is the only passport to Heaven.

Q: Is it really sensible that God will reward Heaven only to Muslims and punish others that can easily add up to millions or even billions of people of various religions?

A: Yes it is very sensible. If you read both the Bible and the Quran you will uncover that God (swt) severely punished the unbelievers and the wicked people through out the history of mankind. That includes the people of Prophet Noah (as), the people of Prophet Abraham (as), Lot, Moses (as), etc... Numbers don't mean a thing in the eyes of God (swt) and that shouldn't be considered as an exception at all. Only faith counts and not numbers.

Q: But what about people in our time! We don't know anything about Islam and Mohammad! Would that be considered against us on Judgment Day?

A: Yes it will be considered against you. Before the cometh of prophet Mohammad (pbuh), God (swt) vowed not to punish people or hold them responsible without sending messengers. Unlike Moses & Jesus (as), prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was very distinct since he was sent to all mankind with God's final message to humanity and before Judgment Day. Everybody, the least, heard of Mohammad's name. We live in the information age, and within our finger tips, using computers or TVs, we can learn just about anything including religions. The Prophet (pbuh) told us that everyone of us is born a submitter " Muslim" to the One God, the Almighty Allah (swt), but many factors have tendency to force a person to deviate from the right path such as: Satan's influence, Parents, Society, etc.

Q: How many prophets and messengers did God send to mankind?

A: Our prophet (pbuh) told us approximately 124 Thousand prophets and messengers were sent to mankind. The Quran lists 25 of the most popular ones. They are: Adam, Enoch (Idris), Noah, Hud, Salih, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Lot, Jacob (Yaqub), Joseph (Yusuf), Shu'aib, Job (Ayyob), Moses (Musa), Aaron (Haroon), Ezekiel (Dhul-Kifl), David (Dawood), Solomon (Sulaiman), Elias, Elisha (El-Yasa), Jonah (Yunus), Zechariah, John (Yahya), Jesus, and Mohammad, peace be upon them.

Q: Why can't Muslims accept the term "Son of God", even though it is in the Bible and referring to Jesus?

A: The term "Son of God" was used metaphorically speaking to those who were godly and pious men. It was never meant to be used literally as the case with Christianity toward Jesus (as). In fact, the term "Son of God" is used all over the Bible referring to people other than Jesus, check out the following verses: LUKE 3:38 " the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.", GENESIS 6:2 " that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.", EXODUS 4:22 " Then you shall say to Pharaoh, Thus says the LORD, Israel is My son, My firstborn." , JEREMIAH 31:9 "…For I am a father to Israel, And Ephraim is My firstborn.", ROMANS 8:14 "For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.". So how come Christians don't regard those people as Gods, the way they regard Jesus (as)?

Q: Why Muslims don't eat Swine (Pork) meat?

A: For the same reason both Moses & Jesus (as) refused to eat it. God (swt) commanded Muslims not to eat Swine meet. God (swt) also commanded Moses not to eat or even touch the Swine meat as in the following verses in the Bible: LEVITICUS 11:7-8 "and the pig, for though it divides the hoof, thus making a split hoof, it does not chew cud, it is unclean to you. You shall not eat of their flesh nor touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you. "

Q: But hey, we are not Jews! We are Christians governed by Grace and not Law?

A: Who said anything about the Jews. The above verses are found in the Christian Bible. Plus, we all know that God (swt) gave Moses (as) numerous commandments and laws including the Ten Commandments, for people to obey, comply and to adhere to. Jesus (as) came along 1500 years later to re-institute Moses's laws & commandments and that by itself is a sign that Prophets came from the same institution with the same message & guidance. Jesus (as) said: MATTHEW 5:17 " Think not that I am come to make void the law or the prophets; I am not come to make void, but to fulfill." Jesus (as) said: JOHN 14:15 " If you love me, keep my commandments." One of these commandments is not to eat Swine meet. I don't see Grace at all, all I see Laws and Commandments that ought to be followed.

Q: According to Muslims, God vowed to preserve the Quran. How come the earlier scriptures weren't persevered, and after all, they are God's words?

A: Nowhere in the Quran God (swt) promises such protection or preservation to the former scriptures as the case with the Quran. Every prophet was armed with special miracles to prove the authenticity of his message. Moses came to people who rely heavily on magic, so God (swt) gave him immense power through his Cane. Jesus came to people who were known of strong medical abilities, so God (swt) gave him the ability to cure people and even to raise the dead. Both prophets Moses & Jesus (pbut) were sent to specific people (sons of Israel) with the mentioned miracles and the scriptures. On the other hand, Mohammad (pbuh) was sent to people who were fluent in Arabic Language and its grammar. God (swt) gave him the Quran as his Main and lasting Miracle. The Quran is very unique in its originality and delivery, and the Arabic Language is the best to preserve such revelation. Since Mohammad (pbuh) is the final messenger to mankind and the Quran was his Main miracle, God (swt) has promised to protect the Quran forever. Remember, if the miracle dies, then its authenticity will most definitely die and perish. Moses and Jesus (pbut) had their miracles but not in their books, but rather in their actions (the power of the Cane & Healing), and once they're gone, it was easy for people to edit and interpolate their scriptures (Torah & Bible) to fit their own selfish desires. So far, and after 1400 years later, the Quran remains untouched and persevered from corruption. Muslims still believe in Mohammad's original revelation and divine message. The preservation isn't only limited to the text, but to the divine message, and to the delivery and originality.

Q: I heard many comments as in: "bibles aren't identical" or "bibles aren't the same"! In Christianity, we do have the original manuscripts somewhere in Greece, but the bibles we have in our hands are only translation based on those original manuscripts. So, what's the big deal! Don't Muslims have many different English translations that aren't a like?

A: The original Quranic manuscript is written in Arabic Language. Every single Muslim have an identical Arabic copy based on the original Quranic manuscript written in Arabic. When Muslims perform their 5 daily prayers, they recite the Quran in its original language, the Arabic Language. Many Muslims memorize the Quran by heart at young age. The English, Spanish or French Quranic translations are nothing but interpretation to the meanings of the words of the Quran, and they are only used as a reference for those Muslims who don't speak Arabic. Unlike Muslims, almost the majority of Christians don't even know where the original manuscripts are located at. None of the Christian Churches have, in their possession, a copy in either Hebrew or Greek that is based on the original manuscripts. Christians have translations, translations, translations and as for the original Bible, it's buried somewhere overseas collecting dust.

The Bible (OT & NT) has endured many severe predicaments because of the language barrier. The original manuscripts (ancient Hebrew and Aramaic scriptures) were translated to Greek and Latin. In fact, from the year 800 AD to 1539 AD, Latin was the only language of the Bible. Because of the continuous waves of translations; Aramaic, to Greek, to Latin, to English; Christians most definitely and seriously handicapped any attempts to faithfully translate the original author's intended meanings. This problem, all thanks be to the Almighty (swt), has been completely avoided in the Qur'an, since it has remained from the time of its inspiration to the present day in the same language it was originally revealed in, the Arabic Language. The Arabic Language has remained a living language from that day to this, and the book itself has always been in the hands of the people and not "the elite."

The foremost miracle of the Qur'an is in its text. The text of the Arabic language. You can not translate a miracle no matter how you may try. The Arabic language can not be compared to any other language in its intricate complexity, diversity of form, richness of meaning, brevity of parlance, beauty of construct and power of delivery.

Q: I am spiritually confused! What should I do?

A: You owe it to yourself to search for the truth, and I am sure if you have an honest intention searching for the truth, God (swt) will aid you in your endeavor. Read more about Islam and weigh your options. Read more about the early revelations & messengers of God (swt) and comprehend their law & guidance that they had conveyed to their people at that time, then compare all present religions and see which one coincide with the early revelations.

Q: But I am satisfied with my own belief, so why should I pursue other religion in the first place?

A: Remember, mankind has a free will to do whatever he desires, and we are all held accountable for what we do. If you are content with your religion, then you are solely responsible for your actions & belief and no one else.

Q: Is it true the Quran has scientific and medical facts?

A: Yes it is. But remember though, the Quran is not a scientific book. The Quran carries a divine message and guidance from the Almighty (swt) to all mankind. This message touches upon all aspects of human's life including science and medical aspects. When people embraced Islam, it wasn't because of the scientific facts the Quran brought forward, but rather because of the divine message in the belief of the One, the Almighty (swt). People embraced Islam because Islam is a simple religion that is sensible and harmonize with the human instinct. Islam is a complete way of life that is based on fairness, equality, and purity amongst all mankind.

Q: How do I become a Muslim?

A: Unlike other religions, Islam doesn't have certain rituals or baptism by religious groups or individuals. All you need to do is to declare the Testimony (Shahadatan). The Testimony is: "I testify that there is no God but Allah, and Mohammad is the Messenger of Allah". Once you establish this pure belief in your heart, then you can proceed unto the rest of the pillars of Islam. Many Islamic foundations and Mosques will be able to help you getting started learning about Islam..

Q: I noticed various Islamic Sects! Could you list them for me?

A: About 84 % of Muslims are Sunni, the word Sunni is based on the word Sunnah which is an Arabic word means the Prophet's Doctrine. Sunnis believe in Allah (swt) as the One Creator and Mohammad is His last and final Messenger. Also, Sunnis believe in the Quran and Sunnah as the two main sources of Islam. There are, however, Muslim bunches who deviated from the right path of Islam such as: Shia, Baha'i, Sufi, Ahmadiya, etc. So be cautious in knowing who you are dealing with.

Q: What is the total number of Muslims around the world?

A: 1997 Statistics shows a population of 1.78 Billion Muslim. Click here for more details.

Q: Could you list some Islamic countries in the world?

A: Sure, please click here for the list.

Q: Why do Muslims pray so much, you know, 5 times a day! Isn't belief in Allah enough?

A: Besides the fact it's a Commandment from the Almighty (swt), the prayer (Salah) is considered to be a continuos and daily discipline for Muslims. It's true we have the belief in One God (swt) and His messenger Mohammad (pbuh) embedded in our hearts, but like earlier Muslims, God (swt) has proscribed Laws and Commandments for us to observe and adhere to. When we pray, we recite the Quran that has God's genuine words and directions. We also offer supplications and blessings to God (swt). The line of communication between Muslims and God (swt) never slows down ever. The prayer (Salah) itself is considered a supplication to the Almighty (swt).

Q: Is it true that the Bible had prophesied many Islamic Events?

A: Yes it had. The Bible had clearly prophesied the Conquest of Jerusalem at the time of the Muslim Caliph, Omar Ibn Al-Khattab. In the year 637 AD, The people of Jerusalem, mostly Christians & Jews, refused to give up Jerusalem without a personal pledge from Omar that he will spare their lives and let them practice their religion freely and without restraints. Omar traveled from Medina to Jerusalem on an Ass, when the people of Jerusalem saw him, they ran outside welcoming him since Omar had fulfilled a prophecy in the Bible: The Bible says: ZECHARIAH 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy Leader cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass."

Also the Bible had prophesied the Conquest of Mecca by prophet Mohammad (pbuh) along with his 10,000 followers (Sahaba) in 630 AD. DEUTERONOMY 33:2 " And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with 10,000 of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them."

Q: But Mohammad doesn't relate to Abraham?

A: False. Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) is a direct descendent of Prince Kedar. Kedar was the second son of Ishmael, and the children of Kedar later formed a tribe called Quraish, which is Mohammad's tribe. The Bible says: GENESIS 25:13-18 " And these are the names of the sons of Ishmael, by their names, according to their generations: the firstborn of Ishmael, Nebajoth; and Kedar, and Adbeel, and Mibsam, . And Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa, . Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah: . These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations……"

Q: So what about Ishmael! How does he fit in the picture?

A: From the early prophecies found in the Bible. God (swt) blessed Ishmael with twelve sons (princes) and God made a great nation (Muslim nation) from his seed, through prophet Mohammad (pbuh) that reaches from the Euphrates to the Nile forever. The Bible says: GENESIS 17:20 " And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation."

Q: Christians believe that Jesus is the way and their Only Savior, could you give me a solid proof to indicate otherwise?

A: Yes I could, and again, it will be from the Bible. The Bible says: ISAIAH 43:9-11 " Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and show us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. . Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. . I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no Savior."

God (swt) said, to let all nations and people gather together to bear witness to this truth (Islam), and know that I (God) have chosen my servant (Mohammad). And that He is God with none other before or after. The Chapter talks about all nations being unified under one flag (Islam). Also, In verse 11, God very clearly and categorically stated that He is the Only Savior and none else.




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- 2/23/2006

In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful

Islam Answers Christians
Q: Who is Allah, and is He the same as God?

A: When talking about God, Muslims automatically think of Allah (swt). Allah, in Arabic language, is "God". He is the Almighty, the One Creator who created the universe, mankind and all other forms of life.

Q: Is it true that Adam was the first messenger of God (swt)?

A: Yes, Adam had the responsibility to convey God's message and laws to his descendants. From the beginning, Adam's message to the first generation of mankind was to worship One True God, Allah (swt).

Q: Who is Satan and what's his name in Arabic?

A: Satan belongs to another form of life "jinnkind" or spirits. His name in Arabic is (Iblis) and he goes by another name "Sheetan" (Devil).

Q: Why does Satan despise humans and desire their destruction?

A: When God (swt) created Adam, God wanted to give Adam some sort of respect, value and position among the other creations. God (swt) commanded the Angels, including Satan from the Jinn, to prostrate to Adam as a sign of respect and not as a sign of worship. All prostrated to Adam but Satan. Satan was a mighty & a distinguished Jinn. God (swt) asked him what made you not prostrate to Adam and disobeyed my commandment? Satan replied, I am better than Adam, you created him from Clay and created me from Fire. God (swt) cursed Satan. Satan vowed to destroy Adam and his descendants forever.

Q: I am still confused, I thought Satan was an Angel like Gabriel and he has no free will but to worship God?

A: False. If Satan was an Angel, then we wouldn't have any problems with him at all. Angels are a special creation of God (swt). God (swt) created Angels from divine light (Nur). Angles don't have free will in doing things but to worship God (swt) and obey his commandments. Satan, on the other hand, is a Jinn "spirit", and like humans, Satan and his race "jinnkind" have free will in their actions; free will of doing good and free will of doing bad. Ref. QURAN (18:50)

Q: Why did God (swt) send messengers, and why not instead, communicated with us directly?

A: First, that is God's (swt) will. Second, and because of God's greatness and might, humans, in their earthly bodies, can't withstand God's direct presence. We would die instantly if God (swt) would to manifest Himself to us. Only from the mercy of God (swt) prophet Moses (as) fell unconscious when God (swt) began manifesting him self near the mount. The mount itself exploded to pieces. God's messengers are nothing but human beings, who ate like us, dressed like us, grew up amongst us, spoke our language in order for mankind to comprehend what they utter. God (swt) equipped His messengers with miracles to prove the authenticity of their message.

Q: What is Islam, and what does the word "Islam" mean?

A: Islam is God's eternal message to mankind. Islam originated by our father Adam (as) and then the torch was passed on to other God's elect messengers. Islam's message was, still and will be the belief in and submission to ONE God (swt), the Creator and the Sustainer of all things, the Exalted and the Redeemer of all things. The word Islam itself means "submission and surrendering" to God (swt).

Q: What is the deal with the term(s) "Mohammadeen", "Muhammedanism" or Mohammedans in Islam?

A: There are no such terms at all. Other religions have been named after their founders or after the community in which the religion was prospered. For example, Christianity has been named after Christ. Judaism after the tribe of Judah, and Buddhism after Buddha. Westerners falsely gave the name "Muhammedanism" or Mohammadeen" to Islam after Mohammad (pbuh) the prophet of Islam, and also called his followers "Mohammedans". Islam and Muslims are the words of the QURAN (27:31), (3:19) & (22:78). Again, Islam is God's eternal message to mankind that originated by Adam (as) and sealed by prophet Mohammad (pbuh).

Q: I heard something about the 5 pillars of Islam and the 5 pillars of faith. Could you elaborate more on these pillars?

A: You are right! Islam has two different types of pillars: The pillars of Islam and the pillars of faith in Islam. The 5 pillars of Islam are: "Al-Shahadatan" the testimony that there is no God but Allah and Mohammad is Messenger of Allah, performing prayer (Salah), giving Alms (Zakah), fasting (Sawm), and performing Pilgrimage (Hajj) for those who are able.

The 5 pillars of Faith in Islam are: The belief in One God, Allah (swt), the belief in His Angels, the belief in His Scriptures, the belief in His Messengers, and the belief in Judgment Day.

Q: Who is Mohammad?

A: Mohammad (pbuh) was born in Mecca 570 AD. At age forty he was elected by God (swt) to convey His Message to mankind. The Message is to worship only One God, Allah (swt). Mohammad (pbuh) spent the last 23 years of his life conveying God's Message to all people. Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) died at age 63 and his resting place lies in the city of Medina in Saudi Arabia. He is God's final Messenger to mankind. Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) came to re-institute Islam, the religion of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (as). The following prophecy is obtained from the Bible regarding Mohammad's cometh from Arabia. In HABAKKUK 3:3 " God (Jesus) came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise." The place of Teman is the area located southeast of Palestine, and Paran is the area of Mecca in Saudi Arabia where the Holy One (Mohammad pbuh) came from.

Q: Are you telling me both Moses and Jesus were Muslims? If so, prove it and I would like to see something from the Bible in this regard?

A: Both Moses and Jesus (as) were Muslims, since both had conveyed the very same Message, "Submission and surrendering" to One God (swt). Here is the proof from the Bible: Moses said: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is ONE Lord." (DEUTERONOMY 6:4). Approximately 1500 years later Jesus said: "...The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is ONE Lord." (MARK 12:29), and of course Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) came along approximately 600 years later, bringing identical message again: "And your God is ONE God: There is no God but He, ..." (The QURAN 2:163)

Q: I am still confused, if Mohammad was to be God's final and most glorified Prophet, how come we don't see his name in the Bible?

A: Mohammad's name is indeed mentioned in the original Bible manuscripts. The word "Mahmad" is found in the original Hebrew manuscript and it means the "desired one", or the "glorified one". In the 15th century, exactly in 1539, "Great Bible" was the first and official English translated bible to be authorized for public use, and when the Bible was translated to the English language, many words and expressions were translated differently and sometimes omitted altogether, including the word "Mahmad" which is the name of Prophet Mohammad, the prophet of Islam (pbuh). Here is the verse in the Bible: HAGGI 2:7 "And I (God) will shake all nations, and the "desire one" of all nations shall come."

Also the Bible says: Deuteronomy 18:18-19 "" I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.""

Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was similar to Moses (as) and he was the only prophet from whose mouth the words of God were spoken (Quran). Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) spoke in God's name all the time. Also in Isaiah 51:4, it is said that there will be a new law for all the people. Also, in Isaiah 66:20, it was made clear that the prophet would come from BRETHREN, not children of the Israel.

Q: Are you telling me, all other religions are bogus and Islam is the only true religion?

A: Well, isn't that the case with all religions! Every religion claims that he is right and others are wrong. Islam is the belief in One God, Allah (swt), the Creator of all things. Islam doesn't believe in the "middleman" fallacy as the case with many religions including Christianity. In Christianity, to be saved you have to believe in Jesus (as) as the Son of God, and without such confession and belief in Jesus, you're most definitely going to Hellfire. Islam, on the other hand, declares that believing in One God, Allah (swt) and that Mohammad is His messenger, and obeying God's laws and His prophet's doctrine is the only passport to Heaven.

Q: Is it really sensible that God will reward Heaven only to Muslims and punish others that can easily add up to millions or even billions of people of various religions?

A: Yes it is very sensible. If you read both the Bible and the Quran you will uncover that God (swt) severely punished the unbelievers and the wicked people through out the history of mankind. That includes the people of Prophet Noah (as), the people of Prophet Abraham (as), Lot, Moses (as), etc... Numbers don't mean a thing in the eyes of God (swt) and that shouldn't be considered as an exception at all. Only faith counts and not numbers.

Q: But what about people in our time! We don't know anything about Islam and Mohammad! Would that be considered against us on Judgment Day?

A: Yes it will be considered against you. Before the cometh of prophet Mohammad (pbuh), God (swt) vowed not to punish people or hold them responsible without sending messengers. Unlike Moses & Jesus (as), prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was very distinct since he was sent to all mankind with God's final message to humanity and before Judgment Day. Everybody, the least, heard of Mohammad's name. We live in the information age, and within our finger tips, using computers or TVs, we can learn just about anything including religions. The Prophet (pbuh) told us that everyone of us is born a submitter " Muslim" to the One God, the Almighty Allah (swt), but many factors have tendency to force a person to deviate from the right path such as: Satan's influence, Parents, Society, etc.

Q: How many prophets and messengers did God send to mankind?

A: Our prophet (pbuh) told us approximately 124 Thousand prophets and messengers were sent to mankind. The Quran lists 25 of the most popular ones. They are: Adam, Enoch (Idris), Noah, Hud, Salih, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Lot, Jacob (Yaqub), Joseph (Yusuf), Shu'aib, Job (Ayyob), Moses (Musa), Aaron (Haroon), Ezekiel (Dhul-Kifl), David (Dawood), Solomon (Sulaiman), Elias, Elisha (El-Yasa), Jonah (Yunus), Zechariah, John (Yahya), Jesus, and Mohammad, peace be upon them.

Q: Why can't Muslims accept the term "Son of God", even though it is in the Bible and referring to Jesus?

A: The term "Son of God" was used metaphorically speaking to those who were godly and pious men. It was never meant to be used literally as the case with Christianity toward Jesus (as). In fact, the term "Son of God" is used all over the Bible referring to people other than Jesus, check out the following verses: LUKE 3:38 " the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.", GENESIS 6:2 " that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.", EXODUS 4:22 " Then you shall say to Pharaoh, Thus says the LORD, Israel is My son, My firstborn." , JEREMIAH 31:9 "…For I am a father to Israel, And Ephraim is My firstborn.", ROMANS 8:14 "For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.". So how come Christians don't regard those people as Gods, the way they regard Jesus (as)?

Q: Why Muslims don't eat Swine (Pork) meat?

A: For the same reason both Moses & Jesus (as) refused to eat it. God (swt) commanded Muslims not to eat Swine meet. God (swt) also commanded Moses not to eat or even touch the Swine meat as in the following verses in the Bible: LEVITICUS 11:7-8 "and the pig, for though it divides the hoof, thus making a split hoof, it does not chew cud, it is unclean to you. You shall not eat of their flesh nor touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you. "

Q: But hey, we are not Jews! We are Christians governed by Grace and not Law?

A: Who said anything about the Jews. The above verses are found in the Christian Bible. Plus, we all know that God (swt) gave Moses (as) numerous commandments and laws including the Ten Commandments, for people to obey, comply and to adhere to. Jesus (as) came along 1500 years later to re-institute Moses's laws & commandments and that by itself is a sign that Prophets came from the same institution with the same message & guidance. Jesus (as) said: MATTHEW 5:17 " Think not that I am come to make void the law or the prophets; I am not come to make void, but to fulfill." Jesus (as) said: JOHN 14:15 " If you love me, keep my commandments." One of these commandments is not to eat Swine meet. I don't see Grace at all, all I see Laws and Commandments that ought to be followed.

Q: According to Muslims, God vowed to preserve the Quran. How come the earlier scriptures weren't persevered, and after all, they are God's words?

A: Nowhere in the Quran God (swt) promises such protection or preservation to the former scriptures as the case with the Quran. Every prophet was armed with special miracles to prove the authenticity of his message. Moses came to people who rely heavily on magic, so God (swt) gave him immense power through his Cane. Jesus came to people who were known of strong medical abilities, so God (swt) gave him the ability to cure people and even to raise the dead. Both prophets Moses & Jesus (pbut) were sent to specific people (sons of Israel) with the mentioned miracles and the scriptures. On the other hand, Mohammad (pbuh) was sent to people who were fluent in Arabic Language and its grammar. God (swt) gave him the Quran as his Main and lasting Miracle. The Quran is very unique in its originality and delivery, and the Arabic Language is the best to preserve such revelation. Since Mohammad (pbuh) is the final messenger to mankind and the Quran was his Main miracle, God (swt) has promised to protect the Quran forever. Remember, if the miracle dies, then its authenticity will most definitely die and perish. Moses and Jesus (pbut) had their miracles but not in their books, but rather in their actions (the power of the Cane & Healing), and once they're gone, it was easy for people to edit and interpolate their scriptures (Torah & Bible) to fit their own selfish desires. So far, and after 1400 years later, the Quran remains untouched and persevered from corruption. Muslims still believe in Mohammad's original revelation and divine message. The preservation isn't only limited to the text, but to the divine message, and to the delivery and originality.

Q: I heard many comments as in: "bibles aren't identical" or "bibles aren't the same"! In Christianity, we do have the original manuscripts somewhere in Greece, but the bibles we have in our hands are only translation based on those original manuscripts. So, what's the big deal! Don't Muslims have many different English translations that aren't a like?

A: The original Quranic manuscript is written in Arabic Language. Every single Muslim have an identical Arabic copy based on the original Quranic manuscript written in Arabic. When Muslims perform their 5 daily prayers, they recite the Quran in its original language, the Arabic Language. Many Muslims memorize the Quran by heart at young age. The English, Spanish or French Quranic translations are nothing but interpretation to the meanings of the words of the Quran, and they are only used as a reference for those Muslims who don't speak Arabic. Unlike Muslims, almost the majority of Christians don't even know where the original manuscripts are located at. None of the Christian Churches have, in their possession, a copy in either Hebrew or Greek that is based on the original manuscripts. Christians have translations, translations, translations and as for the original Bible, it's buried somewhere overseas collecting dust.

The Bible (OT & NT) has endured many severe predicaments because of the language barrier. The original manuscripts (ancient Hebrew and Aramaic scriptures) were translated to Greek and Latin. In fact, from the year 800 AD to 1539 AD, Latin was the only language of the Bible. Because of the continuous waves of translations; Aramaic, to Greek, to Latin, to English; Christians most definitely and seriously handicapped any attempts to faithfully translate the original author's intended meanings. This problem, all thanks be to the Almighty (swt), has been completely avoided in the Qur'an, since it has remained from the time of its inspiration to the present day in the same language it was originally revealed in, the Arabic Language. The Arabic Language has remained a living language from that day to this, and the book itself has always been in the hands of the people and not "the elite."

The foremost miracle of the Qur'an is in its text. The text of the Arabic language. You can not translate a miracle no matter how you may try. The Arabic language can not be compared to any other language in its intricate complexity, diversity of form, richness of meaning, brevity of parlance, beauty of construct and power of delivery.

Q: I am spiritually confused! What should I do?

A: You owe it to yourself to search for the truth, and I am sure if you have an honest intention searching for the truth, God (swt) will aid you in your endeavor. Read more about Islam and weigh your options. Read more about the early revelations & messengers of God (swt) and comprehend their law & guidance that they had conveyed to their people at that time, then compare all present religions and see which one coincide with the early revelations.

Q: But I am satisfied with my own belief, so why should I pursue other religion in the first place?

A: Remember, mankind has a free will to do whatever he desires, and we are all held accountable for what we do. If you are content with your religion, then you are solely responsible for your actions & belief and no one else.

Q: Is it true the Quran has scientific and medical facts?

A: Yes it is. But remember though, the Quran is not a scientific book. The Quran carries a divine message and guidance from the Almighty (swt) to all mankind. This message touches upon all aspects of human's life including science and medical aspects. When people embraced Islam, it wasn't because of the scientific facts the Quran brought forward, but rather because of the divine message in the belief of the One, the Almighty (swt). People embraced Islam because Islam is a simple religion that is sensible and harmonize with the human instinct. Islam is a complete way of life that is based on fairness, equality, and purity amongst all mankind.

Q: How do I become a Muslim?

A: Unlike other religions, Islam doesn't have certain rituals or baptism by religious groups or individuals. All you need to do is to declare the Testimony (Shahadatan). The Testimony is: "I testify that there is no God but Allah, and Mohammad is the Messenger of Allah". Once you establish this pure belief in your heart, then you can proceed unto the rest of the pillars of Islam. Many Islamic foundations and Mosques will be able to help you getting started learning about Islam..

Q: I noticed various Islamic Sects! Could you list them for me?

A: About 84 % of Muslims are Sunni, the word Sunni is based on the word Sunnah which is an Arabic word means the Prophet's Doctrine. Sunnis believe in Allah (swt) as the One Creator and Mohammad is His last and final Messenger. Also, Sunnis believe in the Quran and Sunnah as the two main sources of Islam. There are, however, Muslim bunches who deviated from the right path of Islam such as: Shia, Baha'i, Sufi, Ahmadiya, etc. So be cautious in knowing who you are dealing with.

Q: What is the total number of Muslims around the world?

A: 1997 Statistics shows a population of 1.78 Billion Muslim. Click here for more details.

Q: Could you list some Islamic countries in the world?

A: Sure, please click here for the list.

Q: Why do Muslims pray so much, you know, 5 times a day! Isn't belief in Allah enough?

A: Besides the fact it's a Commandment from the Almighty (swt), the prayer (Salah) is considered to be a continuos and daily discipline for Muslims. It's true we have the belief in One God (swt) and His messenger Mohammad (pbuh) embedded in our hearts, but like earlier Muslims, God (swt) has proscribed Laws and Commandments for us to observe and adhere to. When we pray, we recite the Quran that has God's genuine words and directions. We also offer supplications and blessings to God (swt). The line of communication between Muslims and God (swt) never slows down ever. The prayer (Salah) itself is considered a supplication to the Almighty (swt).

Q: Is it true that the Bible had prophesied many Islamic Events?

A: Yes it had. The Bible had clearly prophesied the Conquest of Jerusalem at the time of the Muslim Caliph, Omar Ibn Al-Khattab. In the year 637 AD, The people of Jerusalem, mostly Christians & Jews, refused to give up Jerusalem without a personal pledge from Omar that he will spare their lives and let them practice their religion freely and without restraints. Omar traveled from Medina to Jerusalem on an Ass, when the people of Jerusalem saw him, they ran outside welcoming him since Omar had fulfilled a prophecy in the Bible: The Bible says: ZECHARIAH 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy Leader cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass."

Also the Bible had prophesied the Conquest of Mecca by prophet Mohammad (pbuh) along with his 10,000 followers (Sahaba) in 630 AD. DEUTERONOMY 33:2 " And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with 10,000 of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them."

Q: But Mohammad doesn't relate to Abraham?

A: False. Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) is a direct descendent of Prince Kedar. Kedar was the second son of Ishmael, and the children of Kedar later formed a tribe called Quraish, which is Mohammad's tribe. The Bible says: GENESIS 25:13-18 " And these are the names of the sons of Ishmael, by their names, according to their generations: the firstborn of Ishmael, Nebajoth; and Kedar, and Adbeel, and Mibsam, . And Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa, . Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah: . These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations……"

Q: So what about Ishmael! How does he fit in the picture?

A: From the early prophecies found in the Bible. God (swt) blessed Ishmael with twelve sons (princes) and God made a great nation (Muslim nation) from his seed, through prophet Mohammad (pbuh) that reaches from the Euphrates to the Nile forever. The Bible says: GENESIS 17:20 " And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation."

Q: Christians believe that Jesus is the way and their Only Savior, could you give me a solid proof to indicate otherwise?

A: Yes I could, and again, it will be from the Bible. The Bible says: ISAIAH 43:9-11 " Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and show us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. . Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. . I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no Savior."

God (swt) said, to let all nations and people gather together to bear witness to this truth (Islam), and know that I (God) have chosen my servant (Mohammad). And that He is God with none other before or after. The Chapter talks about all nations being unified under one flag (Islam). Also, In verse 11, God very clearly and categorically stated that He is the Only Savior and none else.




Home


AQndrew Heeps - 2/23/2006

no one ask you to come to this country so stop biching and go home


S Misra - 2/22/2006

Now that one of the holy mosques of the Shiites and dozens of Sunni mosques in Iraq are in ruins, now, maybe, but I doubt it, Sunni and Shiites will know how others have felt when they have ruined their places of worship and their libraries. For centuries, this predator religion has burnt Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, Sikh, Christian, and other places of worship. Only a few years ago, they blew up two ancient Buddha statues in Afghanistan and destroyed irreplaceable Greco-Indian art in museums. Finally, when Muslims are contained within their borders, they do what all bullies do, eat each other's children.


Mark Linham - 2/22/2006

The fanatics are issuing warrants for *their own* deaths by mortally threatening innocent people.

The West will win.. it's just a matter of time. That strategic matrix is closing.



Mark Linham - 2/22/2006

I'm not interested in Egyptian singers..

But in her case, I'll make an exception!

She's beautiful *and* smart? Oh my GOD! That's the best!


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/22/2006

I will burn your embassy and flag if you offend me! hehehe, jussssstttt kidding!

Having more Havarti tonight :-)


S Misra - 2/22/2006

And, Oh Mohammed Mosa, Sunni and Shiite are murdering each other and blowing up each other's shrines. Just yesterday a major Shiite shrine was blown up in Iraq and Shiites burnt and took over 60 Sunni mosques. Eight Sunni men were found with bullets to the back of the head. This is what you get when your holy book allows anyone to kill "infidels." The biggest historical infidel to a Sunni is a Shiite and to a Shiite is a Sunni. Unite Muslims indeed. Your prophet is dishonorable for advocating violence in the violence-ridden Koran. Sunni and Shiites are like Siamese twins, joined at the hip, hating each other, slashing each other's throats while crying out for unity. Which ever murderer wins thinks he will get 72 hymens in heaven. What utter idiocy and immorality!


Boris Hall - 2/22/2006

http://alphabetcity.blogspot.com/
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article346376.ece

Death threats against an egyptian female singer.

Where are the protests ?

Boris


S Misra - 2/22/2006

Here's the typical way in which so-called Muslims treat each other:

Sunnis Hit After Shiite Shrine Blast
By ZIAD KHALAF
Associated Press Writer

SAMARRA, Iraq - Assailants wearing uniforms detonated two bombs inside one of Iraq's most revered Shiite shrines Wednesday, blowing the top off its landmark golden dome and spawning mass protests and reprisal attacks against dozens of Sunni mosques.
The brazen assault - the third major attack against Shiite targets in as many days - threatened to enflame religious passions as talks among sectarian and ethnic parties on a new government have bogged down.

No group claimed responsibility for the 6:55 a.m. attack on the Askariya shrine in Samarra, 60 miles north of Baghdad, but suspicion fell on Sunni extremist groups.

Only a few days before, one sect burnt a room full of Korans at a mosque. Only a few days before that one of the sects killed four children in Iraq and two in Pakistan. Only a few days before that, in Iraq, a Sunni group shot up Shiites (or the other way around, you can't tell these Muslims apart according to their actions), then walked up to an innocent woman and shot her at close range in the head.

There is no such thing as Islam, just a violent religion in which all nonbelievers, including others claiming to be Muslim, can be killed by murderers, price put on peoples' heads, and all in the name of the Koran and the so-called prophet.

I suggest to those fools in Islam who believe there is an "Islam," that they should first purify their faith, kill off the offending sect to the last man, woman, and child, like the couple who walked into the Lebanese wedding and thought nothing of murder bombing innocent men, women, and children. Until then, leave civilized people alone.

Or, better yet, reject your violent and therefore irrational faith and become nonviolent. The means is the end, as Gandhi said. Convince others by your words and deeds, not your misdeeds. Give up the murderous and punitive Koran and embrace a nonviolent faith such as that of Jesus or Buddha. Your Koran demands you murder nonbelievers; Jesus and Buddha both say to love your enemy, that hate is not conquered by hate.


S Misra - 2/22/2006

You don't have to drink. Buddha never said one thing about God other than it was not meaningful. He said in one story, that two people were standing by the edge of some woods, one was shot by an arrow coming out of the woods. Buddha said it would be absurd to ask what the nature of the person who shot the arrow was, you should just take care of the wounded person next to you. But you can also drink. Jesus says there are many who act like they love God, but don't feed the hungry or give water to the thirsty and these uncaring people, even if they do not know they are violating God's ethics, are; likewise, there are many who don't know they know God but do right to the unfortunate and God knows them and is kindly disposed toward them. All philosophy and religion begins with beliefs like there is such a thing as "good" and that it is worth getting. Of course, you can believe in live and let die, but it will, in real life, cost you dearly. You will be hated and despised, alone and unwanted, avoided by the people you hurt.


John Einser - 2/22/2006

Another bombing, this time of a Shia holy shrine by Sunni extremists. While there are protests and calls for revenge by Iraqis, where are the protests from Muslims around the world?

The answer is there are none. I just saw on British television a report in which many Muslims (both moderates and fundamentalists) are denying this occurred by Sunnis, and instead are blaming the CIA (American), Mossad (Israeli), or some European agency.

While I was against the war, I have recently been supporting the idea of maintaining US/UK troops in the region to restore some security, and prevent terrorists from gaining control of the country. However, I may be changing my mind. We should just leave, let them blow themselves up, and when terrorists gain control, let their so-called "moderates" live with their lack of courage to stand up, look in the mirror, and come to the realization that they need to regain control of their religion. You can't blame the West for everything, you are going to have to face the reality that MUSLIMS are the root of much that is wrong in the world today.

Don't get me wrong, I think the West has also been a huge source of problems. However, many Westerners have admitted this, and have worked to get our "fundamentalists" out of power. You need to do the same!


AoFo - 2/22/2006


He is just trying his best
to be friendly .....
Usually stones are message!

Keep on Buying Danish .... cheers!


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/22/2006

LOL !! :-) :-) ;-)


fgh - 2/22/2006

This is what no education, but the brainwashing from religious "schools", does to a young brain - remember why we have our freedom!


Slater - 2/22/2006

Yeah. You go ahead and do that.

You don't seriously think that offends us, do you? What are you, 10 years old?

I find it quite interesting that all the pro-riot and pro-boycott muslims seem to have no other arguments than just "I don't like you *cry*".


FUCKERMAN! - 2/22/2006

Fuck Your Denmark!!!


Mark Linham - 2/22/2006

CORRECTION:

If you insist on identifying with those who know choose to respond to speech with violence, then you *are* a "caveman" - right along with George W. Bush.

to:


If you insist on identifying with those who choose to respond to speech with violence, then you *are* a "caveman" - right along with George W. Bush.


Mark Linham - 2/22/2006

If you're a Saudi *girl*, it's not necessary that you take offense at the usage of the term, "caveMAN", in this context.

You're not a *man*, are you?

The term, caveman, in this context, means primitive savage. A concept that has less to do with technology, than it does with general intellectual, moral and cultural development.

If you insist on identifying with those who know choose to respond to speech with violence, then you *are* a "caveman" - right along with George W. Bush.

As for Sharon, well.. I'm an American, so I do not have to deal with him, and you'll have to excuse my ignorance about him.


Slater - 2/22/2006

Nah, bare dum.


Slater - 2/22/2006

And, using your metaphor:
why would you drink at all if you didn't have to?


Slater - 2/22/2006

But you have the right to do it!

..heh.. sorry. Couldn't help it.


S Misra - 2/21/2006

Just yesterday, some Sunni or Shiite, both an ass on either side of a crack, burnt a room full of Korans during a riot. "Oh Muslims Unite?" You people kill each other everywhere without pity, without mercy, with glee. There IS NO SUCH CREATURE as Islam, only Murdering Sunni and Murdering Shiites. Kill each other's children, women, innocent men, and bomb each other's weddings and funerals, if you must, but Sunni and Shiite on either side of the crack, leave civilized people alone.


S Misra - 2/21/2006

A prophet of what, pedophilia and bloodlust, of hymen popping in heaven? Of Sunni and Shiites, joined at the hip and slashing each other's throats? Envy? Of a violent cult of once a lifetime rock visiting and backwater nations? Of a history devoid of philosophy? Of throat cutting and beheading of innocents? Why, when I have Buddha or Jesus, both of whom were nonviolent and rational? Why would I drink sewage when I have crystal clear mountain water?


S Misra - 2/21/2006

Brilliant response. I can understand why you modestly did not sign a name to it. You have much to be modest about, intellectually.


S Misra - 2/21/2006

Boycotting is not returning evil with evil but refusing to cooperate with evil. I intend not only to buy Danish products, but boycott Arab ones. They have a violent religion, they believe in an eye for an eye, and they interpret nonviolence as weakness, though in every one of their nations, the people meekly submit to dictatorships. Only when they see we refuse to cooperate with evil doers will they listen. They forbid evangelism or freedom of the press, so they cannot listen. They are much less educated, so they cannot understand. As individuals, they may be kind, but as a religion, they are barbarians.


S Misra - 2/21/2006

I wear your name calling as a badge of honor. You represent a degraded religion of violence that tells a man if he straps on bombs, kills children, women, and innocent men, he is a martyr. If a martyr murders nonbelievers, he gets to attend an orgy of hymens in heaven, promised by his pedophiliac prophet. What kind of a man kidnaps and beheads innocents? What a gutter your heaven is. Mohammed, yesterday in Afghanistan or Iraq, all these backwaters are the same, some Sunni, or was it Shiites, rioted and burnt a room full of Korans. Be a man Mohammed, avenge your prophet and kill them for this blasphemy! One of your Muslim brothers in Turkey, a member of al quaida, ogled a woman while building a bomb in his apartment, the same apartment innocent men, women and children, all Muslims, lived in. Real cowardice is not allowing evangelism in your godforsaken lands, because an intellectual coward is what every Muslim is, never discussing, only threatening. A true man is Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Buddha, and Jesus. Mohammed is a fool.


S Misra - 2/21/2006

Read the four Gospels and you will not find one word of Jesus that asks us to kill anyone, hate anyone, even one's enemies. The Koran is bizarre, with chapter or book titles like "The Goat" and "The Bees." Really bizarre. Once you get beyond that, it is violent, and it is the words of Mohammed.


S Misra - 2/21/2006

I seriously doubt the Vedas dehumanize women the way you describe it. However, ALL religions have dehumanized women. Only two have accepted women as equals, and those in the words of their founders, Jesus and Buddha. Your use of the term genocide is an example of reducto ad absurdem, which means, to reduce an argument or example to the point of absurdity. The problem with simple argumetns, is that they eliminate a lot of variables that have greater consequences when the problem scales upward. Most of humanity uses examples that are absurdly simple. The most common ones are the most familiar: the use of one's self, one's self and someone one knows, one's family, one's organization and one's village as examples of cooperation, (the reducto part) when extended into large populaces (the absudem part.)
You, little Hasan, know how to lash out, too bad you lack introspection. It prevents you from being humble, being wise, and being a whole lot less angry. By the way, little Hasan, just yesterday, Sunni or Shiite in Iraq, does it matter?, burnt a whole room of Korans in a mosque during a riot. But I am sure you Muslims, whatever that thing called a "Muslim" is, because there are two parts to Islam and both kill the other and hate the other, will never protest this desecration. Even if Hinduism denegrates women, it doesn't help make Islam more attractive, given it treats women like property, without rights. Little, little Hasan, and I mean that in every sense, if you really want to read fierce critics of Hinduism, read Siddharta Gautam, the Buddha, and read Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, for they have criticized Hinduism in ways your little rants cannot wrap their mind around. Well, I still think, Hasanette, that I can defend Islam better than you, but why throw a lifesaver to a man insistent upon drowning?


infidel - 2/21/2006

ggggggggggggggggggggggggg!!!!!?????


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/21/2006

yes great article!! I wish someone from the MSM i USA would soon stop blaming denmark and start telling the real story.


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/21/2006

hmmmm???? too many carlsberg or???? LOL


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/21/2006

UPS!!! sorry, It was not my intention to offend you...


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/21/2006

http://www.slate.com/id/2136714/

Spread the word.


Bud - 2/21/2006

LOL - whats happening dear Niels?
You are hilarious


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/21/2006

My question is very specific: Why did these countries not become "Muslim countries".

The rest of the Muslims in the world moved there by migration, but the countries they moved to remains non-Muslim.

That's like Saying Saudi Arabia is a Christian country when it only has a minority of non-Muslims who moved there to work.


Slater - 2/21/2006

Would you quit it?!


Niels sander - 2/21/2006

If I do that again, i quit, and sory for You
Canada is a STATE with rather many PARALLEL SOCIATIES within it. Its erreally kind of experience to walk in Chinatown, Toronto, and interessting to hear some canadians talking about the jjapanese, and maybee chise, takeover of Vancouver. My , very good, friends in Eskimo Point, Baker Lake and Iqaliut, together with to wonderfull friens from the Dene Nation, plus .. I am sure, haven`t asked, my french is to bad.. the good people of Quebec will admit, that Canada is a STATE of many NATIONS, not always interfering with each other without nearky beeing forced to it.
Denmark is very small. We are a rather coherent NATION on a very small place. We dont mean that we have neither space nor capacity to accept "paralel societies". We welcome people coming from the rest of the world, as long as they either wisot us, or if they wa


Niels sander - 2/21/2006

If I do that again, i quit, and sory for You
Canada is a STATE with rather many PARALLEL SOCIATIES within it. Its erreally kind of experience to walk in Chinatown, Toronto, and interessting to hear some canadians talking about the jjapanese, and maybee chise, takeover of Vancouver. My , very good, friends in Eskimo Point, Baker Lake and Iqaliut, together with to wonderfull friens from the Dene Nation, plus .. I am sure, haven`t asked, my french is to bad.. the good people of Quebec will admit, that Canada is a STATE of many NATIONS, not always interfering with each other without nearky beeing forced to it.
Denmark is very small. We are a rather coherent NATION on a very small place. We dont mean that we have neither space nor capacity to accept "paralel societies". We welcome people coming from the rest of the world, as long as they either wisot us, or if they wa


boreal - 2/21/2006

Without knowing just a little bit of each other, discussion is of no value.
So alllow me to correct some misunderstandaings abour, what Canada is, and what Denmark is.
We are getting the impression, that Canada is a multicultural, multietnical NATION


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/21/2006

I am NOT a Muslim. I used to be and then realized that I want to be able to think and decide for myself. Not let a book written by a human dictate my life.


Mustafa - 2/21/2006

Brother, did Islamic governments invade USA, UK, China, Japan, Malaysia or any of the Andean countries? How about Denmark having 200,000 Mulslims? Did Islamic govt. ever invade Denmark? Please revert to honesty and accept the fact that Islam did not and cannot spread by sword. Thank you.


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/21/2006

Well its not for me to say if some companies have signed any "dont-trade-with-israel-clause" BUT the largest danish dairy company denies the story about them is true...take a look here:

http://www.arlafoods.com/APPL/HJ/HJ202COM/HJ202D01.NSF/O/4B411989EBDDC534C125711B003F4475


Mark Linham - 2/21/2006

Postscript: ..or an orgasm!


Mark Linham - 2/21/2006

"Finally, it is not an Islamic act to counter-attack with an equally offensive response"


Faith:

I surmise from the above that you don't approve of the violent response to the Danish cartoon(s) by Muslim militants. Is this correct?
If so, bravo! You're right.

However, that isn't enough:

If humans are ever to get along with one another, they simply MUST give each other the space to be free to disagree with one another. We are not robots, or clones. And honest disagreement - much more than agreement - is crucial to honest communication, which in turn is essential to human social and moral progress.

The bomb in the turban symbolizes the violence that has been, and continues to be, inflicted upon innocents by Muslim militants (this has been a longstanding, global problem), and whether you like it or not, Muslim militants *are* associated with the prophet Muhammed.

I demand nothing of you, ever; not an apology, not a word or act of kindness.. nothing. Why? Because you have a categorical right to exist. That right is unconditional. You do not have to pay me, or anyone else for that basic, inalienable right. You do not have to make me happy, or honor me, or my values in any way. I can impose no positive obligations, or make any demands of you.
By the very same token, you are not rightly in a position to make demands of others, including the offensive Danish cartoonists. If you truly are offended by what they have, in effect, said, then, of course, say so. But you have no right to *demand* anything of them.


Mark Linham - 2/21/2006

Nahhh. A cold beer, or a glass of wine is better. ;)


Mark Linham - 2/21/2006

In that case, buy both Danish AND Israeli goods!

If some Danes have made some bad deals (and what nationality doesn't have members who've done this?), this shouldn't be allowed to cloud the issue that we should unequivocally stand up in any way we can think of - including economically - for free speech.

Free speech is so fundamental a value, that what you mention is unimportant relative to it, because the lives and freedom of all humanity depend upon its success.


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/21/2006


UPS!! last line in the comment just above this, please see it as "deleted"

(the line from TOM saying "GOD FLUSH THE TOILET OF EUROPE KNOWN AS DENMARK--CANADIANS WILL NOT HELP THE DANISH WHEN THEY COME CRYING FOR HELP")
By the way, its says a LOT more about Tom than its says about the danes....Laugh...


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/21/2006

Dear Tom,
well you are really not worth it, but anyway, you get one chance more to understand this....

You said:
"GOD BLESS CANADA, THE LAND WHERE ALL ARE WELCOME"
Not true!! Actually NOT all are welcome in Canada!! Canada only takes so few Refugees that its not worth mention, and Canada ONLY takes "1951 Convention" Refugees, they takes NO for humanitarian reasons. you probably dont know what that is, but its refugees not full-filling the conventions rules for being a refugee, so you got the right to send them back, and Canada does that, but denmark does NOT. Over 60% of the refugees getting in to denmark would NOT be allowed to come in to Canada.

And once more, you said:
"GOD BLESS CANADA,"

Well is it the christian god you are blessing or Allah?? because sooner or later you will have to face that someone will say you most not bless other gods than theirs. Believe me, if you are refuse to stand up for freedom of speech you will lose that freedom.




GOD FLUSH THE TOILET OF EUROPE KNOWN AS DENMARK--CANADIANS WILL NOT HELP THE DANISH WHEN THEY COME CRYING FOR HELP


Maltesen - 2/21/2006

Some of the danish firmes that has been boycott, are using boycott themselves against Israel. If the firms has to make trade with muslim contries, they have to promise not to use produkts made in Israel and not using harbors in Israel, when they are shipping to the contries around Israel...


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/21/2006

Thanks Ensan 7orr,
And thanks god (both yours and mine) that there are many muslims like you in the western world...


- 2/21/2006

"One should not target muslims only because they are weak "

Who says, muslims are weak??? you do...I dont se muslims as weak, how come you have this view at your self and your religion??


stepper - 2/21/2006

Tom T you are a loser and will always be- long live the danish struggle against islam!


Slater - 2/21/2006

You are still not getting the point, are you?

None of these other religions are burning down our buildings and threatening to kill us.

When Hindus or Buddhists or whatever start doing that, we'll "target" them too.


Th.mas - 2/21/2006


In an earlier post you stated:

'Walk the streets of Canada and Denmark as a minority, and tell me ....'

Just out of interest, have you walked the streets of Denmark ?

I wonder whether you got the kick by Denmark? You are spiteful!

Go on show them: Buy Danish


stepper - 2/21/2006

The koran is probably the dullest book ever wrote- perfect if you suffer from imsomnia!


Slater - 2/21/2006

Yeah, we'll miss you Tom.. *waves*

..eh.

Bwahahah!

As if we'll ever need your help. What have you got to offer anyway? Electricity? We already export that. Or how about some of your red-clothed mounted weirdos? Yeah sure. They'll scare those damned terrorist away. Yup.


hasan - 2/21/2006

The topic may be a bit offline but its necessary to look at how all religions have extremist followers. One should not target muslims only because they are weak ; look at yourself before pointing others.

The researched document is based on Vedas which are part of Hindu Religious scriptures.

According to a report by the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF), During the first 50 years of Independance, more than 50 million girls have been killed in India.



1.1 VEDIC FEMALE INFANTICIDE
The horrible custom of female infanticide was widely practiced by the barbaric Vedic Aryan tribes who invaded India. It is these Vedic nomads who introduced this depravity into India. The Vedas prescribe an intense hatred for women, and female children were considered highly undesirable in the nomadic Aryan patriarchal view. Indeed, so deep-rooted was the desire for male children that the Vedas prescribe numerous prayers for male offspring :

Atharva Veda.6.2.3 : " Let a female child be born somewhere else; here, let a male child be born."
-- [ Ath.Ved.VI.2.3 ] [ cf. Peri ]

These verses were recited whenever an Aryan couple wished to have a child, and display considerable discrimination against women even in the Vedic age. Nor does the `wonderful' treatment of women in Vedic religion end here. The `holy' and `great' Vedas explicitly sanction the practice of female infanticide. Indeed, the real reason for this truly animal practice lies deep in the blood-stained verses of the Vedas. The following verse, from the `sacred' Vedas of the `noble' faith of Hinduism, allows the practice, and takes it for granted as a normal practice in Vedic religion :

Taittirya Samhita VI.5.10.3 : " Hence they [ Aryans ] reject a female child when born, and take up a male."

[ Taitt.Samh.VI.5.10.3 ] [ Muir I 26 ]


What `sweet' verses from the Vedas, the holy guide-book for all Hindus ! No wonder women were not allowed to read these heaps of male chauvinist filth ! Indeed, there are several reasons for the practice of female infanticide during the Vedic Dark Age (1500 BC - 500 BC) of the Brahmanic Dark Ages (1500 BC - 1000 AD), all of which can be traced back to Vedic barbarism :
The large dowries prescribed by the Vedas (see later chapters) implied that female children were solely seen as an economic burden. Such was the state of madness inflicted by the Brahmins that a single female marriage, even today, can ruin an ordinary middle-class family. Obliterating female children was thus a convenient way of alleviating financial ruin in the Vedic period.

Women were of little use to the Aryan war-tribes. Hence, their numbers were reduced in order to maintain the high effectiveness of the Aryan war-machine.
These are the `wonderful' truths about the `most spiritual' religion of Hinduism. The inhuman Hindu female infanticide is not due to any `corruption', but is fully sanctioned by the core of Hindu religious scriptures - the Vedas. This is the truth about the `wonderful' religion of Hinduism.


1.2 LATER BRAHMANIC FEMALE INFANTICIDE
The custom of Vedic female infanticide continued during the Sutric (500 BC - 200 AD) and Puranic Dark Ages (200 AD - 1000 AD) of the Brahmanic Dark Ages (1500 BC - 1000 AD). During this era, the Brahmins consolidated the power they had obtained during the Vedic Dark Age to the height of Absolutism. Any custom which could eat away at the foundations of non-Brahmin peoples was utilised by the Brahmins in order to consolidate their tyranny over the subject populations. Infanticide was one such method which helped preserve Brahminist power, and the population was hence brainwashed with the `holy' Vedas, which prescribe this beastly practice. There were several other reasons why the Brahmins cruelly enforced Vedic female infanticide :

The Brahmin race has always feared being overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of non-Brahmins. Hence they resorted to the harshest means imaginable to curtail non-Brahmin reproduction. To this extent, the Brahmins divided Indian nations into mutually warring factions by means of casteism, enforced the vile customs of sati, hijrahism, devadasism and above all, spread the poison of female infanticide into the veins of the populace. Female infanticide rotted away at the very roots of the non-Brahmin races, many of which disappeared from the face of the Earth. The Indo-Greeks, Bactrians, Panchalas, Koshalas and Saurasenas are only some of the non-Brahmins races exterminated by the Brahmins using various forms of social degenration which included female infanticide.


The shortage of women led to unending wars amongst non-Brahmins for the remaining women. This is amply demonstrated in Rajasthan, where the Brahmin-enforced female infanticide led to male-female ratios of 10:1. As a result, a never-ending series of wars over women devastated the Scythic Rajputs for several centuries. Sessodia fought Chauhan, Kacchwaha fought Bundela and father fought son in fratricidal warfare which reduced Rajasthan to the desert it now is. Had the Rajputs instead tackled the real cause for all their wars and suffering, namely the Brahmins and the Brahmin-inflicted customs of female infanticde and sati, this suffering would not have occurred.


Thus, the `holy' texts of the Vedas sanction apartheid and mass murder of baby girls. The magnitude of this circumstance is staggering: as long as the Vedas are followed, there shall exist immense hardships for women, and the mass murder of children shall continue since these are all prescribed in these `sacred' texts. Since such passages cannot be deleted in modern times, nor can the Vedas be modified, it hence follows that that all Indian feminists must fight against any and all forms of Vedic religion. Unless they do so, Indian women shall forever remain enslaved to Vedic tyranny.


1.3 POISONING, BURIAL AND SUFFOCATION OF INFANT GIRLS
The manner in which the bigoted Brahmins prescribed death for female infants is especially heart-rending. Often, the parents would be forced to cut up the child and then feed the flesh to animals. Othertimes, the child would be smothered by the midwife. Vivekananda himself refers to a painting showing a Hindu woman throwing her children into the Ganges crocodiles which was widely distributed in the West. The `brave' Rajputs would often have to throw up the baby girl, and chop her up with unsheathed swords as she fell. As a result of Brahmin brain-washing, the Rajputs considered it brave to kill their own female children ! No wonder Sanskrit, the language of the `learned' Brahmanas, has not even a single word for chivalry or virtue !
Nor has it stopped here. The Brahmins have perverted modern technology to develop a new variety of female infanticide, namely female foeticide, which is now spreading rapidly in Brahmin-Occupied India. In Tamil Nadu it is now resorted to, in addition to the time-tested methods of starvation, burial of live children and suffocation [ Tam ]. The latter methods appear natural and thus allow the mother to circumvent the law, whilst the more new-fangled hi-tech methods are technically illegal. These laws on paper are the result of Ambedkar's law-making : the Brahmins opposed any legislation against female infanticide. However, the Brahmins have made sure that these laws are not enforced. This was the experience of Malli, a Tamil woman, describing how her child had been murdered :

" She knew someone may have already inserted a grain into her daughter's mouth, or fed her yerakkam pal [ poison ], or may have drowned her in a bucket of water."
[ Shobha ]

This story clearly shows how the poison of Brahmanism has been at work in Tamil Nadu, spreading the vice of female infanticide which involves the cruellest methods of putting the child to death. Smothering, poisoning and violent means are not eshewed in this quest for Kautilyan dominance over an alien people.


1.4 ANGLO-BRAHMIN ERA & FEMALE INFANTICIDE
The Brahmins have always betrayed India to the foreign inveders, whom they helped in order to maintain their vicious grip on the native populations. One need only remember the Brahmin Kautilya who engineered the Greek invasions of India through his protege Candragupta and the resulting conspiracy with Alexander the Great. The devastating Hun, Parthian, Islamic and Scythic invasions were all engineered by the Brahmins. True to their tradition, these traitors also collaborated with the English to enslave the Indians. The English legalised the fierce persecution of Malayali Moplahs by their Brahmin overlords, which led to the Moplah Rebellion. Similarly , the English Aryans connived with the Brahmin Aryans in the mass murder of millions of female children. Thus, as expected, female infanticide actually spread during British rule, and is still on the increase. This is evident from the following figures, which show a drastic decrease in the number of children during the Anglo-Brahmin colonial era :

Number of females per 1000 males
1901 972
1931 950
1981 934

[ Ox.64 ]


In the neo-Brahminist Government of India, the genocide of women continues at full pace. Fully one-tenth of each generation of females is exterminated due to Hindu laws. Indeed, during the first 50 years of Independance, more than 50 million girls have been killed in India [ Verma ].


1.5 NEO-BRAHMANIST FEMALE INFANTICIDE
Following the bloody Aryan conquest of the Sudric nations of South India, the Aryan Brahmins utilised every conceivable means in order to eat away at the very backbone of the Dravidian race. Horrible practices like hijrahism, sati, enforcement of Vedic apartheid, Vedic human sacrifice (purushamedha) and female infanticide were used to oppress the native Dravidoids. The instilling of hatred against women in the masses was the direct result of the enforcement of the Aryan Vaishnava religion upon the Shaiva masses. The genocide of girls was institutionalised by the cunning Brahmins among certain sections of the Tamil population, whence this cancer spread throughout the veins of the Dravidian race. The following quotation refers to the survival of Brahmin-inflicted female infantcide amongst the Kallar clan of Dravidians :

" For a long time in a small hamlet, "Usilampatti", of the Madurai District of Tamil Nadu, India, a tribe called "Kallar" has dominated. "Kallar" means robbers, pirates, marauders, as they were in the past. There was even a Dept. in the local government called The Kallar Reclamation Dept., which was designed to reeducate them, as a backward "class". But their numbers spread in Southern District's of Tamil Nadu. A common feature is the practice of female infanticide. They tolerate a first born female baby, but not a second, because they cannot afford it. Both men and women agree that due to economic deprivation and social conditions, and having to marry girls means giving a dowry and jewels plus incurring the expenses of the marriage feasts, it is impossible to bring up a girl baby. Until girls mature they can be of some help at home or help producing food. However, leaving an unmarried adult woman at home is dangerous, and the work place is also considered unsafe. Therefore they poison the female babies soon after birth with a poison mixed with milk, or a milk-like juice from a shrub - madder juice, and the babies die due to nausea and diarrhoea. If they do not kill them, they may simply abandon the baby at a government hospital after giving a fictional address. "
[ Kurian ]

The origin of these practices can be clearly attributed to Brahminist brain-washing :


" The Kallar were once a proud warrior tribe, but under British rule were relegated to the status of mere thieves and forced to report daily to British officials... There is widespread belief that if a girl is killed then the next baby will be a boy and if two girls are killed consecutively then the next baby will definitely be a boy. Some people name their girls Vendam which means 'unwanted' or Podum meaning enough."
-- [ Kidd ]


These Brahminist practices continue to gnaw at the backbone of the Dravidian people, keeping them weak and internally divided. As per the Modern Rationalist, the practice of infanticide is rapidly spreading in Brahmin-Occupied Tamil Nadu:

" NNMR (deaths occurring within 7 days of a child's birth) have risen from 33.8 % in 1971 to over 39% for the current year. According to Alternate India Development (AID), an NGO, there is strong evidence that female infanticide is one of the reasons for the increasing trend in neonatal deaths. However, instances of infanticide even after six months to one year have been recorded. Indeed, the decreasing IMR does not tell the whole story! "
[ Van ]


The Dravidian movement has thus failed in its objective of liberating the Dravidians from the clutches of Brahmanism. The main reason is that Brahmins survived in other parts of south Asia, allowing them to restore their tyrannic hold over Tamil Nadu once the initial wave of localised anti-Brahmanism had past. This has been the time-tested strategy of the Brahmins, and draws strength from the main advantage the Brahmins possess over the other races of India; namely their thin dispersal over vast regions. The only method of solving the eternal Brahmin problem of South Asia is the simultaneous destruction of Brahmanism all across the region. If the Brahmin curse is not completely extinguished, it shall quietly survive until the danger is past, and then suddenly revive like the plague to re-infest the veins of the peoples of Asia with even deadlier forms of venom.

1.6 PERVERSION OF SCIENCE FOR NEO-BRAHMANIC FEMALE INFANTICIDE
In the modern age, the Brahmins have perverted modern science, and transformed it into another method for the mass murder of non-Brahmin races. This innovation involves the scanning of non-Brahmin foetuses for females, followed by the utlisation of medicine to destroy these female babies. This evil, put to such deadly effect in Tamil Nadu, has been spread by the Brahmins into the lungs of the Sikh people. Thus, Sikhs have started to condemn the spread of this ugly Brahminist practice :

" Most Respected Sri Singh Sahib Jee,
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh!
The medical tool of "Ultra Sound," commonly used to determine the gender of the fetus, has brought in a very cruel social evil of Female Infanticide into our culture. The female fetuses are being aborted right after their Ultra Sound detection. Unfortunately this social evil is viewed by those who undergo this procedure as well as by those who perform it, as "Just another medical procedure." [ Takht ]

Needless to say, the doctors performing this operation are mostly Brahmins, while the murdered girls are mostly non-Brahmin Sikhs. This system is merely part of the overall Brahmin strategy of exterminating Sikhs. Similar situations exist all over India where Brahmins destroy non-Brahmin foetuses.

1.7 BRAHMINS KILL 1 MILLION GIRLS ANNUALLY
The true extent of the Brahminist destruction of non-Brahmin races must be objectively quantified in order to be comprehended completely. In 1921 there were more than 97 women for every 100 men in India. Seventy years later, the number had dropped to 92.7 [ Verma ]. These figures, benign at first sight, conceal an ugly truth.
Given that the birth rate of India is 32.0 per 1000 and the total population of India is 835.8 milion [ EB-90.635 ], this implies an annual total of 26.7 million births, out of which 13.4 million would be girls. Given that the present sex ratio is 92/100, which implies that 8/100 girls are killed, this leads to 0.008 x 13.4 million = 1.072 million deaths. That means that 1.1 million girls are killed each year due to the Brahmin-enforced customs of Vedic female infanticide . This is the ugly truth behind the figure of 92 girls for every hundred boys.

Sonali Verma writes about the true extent of damage inflicted by Brahmins on women:

" A recent United Nations report said up to 50 million girls and women were missing from India's population , the result of systematic sex discrimination extending to the abortion of female foetuses."
[ Verma ]


This annihilation of 50 million children, mostly by violent means after childbirth, has occurred during the last 50 years of India's Independance, and confirms the estimate of 1 million girls murdered by Brahmins each year for the last 50 years. It is to be noted that Hitler, one of the greatest mass murderers of all times, exterminated only 5 million Jews. The Brahmin mass murder of 50 million female children in the 20th century has thus been TEN TIMES more severe than the Jewish Holocaust . And the killing continues.


1.8 200 MILLION GIRLS MURDERED BY BRAHMINS
The cumulative number of deaths due to centuries of Hindu female infanticide is truly staggering. Consider the Brahmanic Dark Ages of 1000 years(1500 BC - 500 BC), and let us adopt the standard population estimate of ancient India, namely 50 million and assume that the same birth rate and same sex ratio existed as today. These are not unreasonable assumptions, given the statements of various travellers that several entire towns in Brahmanic India were destitute of girls. These figures lead to 1.6 million births, or 0.8 million girls born per year of which at least 0.08 million are killed. For 2500 years that yields 2500 years x 0.08 million deaths per year = more than 200 million deaths for the Brahmanic Dark Ages. This means that the Brahmins have murdered 200 million girls during their tyranny over India. By comparison, all other genocides in world history pale into insignificance. The Nazi genocide of Jews was only 5 million, whilst the largest Holocaust ever, that of the Native Americans by Latin and Anglo-Saxons, was only 100 million. This genocide of female infants alone is sufficient to make the Brahmins the greatest mass murderers in human history . It does not include the countless other genocides inflicted by the Brahmins on other peoples, an estimate of which is beyond the scope of this book.

1.9 CHILD-MARRIAGE
Enforced by the Brahmins, this custom destroyed the very life-soul of the non-Brahmins. Child marriage of daughters as young 5-6 y old was common during the Brahmanic Dark Ages due to the custom of dowry [ Nand 17 ] [ Bash.167-8 ] [ Yad 70 ] [ Alt.16 ] [ Ban.70 ]. Lawbooks prescribe that the best partner for a man in one-third his age. Thus a man 18 year old should marry a girl 6 years old! This is the wonderful wisdom of the most authoritative Hindu law-book
Manu.IX.94 :
" A man, aged thirty years, shall marry a maiden of twelve who pleases him, or a man of twenty-four a girl of eight years of age; if (the performance of) his duties would otherwise be impeded, he must marry sooner."

One of the reasons for such early marriage of girls was to prevent any scandals. Narada states that some of the defects to be avoided in brides are if they already had a relationship with another man or have their minds set on another, they should not be selected [Sheth 67]. This shows that non-virgin girls could not be married, a custom similar to Church-ruled medieval Europe.

The custom of child-marriage and child-molesting has divine sanction in Hinduism. The `great god' Rama was 16 years old when he married Sita, and Sita was only 14 years old [ Ram.wh 69 ]. However, the age of Sita is now known to be a forgery; it is almost certain that she was, as per the Manuid laws, one-third of his age, namely 5 years old. It is inconceivable to imagine that `great' Rama could have dated to violate the Vedic laws of Manu. Besides being a child-molester, `holy' Rama was also guilty of incest, for Sita is referred to in the oldest surviving Ramayanas as his own sister :

" In the Dasarathajataka Sita is represented as the sister as well as the wife of Rama , son of Dasaratha of the Ikshvaku line."
[ Chandra, p.156 ]

Mr. Chandra, who has given the passage cited above, then claims that this incriminating passage was `infiltrated' by the Buddhist nastikas. This objection, however, can be discounted immediately. Firstly, it would not be possible for Buddhists to `distort' a Hindu scripture. Secondly, Chandra himself is a Brahminist, so his statements in defence of Brahmanism can be discounted as being the result of religious fanaticism. The fact is, that the extant Buddhist tales are much older than the Hindu versions, and this episode was deleted from the later falsified Ramayanas. This is confirmed by anthropological research showing that incest was institutionalised in Rama's race, the Ikshvaku dynasty of Aryan Kshatriyas :

" In the Anabattha Sutta and the Mahavastu Avadana we are told that the Ikshvaku princes, who were banished by their father and took shelter on the slopes of the Himalayas, and from whom the Sakyas traced their descent, married their own sisters in order to maintain the purity of their line."
[ Chandra, p.155 ]

Hence, it is virtually certain that Sita was Rama's sister, and that it is certain that such an `upright astik Hindu' as he would not have let his sister grow beyond the age limit of 8 years prescribed by Aryan law.

Now, what was the main reason for the Brahmins enforcing child marriage and incest upon the subject populations ? The answer is that these activities led to the permanent genetic degradation of the non-Brahmin races. It is well known that consanginuous marriage leads to genetic mutations in the offspring and eventually ends in the extermination of the blood lineage concerned. Incest and child marriage has a high risk of leading to irreversible hereditary defects in the second generation which are then passed on to succeeding generataions. These were hence convenient methods for the Brahmins to annihilate the non-Brahmins and establish a pure Brahmavarta ! Even to this day one finds the process of genetic deterioration occurring in non-Brahmin children inhabiting Brahmin-ruled regions. These are entirely the result of Brahmin-enforced child-marriage and Brahmin-inflicted incest.

1.10 ENFORCEMENT OF VIRGINITY
As a further instance of the oppressive rules of Hinduism imposed upon women, young girls were required to remain virgin till marriage. Failing this requirement, they would be discarded by the husbands at will :

Manu.IX.72 : " Though (a man) may have accepted a damsel in due form, he may abandon (her if she be) blemished, diseased, or deflowered, and (if she have been) given with fraud."

Such girls were reduced to a pitiable state and were unable to find husbands thereafter. They were mostly forced to live the life of early wretched widowhood. This shows that the systematic discrimination meted out by Hinduism to women extends down to early childhood. Whilst Brahmin men were free to indulge in debauchery with aboriginal Devadasis at an early age, girls had to remain chaste virgins. This is the truth about `wonderful' Hinduism.

These are merely a handful of facts showing that Hinduism is the single most anti-woman civilization in the history of the world. The followers of Hinduism are mindless male supremacist pigs who know nothing better than to burn their own women and rape their own daughters. This they do in the name of the `Holy Vedas', the invention of perverted Brahmin bigots. No other religion imposes such an inhuman genocide of women as does the truly beastly Hinduism.



Bud - 2/21/2006

Well goodbye Tom - you are a real mess!


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/21/2006

Because of Muslim extremists I tried Havarti Cheese today, and it is very delicious!

Actually bought 4 different brands of Danish cheese, and tried 3. All were very good!

BUY DANISH! :-)


Mark Linham - 2/21/2006

Postscript: I'm sorry.


Mark Linham - 2/21/2006

Peace.


peaceful pete - 2/21/2006

Easy... Easy there friend... :-)

I was just being sarcastic - mocking the Canadians for their holier-than-thou attitude towards brave little Denmark and, yes, America. Harper hasn't called Rasmussen yet to express his support for Denmark's valiant stand against the nutters, and we have canucks here pretending to be angels.

And being an "infidel", I was also making fun of the muslims for their abuse of the word "peace". They are ever ready to kill in the name of their "peaceful" prophet.

Clear as mud? :-)

peace ;)


Mark Linham - 2/20/2006

Whether anyone "respects" or disrespects "holy" prophets is not the essential matter that is the main subject of this message page.

The main subject of this page is 1) two diametrically opposing world views that have each in their turn outraged the opposing ideas' adherents, and 2) the failure - or actually, the refusal - of one side to avoid and/or morally condemn the resort to force as an answer to argument.
The rejection of the initiation of force in human affairs, and especially, the minimum restraint required to refuse to substitute a gun or a fist for free, uninhibited discussion, is crucial to achieving "peace on earth", as you say. You are not furthering the cause of peace by being neutral about, or by rejecting, this principle.

The *honest* recognition, here, is that words - such as "peace", in this case - do have clear and exact meanings, whether you choose, or "the prophet" chose, to recognize that or not.


peaceful pete - 2/20/2006

Thank you for those peaceful, seemingly cogent words.

"Might does NOT make right"? - Naturally, Denmark being a "mighty" nation, no doubt?

Your desire for grandstanding seems to have distracted the aim, and the cliched, jingoistic outburst is dismissible as futile raillery against imagined thrusts of the alleged "bait". Poor comprehension, but great punctuation nevertheless.

Dismissed. ;)

And my respects to the holy prophet (pbuh)


Mark Linham - 2/20/2006

You speak for your government, or other Canadians? I doubt it.

Goodbye.


Mark Linham - 2/20/2006

Hello Mr "Peaceful",

Well, I'm taking the bait, troll:

I'm a U.S. citizen. And I, unlike you, am able to think, and therefore make fine, abstract distinctions - and it matters to me that I do this honestly.

If you had/have the good fortune to live in the United States of America - the greatest nation on earth (no disrespect intended to other wonderful western countries!) - you would have the direct experience of a immensely higher quality of life here, than in even the richest of the Muslim-dominated countries, and this despite even our country's current wave of fascism (which I also oppose wholeheartedly, and hope to help defeat, someday), with the resulting lousy domestic policy, and our dubious foreign policy.

You can be against the things that are wrong with America, without rejecting all of its political institutions, many of which are very good and highly moral - especially our Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights.

For my part, I offer no apologies at all for any free, honest expression. And I endorse that free expression, in films, music, cartoons, photographs, painting, sculpture, poetry, literature, etc, no matter how defaming of "prophets", or obscene it is. Freedom is an unequivocal good. Our individual rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are absolute. Moreover, damn it, these same rights are possessed by human beings everywhere, and must ultimately be universally recognized by all governments at all levels, and religions. To this sacred principle ALL cultures - including my own, including *your* own - MUST be subordinated. Might does NOT make right. Might merely makes action possible. But the question of that action's rightness can only be decided by reference to an abstract principle that is congruent with the good life on earth, not in some unearthly "paradise".

No, you are completely and utterly wrong. And I do not apologize, or compromise, with you or your kind.


Tom Tolbene - 2/20/2006

The reaction of you Danish posters has shown your true side: anger and hatred directed towards anyone who doesn't agree with your degrading policies.

Well, I'm done posting on this board, but before I go,

GOD BLESS CANADA, THE LAND WHERE ALL ARE WELCOME

GOD FLUSH THE TOILET OF EUROPE KNOWN AS DENMARK--CANADIANS WILL NOT HELP THE DANISH WHEN THEY COME CRYING FOR HELP


peaceful pete - 2/20/2006

Please look at what CANADA does to people who say "mohammad is the prophet"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Shidane_Arone.jpg

All that innocent young muslim boy did, was praise the prophet and Canada does this to him. Please register your protests in a peaceful fashion until Canada recognizes the value of civilized dialog, and apologizes to the OIC and every single Islamic government.

Also, please "urge" Canada to apologize on behalf of the 60% of the Canadian population that thinks America is NOT evil. This evil 60% has been seduced by the fact that there is not a single american soldier, gun, tank, missile pointed in Canada's direction to threaten, intimidate or subdue canada. ( 16 of their border guards RAN AWAY from their posts last week, because they were UNARMED and a couple of murderers were fleeing the u.s side into canada.) They think they're enjoying a free-ride living right next door to the mightiest nation in human annals, spending nothing for either its own defense OR to assist america when there is a need. AND there are no consequences for this effrontery either.

There are also rumors that 3 of the cartoonists are actually CANADIANS LIVING IN DENMARK!? One can not confirm or deny such rumors of course, but most canadians form their opinions of world affairs from rumors and heresay anyway. So, this may not matter in the grand multicultural scheme of things.

A mere 40%(!) of canadians think that America is to blame for world's problems. Thus, on the whole etc, these people - Canada - are sworn enemies of islam and peace, eh?

Peace on earth please. Its aboot time.




Gary - 2/20/2006

Quote: "Mohammed, Allah's alledged "prophet" is a dog, but the truth is, any dog is a much higher being than..."

I wouldn't insult my Beagle with such a name. And what really scares me, is that this "religion" is apparently the fastest growing one on earth.


Gary - 2/20/2006

Quote: "Jews history, you'll find that they are the most Coward people on earth.
review and read more in histroy"

A coward that believes and follows the True God is better than the barbarian fool that follows the maniac prophet of Islam!

And, as far as history goes, what fiction books do you get your history lessons from?


- 2/20/2006

yes what a way to support free speech:

"Disclaimer: Greetings that do not meet the purpose of this site's aim to create more tolerance and respect will not be published.
/ anotherdenmark.org 2006 /"

wow! who said east-europe 20 years ago???


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/20/2006

Dear Ensan 7orr,
I respect you and your opinion and allway will because you are a true democrate, thanks for showing us all how it can be done.


Bug - 2/20/2006

Please dont respond to any idiot picking a fight!


Mark Linham - 2/20/2006

Mosa:

You're engaging in a psychological vice known as projecting:

The jealousy, or more precisely, the *envy* is yours.. of others for what you have failed at: moral pride, including such things as earthly success, freedom, and even the minimal self-respect required to refuse abject surrender to abysmal stupidity.




Slater - 2/20/2006

You're missing the obvious here.

We don't believe in your invisible friend, that you call Allah.

Why would we be jealous?


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/20/2006

Listen Mr. "Canada is the land of freedom". I am an immigrant in the west, and let me say it to you straight. I have been to Canada twice before, and to several countries in Europe.

Immigration is not a right, it's a privilege. Most of those who move to the west after waiting for months and years should be very appreciative to the countries that they kissed "####" to get into.

Once there, if you don't like the country, you either try to make a peaceful and lawful change, adjust to your new country, or simply LEAVE.

To go on a tour of the middle east enticing revenge and spreading lies that resulted in this mess is a crime, and I truly believe that anyone involved in that tour should be jailed then deported to their "dreamland".

After September 11th, I was asked along with all other immigrants in the U.S. to register with the INS. I was so proud to be in America that day when the immigration officer addressed me as "sir" and was using the word "please" more than you used "immigrants" in your posts. I am a middle eastern with an obvious middle eastern name.

Why am I so happy to be respected as a human? You would think that should be expected… It's very simple... if this was a government office in a middle eastern country, insults and humiliation are a way of business there UNLESS you have some $$$ which then solves all your problems.

Of course, that is unless someone with connections is mad at you... at that point, unless you have similar or stronger connections, you might never get anything done.

Does this example give you an idea why so many immigrants want to move to "horrible" Denmark and the west?

I really did not want to honor your ignorance with a response but since you obviously have no clue what you are talking about, I thought this might help set the record straight.


cvbn - 2/20/2006

!


Moderate muslim - 2/20/2006

Western world is the completion of the ideas of islam and the idea brought forth by Muhammad: the arab world is misusing his life and words, burning and killing - you got it all wrong Mosa, you're not a true muslim... The idea og Ummah already exist in western societies, and Muhammad would rather walk the streets of New York, than being brainwashed in religious schools in Pakistan!


Muhammad Mosa - 2/20/2006

Muhammad is Messenger of Allah, even you like it or not. Even you like Islam or not. and I can see you all are Jealous of Islam.
God help you to get out of your blindness


Mark Linham - 2/20/2006

"I WILL NOT GO TO SUCH LOW LEVELS TO FIND FAULT IN JESUS OR MOSES. BOTH ARE VERY DEAR TO ME AND AS SUCH TO EVERY MUSLIM."

My red scepticism alarm bells are ringing loudly. I just don't believe you, here, Mr Hasan. Jesus is "very dear" to *all* Muslims?

Jesus said, "love your enemies", and, I paraphrase here: do good to them who ['spitefully] use you, or something like that.. ALL Muslims "love" (their) "enemies", right? I don't think so, mister.

As for good ole Moses.. well, I'll bet you like his little tablet throwing fit.



Slater - 2/20/2006

Tom you stupid fucking retard.

You can't compare flag-burnings, since you didn't make those drawings. As far as I know, the number for Danish flags var zero as well, before this thing.

And like the others said - get your damn facts straight before you go around playing saint.

You must be the dumbest fuck alive.


Peter P - 2/20/2006

Now i know why you have so few immigrants in Cananda !

You deport then !

http://auto_sol.tao.ca/node/view/1095

Strenghtened immigration rules:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/press/01/0119-pre.html

And it looks to me like you have A LOT more extremists than we do in Denmark:

http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20050824160442965

...

Tom your head is still.. Empty !

Get the facts str8:

Canada IS A HORRIBLE place to live in if you are not a caucasian !.

Peter P


Th.mas - 2/20/2006


Oh, there you are again Tom.

Quote:
Walk the streets of Canada and Denmark as a minority, and tell me ....
Unquote.

Just out of interest, have you walked the streets of Denmark ?

The number of flags burned, are a sure sign of who has the guts to stand up .... for the basics!

Only chance for the Islamists is when the west shows division, and there are always someone ready to assist them!


Tom Tolbene - 2/20/2006

0!!!!! How many Danish flags have been burned? Maybe a thousand, probably more.

Some of you have tried posting some figures, but you miss my point. Walk the streets of Canada and Denmark as a minority, and tell me which one would feel safer. Ask a Canadian immigrant how he feels about Canada, he'll answer with praise; ask a Danish immigrant about Denmark, he'll tell you how it may not be bad, but it certainly isn't good.

This "outsider" feeling of immigrants is why many around the world, and the immigrants within Denmark have shown such hostility towards your country. This doesn't occur with Canada, and never will. Hence, we are not running short on our flags!!


ZouthPaw - 2/20/2006


Interesting stuff (comments)!!

By the way, since the crisis (Moh'd Cartoons) the support to DPP in Denmark have rocketed. Some poles suggest as high as 18%, almost enough to hold majority with the Liberal party (Venstre).

In Norway it looks even better, the Progress Party stand at plus 30%.

Only Sweden, the stronghold of socialists, does not record any voter movement!
But then again the Cartoons were not allowed, due to the special version of swedish freedom of speech.

Congratulations to all true democrats...


Mikkel Pind - 2/20/2006

I'm torn by agreeing and disagreeing with you Tom. To simplify things I will write what I agree on.

-Yes! Danes do not yet see immigration as a positive thing here in Denmark. After having lived in the states I can easily see the difference in attitude. I think the main difference here is that Denmark has had a very naive immigration policy during the last 30-40 years. That effect of a failed policy is clearly present today - unfortunately.

-This brings me to another point. The Danish government is currently looking into the Canadian immigration model, so we might actually have a much better system over all in the near future ;)

In term of your suggested approach to solve the problem I can see that you are the naive one and not in the same situation as Europe. It is like you do not see what is at stake (granted that it can be as a result of your quiet effective immigration policy). Read the new article in the Washington Post. It is good to get a feel for if this was all a "irrational inflammatory" behaviour towards a particular people. Happy reading ;)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/17/AR2006021702499.html




B.Zz - 2/20/2006


Read this article by Flemming Rose, JP

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/17/AR2006021702499.html

That's why the Islamists got so upset!


Missing Tom - 2/20/2006

Hello Tom, are you lost in cyber-space now ?.

Where is your reply to these posts ?.

Your name means empty in danish.
It goes well with your arguments: Empty = Tom !




Slater - 2/20/2006

Heh ;) Takes a little more to upset me. Maybe if I believed in the old geezer...


Slater - 2/20/2006

I guess our friend Tom Tolbene doesn't know a thing about his own country, eh?

That's cute.


Slater - 2/20/2006

>> "Danes get more from muslim countries than what they pay to muslims working in denmark or to poor countries around the world"

Yes, I think that's right. But the figure is so low (around 1% of GNP), it doesn't matter. Only a few Danish companies are actually feeling this at all.


>> "USA will never consume danish brands as they are not attune to such products"

You haven't really studied up, have you? This campaign is actually working, and soon we will have gained more than we have lost from this thing.


>> "Countires like france, germany, U.K and USA are cunning enough to safeguard their interests and dont follow denmark blindly"

But afaik all these countries HAVE republished the cartoons, so the hipocrates are YOU for not boycotting them.


Once again. Not a single viable argument.
You really are not very intelligent, are you?


BB - 2/20/2006

This is just to say, that without the west, the arab world would have nothing at all - why don't you get some reality into your hipocrasy?
With the course you are setting, you'll be all alone in no time - try curing your sick with that oil of yours!


hasan - 2/20/2006

Danes get more from muslim countries than what they pay to muslims working in denmark or to poor countries around the world. So if a Danish extremist think he can produce ethnic cleansing and danes would be better of he's mistaken.

Denmark exports dairy and poultry products to the Middle East plus toy products like LEGO. In others denmark exports medicine worth billions.

USA will never consume danish brands as they are not attune to such products. Its like changing habits of US citizens which is not possible. All claims of "BUY DANISH" is just giving flase hopes to Danish people. They should understand the ground realities.

One man's loss is another man's gain. Rule is simple! Why did countries like France, USA and U.K adopted a cautious approach in dealing with this matter? Its a fact that most western nations dump their products, consumer goods or weapons, in muslim countries.

Countires like france, germany, U.K and USA are cunning enough to safeguard their interests and dont follow denmark blindly. That is why you may witness double standards or hypocritical policies emanating from these quarters. Some members on this board may object but that is just turning a deaf ear to the truth.

Denmarks LOSS is the gain of U.K, Holland and France. All competing countries doing business would obviously capitalize such gaps whether the danes like it or not.

Danes must adopt a strategy to take care of their problems, by themselves, and stop relying on countries like USA to boost their exports.


Gary - 2/19/2006

Quote: "God save us from their good intentions."

Careful or you might get Slater upset. Remember, God doesn't believe in Democracy either.


Jon - 2/19/2006

I am an American liberal and I cannot believe the uproar this has caused. I am totally convinced it is just a precursor of the future.
The next thing will will be saying "Heil Allah." I will buy Danish and tell others to buy Danish. I will encourage travel to Denmark as well. Free speech (hatred of Jews) is great in the Arab and Muslim world, yet we are not allowed the same respect in the West.


Thomas DK - 2/19/2006

And before we all get too selfrightius (?) GO DONATE


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/19/2006

Hahahaha, you are hilarious, Mo! I love you because you prove my point.

I doubt you understand what I mean, though!


peace - 2/19/2006

Come on I have lived in Canada and I love Canadians some of my family lives there. Don´t take it out on Canda that there has been some few selfrightius Canadians, in this forum, who are pointing their fingers at something they do not know anything about...


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/19/2006

It's so interesting that you brought this up M.T. because a couple of years ago, I found a long article in an Arabic newspaper where the chief editor talks about what Arabs claim to be, and what the west is all about. His conclusion was that Muslims are dreaming it, while the west is actually living it. I wish I could find the article.


Mark Linham - 2/19/2006

All that is true, M.T., if you take the claim, at face value, that Islam is about "peace" and higher values.

Though I don't personally know it, it may well be that there are many decent, civil and sensible people who consider themselves Muslims (I somehow have gone through life not getting to know any of them that well). There certainly are some wonderful people who are Christians, and of other cultural/religious origins.

This being said, it is simply not possible - if words have precise meanings, and language has any functionality - to take the Koran's tenets literally as proscriptive, and still stand for what would sensibly be identified as civilized values. The Koran unequivocally demands the opposite.

With this in mind, it is possible without contradiction, - and indeed necessary - to to at once praise the good works and character of some Muslims, while wholeheartedly rejecting and condemning Islam, itself..

..again, unless you somehow *don't* take the Koran as literal and proscriptive, and interpret it in some other fashion, instead.



Henrik Hornstrup - 2/19/2006

Dear Tom,

I dont know if you have heart but there's a big landslide in Philipine, a lot of people dead and hurt out there...

Danish Red Cross have just sent 1,1 mio US dollar...
Canadian Red Cross sent 43,000 US dollar...

You still think we are the bad guys???

while we are sending them over 1 mio dollar they was burning our flags in there streets!!!!


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/19/2006

Dear Tom,

I dont know if you have heart but there's a big landslide in Philipine, a lot of people dead and hurt out there...

Danish Red Cross have just sent 1,1 mio US dollar...
Canadian Red Cross sent 43,000 US dollar...

You still think we are the bad guys???

while we are sending them over 1 mio dollar they was burning our flags in there streets!!!!


M.T. - 2/19/2006

I had a weird thought - and excuse me for not knowing islam to its roots, but - isn't the west, with its help and compassion (and I'm not blind to the stupid sides as well) - CLOSER to islam THAN MOST ARAB NATIONS? (maybe all)
Aren't we actually the ummah, that succeded in taking care of everybody?
Christians and muslims believe in the same god - same god, different prophet - well does it matter; The West succeded in the face of god, to change miserable standards of living, disease and poverty, into decent lifes for most! What did the arab world do?

We are both brothers under god (if you believe in him), but shouldn't the younger muslim brother stop torching and killing everything the older brother succedes in? Shouldn't he share the wisdom of the west, and take part, instead of demanding everybody to play his game - a game that leaves so many out (women, homosexuals, Israelis and so on)?


JK - 2/19/2006

Its not about money - its about support!

And thanx a bunch for that!




A Dane


Thomas DK - 2/19/2006

I'm shocked. I thought that Canada was the land of tolerance.

Guess I was wrong :-(

Thomas


Thomas DK - 2/19/2006

"A Legal History of Racism in Canada"
(From The Peak SFU's Independent Student newspaper)
"Did you know that in the 19th century, there were thousands of KKK members in Canada? At the same time, did you know that it was a crime for Chinese restaurant owners to hire white women? Think racism is not an issue? Think again. Constance Backhouse is a professor of law at the University of Ottawa... She is the author of Colour-Coded: A Legal History of Racism in Canada, 1900-1950, where she takes the reader through the history of Canadian law in which non-whites have experienced systemic racism in the justice system."
http://www.hopesite.ca/remember/history/racism_canada_1.html


Thomas DK - 2/19/2006

"A Brief History of Hate-motivated Violence in Canada"
(From the Department of Justice, Canadian Government)
"Canada has a long history of hate-motivated violence towards racial or ethnic minorities. For example, in 1907 in Vancouver, a mob of whites attacked the Chinese and Japanese communities, causing at least extensive damage to stores and, it was claimed by one report, "several fatalities". During World War II, members of the Japanese Canadian community were interned and their property confiscated. In the 1970s, a series of subway attacks against members of the South Asian community in Toronto helped to result in creation of a task force to study that problem..."
http://www.hopesite.ca/remember/history/racism_canada_1.html


Peter Lidegaard Skovrup - 2/19/2006

Maybe you are right.
But in the middle east Danish companies losing money. Arla alone are losing over 10 million kr. a day (1,59 millon dollars).
But maybe, because of the "Overwhelming support", we are making money. I don't know.


Thomas DK - 2/19/2006

http://www.bnaibrith.ca/audit2004_Cap3.html

This is for 2002, and it says 928 25% of them agains jews, U guys don't like jews eh???


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/19/2006

hope you are right Mark... :-)


Mark Linham - 2/19/2006

Hold your chin up. I'll bet Danish companies really aren't losing anything at all.

Because of the overwhelming support that Denmark has now from we advocates of free speech, I believe that when the dust settles from all this nonsense, accountants of Danish firms will discover that they've really made a bundle!


Thomas DK - 2/19/2006

Sorry wrong data, I'll be back with the correct one.


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/19/2006

Yes you are right Peter, we all want to thank the American people for the support to us.
We sure need it.


- 2/19/2006

In the link below (danish) it says that in 2003, Denmark had 53 Race/Religion/Ethnicity/national origin crimes.
http://www.ekstrabladet.dk/VisArtikel.iasp?PageID=294546

The link below says that Canada had 6213 Race/Religion/Ethnicity/national origin crimes.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004885.html

Denmark Population: 5,432,335 (July 2005 est.)
Canada Population: 32,805,041 (July 2005 est.)

I leave it up to you, to do the match.


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/19/2006

Just to inform you:
The Italian embassy in Libya was torched not in protest of the danish newspapers drawings, but because a italian minister had chosen to support the freedom of speech by making a t-shirt to himself with one of the drawings....how could a danish apology help on that....?? you sure dont make any sense to me...sorry canadian guy you are just that twisted in your head that nothing seems to help...


Peter Lidegaard Skovrup - 2/19/2006

I just want to thank the American people for your support to us.
We need it.
Danish companies are losing millions of dollars every day.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks
Peter Lidegaard Skovrup
From a little spot called Denmark ;o)


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/19/2006

well Sune, if he set up a date for a new palementary election, he is going to win a lot bigger than the last election, all figures shows that...so its ok with me too....Laugh...


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/19/2006

Dear Tom,

I'm not sure you like it but anyway Tom, you asked for it.

When you talks about integrating people and that we should just look on what Canada have been doing, thats makes me laugh, because denmark are doing a whole lot more to help the refugee of the world than you ever can come up with in Cananda.

Just take a look here (its figures from UN, so you can count on them):


Canada:
Refugee per 1,000 inhabitants: 4.3
Denmark:
Refugee per 1,000 inhabitants: 13.1

Canada:
Refugee per 1,000 km2: 17.8
Denmark:
Refugee per 1,000 km2: 1,580.1

You should be so ashame coming to danes talking about taking helping muslims in the world and in our contries.

Shame on you Tom.


- 2/19/2006

Dear Tom,

I'm not sure you like it but anyway Tom, you asked for it.

When you talks about integrating people and that we should just look on what Canada have been doing, thats makes me laugh, because denmark are doing a whole lot more to help the refugee of the world than you ever can come up with in Cananda.

Just take a look here (its figures from UN, so you can count on them):


Canada:
Refugee per 1,000 inhabitants: 4.3
Denmark:
Refugee per 1,000 inhabitants: 13.1

Canada:
Refugee per 1,000 km2: 17.8
Denmark:
Refugee per 1,000 km2: 1,580.1

You should be so ashame coming to danes talking about taking helping muslims in the world and in our contries.

Shame on you Tom.


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/19/2006

Dear Tom,

I'm not sure you like it but anyway Tom, you asked for it.

When you talks about integrating people and that we should just look on what Canada have been doing, thats makes me laugh, because denmark are doing a whole lot more to help the refugee of the world than you ever can come up with in Cananda.

Just take a look here (its figures from UN, so you can count on them):


Canada:
Refugee per 1,000 inhabitants: 4.3
Denmark:
Refugee per 1,000 inhabitants: 13.1

Canada:
Refugee per 1,000 km2: 17.8
Denmark:
Refugee per 1,000 km2: 1,580.1

You should be so ashame coming to danes talking about taking helping muslims in the world and in our contries.

Shame on you Tom.


Thomas DK - 2/19/2006

Men du er fandeme ubehøvlet.


Mark Linham - 2/19/2006

Postscript: I would say that Mohammed, Allah's alledged "prophet" is a dog, but the truth is, any dog is a much higher being than he was, and does not deserve to be insulted like that.


Mark Linham - 2/19/2006

Helene,

What these militant Muslims have - even in their downtrodden and suppressed communities - is not respect in any honorable, rational, or meaningful sense of the word. Fear and intimidation is what it is - the currency of all common thugs - not respect.

So in the final analysis, they truly have (and deserve) no respect whatsoever.


Mark Linham - 2/19/2006

What is "Dnemark"?


Mark Linham - 2/19/2006

Wow, that's wonderful. I want to be a Dane!


Mark Linham - 2/19/2006

S Misra,

What you say is true of the Koran, Quran, or whatever the hell it's called - and most redundantly so! I got so bored with it, I only successfully got through the first book, chapter, or whatever the hell it was (of my own copy).

If it weren't for all these dumb-boy, violent religions (the two worst offenders being (in order): 1) Islam, and 2) Christianity (the authoritarian version at least)) over the last two millennia, who knows how advanced as a species - both technologically and culturally - we would have become by now?


Mark Linham - 2/19/2006

I may stand corrected on this point.. must research further.


infidel - 2/19/2006

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Shidane_Arone.jpg


infidel - 2/19/2006

Sadly, Canada is still in the outmoded habit of imperialistc, murderous, shoot-em up treatment of non-whites. A Nordic/Danish General probably would've preferred dialogue and civilized behavior.

Read this:

http://www.afghanan.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=968

The parallels of Canada's behavior, to that of our own neocons and southern republican fanatics is striking! Inspite of their fundamentalist attitudes, these guys (NeoCons and Canadians) are always sad that the rest of the world doesn't realize just how great they really are and how pure their motives really are. God save us from their good intentions.

Grow up Canada and stop killing innocent, peaceloving muslims. Please.


Mark Linham - 2/19/2006

Whether you're a troll or non-troll, and truly a Canadian citizen, you're not being fair.

There's a gigantic difference between the normal assimilation of immigrants by a multi-cultural society on one hand, and having no regard for your country's security and being willing to abandon the rules of civilized conduct, as an act of appeasement toward determined aggressors, on the other.

The arrogance (?), or more likely the *boorishness*, here, is yours.


Slater - 2/19/2006

Then why don't you shut the fuck up and mind your own business? ;)

If you want the image of Canada to be that you're a bunch of weak retards, then keep on doing what you're doing right now. Just don't drag us down with you.


Th.mas - 2/19/2006


Tom,
You must be right, Denmark is not fit to receive any more Muslim refugees. We should without hesitation follow the track of Switzerland, Finland, Greece, Portugal to avoid the problems!

Because of the way Danes are living with humour and sarcasm, the &#8216;sensitive&#8217; Muslims will invariably be offended. Just consider that Islam accepts, that thousands of innocent people are killed by bombs in the name of Allah, in US, Madrid, Bali, Kenya,
Istanbul and London. But a few cartoons of Mohammed can get even children out in the streets in protest with fully justified violence, burning of national flags, embassies and
so on as a matter of course!
But you are right Tom, we the Danes (i e all people of the free world) should definately have respect for this noble tradition ?

JP&#8217;s cartoons reveal, that the caricature was not a caricature, but a very precise analysis of the driving force in many Moslems view of society.
Tom, what do you know about the Danish society ?, from your mail it seems to
be limited indeed. But maybe you can explain why Muslims in great numbers
seek to Northern Europe(incl.Denmark), when there are 57 Islamic countries,
with superior values in the form of no democracy. Why ?

On the bright side, it has been an eye-opener.


BB - 2/19/2006

Do you mean "Hans Island"?
I think we laugh at that one, being more interested in why the candadians are so keen to "steal" an island from the people of Greenland in the middle of elections!
We all know its a lost cause for the Canadians, so its just a laugh... even if the canadians had any right to this Greenlandic territory - we would still laugh... its about as silly as some cartoons!
But you take it seriously, or what?


Tom Tolbene - 2/19/2006

I am not a Muslim, nor am I pretending to be Canadian. I simply disagree with the techniques used by the Danish prior to the cartoons, and certainly after the cartoons. As I wrote before, many Canadians agree with me. Perhaps, this hostility from the Danish is due to prior conflicts between our countries, or perhaps you actually feel you're right. Either way, I don't care, it's your country's image, not mine. While I have to wish you success, I wouldn't mind your image being tarnished in the process.

Judging from this board, it seems many Canadians are right to think that the Danish are arrogant and rude.


Slater - 2/19/2006

Yeah, that was my guess too.


S Misra - 2/19/2006

Well, the dirty little Muhammad is a true son of the dirty little Mohammed, the so-called prophet, and like his teacher, would kill nonbelievers. Fine, Muhammed, except there are no Muslims, only Sunni Terrorists and Shiite Terrorists. You must be terrorists because you must follow the Koran, which advocates murder of anyone who does not believe in a gutter religion that promises vaginal hymens to homicidal maniacs who think nothing of killing fellow Shiites and Sunnis and other men, women, and children, like that lunatic husband and wife in Lebanon, who bombed a wedding party of Muslims at a hotel. Muhammed, be a man, strap on some bombs, and blow yourself up killing some Sunni, if they are your mortal enemies, or some Shiites, if they are your mortal enemies, and leave civilized people alone. Stop sitting in a tutu, a skirt in your little hovel, and act like a Mohammedean rock worshipping hater you are.


S Misra - 2/19/2006

As a person from India living in the United States, I promise to buy Danish products and encourage others to do the same. Whatever drops of business Danes did in backwater Muslim nations, will, I pray, be made up by civilized people everwhere.


S Misra - 2/19/2006

As an Indian, I offer my condolenses to the Russian people that they are cursed with an Islamic population, which not too long ago butchered hundreds of children. Those murderers hoped their prophet lived up to his word in rewarding them with 72 hymens in that gutter heaven. Fight on.


S Misra - 2/19/2006

You dirty little anti-Semite, when you hate Jews, you hate the religion that gave birth to your pathetic religion, which soon started killing each other, remember Ali?


S Misra - 2/19/2006

Muhammed was an adult man who took a mere child as a wife, a child. He killed. He justified killing. He promises women whose hymens men can break in the gutter that is Muslim heaven. He cannot hold a candle to Jesus or to Buddha or to Gandhi or to Martin Luther King.


S Misra - 2/19/2006

Poor victimized bomb strapped murderers of children, women, and men, Sunni of Shiite and Shiite of Sunni. Muslims cannot unite because the two sects hate each other. Your prophet married a child, advocated violence, and has blood on his hands. His Koran is a book that justifies murder of nonbelievers. It is such a poor book, such a pathetic prophet, that your so-called "Muslim" nations ban evangelism, because you know that better religions such as the religion of Jesus of Nazareth will convert the best among you while the rest murder, hoping to get the honor of puncturing 72 hymens from a fallen and degraded thing you call "God."


S Misra - 2/19/2006

My experience with Hasan exactly. When he has no rational thought, he simply calls names, insults, makes unsupported assertions, and generally marches down the street naked as the day he was born but in his mind dressed in robes. He is, in short, little tantrumming Hasan.


S Misra - 2/19/2006

Huh? Well, it doesn't matter, it makes as much sense as anything else you say. Try English on an English site. Unless you are afraid of thinking clearly and writing well, talents wasted on justifying Islam, rightly called Sunni or Shiite, killers of each other, I-Slam into the World Trade Towers, that is one thing I-slam means to me.


S Misra - 2/19/2006

First, it is not "Juses" but "Jesus," and in the Koran it clearly says that Jesus is a blasphemer and that there is no God as Christians see Him. The Koran (and WHY do the chapters have such bizarre chapter titles as "The Bee" and The Goat?") clearly asks believers in Islam to kill nonbelievers in Islam and includes those who believe in multiple gods, in Judaism, and in Christianity. You DO NOT BELIEVE in Jesus as Jesus, and by redefining him in your violent so-called "holy" book, doesn't change the fact that if we judge by words alone, Jesus is clearly superior to the man who took a child as a wife and the killer who was Mohammed. Jesus was nonviolent, and that is the only rational way. Muhammad, read your Koran and stop bullshitting about it.


S Misra - 2/19/2006

Actually, Polo, you are quite right. Bacon is sold on the black market in Afghanistan. Muhammed Ali Jinnah, founder of so-called Pakistan ate pork and drank wine. It is not what goes in the mouth but what comes out that makes a man.


S Misra - 2/19/2006

Where have you been, my Hasan? All those things have been done. It's called freedom, you know, liberty, human rights, dignity, well...wait, none of your Mussalman tin-horn dictatorships have any of those ideas and none of you Mussalman slaves know about freedom. Poor pathetic Hasan, existing as a slave to his masters. Interesting that all Iraqi Moslems, Sunni and Shiite, were like castrated men under Sadaam, and only became bomb-murdering men when freed by these United States of America and its Allies from across the globe. Apparently, you all lie down like obdient dogs when punished, but bite the hands of your liberators, then each other's hands in tribal and ethnic and religious mayhem.


S Misra - 2/19/2006

Ensan, meet Hasan. Hasan, meet Ensan. Tweedledee, meet Tweedledum and Tweeledum, meet Tweeledee. I don't think either of you conjoined twins would recognize refined thoughts if they landed on your heads. I thank you both for accusing me of "picking" on TweedleHasan, and I thank TweedleHasan for saying, once, that I chased him barking. The crowd that murdered Socrates regarded him as an annoying gadfly. I am honored you regard me a barking dog, as that is much bigger than a gadfly. I believe in nonviolence, but Islam has no clue as to its power. It freed African Americans, and, indeed, all Americans of apartheid, it freed India of the English while the Muslims groveled at their feet, and it freed Eastern Europe and Russia in the last years of those regimes. You barbarians, meanwhile, happily murder each other, Sunni and Shiite, at the drop of a hat. But what I find truly infantile is that you like dishing it out, but you can't take it. You kill innocents, men women and children, including fellow Muslims, and think your perverted God actually hands you a gutter heaven where you get 72 hymens. Pathetic. Sad. Brutish. Barbaric. Rock worshippers.


S Misra - 2/19/2006

There you go again, Hasan. You cry about a small evil, while ignoring large evils. Pakistan murdered 1-3 million Bengali Muslims in the early 1970s. Why don't you cry about those. All evil is evil, whether Hindus do it or Islam does it. Stop crying Hasan. Yours is a violent religion, so is Hinduism. Don't cry when your victims of a thousand years come back to kill you. Accept it like a man. You love the sword, die by it, not a simpering whimpering baby, brave beheading civilians, crying when yours are murdered. All murder is bad, why don't you admit it, anti-Semitic, terrorist-supporting, racist author quoting, homophobic little Hasan? Grow up.


S Misra - 2/19/2006

I have "explored" the Koran by reading the Koran, and it is a violent book that hates Jews and Christians, and advocates the murder of nonbelievers. Thanks, Muhammed, but I prefer Jesus, who was nonviolent, or Buddha, or Gandhi, or Martin Luther King, or Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Violent people are illogical and unable to win others over by reason. So, Muhammed, a blah review by a "encyclopedia," the lowest common denominator of information, is not good enough. The Koran, if anyone cares to "explore" it, is a brutal book, therefore doomed to the dustbin of history, along with the worship of Baal, Zeus, and the Aztec gods.


S Misra - 2/18/2006

Actually, Muhammed, pigs are quite clean. Most of these kosher religious laws came about during a primitive time, when diseases such as worms spread into farm animals. Ironically, pigs are much cleaner than chickens, turkeys, and other farm raised birds. It's not what goes into your mouth, Muhammed, but what comes out that reveals your character, which apparently is not as high as it could be. But a violent religion is an insidious thing, it debases general morals and manners.


Richard Stalcup - 2/18/2006

Morten, if you go to the Danish Embassy
(USA) website, then you will know that Denmark is doing quite well trading in the United States. Demand for Danish products has never been higher...and that will only go up as news of this boycott gets out.

With the Nazi occupation of Europe during World War II, Denmark stood out
as the one place Hitler couldn't carry out the holocaust to near perfection. The Danes resisted from King to commoner, and most Danish Jews were able to escape to Sweden.

If the Nazi's couldn't force Denmark to bend to their final solution, then you are right in thinking that the words of neo-fascists will not have much impact.

Still, yours is a nation that merits support. I'll be buying Danish.






Richard Stalcup - 2/18/2006

Morten, if you go to the Danish Embassy
(USA) website, then you will know that Denmark is doing quite well trading in the United States. Demand for Danish products has never been higher...and that will only go up as news of this boycott gets out.

With the Nazi occupation of Europe during World War II, Denmark stood out
as the one place Hitler couldn't carry out the holocaust to near perfection. The Danes resisted from King to commoner, and most Danish Jews were able to escape to Sweden.

If the Nazi's couldn't force Denmark to bend to their final solution, then you are right in thinking that the words of neo-fascists will not have much impact.

Still, yours is a nation that merits support. I'll be buying Danish.






Sune Jensen - 2/18/2006

My english is bad
but I have nt use it for many years
I am Danish in my roots NOT a f*`%%5g
muslim. I love my country but not my PM - that was a piece of cake - right ????


Richard Stalcup - 2/18/2006

Civilized Muslims? They cower in fear of authoritarian government and religion, organizations that depend on ignorance to remain in power.

At one time, Islam supported people who were at the forefront of science and mathematical achievement. Indeed, Western Civilization as we know it would not exist without the key contributions of people of Islamic faith.

People like you were the reason why a faith that once served as a fountain of human enlightenment devolved into a servile wing of fascist Arab governments and terrorist organizations.


Gary - 2/18/2006

Quote: "Screw your God. He's against democracy as well."

Most aethiests in this group have restrained themselves from making this sort of comment. I guess you are the exception. Are you trying to start a new debate here or do you just enjoy being blunt?


infidel - 2/18/2006

All you Danes, Canadians are a little slow in the head. He still doesn't udnerstand what the issue here is. He still keeps talking about "immigrants". The trouble is not with "immigrants" but with islam.

Or very likely he's a muslim troll, pretending to be a dumb canuck ;)


Thomas DK - 2/18/2006

Yes you guys are far ahead of us, much smarter and openmindet towards muslims :-)

Denmark Muslim 2%
Canada Muslim 1.9%

Denmark Literacy total population: 100%
Canada Literacy total population: 97%

Much of the Canadian immigration consists of European. This makes quite a difference. Not???


Th.mas - 2/18/2006


To Tom - hi there!
I do not think the Danes are angry in any way, but they surely feel that the attack on Denmark is a gross
injustice, when the facts are taken into account. It is a very generous nation of only 5 million people, which support the Islamic countries with all kind of aid; think Denmark is # 2 in the world per capita in donor aid! Then the fact that Muslims always fell they are the victims, yet always demand respect! But they do not have to show any respect. Just notice how many danish flags (which is the Christian cross) are burned every day. Also in the day to day life, they do not show respect, the crime rate (rape,theft) for immigrants are much higher than for everybody else, and so forth.
Denmark is an welcome target for all the Islamic regimes (and Islamists) with our insignificant size, but a thorn in the side, because we are liberal, free and democratic and part of the coalition.

The cartoons are surely not the hole story behind the unrest, but sparked it off. Why ? First of all the cartoons were printed more than 3 months ago, and only when a delegation of several Imams travelled to Egypt to present a very doubtful report with many false and inaccurate accusations
against the Danish freedom of speech and the society in the general, the protest slowly generated momentum. And now it seems out of control!
The world never saw any demonstration of condemnation from Muslims when the real bombs went off in Allah's name, but when a cartoon showed a bomb in connection with Moh'd, there was hell to pay, that is hard to accept.
But back to Canada. Hope you will continue to have good experience with Muslims. If you manage to do that, perhaps our different ways of integration, where I think you demand more ?, and we are too wimpy. E.g
social benefit etc. are paid out with no strings attached. It obviously backfires now. Many leftist and the élite argue that we should pay out even more generously! However, the Danes and Europeans have had an eye-opener beyond measure.

Hopefully the entire free world will unite behind the 4 freedoms.
United we stand, devided we fall. Or ?


Slater - 2/18/2006

You are probably referring to me (among others at least), and I can tell you right now, I'm not the least bit angry.

I just think you are an idiot.


M.T. - 2/18/2006

I don't understand you Tom, you talk about "the danes" as if you know something I don't know - and I live here!
I think for the most, the danes are in some sort of shock, or maybe just disbelief; theres been tough talk on immigration, but there's been more of the "we have to make this thing work" - and thats why I think many danes feel stabbed in the back, because they try to make it better, and try to make a difference - and there you are bragging about something which has consequenses, far beyond anyone could ever think about!
I'm sorry - your generalising ways, is nothing but a fault. Wish you the best of luck, trying to hunt this cartoon-incident down - maybe read some more, and loose the preconcieved opinions!


Pomerol - 2/18/2006

"I USUALLY don't get angry"........you see, what you just highlighted yourself....

As one whispers in the wind, will have an effect to how ones surroundings will reply. Danes are not angry, but we will use our freedom of expression to show our perspective. As I already told you. No violence has been used by the Danes in the conflict, we are believers of non-violence. Don't mess up the Danish perspective. What you are witnessing are all acts of a democratic people. For us, freedom of expression is at the core of our democracy. In many ways to be honest, I do not think you have given the cornerstones of your Democracy much thought, as you seem to be willing to flush them out without even thinking twice. We have been used to taking our freedom for granted, but this anger directed towards the entire west and especially Denmark, has in many ways been a wakeup call. I think you are still taking your freedom for granted, but freedom doesn't come free.

Let me just repeat that very important message one more time:

Freedom doesn't come free!


Tom Tolbene - 2/18/2006

I don't get the anger directed at me because I point out a position that I and many Canadians believe to be correct: the Canadian immigration has succeeded much greater than that of Denmark, and somewhat of Europe, in general.

I usually don't get angry, but I really do think you Danish just may be jealous or angry because of our countries' previous disagreements.

As I've stated in numerous posts, your mistakes affect all Westerners, which means I need you to succeed (more than I actually want you to succeed). However, your arrogance reminds me of many, not all, Americans. Notice how the world pretty much hates the U.S., you're going to become to same way.


Mark Linham - 2/18/2006

O.K.


James Z. - 2/18/2006

This will require a little time (I need more money from work), but if I can convince my girlfriend, I might actually plunge and take a visit.

I'll continue telling others to try Danish products, vacations, or girls!!


Thomas DK - 2/18/2006

Fellow world citezens with muslim background SPEAK UP, please tell us your viewpoint on this.

Kindest regards from Denmark


James Z. - 2/18/2006

I'll definately be buying some beer, and I hope Darion does too. I never really thought of movies, but I do like foreign films. I'll have to investigate how to purchase them so it benefits Denmark, not just another American film distributer (or in the best case, it benefits both countries).

thanks!!


Slater - 2/18/2006

That's pretty much what I would say.

But in this case, this guy is so impossibly retarded, I wouldn't waste the breath.


RSA - 2/18/2006

First thing is I am not a muslim.
Second thing is I believe in free spech
Third thing is "with free speech comes responsibility"

So how will you wearing these cartoons on your t-shirt help. What danish products do you suggest - bacon?

Man, your a bigger fool that I thought.


infidel - 2/18/2006

If the arab and other islamic hordes hadn't occupied the "holy" land, there wouldn't have BEEN any crusades.


Aamer - 2/18/2006

yes and nobody says that these cartoons were printed in the newspapers but they are circulating. These were shown on on an internet based discussion forum and that's why we are worried.


Peter Pedersen - 2/18/2006

Flemming Rose in Washington Post 19.02.06:

Why I Published Those Cartoons

Childish. Irresponsible. Hate speech. A provocation just for the sake of provocation. A PR stunt.

Critics of 12 cartoons of the prophet Muhammad published in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten have not minced their words.

They say that freedom of expression does not imply an endorsement of insulting people’s religious feelings, and besides, they add, the media censor themselves every day. So, please do not teach us a lesson about limitless freedom of speech.

I agree that the freedom to publish things doesn’t mean you publish everything. Jyllands-Posten would not publish pornographic images or graphic details of dead bodies; swear words rarely make it into our pages. So we are not fundamentalists in our support for freedom of expression.

But the cartoon story is different.

Those examples have to do with exercising restraint because of ethical standards and taste; call it editing.

By contrast, I commissioned the cartoons in response to several incidents of self-censorship in Europe caused by widening fears and feelings of intimidation in dealing with issues related to Islam.

And I still believe that this is a topic that we Europeans must confront, challenging moderate Muslims to speak out.

The idea wasn’t to provoke gratuitously — and we certainly didn’t intend to trigger violent demonstrations throughout the Muslim world. Our goal was simply to push back self-imposed limits on expression that seemed to be closing in tighter.

At the end of September, a Danish standup comedian said in an interview with Jyllands-Posten that he had no problem urinating on the Bible in front of a camera, but he dared not do the same thing with the Koran.

This was the culmination of a series of disturbing instances of self-censorship.

Last September, a Danish children’s writer had trouble finding an illustrator for a book about the life of Muhammad. Three people turned down the job for fear of consequences.

The person who finally accepted insisted on anonymity, which in my book is a form of self-censorship. European translators of a critical book about Islam also did not want their names to appear on the book cover beside the name of the author, a Somalia-born Dutch politician who has herself been in hiding.

Around the same time, the Tate gallery in London withdrew an installation by the avant-garde artist John Latham depicting the Koran, Bible and Talmud torn to pieces.

The museum explained that it did not want to stir things up after the London bombings. (A few months earlier, to avoid offending Muslims, a museum in Goteborg, Sweden, had removed a painting with a sexual motif and a quotation from the Koran.)

Finally, at the end of September, Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen met with a group of imams, one of whom called on the prime minister to interfere with the press in order to get more positive coverage of Islam.

So, over two weeks we witnessed a half-dozen cases of self-censorship, pitting freedom of speech against the fear of confronting issues about Islam.

This was a legitimate news story to cover, and Jyllands-Posten decided to do it by adopting the well-known journalistic principle: Show, don’t tell.

I wrote to members of the association of Danish cartoonists asking them “to draw Muhammad as you see him.” We certainly did not ask them to make fun of the prophet. Twelve out of 25 active members responded.

We have a tradition of satire when dealing with the royal family and other public figures, and that was reflected in the cartoons.

The cartoonists treated Islam the same way they treat Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and other religions. And by treating Muslims in Denmark as equals they made a point:

We are integrating you into the Danish tradition of satire because you are part of our society, not strangers. The cartoons are including, rather than excluding, Muslims.

The cartoons do not in any way demonize or stereotype Muslims. In fact, they differ from one another both in the way they depict the prophet and in whom they target.

One cartoon makes fun of Jyllands-Posten, portraying its cultural editors as a bunch of reactionary provocateurs. Another suggests that the children’s writer who could not find an illustrator for his book went public just to get cheap publicity. A third puts the head of the anti-immigration Danish People’s Party in a lineup, as if she is a suspected criminal.

One cartoon — depicting the prophet with a bomb in his turban — has drawn the harshest criticism.

Angry voices claim the cartoon is saying that the prophet is a terrorist or that every Muslim is a terrorist.

I read it differently: Some individuals have taken the religion of Islam hostage by committing terrorist acts in the name of the prophet. They are the ones who have given the religion a bad name.

The cartoon also plays into the fairy tale about Aladdin and the orange that fell into his turban and made his fortune. This suggests that the bomb comes from the outside world and is not an inherent characteristic of the prophet.

On occasion, Jyllands-Posten has refused to print satirical cartoons of Jesus, but not because it applies a double standard.

In fact, the same cartoonist who drew the image of Muhammed with a bomb in his turban drew a cartoon with Jesus on the cross having dollar notes in his eyes and another with the star of David attached to a bomb fuse. There were, however, no embassy burnings or death threats when we published those.

Has Jyllands-Posten insulted and disrespected Islam?

It certainly didn’t intend to.

But what does respect mean? When I visit a mosque, I show my respect by taking off my shoes. I follow the customs, just as I do in a church, synagogue or other holy place.

But if a believer demands that I, as a nonbeliever, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect, but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy.

This is exactly why Karl Popper, in his seminal work “The Open Society and Its Enemies,” insisted that one should not be tolerant with the intolerant.

Nowhere do so many religions coexist peacefully as in a democracy where freedom of expression is a fundamental right.

In Saudi Arabia, you can get arrested for wearing a cross or having a Bible in your suitcase, while Muslims in secular Denmark can have their own mosques, cemeteries, schools, TV and radio stations.

I acknowledge that some people have been offended by the publication of the cartoons, and Jyllands-Posten has apologized for that. But we cannot apologize for our right to publish material, even offensive material. You cannot edit a newspaper if you are paralyzed by worries about every possible insult.

I am offended by things in the paper every day: transcripts of speeches by Osama bin Laden, photos from Abu Ghraib, people insisting that Israel should be erased from the face of the Earth, people saying the Holocaust never happened.

But that does not mean that I would refrain from printing them as long as they fell within the limits of the law and of the newspaper’s ethical code. That other editors would make different choices is the essence of pluralism.

As a former correspondent in the Soviet Union, I am sensitive about calls for censorship on the grounds of insult.

This is a popular trick of totalitarian movements:

*Label any critique or call for debate as an insult and punish the offenders.*

That is what happened to human rights activists and writers such as Andrei Sakharov, Vladimir Bukovsky, Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Natan Sharansky, Boris Pasternak. The regime accused them of anti-Soviet propaganda, just as some Muslims are labeling 12 cartoons in a Danish newspaper anti-Islamic.

The lesson from the Cold War is: If you give in to totalitarian impulses once, new demands follow. The West prevailed in the Cold War because we stood by our fundamental values and did not appease totalitarian tyrants.

Since the Sept. 30 publication of the cartoons, we have had a constructive debate in Denmark and Europe about freedom of expression, freedom of religion and respect for immigrants and people’s beliefs.

Never before have so many Danish Muslims participated in a public dialogue - in town hall meetings, letters to editors, opinion columns and debates on radio and TV.

We have had no anti-Muslim riots, no Muslims fleeing the country and no Muslims committing violence. The radical imams who misinformed their counterparts in the Middle East about the situation for Muslims in Denmark have been marginalized. They no longer speak for the Muslim community in Denmark because moderate Muslims have had the courage to speak out against them.

In January, Jyllands-Posten ran three full pages of interviews and photos of moderate Muslims saying no to being represented by the imams.

They insist that their faith is compatible with a modern secular democracy.

A network of moderate Muslims committed to the constitution has been established, and the anti-immigration People’s Party called on its members to differentiate between radical and moderate Muslims, i.e. between Muslims propagating sharia law and Muslims accepting the rule of secular law.

The Muslim face of Denmark has changed, and it is becoming clear that this is not a debate between “them” and “us,” but between those committed to democracy in Denmark and those who are not.

This is the sort of debate that Jyllands-Posten had hoped to generate when it chose to test the limits of self-censorship by calling on cartoonists to challenge a Muslim taboo.

Did we achieve our purpose? Yes and no.

Some of the spirited defenses of our freedom of expression have been inspiring. But tragic demonstrations throughout the Middle East and Asia were not what we anticipated, much less desired. Moreover, the newspaper has received 104 registered threats, 10 people have been arrested, cartoonists have been forced into hiding because of threats against their lives and Jyllands-Posten’s headquarters have been evacuated several times due to bomb threats. This is hardly a climate for easing self-censorship.

Still, I think the cartoons now have a place in two separate narratives, one in Europe and one in the Middle East.

In the words of the Somali-born Dutch politician Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the integration of Muslims into European societies has been sped up by 300 years due to the cartoons; perhaps we do not need to fight the battle for the Enlightenment all over again in Europe.

The narrative in the Middle East is more complex, but that has very little to do with the cartoons.


Mark Linham - 2/18/2006

Tom Tolbene:

You are utterly, desperately and absolutely wrong. And the Canadian government is also dead wrong, if you've correctly represented their position.

The principle of individual rights, and the principle of individual rights to freedom of speech, is absolute. About this absolutely vital and essential, life-or-death, human matter there can be no compromise, whatsoever, at any time, under any circumstances - or any apology, whatsoever, at any time, under any circumstances.

No sir, it is *they* (the militant Muslims) who owe the rest of us an apology for their irrational, barbaric behavior - at the very least. The initiation, or the threat to initiate force is not a right, or permissible - and must be ruthlessly enforced against. However, speech, as such, is categorially a basic, inalienable, human right; and no one ever owes anyone anything at all - let alone an apology - for the exercise of a basic human right.

If we are not able to communicate with each other honestly as individual human beings, and state what we really think, there can be no communication in any meaningful sense between any of us at all. This is true whether we are talking about person-to person communication generally, or communication, as such, between representatives of different countries, ethnic groups, or cultures.

In the specific case of the moment, we need to be free to talk about, draw cartoons, make movies/documentaries, music, etc, discussing, depicting, explaining and describing what is wrong with Islam - and there is much wrong with Islam, as the actions of their militants prove every goddamn day.


M.T. - 2/18/2006

Between the coast of Sweden, Germany and Poland, lies the small exotic island of "Bornholm".

Bornholm is known to many europeans, and all danes, as a perfect summerholliday-spot; because of its sandy beaches, incredible nature and historic sites. It is also known as a producer of many gourmet-goods, and I promise you, the quality of these products are very high and very tasty!
I used to live there, before moving to the big city - but I always try to get hold of some of that local stuff.

I've found a site, where they'll pack a little bit of everything, from this sunny spot in the Baltic Sea - I suggest you try it, and if you're pleased: take your next holliday there: you wont regret!

The site is in danish:

http://bornholmer-pakken.dk

But you can also mail them, and ask for one of the packets (I think they have 5 different):

pakken@bornholmer-pakken.dk

Especially, when you've tasted the mustard (secret recipe), you won't have anything else - and thats a promise!
If you want further information about this island - leave a mail and a message, and I will be glad to help!


M.T. - 2/18/2006

Denmark is also one of the top 5 (I think) producers of quality-tobacco (if you are into smoking!)
T
Have a danish cigar - a freedomcigar!


M.T. - 2/18/2006

Like the one called Aalborg Akvavit, or the other snaps from this brand "De Danske Spritfabrikker".

But please buy them outside denmark, as we have soo high taxes on alcohol!


M.T. - 2/18/2006

Denmark has one of europes biggest cinemaindustries - check this link for titles:

http://www.moviemail-online.co.uk/countries/Denmark


I can recommend:

Strings: A beautiful and giant-scale, US-style drama, played by puppets (and puppeteers) from all over the world - really stunning!

Brothers: with danish Hollywood actress Connie Nielsen (Gladiator, The Hunted)

Inheritance: Beautiful film about a man transformed by power, unvulingtarily taking over the family firm.

Reconstruction: One of the most beautifully shot films, with a twisted storyline - in copenhagen! (no burning flags, though!)

Festen: (THe Celebration) - a different danish take on a difficult subject; mesmorising.

All of Carl Th. Dreyer's work - one of the worlds best known earlier directors.


I dont know where to buy them in the US - but heres the titles anyway... Enjoy!


M.T. - 2/18/2006

Denmark has one of europes biggest cinemaindustries - check this link for titles:

http://www.moviemail-online.co.uk/countries/Denmark


I can recommend:

Strings: A beautiful and giant-scale, US-style drama, played by puppets (and puppeteers) from all over the world - really stunning!

Brothers: with danish Hollywood actress Connie Nielsen (Gladiator, The Hunted)

Inheritance: Beautiful film about a man transformed by power, unvulingtarily taking over the family firm.

Reconstruction: One of the most beautifully shot films, with a twisted storyline - in copenhagen! (no burning flags, though!)

Festen: (THe Celebration) - a different danish take on a difficult subject; mesmorising.

All of Carl Th. Dreyer's work - one of the worlds best known earlier directors.


I dont know where to buy them in the US - but heres the titles anyway... Enjoy!


Pomerol - 2/18/2006

Absolutely Guf - We must differ between religious humans, and religious human crazies!

The thing is that if the brainpowers of Islam do not believe in an ontological objective reality, I just do not understand why we aren't hearing more from these people in a public social Context. Why have these Muslim brainpowers not decided to unite with the rest of the democratic world against the oppression of Muslims. If this is in fact the way most Muslims sees Islam, how can some fanatic Imams keep on preaching every friday in front of huge crowds?

Ensan

But but but using post modern theory as your prefered optic will, as I see it, be a step across the "but". By using post modern theory you must admit that Allah is in fact not one. Allah is percieved by every individual and therefore there must be as many representations of Allah as there are Muslims in the world.


Mark Linham - 2/18/2006

Here are some buy Danish links that may be of assistance to you:

http://www.buydanish.net/

http://buydanish.home.comcast.net/products.htm

http://supportdenmark.com/

http://www.danishfood.net/

http://www.danishexporters.dk/scripts/danishexporters/danishexporters_forside.asp

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/




Mark Linham - 2/18/2006

Here are some buy Danish links that may be of assistance to you:

http://www.buydanish.net/

http://buydanish.home.comcast.net/products.htm

http://supportdenmark.com/

http://www.danishfood.net/

http://www.danishexporters.dk/scripts/danishexporters/danishexporters_forside.asp

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/




Mark Linham - 2/18/2006

Agreed! In both Denmark and the U.S.A.!


Slater - 2/18/2006

Learn what? To be a big bunch of weak faggots?

I smell a troll. It simply isn't humanly possible to be as stupid as you without trying.


James Z. - 2/18/2006

Hi Darion,
I too am an American, and I have also had some trouble finding Danish products outside of cheese (I think I've gained like 10 pounds since exclusively eating Danish cheese). I think America doesn't carry a lot of European goods/food outside of beer. Anyway, I agree with M.T. about the internet, a lot of the stuff is pretty cheap for bulk orders. I don't remember any exact internet sites, but just type "Buy Danish" in google, and you should be fine.


Thomas DK - 2/18/2006

"Disclaimer: Hilsner der ikke lever op til sidens formål om at skabe tolerance og respekt, vil ikke blive offentliggjort."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
If you don't agree we won't publish your oppinion.
Great way to show respect and tollerance. You guys are cute ;-)


M.T. - 2/18/2006

If you cant get it in the stores - try the internet!
I always buy stuff in the US trough the net, if i'm not able to find it here!

And cheers, I'm amazed by the support!


Darion - 2/18/2006

HI GUYS. I am posting to try and start awareness of how few danish products I've been able to run into here in caly, it seems amazing to me actually because i even planned to be on a strict "danish diet" for a fw weeks , but all i could end up with was cheese, this was commitment after my no-dairy 'raw-food diet' I'd been on, no carlsberg around here ir any other danish beer I've been ready to spot. UMmm, also I find it funny because of the culture and state of awareness out here as far as nobody wanting dairy which is hormone pumped etc. Everyone is aware already that E.U products are considered more "ORGANIC" out here in California so, perhaps the Danish can open some new markets?? I've visited every liqour and Grocery market in 20 miles around, NOthing but cheese!.. which is really good by the way.


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/18/2006

This might help:
http://www.al-bab.com/arab/science.htm
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9045366

The people who lived in what later became the Muslim world were very advanced in math, medicine and other sciences.

Islam is not anti-science, but that science should not contradict Islamic teachings. There always seems to be a
"but"!


Darion - 2/18/2006

HI GUYS,


Rick (Dane) - 2/18/2006

Hmmm...
First off, I love Canada. Some of my family migrated to Calgary way back, and at the same time some of my friends migrated to Toronto as well. But their experience by getting into Canada, by London has been just as difficult as our newly passed laws in Denmark. We keep getting hit in the head for our newly passed laws on fugitives and imigrations, but this has nothing to do with the actual case regarding some drawings depicted in Jyllands-Posten.
Your are and most others are right, the Danish meltingpot might not be as great as in the US, sorry but I am not including Canada, but we might be getting there - BUT not by making religion more important than laws.

Laws are the cornerstones in a democratic country. We are not to moralize others no matter their inheritance, including other western cultures and newspapers, but as long as the obey the laws, we can only accept their position. No matter far right or far left or even fanatics.

The Danish PM should NEVER appologize for something he has no control of.
And unless we change to a policestate or a dictatorship he will never gain this kind of control.

In Denmark we have seen many moderate muslims demonstrate, not against the childlike cartoons, but against the uproar we have seen in the middleeast and asia.
BUT actually the worst part of this case is not the uproar world wide, but that the far right all over is getting more followers due to the outrageous fanatic muslim behavior we have seen so far.
And what a shame, i would have loved the EU to have open borders rather than similiar conditions of what you see at the Texas-Mexican border.


Pomerol - 2/18/2006

1. Fire the editor

That would be an act against freedom of press. This is the way it has been handle in several muslim countries...


2. Nation-wide gathering to promote Muslim-West relations

We are doing all we can to integrate muslims in danish society. But doing a gathering at the moment would really be an anticlimax I think. Many muslims aren't ready for a gathering. It takes "two" to do a gathering.
But don't be mistaken - we are living in peace here in the North. We have had no mentionable violence in relation to this conflict within Denmark.


3. PM must not apologize as he has been: "i apologize...but free speech.."; instead he must state flat-out that he apologizes, no "ifs", "buts"

Still even if he did this, it would not change anything in relation to our opinion of a free press. We will not have the free press controled by Islam our any other "power". Or should we listen to the Muslims and regulate the laws in relation to the press?

4. Remove troops from Afghan and Iraq

You must be a leftist?. The troops are there to help the Muslims, and not to hurt them. Did you ever see the old Kabul. It was horrible!

5. Some celebratory event to promote Islam integration in Danish society...it could be anything, like a sporting event or concert

Anyone can make such an event. And today muslims and Danes gathered in a peacedemonstration in Copenhagen.
Buy I don't think many Danes are feeling a need to party while TV-spots keeps on showing our PM and the Danish Flag on fire. And while we are hearing Muslims shout "Death to Denmark" etc...

6. Study Canadian immigration, and learn

This looks pretty much like the answer I have gotten from many Muslims. Study the Quran and learn. Well tell you what the Danes are a very educated people - and even though everyone should always be inspired to learn more, your very statement makes me take one step backwards.

"Follow the man who seeks the truth, flee he who has found it."

Europe cultur goes way back. It's a totally different scenario, and we really do not have anywhere to look in relation to solving the immigration problems. We will have to create new ways to solve this problem. Of course we can learn from other countries - but no one holds an immigration solution that can be directly tranfered to Europe just like that. If someone had that solution we would have copied it a long time ago...


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/18/2006

Greata debate, thank you for the link!


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/18/2006

Bus, please provide me with your embassy's addresses around the globe. I feel like burning some embassies in retaliation to your inflammatory speech. While at it, send me some flags to burn too please.


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/18/2006

I like that hasan does not throw personal insults too. I don't like that he does his intellectual "thinking" by copying and pasting from the web:

http://forums.contractoruk.com/nextnewesttothread2916.html

Did you notice the lack of intelligent responses if at all?


M.T. - 2/18/2006

Tom, how many of the muslim community in Canada works, and contributes to the nation?


Holly - 2/18/2006

I will just let your reply stand all by it self for all to see!!!!!!!!!!!
Oink oink to you!


infidel - 2/18/2006

Hasan,

The argument is not that other religions, infidels are 100% pure. However, the balance of power WITHIN these infidel systems exists in such a way that the sensible infidels OVERWHELM the crazies. ;)

Otherwise the islamic world would have been wiped off the face of the earth in retaliation for 9/11, 3/11, 7/7 and Beslan. Beslan was the worst in my judgment.

By the way, I have noticed that you don't throw personal insults in any of your posts, isnpite of some serious attempts at ridicule by certain "christians" ;). I admire you for that. We want MORE Hasans and less Osamas. (and less Canucks, Allah willing)

Love


infidel - 2/18/2006

As long as you keep lumping moslems with the other sensible non-moslem immigrants -black, white, brown, yellow, pink, mauve - you do not grasp whats at stake.

Now go back and read that sentence again ;)

By "moslem" I do not mean the likes of Fareed Zakaria in the U.S, or Khader in Denmark. These are glaring exceptions. Islam is a politcal ideology as well as "religious". It sees the world divided into black and white - House of Islam and House of WAR.

House of Islam and House of WAR!.

Even if you assumed that 95% of the moslems are sensible, and modern in their outlook, the 5% (Hopefully 5% is not too optimistic ;)), becomes a serious, dangerous element to their host societies AND most importantly, to the SENSIBLE moslems. This pattern has been repeated time and again in Europe. Britain is not an "immigrant" country in the sense of America or Canada, yet they have tried to integrate the moslems; They have moslem Lords in the house of Lords. What they got in return for these attempts was 7/7; and placards threatening more.

Islam can exist only in a state of absolute superiority; its the nature of the beast.

Any attempts by the infidels - secular humanists, nihilists, anarchists(Russia ;)), republicans (USA), socialists (France, scandinavia), atheists(china), christians (Britain,U.S), jews (israel), hindus (India), buddhists (thailand), animists (Sudan, Nigeria) - to question this attempt at supremacy is IMMEDIATELY branded "oppression" ...and the war begins. Islam is involved in conflagrations with all these countries - a veritably "multicultural" cross-section of humanity ;).

Its the BIG picture that you need to worry about; and not, that highly refined indian moslem immigrant doctor in your neighborhood who is intellectually and "spiritually" closer to Thomas Jefferson and John Locke than to Mohammad. Otherwise you are indirectly, unwittingly, tolerating intolerance, and being condescending towards moderate moslems who are trying to break free of this medieval cult. By the way, the punishment for "leaving" islam is death. Integrate THAT. ;)


Muhammad Mosa - 2/18/2006

I wish one thing, to meet you both and kill you.


M.T. - 2/18/2006

You are wrong about denmark, Tom, actually the integration is really good in denmark (aks the immigrants), but off course we have problems - but your "inflamatory speech" sounds like you got it wrong!

When the discussion comes to Canada and the US in denmark, its always because You achieved to attract the people who likes to contribute, who has education, while the danish immigrants are harder to integrate! I dont say that the danish state cant do better on integration - but your version is totally wrong - I dont know where you got that idea (from som islamist site, or?!)
The danes are a real peaceful people, and the reason 12% voted for the popular people parti (the right wing), was because nobody had adressed the rising problems with integration - so they scored some cheap points. But dont you think that we allow our society to be split up - a lot of people are using this unfortunate incident to promotye their own little agenda, spreading misinformation; some of it reached you, I guess!

And no, theres is less or no problems with other immigrants in denmark - and thats not to say that the muslims are not welcome - they are MOST CERTAINLY welcome - if they integrate, follow the law of the land, and work (both sexes, like we do in the west. I think almost any women of the older generation is on welfare)

So stop this meassuring - I think we can learn from you, but I also think you can learn from us! Different problems, different meassures - understand!?


Muhammad Mosa - 2/18/2006

Yes, I know that 90% of you live like pigs


Tom Tolbene - 2/18/2006

Our "time of Muslim anger" will never come, because we know how to integrate all of our citizens, not just those that fit our definition of "White Christian"

You're right, Canada is much larger than Denmark, meaning we should have more chances for violent anger between traditional Canadians and immigrants, but so far we have had less problems than Europe, especially Denmark.

Why is that?


Tom Tolbene - 2/18/2006

It seems that I haven't been able to communicate my opinion (and that of many Canadians): IF YOU HAD FOLLOWED CANADIAN PRINCIPLES OF IMMIGRATION, YOU WOULD HAVE NEVER HAD THIS PROBLEM TO BEGIN WITH.

As for how to correct the problem now, I would suggest:

1. Fire the editor
2. Nation-wide gathering to promote Muslim-West relations
3. PM must not apologize as he has been: "i apologize...but free speech.."; instead he must state flat-out that he apologizes, no "ifs", "buts"
4. Remove troops from Afghan and Iraq
5. Some celebratory event to promote Islam integration in Danish society...it could be anything, like a sporting event or concert
6. Study Canadian immigration, and learn


infidel - 2/18/2006

Canada can fit hundreds of denmarks into its territory. Canada is a new country; Denmark is a ethnically homogenous white christian country.
These are two GLARING differences, but to get to the theme at hand:

"Immigrant"s?

Are the Europeans being provoked into such mass antipathy, by the NON-MOSLEM chinese, indian, vietnamese, african, south american, caribbean and arab immigrants who are ALSO living in Europe without provoking their generous hosts?

Considering that the movement towards Sharia was stopped in canada by the petitions brave moslem women, one should'nt be surprised at such glib, supercilious, emanations from allegedly "tolerant" canadians. Your time will come, when the moslem populations reach a critical mass. Then we'll see whos being "tolerant". ;)


Pomerol - 2/18/2006

I was actually corrected by my social study teacher as a kid while living in The States. I told her that Denmark surely wasn't the capital in Holland. But she refused to accept my knowledge. Couple days later she apologized. I won't ever forget it. But nice to hear you have figured out the difference. And keep on buying that danish chees.


infidel - 2/18/2006

Total Danish export to moslem countries: $1.6 billion out of $78billion. Impact to Denmark's GDP will be at around 0.5%.
But there are a couple of good things that are coming out of this
1. The boycott is backfiring and more Americans are now buying Danish products. Anecdotal evidence: I was trying to find Danish havarti cheese at a store here in northern virginia and the section was almost empty. All the danish cheese was gone.
2. Americans are finally realizing that "Danish" and "Dutch" don't mean the same. Two different countries. yes. ;) ;)


Pomerol - 2/18/2006

"This value prevents us from using "freedom of speech" as an excuse for inflammatory speech and behavior."

You have fallen below my waistline. Sorry buddy - Communication meltdown I have asked you an upright question you seem to be ignoring!


Tom Tolbene - 2/18/2006

I have read many posts, and have come to the conclusion that many Americans and other Europeans are blindly supporting the Danish. The Canadians, at least on these posts, seem to value sense and reason rather than irrational inflammatory behavior towards people of a particular religion or ethnic background.

I really think you must learn from Canadian immigration, or more importantly, Canadian attitude toward immigration. We do not feel threatened by immigrants, instead, we value their contribution. This value prevents us from using "freedom of speech" as an excuse for inflammatory speech and behavior.


Guf - 2/18/2006

You can't - that's why good muslims read books and evolve as religious people, and bad muslims read Al Qaeda literature, burn kill and threat!
We must differ between religious humans, and religious crazies!


Bus - 2/18/2006

Pomerol - dont think too much about it, or you will go grap a gun and do something silly...we are civilized here, in the face terror and hipocrasy.
If the muslim world wants to show distance to terror - they've succeded in doing the reverse!


Bus - 2/18/2006

Well, the arab world isn't exactly a place for peace and relaction is it?:
Maybe an arsenist congress, or a jew defamation-contest, or a build-a-bomb for children (as opposed to "Build-a-bear")... Sorry for being this sarchastic - I will fire the editor emidiately and denounce my right to breathe!


Slater - 2/18/2006

Nice to know I'm not all alone ;)

But it does seem we'll have to start our own parties to get some leftism with an attitude.


Pomerol - 2/18/2006

Good for you. Since you didn't know of these products, I guess your personal boycott won't do you much good. Status Quo

If anything it will take some of your precious time - In the mean while I will go to work an pay my taxes in order for the Danish Government to support Muslims in the need of help! Think about that for a moment....


Danny Sukada - 2/18/2006

It is good that I obtained a complete list of Danish product from the site "Buy Danish Product". That way I know exactly which goods I have to avoid buying.


Mark Linham - 2/18/2006

Hear! Hear! Slater,

Looks like you and I were cut from the same philosophical cloth, as it were.

What you've said here also describes me to a "T": extreme left (libertarian-socialist, or anarchist). And I can't stand the kind of morally-cowardly, ersatz "leftist" politicos who want to roll over on their backs to be kicked, or to facilitate their fellow countrymen being kicked. We have plenty like that here in the United States, too. I sometimes find myself cursing them even more than I curse the right-wingers for the advance of tyranny. I believe if it weren't for these phony "liberals", fascism (of whatever kind) wouldn't stand a chance!

Your implication is correct: being liberal does NOT mean you have to be weak and stupid.

Bless you, brother!


Slater - 2/18/2006

Very sad indeed.


Slater - 2/18/2006

But why are you talking about fundamentalist Christians?

Do you have some crazy notion that all who are not Muslim must be Catholics?


Slater - 2/18/2006

That's great. Apparently not all Canadians are as retarded as a certain Canadian on this board.


Slater - 2/18/2006

Well I'm a leftist. An extreme leftist even. But I am finding it very hard to support the left-wing parties in Denmark after this conflict.

Why is it that you apparently cannot be left-wing without also asking to be manipulated, used and pushed in the background in our own country by rabid religious fundamentalists and west-hating foreigners?

I think we should do what we can to help the persecuted and poor, but the LEAST I would expect from those people we help, is a little bit of gratitude.
When someone who hasn't even received Danish citizenship yet rapes Danish girls because they don't have veils, or travel around the ME spreading lies and inciting riots against Denmark, KICK THEM THE FUCK OUT before then can say "death to alle Danes".


I really don't get it. Where is it written that being a socialist means you have to be weak and stupid and let everyone do to you what they want?

I'm gonna be at my biggest dilemma yet at next election. I can't vote for these pussies, but I sure won't vote right either.

Shit.


Mark Linham - 2/18/2006

Ersatz leftists:

It is not evil to confidently, and boldly, stand for principles. The only political evil is the initiation - or the threat of initiation - of force.

You do not escape, or defeat, an evil of this kind by compromising with it - as in "apologizing" to Muslims who are demanding the suppression of dissent. You merely embolden that evil by failing to take an intransigent stand.

There is a brand of liberalism (not conservatism) that contains within it the warning: "Don't Tread On Me" (one of our - the U.S.'s - revolutionary flags). We will not tolerate being "pushed around". Nor do we, a growing and influential subgroup of westerners, stand for such treatment of others. About this essential matter there can be no compromises, or apologies!

It is the instigators of violence (for whatever the reason), not artists who've drawn a cartoon (however offensive), that owe the rest of the world an apology.


Slater - 2/18/2006

Screw your God. He's against democracy as well.


Slater - 2/18/2006

Have you heard? There's a great new invention out. It's called A LIFE!
Why don't you go get one?


Slater - 2/18/2006

You are still proving that Canadians are so much more stupid than Danes.

Now, let me try and cut this out for you, so even a retarded Canadian can understand:

IT WAS NOT A MISTAKE.

Do you get it? Now, YOU might think it was wrong, but that's your right. There are Danes who think the same thing, that that is their right. But it does NOT chance the fact that the newspaper had the right to do it.

Your right to say it was wrong is covered by the same laws of free speech as JP's right to publish the cartoons.

Do you get why you are not making sense?


Pomerol - 2/18/2006

"Pomerol, your questions has a deep root in the age of enlightenment"

I realize that my question has deep roots going back to the ages of enlightenment. But still, I wonder how at least Muslims holding academic degrees can believe in these statements and at the same time write books about postmodern theory - social constructionism ect.
It really doesn't make sense to me. How are you able to handle these two opposite worlds without getting very dizzy? No academic muslim or non-muslim can be taken serious if they start preaching about an ontological objective reality.
Only Imams can do that kind of preaching..


Pomerol - 2/18/2006

I can't sign either. The leftist might as well start handing out free yellowstars and categorized the Danes in the good and the evil. I'm sure glad not that many Danes support "another Denmark".

I my opinion "another denmark" will in fact contribute to even more misunderstanding between Danes and Muslims. Since some Muslims will probably consider me and the rest of the Danes (the majority) an enemy, due to the fact we wouldn't ever dream of signing it.

Leftist have good hearts, but sometimes they do not take into consideration that their willingness and methods used to promote peace might be dangering the peace they are fighting for themselves.


Mark Linham - 2/18/2006

You're right, Hasan.

We must defeat all irrationalists and deniers of human rights, be they Christian, Muslim, Jews, Hindus, or ersatz secularists.

Our quarrel is not with Islam, but with Islam, Christian fundamentalism - or anything else - that is used as a vehicle for threatening life and liberty.


Mark Linham - 2/18/2006

You bastards are about to eliminate that last remaining thread of liberal restraint in the West. When that happens, you won't have hundreds of years. Your time will then be up.

Have a good day.


Pomerol - 2/18/2006

Is it possible for moderate muslims the end the boycott if you wanted to, or would you be considered untrue to Allah if you showed any sign of understanding directed towards the west. I got the feeling that it is not possible for you to show your opinion publicly without having to face serious disciplinary consequences by the Ummah. Please correct me, if I'm wrong in this assumption.

Secondly won't the boycott backfire bigtime. I used to travel to the ME myself quite a lot. But this summer I won't be contributing to the prosperity of you countries by making my yearly summervisit. I fear that might be too dangerous at the moment. How about the rest of you infidels -where are your sails set for this upcoming summer. Are you going to visit muslim countries or will you be following me and probably many others who find it more safe to stay within the boundaries of the western countries?


Holly - 2/18/2006

I don't really care whats in the quoran and i dont want to explore islam simply because i don't care about it..

Do you want to explore Denmark and the Danish people and our way of living???????


Mark Linham - 2/18/2006

European,

Postscript: It may be eventually, or at any point in the interim, that it may not be possible to protect all Muslim moderates.

The right to self defense is also absolute and non-negotiable, as well: Any deaths of moderates resulting from our war (and currently, it is indeed a war) against Islamicist terrorism are the fault of Islamicist extremists. The (semi) free (Western) world, America, Europe, etc, is not to blame for those casualties. In the act of self defense one is not morally obligated to hold one's fire because an innocent may be harmed. Any loss of life in a war is only the fault of the aggressor. And the aggressor always is the side that blatantly and utterly denies human rights, not the side that either fully, or partially, recognizes and protects those rights.

As I suggested earlier, in order for the moderates to be safe, they must do whatever it takes to remove themselves from the environs of Islamic totalitarianism. But this would be true anyway because of the manifestly anti-life nature of totalitarian/terrorist regimes.


sdfhg - 2/18/2006

But do you see a worlwide rampaging cult, murdering and burning everything in its way?


Mr. Bripspitch - 2/18/2006


Muslims in europe in the middle ages, were enlightened: they had a great ability to suck up knowledge from the countries they entered, blending it with their own, and valued it highly (building libaries and so on)

The enlightenment period is later, and the most importent period for the western world, and how we live today!
We are living in different worlds, and I think in many ways, that its because islam has not evolved into modernity - and we now witness a primitivism (sharia, lack of human/womens rights, and so forth)
Every religion becomes angry when mocked - but ONLY islam starts burning and killing, in order to tell the world that islam is a peacefull religion... its not good!


M.T. - 2/18/2006

I totally agree Holly!
But I understand that the leftist in denmark does this - this is what they always do, and I think its ok (a little scared, but ok!)

We are a broad kind of people - but I think that NO ONE in danmark will give up on free speech! This is the way we are, and have been ever - sarchastic and direct to the point - we are not used to this religious dogmas - and we will never tolerate it; but we know the concept of respect!


hasan - 2/18/2006

There are many ignorant minds wandering on this board who have developed this notion that Islam is the only religion with extremists. I'm putting forward a few examples of some prominent christians found in the US today:

====================================


Family Research Council
[W]hile it is true that the United States of America was founded on the sacred principle of religious freedom for all, that liberty was never intended to exalt other religions to the level that Christianity holds in our country's heritage. Our Founders expected that Christianity -- and no other religion -- would receive support from the government as long as that support did not violate peoples' consciences and their right to worship. They would have found utterly incredible the idea that all religions, including paganism, be treated with equal deference. As for our Hindu priest friend, the United States is a nation that has historically honored the one true God. Woe be to us on that day when we relegate him to being merely one among countless other deities in the pantheon of theologies.


Culture Facts newsletter 9/21/2000 (commenting on a Hindu priest giving the opening prayer in the House of Representatives)

Pat Buchanan
Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free.

Speech to the Christian Coalition, September 1993




David Chilton
The god of Judaism is the devil. The Jew will not be recognized by God as one of His chosen people until he abandons his demonic religion and returns to the faith of his fathers - the faith which embraces Jesus Christ and His Gospel.

The Days of Vengeance: An Exposition of the Book of Revelation (1984)


Ann Coulter
We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war.

Newspaper Column, September 2001.


Tom DeLay
Ladies and gentlemen, Christianity offers the only viable, reasonable, definitive answer to the questions of 'Where did I come from?' 'Why am I here?' 'Where am I going?' 'Does life have any meaningful purpose?' Only Christianity offers a way to understand that physical and moral border. Only Christianity offers a comprehensive worldview that covers all areas of life and thought, every aspect of creation. Only Christianity offers a way to live in response to the realities that we find in this world -- only Christianity.

House Majority Whip Tom DeLay (R-Tex.) at the First Baptist Church of Pearland, Texas, on April 12, 2002

Gary DeMar
The long term goal [is] the execution of abortionists and parents who hire them. If we argue that abortion is murder, then we must call for the death penalty.

Ruler of the Nations (1987)

Jerry Falwell
I do not believe the homosexual community deserves minority status. One's misbehavior does not qualify him or her for minority status. Blacks, Hispanics, women, etc. are God-ordained minorities who do indeed deserve minority status.

USA Today. Quoted from: The Religious Freedom Coalition.

Jerry Falwell
If we are going to save America and evangelize the world, we cannot accommodate secular philosophies that are diametrically opposed to Christian truth.

"Moral Majority Report," September, 1984.

Jerry Falwell
The decline in American pride, patriotism, and piety can be directly attributed to the extensive reading of so-called 'science fiction' by our young people. This poisonous rot about creatures not of God's making, societies of 'aliens' without a good Christian among them, and raw sex between unhuman beings with three heads and God alone knows what sort of reproductive apparatus keeps our young people from realizing the true will of God.

"Can Our Young People Find God in the Pages of Trashy Magazines? No, Of Course Not!" Reader's Digest, Aug. 1985: p142-157.


Jeff Fugate
If you don't want a Christian nation, then go to one of the many nations that are heathen already, rather than perverting ours.
You're welcome to come, but leave your religions, your bibles, all your other things back where you came from.
Islam and America are opposites. They hate us. They want to kill us. I'm not anti-Jewish or anti-Catholic. I'm anti-Islam because that religion right there is anti-American.

Jeff Fugate, pastor of Clays Mill Road Baptist Church, Lexington, KY, July 3, 2002.

Jerry Falwell
Most American children do not know that this is a Christian nation... [O]ur Constitution won't work in Russia, won't work in Haiti, won't work in Iraq. It only works where the people believe in the Christ of the Bible. The United States of America.

"Sunday Live with Jerry Falwell," July 23, 1995

D. James Kennedy
This is our land. This is our world. This is our heritage, and with God's help, we shall reclaim this nation for Jesus Christ. And no power on earth can stop us.

Character & Destiny: A Nation in Search of Its Soul (1994)

Francis J. Lally
The Church doesn't believe in book-burning, but it believes in restricting the use of dangerous books among those whose minds are unprepared for them.

Francis J. Lally, American Roman Catholic Monsignor. Interview with Mike Wallace, 1958.

Francis J. Lally
The Church has through the centuries, understood that ideas are really more dangerous than other weapons. Their use should be restricted.

Francis J. Lally, American Roman Catholic Monsignor. Interview with Mike Wallace, 1958.

Joseph Morecraft
Nobody has the right to worship on this planet any other God than Jehovah. And therefore the state does not have the responsibility to defend anybody's pseudo-right to worship an idol.

Rev. Joseph Morecraft, Chalcedon Presbyterian Church, "Biblical Role of Civil Government" speech delivered on August 21, 1993 at the Biblical Worldview and Christian Education Conference.

Gary North
So let us be blunt about it: We must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will be get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God.
"The Intellectual Schizophrenia of the New Christian Right" in Christianity and Civilization: The Failure of the American Baptist Culture, No. 1 (Spring, 1982), p. 25.

Gary North
This is God's world, not Satan's. Christians are the lawful heirs, not non-Christians.

Political Polytheism: The Myth of Pluralism (1989)


Gary North
The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant - baptism and holy communion - must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel.
Political Polytheism: The Myth of Pluralism (1989)

Bailey Smith
With all due respect to those dear people, my friend, God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew.
Bailey Smith, a founder of Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition, speaking during a Religious Roundtable briefing in Dallas, Texas, on June 26, 1994

Jimmy Swaggart
The Media is ruled by Satan. But yet I wonder if many Christians fully understand that. Also, will they believe what the Media says, considering that its aim is to steal, kill, and destroy?

The Evangelist, January 1988

Randall Terry
What this is coming down to is who runs the country. It's us against them. It's the good guys versus the bad guys. It's the God-fearing people against the pagans, and some of the pagans are going to church.


Speech in Jackson, Mississippi, April 1992


Randall Terry
I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism.

The News Sentinel, (Fort Wayne, Indiana), August 16, 1993.

Randall Terry
The next step, if at all humanly possible (and in 90% of the cases it is), it is to get our children out of the humanistic, brianwashing institution called `public education.' Frankly, it is a mixture of insanity and irresponsibility to turn our children over to our adversaries and their curriculum in a God-less education system (i.e., a system that teaches history and science without God).

Why Does a Nice Guy Like Me Keep Getting Thrown in Jail? (1993)


Randall Terry
America is under the judgment of God. And if we are ever going to rebuild this country, it must be under God's law. Our goal must be simple: We must have a Christian nation built on God's law, on the Ten Commandments. No apologies.

Speech to "Cities of Refuge" campaign, Willoughby Hills, Ohio, July, 1993.


Randall Terry
When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we'll execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed.

Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue. Speech before the U.S. Taxpayers Alliance on doctors who perform abortions. August 8, 1995


M.T. - 2/18/2006

"TIM SEBASTIAN
A lady right at the back, you got your hand up first. Your question, please.
AUDIENCE Q (F)
This question is for the panel speaking against this motion. What lesson would the journalists learn from the recent Danish publications of the cartoon pictures of the Prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him? What can we gain from that?
TIM SEBASTIAN
This is about the cartoons which appeared in Danish and Norwegian magazines for which they have apologised, which were said to be anti-Islamic.
ABDALLAH SCHLEIFER
Yes, exactly. Number one, they've apologised. Number two, it isn't journalism. Those are cartoons and it's sensationalism. Number three, the protests against it have been widely reported in the Western and American media, including the Danish press, and number four, I have seen over the last five years - and I say this as a Muslim and embarrassed - some of the nastiest comments about Christianity and Judaism appearing in the Arab press, and nobody apologises for it, I mean, really scandalous stuff. I apologise as a Muslim.
TIM SEBASTIAN
What do you think it says? You asked the question.
AUDIENCE Q (F)
It's still part of journalism to sell a newspaper and an apology doesn't say anything, it's not there, it's in the internet, it's on newspapers, I mean, it doesn't really stop the issue, just an apology.
TIM SEBASTIAN
What more would you ask them to do?
AUDIENCE Q (F)
To stop the newspaper totally.
TIM SEBASTIAN
Ban it, on the strength of that? Mona Eltahawy, you wanted to say ...
MONA ELTAHAWY
Yes, I actually wrote about this issue and I wanted to give lessons to the Arab world in how to react to a story like this and what to do, but the newspaper I write for wouldn't run that column. I resent it, because I tried to answer that question that you ask. So my column ended up being run in The Daily Star and an Egyptian independent daily, which I hold as positive examples for the Arab world, and the lesson I would draw from that is that there really is freedom of expression in Denmark, because there's a difference between a cartoon and incitement to violence. In Denmark just a month or a few weeks before those cartoons were published, a Danish radio station actually incited violence against Muslims. It said, 'We must exterminate Muslims,' and the Danish government acted responsibly. It withdrew the licence for three months from that station. Those cartoons, have you seen those cartoons?
AUDIENCE Q (F)
Yes.
MONA ELTAHAWY
Some of those cartoons were self-critical, the Danes were making fun of themselves. Now, this is the lesson I would draw for the Arab world: we need to be self-critical. We need to sit down and say, 'If we're offended by something, how do we respond?' The Danish Prime Minister wouldn't intervene because as he said, 'We have freedom of expression in our country,' and they do. When we take to task our government for the anti-Semitism in the state-controlled newspapers, and we know they're state-controlled, the governments in the Arab world try to make the same argument as the Danish Prime Minister made, and it's a false argument. They control those newspapers and they use them as mouth-pieces, so I would say that we need to appreciate freedom of expression and create our own modes of expressions."

Read more:

http://www.thedohadebates.com/output/Page52.asp


Mark Linham - 2/18/2006

European,

Well said.

I agree with you that the basic political values you listed are non-negotiable: free speech, free religion, equal rights, womens rights, childrens rights. These values should be considered an absolute bare minimum requirement for the peaceful coexistence of disparate cultures.

To flesh this concept out further:

*Individual* rights is the prime political value, for it is the only thing that makes values, including collective, or commonweal values, possible. Therefore cultures, including our own cultures here in the West, must be subordinated to this principle.

You're also right in that there can be no compromise for the particular brand of intolerance practiced by Islamic militants. When persons disagree with one another, and one of them escalates from verbal or academic discourse to physical violence, or threats of physical violence, (s)he removes him/herself from any civil consideration whatsoever, and becomes a criminal who should then be treated accordingly.

As for how we crush the Islamicist threat without harming moderate Muslims.. That would be a whole lot easier if those moderates would/could get the hell away from the violent nutcases.


Holly - 2/18/2006

I simply cannot sign it because then i will sign a give up note on my freedom of speach!
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is another "another" Denmark that will fight for one of the most important thing in our society FREEDOM OF SPEACH even though it might offend some people!!!
Get over it those who were offended by the cartoons and move on...


Holly - 2/18/2006

Send your support...

http://216.94.85.76/ccd/email.asp


Mark Linham - 2/18/2006

Mr. Bripspitch,

Actually, from what I've been able to gather thus far, the Arab, that is to say what is predominantly the Muslim, world once was a zone of relative enlightenment. I believe, for example, that some of the numeral system(s) we use here in the West, originated there. I'm sorry, I really do need to research this matter further, myself, but this is an interesting bit of our world's history to explore.

That being said, the middle east, and especially the Arab and/or Muslim dominated areas of our world have degenerated to the point where they are now zones of unconscionable stupidity and barbarism. I, personally, blame at least some of this development on the Christian crusades of the middle ages. And, having been raised a Christian (now an Atheist), I know of that religion's barbarism, too.


Mr. Bripspitch - 2/18/2006

Pomerol, your questions has a deep root in the age of enlightenment; the period of turning away from religion and superstition, towards the sciences... Arab world havent had this period, and does thus suffer from religious evolvement and contributions to the ever growing knowledge base of the human race!
When the muslim world is faced with dire threats, as cartoons, they can then only react by using the cerebellar side of their brain - logic is not an issue here, its about wrath; feeling it, and letting it go - killing people!

Hope this is enough answer for you?!


- 2/18/2006

Cut that crap - or leave this post!


Bent - 2/18/2006

Listen - NO dane spells as bad as this "Sune"... I think its Muhammad doing some undercoverwork; looks like his agitation!


Mark Linham - 2/18/2006

That's sad.


Mark Linham - 2/18/2006

Why don't you wear ladies' underwear on your head?

You really should consider wearing ladies underwear on your head. Please consider it. You should consider it because I say so!


Mark Linham - 2/18/2006

Go ahead, insult Jesus if you like.. or any other thing of value to us.

You've already insulted constitutional democracy and the principle of human individual rights by refusing to condemn and not be a part of "fatwas", violent demonstrations, and terror threats against people who are only speaking their minds.

You've already insulted the best, most important value we have. So go ahead, insult what you like. And we will continue to do the same.

Fuck you.


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/18/2006

Since you think MSNBC is an extermist media group, here are a few hundreds for you to review:

http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=navclient&;ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-17,GGLD:en&q=Nasrallah%20%22shut%20up%22&sa=N&tab=wn


Sune Jensen - 2/17/2006

No

33 years old


Pomerol - 2/17/2006

"Just remember that your mistakes are hurting the West."

Have you not been following the events the last couple of weeks? Newspapers around Europe have re-printed these cartoon to support freedom of speech. Have you totally forgotten the we have a free press. How do you expect a PM to apologies for a Press he doesn't control? I'm not sure whether or not you are aware of it but Jyllandsposten has written an apology to the muslim countries. They have not given an apology for printing the cartoons, but they have given an apology for hurting the muslims feelings.

"Maybe Canadians are just smarter than the Danish, or just classier, or both!"

This statement tells me the world about your views. I believe some caucasian males had similar idears in relation to the white/black conflict in the United States....

What I guess you haven't noticed is that not only Denmark supports a free press, but so does the rest of Europe and The United States. I can't believe you as a democrat (well at least I assume you support democracy)can seriously go against one of the cornerstones in Democracy itself??
What do you want Denmark and the rest of Europe to do in order to solve this conflict? And before you answer -I can tell you one thing for sure. This conflict won't be solved by giving another apology. Many muslims want regulation of the laws in Europe to prevent any critic of religion. But maybe you think that would be a great way to solve this problem - by setting forth boundaries for what the free press can and can't publish?




Sune Jensen - 2/17/2006

Another Denmark

www.anotherdenmark.org


Pomerol - 2/17/2006

I keep on being confronted with this very point.

"Islam is the voice of God"

"Islam is sent from God"

"My views are in fact not my views. They are a representation of the one and only Allah"

I do not want to discuss whether or not Islam is in fact the voice of God. But I'm having huge troubles about Muslims arguing that they are the voices of God. I mean even if Islam is God, you will have to percieve his voice as any other subject? How is it possible to go around ones own perception of God, and recieve his message without being influenced by ones own mind. By arguing that you speak on behalf of God - well in my eyes you might as well tell me that you are God himself. I'm not writing this to insult you - I'm just really curious of how you get around your own perspective and "recieve" the one and only truth - the one and only Allah.


Abdul Mohammed - 2/17/2006

AIIIEUDDDEEEEEEEEEE Allah steenks mydonkeybuutycallmeeeeee


Tom Tolbene - 2/17/2006

"It's not the first time around we have heard upset Canadians on this board. Is the "battle" about Hans Ø still influencing your views that much, when your heads turn towards Denmark? Tell you the truth - we do not hold it against you in Denmark. And we aren't upset about that dispute anymore."

Well, many here in Canada believe that the Danish are WRONG, not because of past issues (in which you were wrong also), but because of your inherent biases against minorities. Unfortunately for us, your actions just add fuel to the fire of Muslims against the West, Canada included. I can't speak for all Canadians, but all of those I have spoken to believe that your PM handled this horribly, and that your citizens' attempt to defend "free speech" was insulting to this valuable right of the West.

Maybe Canadians are just smarter than the Danish, or just classier, or both!

Just remember that your mistakes are hurting the West.


Mark Linham - 2/17/2006

Hear! Hear! Alan,

I'm a U.S. citizen too who loves our country's political institutions, but not the current regime. I want Bush out in 2008.

I concur with your other point wholeheartedly also. No apologies to these Muslim idiots and thugs. It's perpetrators of mindless violence that should apologise, not their intended victims, always, in this and in every such case!

I haven't bought Danish in the past, but you can be damn sure that Denmark now has at least one (many more actually) new customer.


Slater - 2/17/2006

Well, the peacefulness of Islam isn't really defined by translations and words, but by the ACTIONS of those who follow it.

And I can tell you right now, there's not much peace about it. Whether you like that or not.


Slater - 2/17/2006

You've said that already. Now can it!

I've got a feeling you're not really Muslim (or ex-Muslim) anyway, but just another troll trying to escalate this.


Slater - 2/17/2006

What are you, 10 years old?

Get a grip.


Slater - 2/17/2006

What are you rambling about? I don't much like our PM, but I think he handled this particular situation rather well. As cannot be said for the social-democrats.

But Anders Fogh is probably the most globalized man you'll find in Denmark. He loves globalization.

And what is your problem with Carsten Juste? You just say we should find a better man for the job. Well how about a reason?

And finally - apartheid? What the FUCK? Denmark is NOTHING like that. Do you even know what's going on around you?


Please, throw in some arguments. An unbased opinion is worthless in a debate.


Pomerol - 2/17/2006

Sune you are really way off. I wonder why you are doing this. Your statements aren't even close to some kind of truth, and you are certainly not contributing in putting an end to all the incorrect nonsense that has been flowing around about Denmark in muslims countries the last couple of weeks. As I see it at the moment you are working against your own country - what in the world are you thinking of - do you really like this conflict some much, you will do anything to keep it going? I must say I'm shocked...


Abdul Mohammed - 2/17/2006

I worship Allah I dont worhip Alla anymore coz the prophet Mohammed staerted sucking animals dicks0)


Abdul Mohammed - 2/17/2006

I worship Allah I dont worhip Alla anymore coz the prophet Mohammed staerted sucking animals dicks0)


Abdul Mohammed - 2/17/2006

I worship Allah I dont worhip Alla anymore coz the prophet Mohammed staerted sucking animals dicks0)


Abdul Mohammed - 2/17/2006

I worship Allah I dont worhip Alla anymore coz the prophet Mohammed staerted sucking animals dicks0)


Sune Jensen - 2/17/2006

I am sorry that my PM is a bastard and a stupid politician. Why has we elected this liar and non-globalized man for PM - Please Mr. Rasmussen -take your clothes and walk set a date for a new palementary election.

Jyllands-Posten (JP) CEO Juste stop now and find a better man to do your work

Is Denmark really a part of etnic apartheid like South Africa - I do not like it !!! Truly


Pomerol - 2/17/2006

"By the way, any update on the "Buy Danish" campaign."

I read about the campaign a couple days ago - it's working! Thank you very much my friend. If you really want to spend money - don't forget the danish designers - they are famous worldwide for their creations. But it's pretty expensive...

-
An apology for the apology. We are touching new grounds here and my imagination is having a hard time catching up...


Pomerol - 2/17/2006

"Imagin someone took a cross with Jesus on it and put it under his feet.
me as muslim will refuse such a thing, and I may fight for that, because Jesus is prophet send by God. a greate Symbol to people. he is not like normal people, he is someone choosen by allah -god-."

Well tell you what Muhammed just yesterday Muslims of Iran burned the Christian Cross. No need to use our imagination - it has already been done in real life....


Sune Jensen - 2/17/2006

DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT DO NOT BUY DANISH PRODUCT


Pomerol - 2/17/2006

"Why should the entire West (including USA), pay for your stupid cartoons? I do not want Canadians harmed because of your degrading diplomacy."

It's not the first time around we have heard upset Canadians on this board. Is the "battle" about Hans Ø still influencing your views that much, when your heads turn towards Denmark? Tell you the truth - we do not hold it against you in Denmark. And we aren't upset about that dispute anymore.

Every single European country will defend Democracy and you should do the same my friend. The Italian Embassy was burned not only because it was the only embassy muslims could get their hands on, but also because an Italian minister showed up in a shirt with a muhammed cartoon on this week. Italians are probably the most emotional people of Europe - they are warm and pleasant - but I wouldn't advise anyone to mess with an Italian. They have hearts like lions and they are not to be disturbed. Except for the French I think burning the Italian Embassy is the worst of all nightmares. This surely won't be a move towards peace - and that is really sad I think.


Sune Jensen - 2/17/2006

Maybe Denmark is too small on the investment market


Slater - 2/17/2006

Heh. And you ;)


Slater - 2/17/2006

So... what you are saying is that you are very peaceful, and if we don't agree you'll start World War 3 ?

You are really not very intelligent, are you?


Reminds me of Danish comedian 'Anden':
"Stop violence or we'll beat you up!"


Gary - 2/17/2006

Quote: "I constantly apologize for my govnt's behavior (i can't wait until 2008), not because I am ashamed of America, but because I am willing to admit we have some serious faults.."

This is correct. We say good bye to Mr Bush in 2008. And, as a democratic nation, we can gather in public places and denounce our president without fear of our government. Try this in Iran right now with the mad man Ahmadinejad in control. God bless democracy and God bless Denmark.


Slater - 2/17/2006

Right, so it's OUR fault that the embassies have been burned?

We should just buckle under to their demands and kiss their feet? And you don't think they will just demand something even sillier?

You're a fucking pathetic little coward. That this has even come this far, is because of people like you. Cowards who would rather say they are sorry than stand up for what they believe. Non-violently of course.


Slater - 2/17/2006

"The Danish, and all of Europe, should beg for forgiveness. This craziness is their fault. All we Muslims want is a REAL apology."

An apology for WHAT?
Did you miss the point here? WE HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING! One newspaper has, and that was their right. But I personally, as well as 99,9999999% of the Danish and European populations had NOTHING to do with this. Why should we apologize?


M.T. - 2/17/2006

Oh Muhammad: try this guy, and follow his links, and maybe you'll know that a lot of egyptians doesn't support you:

http://egyptiansandmonkey.blogspot.com


Th.mas - 2/17/2006


Hi Allan
Could not agree more, unfortunately the Islamists have the big say in the Muslim part of the world. Most of what they say and do make no sense at all.
The cartoons are obviously only a blind for their real agenda, rampage against Democracy and our 4 freedoms!
Fascism, this time in the name of Islam, is showing it's ugly head once again...

Your question
'any update on the "Buy Danish" campaign / if the damage has been reversed /I am inclined to say that the push to "buy Danish" has been stopped'
From what I have heard, it has been a great encouragement for Denmark with the Buy Danish Campaign, and especially sales in US and Germany should be helpful. You can always see www.jp.dk (also in english) for the latest.
So please everybody keep the Buy Danish spirit going. That will show the Danes that ordinary people are supporting them, even though the US medias (CCN, NBC, Fox, major papers) have been lousy in their showing, to say the least. It seems, to some, dollars are more important than to make a stand for freedom of speech ....
Go on Buy Danish - we thank you!


M.T. - 2/17/2006

I think most of the world - a lot of muslims included, think that whats going on with the riots is totally unacceptable!


Mark Linham - 2/17/2006

Muhammad Mosa:

I've also read that the part of the world now largely Muslim was a more civil place in the Middle Ages. There apparently has been a reversal of this situation. And, incidentally, I blame the Christian Crusades for much of this.

I'll say to you something similar to what I say to many Christians:

You will not have a Muslim world where you're "peaceful and kind" to others. This is simply not possible. Because if you truly meant to be peaceful and kind, that would necessarily include such things as the recognition of the rights of others to disagree with you and with your religion - including that which you consider "blasphemy", the use of persuasion and voluntary cooperation rather than force as the prime rule of conduct in human affairs, the recognition of the rights of women, the separation of mosque and state, etc.

Give it up, you won't manifest those values honestly characterizable as kindness, unless you regard others at least as equals. That is what this requires. Nothing less will do.


Muhammad Mosa - 2/17/2006

You are funny.
All people her have the same mind.
but I beileve there people like Cat Stevens "Yusuf Islam" if you know him.


Gary - 2/17/2006

Quote: "Specially they are instulting our prophet, a man of peace, a man of honor. all his history says that. You didn't read Quran. you are just droping your words.. go go..
live in peace.. and stop speaking null"

Excuse me, but I and others here have read the Koran. Do you want me to quote verses from YOUR holy book? Do you need a history lesson as has been provided in earlier posts here? Speaking null indeed!


Pomerol - 2/17/2006

Hey, why don't you all explore what Islam, and who is the prophet Muhammad -peace be upon him-?!

What is your point. I can only understand your views if I convert to Islam. We can't have a conversation without me being an expert in Islam. Well I don't mind reading about Islam and I have read quite a lot - but this time around you are the one who must do the reading, if you ever want to unite with the european community, you must learn to live and breath democracy. I can't do this work for you.


Muhammad Mosa - 2/17/2006

there is a famouse Quote we used to say in Egypt the translation is:
"Teach the stupid, he wake up in the morning forgetting what you teached him!"
"3alem fi el metbalem yesba7 nasi"
Sleep Sleep, and go with your toughts..


Muhammad Mosa - 2/17/2006

Brother hassan, I don't know him, but he is my brother, isn't that amazing. We feel that we ar brothers, even if he is not muslim, as long as we are not insulting each other live toghether in peace.
Of course the cartoons may drived him to this.. and again, you don't understand what such cartoons means.
Specially they are instulting our prophet, a man of peace, a man of honor. all his history says that. You didn't read Quran. you are just droping your words.. go go..
live in peace.. and stop speaking null


Bent - 2/17/2006

Muhammad - stop refering to some abstract point of total power - I'm not religious, and think you sound a bit like a madman!
Yes, I went to see some of the sites, I used to like the middle east - but now i'm disgusted about it: thinking denmark has supported the arab world for so many years, pouring in a lot of money - and this is what you get?


Pomerol - 2/17/2006

"And the Question is, Do you know what is Islam, What Islam contains, What Quran hold in its holly words?! I think you should try to read about that. And "Research and investigate for yourself as an intelligent person"

I get really tired hearing this statement over and over again. Study Islam and you will understand. Well the Quran is sold out in Denmark, not because we would ever convert, but because we are willing to understand your views. But how much do you know about democracy -maybe you should be reading books on that subject cause it seems as though the concept called democracy is a blindspot for many muslims.


Pomerol - 2/17/2006

"And the Question is, Do you know what is Islam, What Islam contains, What Quran hold in its holly words?! I think you should try to read about that. And "Research and investigate for yourself as an intelligent person"

I'm really tires heard this statement. Study Islam and you will understand. Well the Quran is sold out in Denmark, not because we would ever convert, but because we are willing to understand your views. But how much do you know about democracy -maybe you should be reading books on that subject cause it seems as though the concept called democracy is a blindspot for many muslims.


Muhammad Mosa - 2/17/2006

Misra, Enta Omak Zania Feek


Gary - 2/17/2006

Quote: "Try to read more about islam.
We don't fight for nothing, we fight for raising God's word."

Many of us have read about Islam and the Koran. It is all replete with violence and terrorism inflicted upon innocent, defenseless people. And don't try the famaliar line of, "it was all done during a time of war and it was "self-defense". We know better. Read some of the previous posts to your brother Hasan.


Bus - 2/17/2006

Listen Muhammad - you are wrong!
Everybody wants to learn and listen - but not with aislamist-fascist gun at their head!
You go read, and stop aeting all what the mullahs and imams serve you - you are not a robot are you?


Muhammad Mosa - 2/17/2006

Misra, again you people say, anti-Semitic. :0).
You people sick.. If you review all Jews history, you'll find that they are the most Coward people on earth.
review and read more in histroy


M.T. - 2/17/2006

Thanks Alan, its working I think - and your support had made the whole difference to a nation in bewilderment (is there such a word?)
I think the danes have revaluated the concept of friendship - and found the americans to be a true friend, in all this... I think you should support denmark and yourself, by coming to our small but free country, and feel velcome: I'll buy the first round of beer or danish or both!

Say hi from me to your generous familiy - the gesture really means something... its really heartwarming!

And by the way, what you said about your country - its what makes america great, and why we can be proud to stick to our ideals!

Take care!


Muhmmad Mosa - 2/17/2006

Who is talking about freedom and dictatorship?! You mad me laugh!
You are living in fake, did they teach you this in school baby?!
ooh.. good.. go ahead with your think, but give yourself a chance to expolre who is muslims and what is islam.


Gary - 2/17/2006

Quote: "if Muslims were united and strong as they were in ages ago, this would cause a third world war."

A true follower of the "peaceful", "holy" Koran!!!


Muhammad Mosa - 2/17/2006

Yes, If you didn't return to be Muslim, you must be killed. :0)
and I'll be proud to do that.
So where do you live, if you are that brave.
I feel sad about that. not because you turned from Islam. but because you didn't understand what is Islam.
Ya Allah, 7aram 3aleek Nafsak ya A7'y, Laken "Enaka la tahdy mn a7babt wa laken allah yahdi mn yasha2"
Ro7 ya 3abd Allah, wi yoom el deen, towafa kol nafsen 7a2aha


infidel - 2/17/2006

How disgraceful. These words from a Canadian!

"the Danish should apologize"?

The islamic savages are demanding that the Danish GOVERNMENT apologize. Are you not reading the situation?

Should we demand then that the OIC and individual islamic governments apologize for 9/11, 3/11 and 7/7 and/or each act of terrorism committed in 125 conflicts around the world that involves moslems on one or more sides?


Bus - 2/17/2006

You had an apology from the newspaper - but you want a different one?!
You had the danish prime minister say that he finds the drawings stupid and unnecessary, and stress to you that muslims are being fine in denmark!

This is not about the cartoons anymore - this is about islamists fucking with you and your religion; trying to stir up hate against the west - and its working! What do you do, instead of rampaging the streets burning everything? Nothing!
By now, the arab world owes the danish people an apology for their hijacking of an entire nation (you wouldn't have done that, if it where the US)
You are hipocrites - and you ought to say you are sorry to a lot of people; several of whom you made cartoons much worse than these simple danish newspaperdrawings!
Nobody in the entire world understands your HUGE minority complex!


Muhammad Mosa - 2/17/2006

We Beleive in Juses, We Beleive in Muhammad, and Islam is not what your saying, do you what is Islam?! No you don't, you hear from here and there, read about islam to know what Islam, what is Islam is asking people for.


Muhammad Mosa - 2/17/2006

did you visit the sites?!
did you tried to read about Islam.
Islam is great, you like it or not. not because I'm saying this, but because it is sent from god. and yes it from god, and that is mentioned in the Bible about Muhammad. but you don't even read the bible. so what do you beileve in?


Alan - 2/17/2006

As an American (thus, perhaps biased), I think they have apologized enough already. Americans on both the left and right have united in our support for the Danish. In fact, where is the apology from muslims for their extremists' behavior. I understand that the extremists themselves won't apologize, but it is important for the moderates to show disgust for this behavior. I constantly apologize for my govnt's behavior (i can't wait until 2008), not because I am ashamed of America, but because I am willing to admit we have some serious faults, particularly among American extremists. In fact, this self-criticism makes me more proud to be an American, because it exemplifies that the core ideals of my country are still here.

By the way, any update on the "Buy Danish" campaign. As I said, we Americans have continuously bought Danish for some time now (my family has spent over $2,000--lots of groceries and furniture), but we don't know if the damage has been reversed. I can't read Danish, and I haven't seen any updates on English-language Danish websites, thus I am inclined to say that the push to "buy Danish" has been stopped.


infidel - 2/17/2006

The premise is laughable.

Random Danish or western mothers do not run around slaughtering people, or wish death and destruction to those who disagree with them. (Well, excepting Kathy Lee Gifford maybe)

No right-thinking human can believe that mohammad was such a pure, kindly, flawless gem of a man, comparable at ANY level with Jesus or other saintly people who pretended to be "prophets" from "God".

Naturally, the moslems think thats the case, despite the mountain of evidence pointing to the fact that he WAS a warlord, a man of intemperate appetites and insatiable bloodlust.


Muhammad Mosa - 2/17/2006

Again, you are the one who started to insult, and you don't think, and you don't try to realize.
Imagin someone took a cross with Jesus on it and put it under his feet.
me as muslim will refuse such a thing, and I may fight for that, because Jesus is prophet send by God. a greate Symbol to people. he is not like normal people, he is someone choosen by allah -god-.
I'll pay my life, and not to see someone, ignorant draw a stupid cartoon insulting my prophet. One day, may be when you die, and go to your grave. you'll know the result of your word you've just said now.
Try to read more about islam.
We don't fight for nothing, we fight for raising God's word.


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/17/2006

I am asking you to answer a question not preach to me about Islam.

I have read the Quran more than once, because I had to when I was young. I am not a Muslim anymore.

Many more would leave Islam if they were not scared of being killed.

Can you answer the question?


Scandinavian - 2/17/2006

We will try to understand you, when you stop having those childish fits, screaming and yelling like in a kindergarten... Theres nothing great about islam, in the picture that is painted right now... only some proud ancient history, that a bunch of madmen thinks entitles them to take over the world... cant you see you have nothing to offer the world, when opression of women and Sharia is your guide?
Everybody else can!
Get a grip and lets talk!


Muhammad Mosa - 2/17/2006

Islam is a religion of peace, even you like that or you don't.
Islam word translation is peace.
Our greeting is "Al Salamu alikom" = "peace be upon you". Which mean we muslims are people of peace, but your heart should live in peace..
God help you.


Bob - 2/17/2006

You're right - you're totally brainwashed, talking about ww3 because of a cartoon! Think about that for a second...
Cant you see thats why the rest of the world thinks your religion has a bomb on its head?


Bob - 2/17/2006

Sounds like something from Tolkien... Do you believe that shiite when you think about the disunity of arabs?
(except from childish cartoons, that is!)


Moneer - 2/17/2006

The Danish, and all of Europe, should beg for forgiveness. This craziness is their fault. All we Muslims want is a REAL apology.


Muhammad Mosa - 2/17/2006

Again, You Ensan 7orr, seems to be not Muslim, but you are and Egyptian or at least Arabian.
And the Question is, Do you know what is Islam, What Islam contains, What Quran hold in its holly words?! I think you should try to read about that. And "Research and investigate for yourself as an intelligent person" and not as someone who just hate islam and muslims for some reasons. When Muslims rules there embire, they were peacful, kind and treat non-muslims in a good way that whole Europe Kingdoms at that time was treating there people as slave. and return to history, and you'll find that I'm right.

Hope god may reveal your blindness and the darkness of your heart.


Tom Tolbene - 2/17/2006

The Italian embassy was torched in Libya...when will this madness stop? As a Canadian, I think the Danish should thoroughly apologize. I am used to these actions against the US, but now the focus is on other Western countries (UK, France, DENMARK, Italy, Germany,etc..). Why should the entire West (including USA), pay for your stupid cartoons? I do not want Canadians harmed because of your degrading diplomacy.


Slater - 2/17/2006

Yes.


Muhammad Mosa - 2/17/2006

ooh Attack on Denmark, I know that Denmark is peacful country with peacful people, But why don't you think that Xions or jews were behind such a thing to insult muslims?!! well we think that we too. And because you may not know what such cartoons means to Muslims, you would think that Egypt behind the campagine, But such cartoons if Muslims were united and strong as they were in ages ago, this would cause a third world war.
Try to relize the idea of what the prophet Muhammad pbuh meens to us.

Salam


Muhammad Mosa - 2/17/2006

Hey, why don't you all explore what Islam, and who is the prophet Muhammad -peace be upon him-?!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islam

and if you interest in more visit this site:
http://english.islamway.com/

try to be positive and understand Muslims feelings.


Gary - 2/17/2006

Quote: "But if you start promoting violence in the name of Islam, I will protest. That violence isn't legalized by your Prophet (peace upon him). He isn't the carrier of evil - don't ruin his image."

The koran and historical data do not support your comment here. Violence is very much legalized and encouraged by the "prophet" (peace upon him).


Muhammad Mosa - 2/17/2006

Do you know what Islam, do you know who is Muhammad -peace be upon him-
Ok Take the chance to know, may be god will reveal your darkness:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islam

An does all of you from Isreal, the country of that has no civilization history?!


Sune Jensen - 2/17/2006

The goverment of Egypt has a large hand or a big role in the Case of The Muhammed-crisis in Denmark that the Danish Goverment had found out and Danish Security Counsil -

Is that a attack on Denmark ?


Mark Linham - 2/17/2006

It would seem to be a truism that governments are established by force. It is possible that we may not defeat or escape this basic reality.

The insidious thing is, however, that twin evil of rejecting reason in favor of revelation or faith on one hand, and the corrollary idea that force is all that matters on the other. This paradigm is a trap that not only can, but must be defeated.

Without digressing too much I hope, I believe your point is that Islamic governments are especially notorious for requiring the initiation of force for their establishment, and have left trails of carnage and tyranny in their wake. This is quite true, and this is also true of most other major organized religious governments. This is why my nation's founders (the founders of the United States of America) included in our supreme national law: Article I, the Bill of Rights, U.S. Constitution: the doctrine of separation of church and state: and explicit and clear proscription against the government respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Whether religion is right or wrong is something that can only be decided subjectively by the lone solitary individual. And since even a cursory examination of the matter plainly reveals this to be the case, the legal and political doctrine of church-state separation is crucial both to religionists of all kinds (whether they realize it or not), and to others (such as myself) who prefer not to have a faith.


Pomerol - 2/17/2006

BOB LOL he is on the TV. And that's just fine by me - superb actor.
I think the wife would be pretty upset if he was in my bed. Let's not get carried away. Ensan wanted to focus on this issue.

"I would really like to focus on the main question here "Islamic countries only where the Muslim armies reached ".


Bob - 2/17/2006

Jack Nicholson's in your bed??


Pomerol - 2/17/2006

I would really like to focus on the main question here "Islamic countries only where the Muslim armies reached ".

Point taken. We can start the other thread later. Dear old Jack Nicholson is calling for me - better give him my full attention ;-)


Mark Linham - 2/17/2006

I'm another atheist. An atheism discussion would be good.


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/17/2006

Thank you for your opinion Pomerol.

I would really like to focus on the main question here "Islamic countries only where the Muslim armies reached ".

I would like to talk more about your ideas though, so how about if you start a new thread for it? Intelligent thinking=Atheism?


Pomerol - 2/17/2006

"Research and investigate for yourself as an intelligent person."

If you investigate enough you will find that every single religion has been used for the wrong purposes. If you investigating enough you will end up being an atheist like myself. Is that a good thing - I don't know!

Religion begins, where reason stops. How can you then decide wether or not a religion is good. I guess you will have to do another kind of investigation - you will have to travel deep within yourself and ask whether or not your religion is good for you. If it's good for you, I believe I have nothing to fear.
If someone uses your religion for the wrong purposes stand up for yourself. Don't let these people talk on your behalf.

I still think most of the people of this world aren't hungry warlovers. I still think that if we do not let ourselves get carried away by demagogues in the end we can all unite and remove evilpowers from their offices. The West really isn't interested in wars - I think we all had enough already.......and I don't consider muslims any different. I don't believe you are warlovers either - it's simply against human nature. If you decide Islam is good for your that's fine by me. It's a free world - or at least it should be and you have the right to be religious. I won't ever try to take that away from you. But if you start promoting violence in the name of Islam, I will protest. That violence isn't legalized by your Prophet (peace upon him). He isn't the carrier of evil - don't ruin his image.


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/17/2006

Why did countries that Muslim armies did not invade not become Muslim nations if Islam was spread by peace and tolerance?

Notice the map of the Islamic world now. Why does it beam out of Mecca?

To all honest Muslims, you are probably a Muslim now because your ancestors were forced into Islam. Don't defend anything blindly. Research and investigate for yourself as an intelligent person. If you decide that Islam is for you after that, then more power to you and I mean it.

Infidels are welcome to comment as well.


- 2/17/2006

I am living in Turkey and muslim. I always proud of being muslim. I could not understand why Denmark makes this silly thinks.Playing with Our prophet is not your business. &#305;f you want to make fun please use another things.And if you cannot find anything in order to making fun, just look at the mirror. you will meet the most funny thing in the world by looking at the mirrors. let's play the game with its rules. and now it is the time of rule.


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/17/2006

The bounty offered by the religion of peace has been increased to $1 Million.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11383819/

When the Mafia put bounties on people's heads we fought them with all we have. Why are we still considering Islam a religion of peace? Are we taking the easy way out or just hoping for something positive to happen out of the blue?


BMC - 2/17/2006

... to offer as bounty on this guy's head?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5627294,00.html

Not that it would help. He'd just think he's off to paradise anyway.


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/17/2006

With all due respect to the dovish and peace loving civilzed people, Islam is not a peace loving religion. Anyone who denies that, is contributing to the problem.

See how a muslim cleric is offering a bounty to kill the cartoonists. Sounds more like a mafia than a religion to me:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11383819/


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/17/2006

Have you heard of the word "ignore" beofore? It works especially well with stupid people. I believe you think the Danish cartoonists are stupid, right?

By you saying something about my mother, that is just your openion.

I would laugh at your comment/drawing and feel a bit sorry for you.


Pomerol - 2/17/2006

Yeah your right. Last time someone was charged guilty of blasphemy was in 1939....
I had forgotten the laws even existed for a moment..
and now even the Christian preasts want those laws removed for good. God doesn't belong in a courthouse they say..


Dane - 2/17/2006

Yeah well, christian fundemantalists have not much to say in denmark; ridiculed by CARTOONS, films and such, since '68 - we have a long tradition of seperating religion and politics!


Mark Linham - 2/17/2006

No, the primary targets of Islamic terrorism are: 1) Israel, and 2) the United States (my country).

But in our (the U.S.) case, we're under attack from two geopolitical factions: Islamofascists, and our own home-grown rightist Christian fundamentalists.

Pray for us.


Thomas DK - 2/17/2006

http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/english/english.html

Even these guys are "leagal" in DK. They are forbidden in much of the Muslim, as in the western world. WE ARE NOT DENYING ANYONE THE FREEDOM OF ANYTHING IN DENMARK.


M.T. - 2/17/2006


They are burning a cross in front of the danish embassy in Iran, and a Pakistani Iman have promised 25.000 $ and a car for the beheading of one of the cartoonist.
The world is shaking its head!

Islam is turning to be a fascist hipocrite religion?

Will normal islami followers act, or will islam forever be a terrorist religion, killing randomly in the world?

Is there an end to muslim madness, or is this the dawn of their religion?

Can the world ignore these hordes of religious rioters, leaving them alone in their world of hate and intolerance?

Can we leave innocent children to grow up under the oppression of a religion gone bad?

How do we free the world of this rising evil?



Will any moderate muslim answer, or just turn their heads as usual?!


Slater - 2/17/2006

Well, we do have Domus Vista. That would be pretty easy to hit with a jet.
It's only about 30 stories, but everything around it is flat as pancake, and it can be seen from all over Copenhagen.

http://www.highways.dk/danmark/hovedvej1/images/kbh_domusvista_front1_200x150.jpg


Pomerol - 2/17/2006

9/11 won't take place in DK. Living in DK surely we have been forced to think that thought. Taking the subway every morning surely it crosses my mind, when I pass the biggest traficcenter Denmark - maybe some idiot will put an end to my life today - but I have decided not to let the psychological terror run my life - so the subway it is. As time passes by I think we will all learn to deal with it and not let islamists control our lives. But 9/11 no I don't think it will happen in Denmark. I could think of other more appropriate places, but I'm not going to revail them on this board. No reason to inspire some sick mind to crimes against humanity.


Peter Pedersen - 2/17/2006

We dont have tall buildings like that in Denmark :-)

Well terror-attacks are always a risk when you live in a free country. We seen it in USA, in UK (london), in Spain (Madrid) etc. etc.

Denmark have long gone free (despite our presence in Iraq as part of the coalition). The "message" wouldnt be as good as when the terrorists are attacking London or New York. However now that Denmark is "famous" for the cartoons i am sure someone somewhere is planning something.

I think - like most danes - that the risk of terror against danes have risen. Especially abroad, as danish travellers or businessmen. The danish foreign ministry have changed updates on alot of countries especially in the middle east.

I think a higher risk of terror is what we have to live with in these times. Unfortunately. But untill Islam moves forward, in progressive way, it seems this will happen.

Scared ?. Hell no !. We all have to leave the earth sometime. That is a fact.

We cant allow these people to scare us, that would mean giving in to terrorism.

Peter


Mark Linham - 2/17/2006

Point taken, and understood.


Peter Pedersen - 2/17/2006

Danish people as racists ?. Ha. Let me laugh. Denmark established the roadmap to peace in the middle east. Denmark is one of the top 3 contributors to the UN. Denmark has a history in helping out all over the world, including Pakistan, where help-workers now had to be sent home for their own safety. Tell me: How does this help Pakistan/Muslims ?. Denmark respects all cultures and religions. To mention a couple of examples, we have imposed Halal-meet in all copenhagen schools not to offend muslims. Also in swim-lesson we give seperate showers for the muslims, since their religion tells them they cant bathe with non-believers of muhammad.

But we take the liberty to critizising what we disagree with. Like suicide bombers!. Its called democracy, not racism.

So therefore: Don´t boycut danish products. It will not be to your benefit. You should actually buy more danish/westerns stuff, thus suring the interaction between cultures, people and religions. Denmark also produces alot of products that benefit muslims fx. medicine and handicap-accesories.

Peter Pedersen, who strongly supports cultural interaction - not closed countries and boycutts !.


Raj - 2/17/2006

Nowhere in this article is mentioned the reason for these riots: 50+ hindu pilgrims were burnt alive in a railway compartment. They were _beaten_ back into the cars when they were screaming and trying to escape. The poorer sections of the hindu population exploded in anger and retaliation.

Now, is such islamic behavior- wanton slaughter- by the hindus in retaliation justified? absolutely NOT.

However such violence is not a systemic problem with hindu"ism". The population of muslims in india has gone up both in percentage terms as well as absolute. At this rate india may become muslim-majority in another 50-70 years. Is this because hindus are intolerant as a society? Thousands of mosques stand where stood the timeless hindu temples which the invading muslims threw down.

Good luck trying to equate islam - a cult of death and dismay that has been going strong for 1400 years - with india's social problems, ironically, caused by islam. Note, how I say islam - not muslims.


John NYC - 2/17/2006

Just a thought; is there a remote risk of a 9/11 in Denmark after all of this? Surely this must go ones mind when living there, but my poor knowledge of the daily life in DK concludes that it is just not an issue. I might be TERRORBLY wrong...


John NYC - 2/17/2006

“Right now there’s megaphone diplomacy,” Annan said in the interview, which aired late Sunday on Denmark’s national DR television. “And I think we should turn off the megaphones and begin to talk quietly to each other.” Annan said he defends free speech, but insisted “it has to come with some sense of responsibility and judgment and limits.”

“There are times when you have to challenge taboos,” he said. “But you don’t fool around with other people’s religions and you have to respect what is sacred to other people.”

PC from top brass;-)


Mikkel Pind - 2/17/2006

Well I see your point. But in regards to printing the drawings you do not see the same level of PC in European media as in the US. Another thing is what comes out of Solana and Annans mouths. Who said PC? ;)


Pomerol - 2/17/2006

"As long as PC is strong and present in a society, those heavy subjects like colour or immigration will never get "solved"... In my opinion ;)"

I agree with your opinion. Things must be out in the open if they are to be solved. US still has ways to go in terms of not given in to PC. But before we start accusing our american friends of making this mistake - maybe we should start by looking at the EU. Surely lots of PC has been used within the last couple of weeks....


Pomerol - 2/17/2006

Everyone remembers The King. Khader has in many ways chosen to walk in his footsteps and by doing that he will most likely be in danger for the rest of his life. But just like MLK I think Khader sees no alternative - sometimes freedom doesn't come easy..

Not all muslims in Denmark supports his views - but if muslims want to unite with the European infidels, they really ought to be looking his way.


Mikkel Pind - 2/17/2006

Well about MLK. I wanted actually to do the same analogy in my previous post, but then I thought it would be way out. ;)
When I lived in the states I saw tension where I never experienced it from Denmark. But where was the public debate? There where things you should not discuss or "lines" you should not cross. Not in a dramatic way, but still I noticed a lot of unwillingness to talk openly about certain subjects like for example about colour/complexion. Obviously the media has taken this "political correctness" PC into its midst, so suddenly there are things we should not speak about... Why didn't the US media print the drawings? PC! As long as PC is strong and present in a society, those heavy subjects like colour or immigration will never get "solved"... In my opinion ;)



Mark Linham - 2/17/2006

Hasan,

If there really is a God, surely He (or She) wants us to live in peace and prosper. It is not logical for any of us to be up in arms for any religion. And this is even more the case, if this central point is lost on us.


John NYC - 2/17/2006

Spot-on good points, all of you. Islam light - Mikkel Pind you state that Mr Khader is currently in danger. As it is, he might be exactly that for the rest of his life....anyone remember Mr MLK?


Mikkel Pind - 2/17/2006

Hasan: You are right, that if this is what happened, you are absolutely right. This is a very bad thing. Maybe if all Indians obeyed the same law no matter which religion they followed, the tensions would be smaller.

Good to se that you are finally coming around and understanding that no one should be above the law or be treated differently because of religion. Bravo Hasan! ;)


Mikkel Pind - 2/17/2006

Bent: very good reply, I agree 100%.

Just to clear up a small glitch. It is not a political party, it is an association of muslims. Also Khader have been under very strong protection for a long time now, long before this whole case with JP. The reason for this is threats from extremist that does not like his "Islam light" way of life (Abu Laban expression).

Why has it come to this before muslim moderates make a public strong opposition? Two things (in my opinion).

-Because not a lot of muslims could identify themselves to the extremists. Why should muslims condone other muslims actions in public just because they are muslims? Well NOW the actions of extremist in Denmark has forced the silent majority of muslims to actively involve themselves because otherwise other people would regard them as followers (Not that I condone this generalization, but if the actions are so extreme from a small group, you are forced to speak out if you are unfortunate enough to be put in the same group).

-Second reason is fear. The wast majority of muslims in Denmark know what to do or what not to do in the "muslim world". If someone, maybe like Khader, speaks against extremist publicly, not only he could be in danger (which he is), but also relatives in the country of origin might feel the heat. It is seen in other contexts as for example, honor killings (coward acts in my opinion) in Denmark last September. I girl got killed because she got married to a man that the family did not approve of. 9 people (mostly family living in Denmark) are being prosecuted.

That is my explanation, anyways.


Mark Linham - 2/17/2006

Hello "Muslim",

I shouldn't dignify you with an answer, but here goes:

The right to free speech means absolutely nothing unless it protects that speech which we all find offensive. A non-coercive statement must only be answered with another statement, not force.
Speech as such does not truly harm anyone, unless it is an order to bomb, stab or shoot someone that then is obeyed, as in your "holy" men's "fatwas".

Furthermore, your "prophet" DOES, figuratively speaking, wear a bomb in his turban - and much worse than that, as the actions of unthinking Muslim fanatics prove.

Before you criticize someone's statement (or cartoon) - let alone go crazy and riot about it - you might try thinking about what it might mean to see if you can *rationally* refute the meaning of the statement. In this case, of course, you can't.

As for any legitimate reasons you might have for being angry.. trust me, they have nothing whatsoever to do with someone's drawing.


Pomerol - 2/17/2006

Why did it had to come to this, before a muslim "party" could be a reallity?

Good question. Anyone can make a political "party". Why have no muslim made this party before - my answer would be this:

Anyone can make a political "party" if they wish. Making this political party as a muslim required a whole lot of strong will. Khader is living under protection at the moment, due to the fact that this move could incite hatred amongst some islamists.

Khader is surely a man of the future, even though I'm not a muslim, I will support this party by making financial contributions. They will be playing a major role in the future - primarily because Khader has founded a movement that not only is supported by muslims, but also by a huge crowd of infidels like myself. I wouldn't say they put democracy before Islam. These muslim have created new ways of living in europe as modern democratic muslims.

To all the danish democratic muslims -you have my deepest respect - you make us all believe in a better future.


hasan - 2/17/2006

Starting on the morning of February 28, Hindu mobs unleashed a coordinated attack against Muslims in many of Gujarat's towns and cities.56 Despite the state's claims that police were simply overwhelmed by the sheer size of the Hindu mobs-often numbering in the thousands-evidence collected by the media, Indian human rights groups, and Human Rights Watch all point to state sponsorship of the attacks. Eyewitness accounts cited throughout this report, as well as the history of police and political recruitment demonstrate the state's partisan role. In a matter of days, over 3,000 muslims were massacred in Gujrat, India alone.

According to an article in The Week, a weekly Indian news magazine, 1,679 houses, 1,965 shops, and twenty-one godowns (warehouses) were burnt, 204 shops looted, and seventy-six shrines were destroyed in Ahmedabad. The great majority of them belonged to Muslims.

The attackers arrived by the thousands in trucks, clad in saffron scarves and khaki shorts, the signature uniform of Hindu nationalist, or Hindutva, groups. Shouting slogans of incitement to kill, they were armed with swords, trishuls, sophisticated explosives, and gas cylinders. Guided by computer printouts listing the addresses of Muslim families and their properties, information obtained from the Ahmedabad municipal corporation among other sources, they embarked on a murderous rampage. In many cases, the police led the charge, aiming and firing at Muslims who got in the mobs' way


"Alleging that police personnel in Gujarat were directly involved in the killings of hundreds of Muslims, the New York-based Human Rights Watch organisation has urged the international community to put pressure on the Indian government to end "orchestrated violence against Indian minorities."

According to the preliminary report of SAHMAT, a Delhi-based nongovernmental organization, its fact-finding team found graffiti left behind on the charred walls of a burnt madrassa in Sundaramnagar, Ahmedabad boasted of police support:66

Yeh andar ki bat hai
Police hamarey saath hai
(This is inside information, the police are with us).

Jaan se mar dengey
Bajrang Dal zindabad
Narendra Modi zindabad
(We will kill. Long live the Bajrang Dal. Long live Narendra Modi)

Human Rights Watch interviews with eyewitnesses to the attacks revealed that that the attackers were carrying voter lists as well as listings of Muslim businesses, along with cell phones and water bottles "so as to be fully prepared for a long day's work.

Press reports and eyewitness testimonies, including those collected by Human Rights Watch, abound with stories of police participation and complicity in the attacks. Their crimes range from inaction to direct participation in the looting and burning of Muslim shops, restaurants, hotels, homes, and the killing of Muslim residents.

An interim report on violence in Vadodara submitted to the NHRC by the nongovernmental People's Union for Civil Liberties (PUCL), documents in meticulous detail the selective burning and looting of Muslim homes and places of business, the destruction of mosques, the killing, beating, and maiming of Muslims, the extent of police participation in the attacks, and the role of the local media in inciting the violence.


"What happened in Gujarat was not a spontaneous uprising, it was a carefully orchestrated attack against Muslims"

Smita Narula Human Rights Watch


Bent - 2/17/2006

Because the radical imams of denmark, has literally waged war on this Naser Khader, because he has announced that democracy goes before religion. He's an everyday muslim, practicing his religion like most muslims and christians in denmark!

Understand that the islamist imams in denmark is playing a power-play, to get more influence, and to set a islamist agenda: These are the imams who have stated that: Girls not wearing a scarf is asking to be raped, and women (even muslim women) are the instrument of satan, and should be covered entirely. They have tried to enter the concept of bloodmoney, after a homocide, into danish society. They have asked the muslim society to buycot danish kindergartens, because they think their religion is in danger.

The radical imam, Abu Laban called the people behind the new muslim initiative, and Nasser Khader, "rats in the hole"...Do you understand what kind of idiots we are dealing with here?

The radical imams only represents 5 or 10 % of the muslim population, but have taken everybody hostage - the entire dansih nation, in their religious struggle, that really isn't about the drawings anymore: That just ended with their hate-agenda-tour to the middle east!

We have freedom of religion, you can make your own political party as easy as nothing - muslims have every opportunity to be heard in denmark - but no danes want a gun to their head, as we'we had for the last weeks: the reign of the islamist imams is over, and everybody should work for the new moderates to get established... These "rats in the hole", is going to be a key player for muslims, not only in denmark, but all over europe - its the only way, away from the islamist anti-democracy movement!


Civilized Dane - 2/17/2006


Hey - an egyptian newspaper already glued the head of our queen on a swimwearmodel, and printed it - do you see us shout; "behead the infidel"?
Get a grip, your teenager-riot-religion is showing its ugly face every day: and what a good thing that it is, too!


GH - 2/17/2006

Goddamn, you are crazy - is it impossible for you to see the total brainwash you are a part of?
Islamism is truly a threat to the sanity of the human species!


Slater - 2/17/2006

Oh, and by the way -- That "your mom is a whore"-thing generally only works on Muslims.
In Denmark it takes a little more to offend us.

Apart from that, Gary is completely right. If you managed to truly offend us, which I doubt you could, we might be mad, be we would NOT want to kill innocent Muslims over it. And that is the difference between you and us.


John NYC - 2/17/2006

Being from the US, seeing the whole thing from a distance, the bare- naked truth is:
http://www.khader.dk/flx/in_english/support_network_for_the_democratic_moslems_/

Why did it had to come to this, before a muslim "party" could be a reallity? Any Danes who will comment on this? I mean should´nt it be possible without the crisis in the great nation of Denmark?


Gary - 2/17/2006

Quote: "would you still be as liberal as you are with the concept of our prophet nesting a bomb in his turban? Would you be as mature as you want us to be and laugh along with us as we ridicule you?"

We may not like it but neither would we burn your embassy and make death threats to your citizens because of it. That's the difference between being civilized and being barbarians.


A Muslim - 2/17/2006

If you want to show sympathy for anyone in this conflict, show it to the Muslims who have been offended by this insult to our religion.

If I called your mother a filthy whore, and posted a cartoon showing her fucking a dog in Al-Jazeera, would you still be as liberal as you are with the concept of our prophet nesting a bomb in his turban? Would you be as mature as you want us to be and laugh along with us as we ridicule you?

Or would you want to murder some ragheads for insulting the saintliness of dear old mom?

If you are truly as liberal as you claim to be, if you are truly, unconditionally liberal, try to help the Muslims that the insensitivity of Europe's publishers has besmirched by buying our products, thereby helping us to appreciate the leverage that capitalism provides.


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/17/2006

Infidel was trying to compliment hasan because he chose a somewhat intellectual approach this time by arguing "facts". It's true that these facts are only so in his mind and others brainwashed like him, but hey, at least he is not threatening to boycott or burn your embassy, Misra, since you pick on him so often ;-)


S Misra - 2/17/2006

Thank you Gary. Peace be unto you.


S Misra - 2/17/2006

You think Hasan is educated? Hasan has in other posts praised terrorism, praised fundamentalism, responds to arguments by attacking the messenger, not the argument, a basic error in logic, refers others to anti-gay and white-supremacist sites, has made anti-gay comments, anti-Jewish comments, including that Fox News (USA) and indeed all news is owned by Jews, and you still think this is intellectual? You've got to be kidding! He is a hack, unread in history, uncritical, and hateful. He thinks Muslims piss and fart perfume. Islam is violent. Mohammed is violent. The Koran bears witness to the use of violence. Hence, Sunni kill heretic Shiites, and Shiites kill heretic Sunni. Their god rewards homicidal murders of unarmed men women and children with the opportunity to break 72 hymens! They treat their women like property. They live by the sword, but tantrum like infants when their victims return with swords. Jesus teaches us to be nonviolent, to love our enemies, to do good to those who despitefully use us. He did not marry a child nor did he kill. Mohammed married a child! He killed! I see the difference. Jesus is superior. What Christians have often done is not justifiable by the words of Jesus, but Mohammed justifies many a crime done in his name. That is why they fear Jesus and ban evangelism in their tin horn dictatorships.


S Misra - 2/17/2006

What Danes are suffering, India suffered for a thousand years. Islam meant submission and practiced it, burning libraries, destroying temples, looting, raping, killing (don't believe me, read the histories of such people as sociologist Max Weber, mythologist Joseph Campbell, and historian H. G. Wells as well as the memoirs of Muslim courts). I always find it odd they complain about mistreatment. They knew how to dish it out, but don't seem to stop whining when it is dished out to them. They know how to live by the sword, but cry and tantrum like babies when their victims return with swords.


S Misra - 2/17/2006

I should have said, Mohammed promises 72 hymens to homicidal killers (misnamed martyrs)in "heaven." Muslims also keep their women as chattel. No nation can rise that treats their women like property, under large sacks, uneducated (they kill teachers who teach girls in Afghanistan), and unable to drive (as in Saudi Arabia, home of the so-called prophet). Women are not property. Who can trust men who enslave their mothers, grandmothers, daughters, and wives? What kind of civilization is this. No real man would do this, this systemic violence, this wholesale uncivilized dehumanization. By the way I am a man.


S Misra - 2/17/2006

Muslims practice their own form of idolatry. They demand one lifetime trip to see a rock in a desert, where hundreds get trompled, and they use repetitive phrases such as "peace be unto him (pbuh)" following the name of their prophet, a violent man (I'm not sure they see the irony of following a violent man's name with pbuh). What greater idol can there by than if all others are banned from questioning him or offering other faiths. Muslim nations do not allow evangelism. They are faithful to a violent book, a book that teaches us to kill others. Jesus teaches us to love even our enemies, to turn the other cheek. No, we need not respect a prophet who promises homicidal murderers, such as the one who killed four children on their way to school in Iraq, or the two who were murdered when a bomb went off in Pakistan. Muslims, united? Shiite kill Sunni and Sunni kill Shiites; each is a heretic to the other. Muslims are by far the greatest killers of Muslims (Bangladesh, where Pakistan killed 1-3 million in the early 1970s; Baluchistan, where they indiscriminantly bomb; and, of course, any non-Muslim is a target of kidnapping anad murder). Islam is violent. Violence destroys reason and too often allows the evil to win and not the good. Jesus, Gandhi, King, these offer a better way.


S Misra - 2/17/2006

I don't mock your religion, I question it. Just because you bow or burn incense, or chant, or kneel, or genuflect, that does not mean I cannot question the words of your faith, your holy books. Muslims are told, for example, in the Koran to kill those who refuse to believe in Islam. Jesus teaches us to preach and reason, then to walk on to those who do choose to hear. The Koran teaches violence against sinners, Jesus teaches nonviolent, loving correction by preaching. I question your Muslim holy book. That is what free and reasoning minds do, Hasan. Why are you afraid, or so overwhelmed with anger that you respond by name calling and bad jokes. And, for all your talk in the above post, I remind all in other posts, you have supported terrorism, supported fundamentalism, referred people to anti-Semitic sites and anti-gay sites, made anti-gay comments, and have accused American television news of being "controlled" by Jews, revealing yourself to be an anti-Semite. You have lost all moral standing and are in no position to throw up your hands like some idiot wrestler, you know the kind who dress up in foolish outfits, and beg for toleration when you are an intolerant, bigoted, anti-Semitic worshipper of a violent book.


S Misra - 2/17/2006

Calling names again, my intellectually challenged friend? What does being an Indian have to do with my argument; it would be equally stupid if I said you were Syrian, or Saudi, or some other Muslim nation. Your comment is incoherent. You hate Jews, you claim in another post Fox News is owned by Jews. You are an anti-Semite, a vile little hater. For all your whining about the Crusades, you did your own damage to a number of parts of Europe, where today, you are still hated, such as in the Balkans, where you brutalized the local Christians. In India, Indonesia, and elsewhere, you brutalized local people. Everyehwer you went, you left people hating you for the burning of libraries and the destruction of temples. In Africa, your Muslim ancestors made slavery a coast to coast business long before the Atlantic trade in slaves. If you live by the sword, be man enough not to whine when your victims return with swords and put you in your place. Hasan, stop whining like a baby. Respond to logic with logic, not with your ad hominem nonsense. The United States of America, The European Union, India, Israel, and other civilized nations will defeat you if you choose the sword. You are amateurs compared to Nazis and WWII Japan. You will be defeated utterly and completely because your nations are corrupt, your religion is violent, and your people are backward and ignorant. I, by the way, am buying Danish, and French, and any other nation that will stand up to you tin-horn primitives.


S Misra - 2/17/2006

Why am I not surprised you hate Jews, you anti-Semitic trash? In every Muslim country, anti-Semites rule, all the time trying to convince others that WE are all "people of the Book." No, anti-Semitic Hasan, Jesus teaches peace, Mohammed is a killer, as are his Shiite and Sunni children. When Muslims are murdered by Muslims, not another Muslim says a peep. The Koran is a book that teaches hate and murder, one only needs to read it; it is obvious to me you are a good student of that book, because you too are a vile hater and a cheerleader for murderers. You, therefore, are a good Muslim. Shame on you Hasan, Jew-hater, anti-Semite, enemy of every thinking man woman and child, enemy of God.


S Misra - 2/16/2006

5,000 Muslims killed in India? Compare it to the murder of 1-3 million Bengali Muslims by Pakistani Muslims. Nothing makes the killing of civilians right, whether they are Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Christians, or any others. So, my misspelling, noncapitalizing, synctatically challenged and historically illiterate friend, attacking me is meaningless. I agree that persecution of Dalits is wrong. I also know that the current persecution and killing of Ahmedis and Baluchis in Pakistan is wrong. I also know that the burning of Christian neighborhoods in Lebanon and the killing of Christians is wrong. But will you, my vulpinous (sic) (which I assume comes from vulpine meaning fox, so I assume this "word" means fox-like!) buddy, ever admit to a single wrong of Islam or ever respond to a single fact. You have not yet addressed one criticism of mine, only attacked. Poor Hasan. Try as you might, you cannot wrap your mind around a logical argument. Where spittle flies, reason falls, little Hasan. Read, Hasan, and do include in your readings a dictionary and a book on the rules of basic grammar.


S Misra - 2/16/2006

I am obsessed with how someone so incredibly inane can parade their intellectual and moral nakedness in public and claim to be dressed in finery. So far, you have supported terrorism, fundamentalism, have referred others to hate sites, have responded by calling names and bad "jokes" and otherwise revealed yourself to be rather inept defender of a faith that relies on violence, on a pedophile prophet, on turning women into slaves, women who never escape being used and abused even in Islamic heaven where they are reduced to hymenic trophies for homicide bombers, on the fear of losing to evangelism of other faiths (which is why your primitive nations prevent evangelism), and on idolatry, the idolatry of visiting a stone once in a lifetime. There is no Islam, Hasan, only Shiite and Sunni. Only yesterday, a man now enjoying virginal hymens in Islamic heaven murdered four children walking to school in a bombing, and two more children were killed by a Pakistani Muslim murderer now breaking hymens in heaven. What a gutter such a heaven is! With what glee you Muslims murder each other. You are your own worst enemies and no little Hasan can save the eventual demise of this cult of rock worship, worship that regularly results in hundreds, in bliss no doubt, trompling each other. Backward uncivilized so-called Muslim nations can never rise until those nations open up to evangelism, renounce violence, renounce a violent faith, and become the kind of people, who when upset, light candles and not kill babies and children and other innocents. Keep calling names, my little friend, never deal with the facts. That requires intelligence, perhaps a wit, and learning.


S Misra - 2/16/2006

Poor Hasan. The scholar is named JOSEPH Campbell, not William. Arguments are not won by idiotic assertions, or every idiot would be a philosopher. There is a God who had enough mercy on us that he sent us His Son, Jesus of Nazareth, who taught us how to suffer for our beliefs to demonstrate to others that they need not behave viciously, that might and violence can be won over by love, and the Holy Spirit is the Words of God, the common conscience of us all. If Allah was Almighty, he would have chosen a man so powerful in his example that he never had to kill to win over the world, not a man like Mohammed who married an underage girl, killed, and by his example and words taught all Muslims how to kill and why to kill. Poor Hasan! It is obvious to me you are most of all intellectually a rather small mind, unworthy of my time. If you are an example of Islamic scholarship in action, Islam is dead.


100% Danes - 2/16/2006

Peter you are an 100% asshole.
You speek for your self and only for your self.
grow up child

// 100% Denes


From Denmark - 2/16/2006

Denmark are the best cuntry in the whole world.
Free Doctor, Free Hospital, Free money to pure people, Free money to "not working" people, Free free free free... when many begin to see that many many prople begin to move to denmark. we did not have work for all thos people and they only come to take from this nice and free system. thats why we have strong rools. and that why we are called razist. it up to you. are we razist?


Gary - 2/16/2006

Quote: "I would list a few instances of smacking bitter reality mocking at the face of these civilized christian nations."

Hasan, you have not learned a single think that Misra has tried to teach you about historical FACTS. Another FACT that you choose to ignore is the blatant violence taught in your Koran. Open your mind and begin to LEARN.


Gary - 2/16/2006

Quote: "As for America, you're so dumb, do you actually think you will win a fight with the Muslim world. We will fight for hundreds of years, and eventually we will defeat you, and hopefully humiliate you, as you have done to us. Then, we will rule the world and spit on pathetic Westerners..."

You can start with me punk! Come on over and see what you think you can do in this effort. Prove to the world yet again that Islam is a VIOLENT religion. In reality, Islam is doomed to go down in history as another failed cult made up of fanatic lunatics. Have a nice day!


Knut - 2/16/2006

poor muslims, now they can't even drink real pilsner


John A - 2/16/2006

I allways drink Tuborg and will continue to do so.

I Norway we also printed the cartoon, but since we had a big oil deal happening that was worth many billions, we had to call a truce.

We printed the cartoon twice by the way. The first time was in one of our biggest papers and no one cared. The second time was in a Christian paper and our embassy in Syria was burnd down. (I think we have to stop letting these rats in to our country)


infidel - 2/16/2006

Dane, you speak english..like George bush. Is that relly YOU? dear and fearless leader? :X:X

just kidding. no worries. Post some more :-)


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/16/2006

You said it, Infidel. The intent is what matters. The Muslim's Intent for killing these hundreds of millions of people was to spread the RELIGION OF PEACE.

Can you blame them for wanting to share the love and peace of Islam with the rest of the world? Yah, the execution (pun intended) was a “bit rough”, but a good chunk of the world now believes in the RELIGION OF PEACE. Compare that to how the bloody infidels are trying to spread their evil democracy through elections and voting and you can start to see the predicament of the Muslim world created by the animalistic barbarian infidels.

Logical Muslims should thank Allah that there is not a Christian war against them. The infidels can wipe out the whole Muslim world off the world map (this line is borrowed from Ahmadinejad) within a few hours. But they don’t see a reason to do so unless their civilization and lives are seriously threatened. At that point, any rational person would not think twice about it. My life or your life is an easy answer don't you think?

Fortunately, it will not come down to this, and people will be able to read and learn about the world without everything being filtered with agenda-driven governments or Imams.

The infidels are not perfect, and so are Muslims. We need to work on our faults, and realize that after all, we all live on this earth, and should learn to co-exist, and respect each other’s way of living. And no, that does not mean respecting what YOU want me to respect. Rather, what I am convinced is worth respecting. Your actions as a good Muslim will force me to respect your religion and vice versa. As simple as that.


Pomerol - 2/16/2006

"The United States, compared to Europe (and in this case: Denmark), has a much better record of immigration of Muslims. Why?"

Comparing The United States and Europe in relation to immigration is kind of like comparing apples and oranges. United States is a country of immigrants. Having lived their myself, I always found it very funny hearing americans identifying themselves as Swedish, Danis, French etc.

Sometimes I couldn't help it and asked. "Wy don't you just call yourself american?" Usually I didn't really get an answer to this question. After 9/11 this american identity crisis has been overcome. Americans are finding it easier to identify themselves as such.

The "American dream" sure helps immigration, even though I still think the dream is somewhat unrealistic. Still this day that dream is primarily reserved for the american white caucasian males.

Walking down the streets of New York City, I don't think this dream has got much impact on the homeless sitting on their knees begging for a couple cents. Having seen the slums of Washington DC, I don't think this dream counts for all. But of course without dreams we won't ever reach the stars.

Back to Europe. Europe is not ONE. It's Impossible to sell the "European Dream" - cause it doesn't exist. We have united in EU, but EU is still a work in progress and there is a looong way to go.

The European countries used to be very homonymous in all aspects of life. And therefore the European immigration issues in this era of globalization can't be solved by looking towards United States.

We have just started building a European identity, and I don't think you and I will live to see the day, when this project has come so far, that the people of a Europe will call themselves Europeans. It's only a term used by "outsiders". I'm still a Dane. Germans are Germans. And French are French etc.

Having said this of course we must do our best to integrate foreigners with respect. But this project can't be solved if every time we integrate one person there is another twenty waiting in line. Of course if these twenty would at least respect the European beleifs in democracy this would help a lot. But reality unfortunately isn't that beautiful..

You might say that my vies are typical European. And I would agree.

Last but not least sorry about you girlfriends experience in Europe. She must have been hanging out with the wrong crowds. Not all Europeans are racists - in fact I would argue that most aren't.

Having highlighted the fact that Europe is not ONE. Maybe you guys should take another trip around Europe and take a good look again.

The Canadian way I can't be jealous of. I have been there myself on a visit to Toronto and Niagra Falls. But I know nothing about Canadian Immigration politics. You guys are usually very quite. Maybe it's because The United States is shouting too loud. But we don't really hear that much from our Canadian friends. Last time I heard from you was in the dispute about Hans Ø! Maybe that dispute has influenced the canadians perspectives when your heads turn towards Denmark...


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

I the West, "bondage", or the BDSM (Bondage and Discipline, Sado-Masochism) scene is usually understood to involve only *willing* participants. Anything else is called rape, and that is considered and treated as a crime.


F o S - 2/16/2006


Sounds good!

BUY DANISH:

http://www.buy-danishproducts.com/

http://www.buydanish.net/

http://www.madeindenmark.org/

Cheers!


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

Amen, Polo, amen.


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

I read you. i'm eating my "freedom fries" right now!


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

Casper,

European, as well as other politicians the world over, must learn that it is only *actions* that *physically* endanger others that should be illegal and enforced against.

A fringe political or religious group advocating some wicked or hairbrained notions cannot properly be outlawed, unless they are also, objectively, threatening the physical safety of others.

Rather than outlaw weird groups, a better approach might be criminal investigations of plans to commit bodily harm, or damage to property, when those plans become evident, and probable cause, then, exists. Probable cause will invariably be triggered at some point - usually sooner rather than later - when rogues are planning such mischief.

In the context of a *war* on terrorism (not a normal civil condition, to be sure), any immediate actions that stop a mass-murdering by the thug(s) of the moment - and that don't generally abridge the basic civil liberties that should always be the usual condition of life - should be considered at least partly vindicated by the life-saving result.

This being said - and though I'm not familiar with the group of which you speak - you're right that oddball, and even morally bad, groups and individuals should not be outlawed, so long as their activities truly are only speech, and not some physically harmful action.


Thomas - 2/16/2006

So-called "Danish pastries" are extremely popular around the world.

Bakeries in IRAN have been ordered to change the name of Danish pastries - to "Roses of the Prophet Muhammad".
Iran has already cut all commercial ties with Denmark, banning all Danish imports in retaliation for the Mohammed cartoons, which have sparked violent protests across the Islamic world.

Trust this will spark protest across the Western world, that Iran in the first place misused the word of freedom = Danish.

At the same time a footnote about 'safe handling' of the nuclear bomb could be stated ....


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

Nice to meet you, Slater. :)


Slater - 2/16/2006

Of course. Cheating on his wife was stupid, but it was their business, and theirs alone.


a dane - 2/16/2006

Sorry of course i mean hate...

I think about many years Bush and Fogh Andersen will be known as them there protect the Free Speach ( Really Sorry my english :( )


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

A politician, by seeking power, is obligated to consider him/herself to be accountable to the people (s)he serves, and, yes, should be legally enjoined from lying to the public about the public's business.

An exception to this rule can reasonably be made with regard to a purely personal matter (an issue that can't properly be considered a matter of state). It is for this last reason that I defended President Clinton during the Monica Lewinsky scandal, even though - technically - he lied.


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

I'm not quite clear about what you mean.. Could you repeat that?


Slater - 2/16/2006

I am in complete and total agreement.
About time someone (other than me ;) ) quit their whining, and realized that we are not only entitled by law to offend, but also morally free to do so.

The only exception I can think of (IMHO that is - you may disagree), is that politicians and governments should NOT be allowed to lie to the people.


Slater - 2/16/2006

It's perfectly alright - your points are as valid as anyone else's. I just want to make sure I understand you.

So basically you mean:
"I have respect for Islam, but not those who burn our embassies, hate our queen and burn Danish flags"

I do believe most of us completely agree. Moderate Muslims are fine, but those few retards who are burning, rioting and threatening over a couple of innocent cartoons, need to have their asses stiched into footballs and kicked back to the stone age where they belong.


Casper - 2/16/2006

Some partyes in denmark actually want to make hitz'ut'tahrir illegal....

That would be devestating to our democracy


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

Yes, they do.

Positive expression of all information, including opinions, not the supression of the same, is one of the methods whereby we may gropingly "find our way", as it were, back to the light.

In a free marketplace of ideas, it is the best - that is to say, the *truest* - ideas that ultimately win. But the honest and the good had better speak up - or forever hold their peace...


Casper - 2/16/2006

mark - Just remember that freedom of speech also signify the right to think that democracy is not the right way to go!

People like Hitz-ut-Tahrir, neonazis and other extreme groups has the right to utter their views


a dane - 2/16/2006

Very Thank you

We cant stand alone as a little country we is .. only 5 million people !


a dane - 2/16/2006

Sorry my english a little bit

Abassade=embassy
Hadge=Hade ( I think :o )


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

As far as I know, I have not purchased Danish goods before, but I'll be looking for them now.

The core issue here is freedom of expression, which must be upheld and defended without any compromise at all, and without sparing *anyone's* feelings.

As an American, I must accept that if someone wishes to burn a U.S. flag, I have a civic duty to tolerate that, even if I don't like it. Likewise "politically correct" speech codes must be abolished - eveywhere; in Europe and the world over (if possible) as well as in my own country.
If someone is a Nazi - repugnant though that is - and wishes to deny the Holocaust, he's wrong. But as long as he's otherwise behaving himself and not physically threatening others, he should be free to persue his folly.

If the Danes, or any of the rest of us, whish to criticize Jews, Christians, Islam, Mom, apple pie, God, or anything else, that is our categorical right to do so. And if the radical Muslims want to make fun of the Holocaust, so be it - as long as they don't in the process try to create a new holocaust!

Yes, we should be ethical, courteous, honest, civil, and even kind and compassionate toward one another. And the better specimens of humanity do just this very thing. But this is a *moral* prerogative, NOT a political one, or a matter for any forcible suppression, by either third parties or the state.

The primary issue, gentle reader, is yours, and my own, *right to exist*. This right to exist is a categorical *right*, not a privilege or permission. We are not required to pay for that right to exist by making other people happy with either ourselves, or our opinions. This right is a *birthright* of ALL human beings.

If we truly find each other so insufferable because of our opinions or any other personal characteristics, we each have the responsibility to do our utmost to avoid and/or ignore each other, not to try to forcibly silence each other.

If someone is spouting vicious nonsense, don't resort to censorship. Instead, exercise your own right to free expression and SPEAK UP! And say that what they are expressing is wrong!



Henry Levenger - 2/16/2006

As a Canadian, I do not see much immigration, but in order for me to explain my point of view about Denmark's problems, I will explain America's immigration consequences (both good and bad)for two groups (Muslims and Latinos).

The United States, compared to Europe (and in this case: Denmark), has a much better record of immigration of Muslims. Why?

1. They attract educated professionals, which have succeeded so well, that their average income is better than most Americans. Most Muslims in the country are engineers, doctors, etc.; they are not poor.

2. While there is a large amount of Muslims (almost as many as there is in Europe), due to the sheer size of the US, they make up a small percentage of the country. Thus, even though they may share different ideals than Christian Anglo-Americans, they're not very threatening.

3. While I think the US has many, many, many faults, they have done well by successfully selling immigrants on being "American". Immigrants feel they are part of the country, not just residing in it.

4. The US is closer to the Muslim world's ideals than Europe. In other words, they are more conservative than Europe, Canada, or South America. Even conservative Muslims, feel more comfortable here than in European life.

As for Latinos (mostly Mexicans, but there is also a huge amount of Central and South Americans), they have come to make up a large percentage of the country (much greater percentage than Muslims represent in most European countries). This has been good and bad.

1. As I said before, these Latinos feel a part of the "American dream". Moreover, most Latinos are Christian and their ideals mirror those of Anglo-Americans.

2. Yet, the sheer number of immigrants means that a large amount will be uneducated. Thus, most Latinos make less than the average American, and has led to some discourse.

Denmark (and Europe for that matter), have the worst of both worlds. They have a growing amount of Muslims coming into their countries, which means many are uneducated--not professionals. Combine this with the fact that European ideals differ greatly from those of Islam, and that Europe has a hard time selling the image of being "European" and you have trouble. My girlfriend is actually of Brazilian descent, but looks "Arab", and I was shocked by the level of racism she received in Europe. She walks freely in Canada or America (we have never heard insults in either country), but in your parts she felt belittled--imagine how a true "Muslim-European" feels.

Oh, and Canada is the best country in the world. We combine the few positives of the US and Europe and make a wonderful country; something Americans and Europeans are jealous of.


Slater - 2/16/2006

Ehm.. I think I understand most of what you're trying to write, although it may need to be spelled out to English-speakers that "ambassade" is embassy...

But what the hell is "hadge" supposed to mean?


Alvaro - 2/16/2006

Good Spaniards will help our Danish brothers in this crisis. We will fight for freedom speech and will consume products from Denmark. We must to protect our civilization from muslim menace.


Pomerol - 2/16/2006

A form of critical optic must be used in the reading of all books. Hasan I really don't think you have been using such a critical optic. And I'm really surprised, since I got the feeling, that you are an educated muslim. Is this really the result of reading a couple thousand book or are you just on a non-violent warfare trying to justify Islam. If that is the reason I kinda of understand, but what you have written above in an insult to your own knowledge I believe....


Pomerol - 2/16/2006

"America has a huge image problem, and Europe (more specifically Denmark) has a huge immigration problem."

Image problem I cannot deny. Since even some Canadians are uninformed ignorants and therefore holds a rather upsurd perception this must be your "truth" at the moment.

I'm still wondering about where this immigration problem is to be found within Denmark.

Danish immigration laws aren't strict compared to other EU countries.

We are at the moment thinking about getting more educated people to Denmark, due to the fact that a majority of the foreigners that have immigrated to Denmark are not very well educated - and that is a problem. We are trying to deal with it by paying for their education - even university degrees are paid for by the state.

Denmark is known around the world for its public welfare. But this public welfare can only be kept alive, if the majority of the danish population contributes to this system. No wonder Denmark is considered a paradise for people who needs help. In Denmark you can practically sit down in front of your TV all your life. If you don't want to work - don't worry about it - The state will take care of your laziness. If you get sick - don't worry about it - the state will pay your bills. And it goes on. I like this welfare system - but at the moment we really need to attract educated people to keep it running. Now if you consider that to be racist thought - I have no problem being categorized as such.


A Dane - 2/16/2006

I think many Muslims are sick in there head not moderate muslims but them down in the middle east !! They burning ambassade hadge our queen and burning danish flags !!
I think they have to say sorry becouse its much more worse than drawing 12 Muhammed Cartoons !!
I have respeckt for islam buch not them there burning ambassade hadge our queen and burning danish flags
I alsoe think it will be sick if we burning the Coran ...


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

Amen.


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

Hear, hear!


infidel - 2/16/2006

1) The Crusades launched to reinstate christian supremacy where school going children were also used to launch an offensive against muslims.

The Crusades were justifiable efforts to repel the islamic hordes that had invaded and occupied the holy land. There were SOME instances extreme moslem-like behavior, such as Richard the Lionheart's slaughter of hostages. Yet the crusades were totally against what Jesus taught: to turn the other cheek. Thus it was the christians' fault. Not christianity's. On the other hand Mohammad was a WARLORD and practised and advocated slaughter.

2) British Christians launching an attack on sub-continent enslaving muslims and indians.

Is THAT so? Britain brought the rule of law, railways, a sense of history (your indus valley civilization wasnt known to the world until British archaeologists dug it out;)), a unified "India" and more importantly (LISTEN to this Hasan) the British did not destroy a SINGLE hindu temple. Did.Not.Destroy.a.Single.Hindu.TempleAre you listening? The British did not make war on the ENTIRE populations like the moslem hordes did. 35-40 million hindus were slaughtered in roughly 800 years. The total number of DIRECT casualties inflicetd by 300 years can not exceed a few hundred thousand, most of it counting the armies of the local princes. The count goes up only when you include the famines -which were a result of administrative ineptitude , not doctrinally induced orgies of christianity.

3) Tyranically sucking all nations in World War 1 and 2

Yes Germany went nuts. Yet it wasn't guided by "christianity". Before you say these things think about just what a life Jesus led and what he said (allegedly) in the bible. All the madness of christians is due to human fallibility not the religion itself. Coming back to the WWs, it was the same "christians" who overcame the insanity, and indirectly lifted the burden of colonialism from the backs of much of the third world.
Today's arabs are amusingly pro-Nazi, but brown people would've been exterminated from the face of the earth if Hitler had succeeeded in developing the nukes first. You should be turning towards washington and praying 5 times a day instead of towards mecca.
America had the sole dominance of the earth for nearly 3 years (nukes i.e). What would mohammad do with such god-like power to exterminate civilizations? The question you should be asking is not why two nukes were dropped on militaristic Japan. You should be asking yourself: they dropped only two and then STOPPED when there was no one else to stop them. Why? Think about this for a while.

4) Hitler and Nazis promotes Christian Supremacy movement by conducting mass killings of jews with the blessings of the Church

Hitler promoted christian supremacy? hitler was a "pagan" obsessed with symbols and mysticism. You should read more Nazi history and literature.( And I dont mean the Qu'ran and teh Hadiths and the mainstream arab-press). As for the church, yes it was a shame that the cowardly pope kept quiet.

5) Civilized Christian Americans dropped Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima on Nagasaki thereby reliving their cherished memories of Holocaust.

Go back to the earlier reply. Why only two? how many wouldve mohammad dropped? Would mohammad have rebuilt the entire Japanese civilization from scratch and helped it to become the second largest economy in the world? Why is Japan the second most important Ally of America today? They are _Afraid_ that america might disengage and leave the east asian theater. WHY?

6) GOD fearing christians go on a rampage in vietnam wiping out an entire generation of innocent vietnamese.

Nothing to do with christianity. Or Jesus. Islam's violence has got everything to do with mohammad and the Qu'ran. BIG difference.

7) Tyrant christians starts unrest and conflict throughout the world to gain control of natural resources throught Africa & Middle East.

Consider the alternatives. Moslems invaded india countless times to subjugate and slaughter its people. Destroy thousands of temples. They tried to do that to france in 732 A.D and were soundly defeated/destroyed by Charlemagne's grandpappy. ;) The turks were stopped from infesting Europe at the gates of vienna a thousand years later. Arabs swept out of their bedouin homelands in arabia and occupied, destroyed, enslaved and exterminated the indigeous peoples of north africa. Thats why its part of the "Arab" league today. The slaughter still continues. By the way the arabs/moslems STARTED the slave trade in Africa. HELLO? Its just that the English took over and as usual, did a much better job than everyone else. Its not the lack of desire on the part of arabs/moslems to conquer and dominate, but islam doesnt have the inherente intelligence, strength and character to ACHIEVE it. Unlike the Belgians or the Boers in S.A, the British and french empires were spreading concepts sanitation, mass literacy, railways, technology, rule of law to the moslems and others. (while siphoning off MOST of the profits ..not ALL)

8) Serbian Christians raging war against Bosnian Muslims.

9) Christian tyrants killing innocent Afghans in Afghanistan.

oh really? Afghanistan was a buddhist region before the arabs and turkmen invaded, pillaged and DESTROYED everything that looked like anything to do with infidels. There is a mountain range called "Hindu Kush". Look up your encyclopedia to figure out just WHAT that means. In the 4 years of war, the number of "innocent" afghans killed hasnt exceeded thousands. Moslems AIM for collateral damage. Big difference.

10) Christian killing machine (USA) unleashed to kill and murder Iraqi civilians.

Thank god its not an islamic killing machine. Otherwise there would BE no iraq today. No protests, elections, conferences.

11) Civilized Christians raped, sexually abused, disgraced and brutally murdered muslim men and women throughout Iraq and Afghanistan.

Yeah? probably at .001% of what the arab, turk, turkmen hordes have done to ALL their neighbors, over CENTURIES. Learn more about teh Ottoman empire's methods of waging war, for example, before you spew what they tell you in the arab press.
Its ALL about the SCALE, intent and internal corrective measures, that set the english-speaking "christian" world apart from the moslems. How many moslems were ever convicted of killing a non-moslem. In the centuries-long history of this morbid death-cult?

If Christians are so evil, then WHY are the moslems lining up in these evil christian embassies to get into countries built by Christians? What RIGHT do the moslems have to even set foot on Danish soil?

From electricity to computers to internet to radio to television to practically everything, its all the evil christian's inventions anyway? ;)


Yaseen Taufeeque - 2/16/2006

If we believe in the freedom of speech we should also belive in respecting others and to avoide spread of misleadng, unrealistic propoganda that hurts others and creats intolernce. We sholud also be very responsible for assuring peace & prosperity in the society.


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

Dear Sir,

Allow me to clarify my position.

What I meant by the root of this post, is that evil - at least *moral* evil - is protected in a free society. This does NOT mean that *crime* (the physical initiation of force) is permissible or tolerable.

If any fascist individuals, or groups, such as Hisb' ut Tahrir, or any others commit crimes, or advocate the commission of crimes in such a way as to have a commanding presence to their operatives, and thus pose a clear and imminent *physical* danger to others, they may be properly arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law - or killed, if need be.

No, the right to freedom of speech has the purpose of protecting our right to life. It does not ever require us to sacrifice, or to endanger, that right.


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

So true, Slater,

I DON'T believe the Bible, or in it (literally, I'm am atheist), but I - symbolically, at least - am a Satanist for the reasons to which you refer.


European - 2/16/2006

Hasan - you've been reading to much Al Qaida literature: the western worlds many "faults" in history, isn't about christianity... or at least, it is a minor player in this!

The "measuring" of religions, that you are doing, is a sign that your religion has a minority-complex, don't you think?! And its a measure, that YOU think everythinh is religion - well luckily, its not the case, or the world would be in real deep trouble now. Imagine the muslim world running things, when they get SO upset by a cartoon...real scary thought!

Go read so more books - but read the right ones - ok!?


hasan - 2/16/2006

The west has often projected themselves as the most civilized of nations left on the face of this world. Nowadays many christians have started claiming their religion to be superior then islam. The christian supremacy movement is not new infact the roots date back to the early days of islam and beyond. I would list a few instances of smacking bitter reality mocking at the face of these civilized christian nations.

1) The Crusades launched to reinstate christian supremacy where school going children were also used to launch an offensive against muslims.

2) British Christians launching an attack on sub-continent enslaving muslims and indians.

3) Tyranically sucking all nations in World War 1 and 2

4) Hitler and Nazis promotes Christian Supremacy movement by conducting mass killings of jews with the blessings of the Church

5) Civilized Christian Americans dropped Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima on Nagasaki thereby reliving their cherished memories of Holocaust.

6) GOD fearing christians go on a rampage in vietnam wiping out an entire generation of innocent vietnamese.

7) Tyrant christians starts unrest and conflict throughout the world to gain control of natural resources throught Africa & Middle East.

8) Serbian Christians raging war against Bosnian Muslims.

9) Christian tyrants killing innocent Afghans in Afghanistan.

10) Christian killing machine (USA) unleashed to kill and murder Iraqi civilians.

11) Civilized Christians raped, sexually abused, disgraced and brutally murdered muslim men and women throughout Iraq and Afghanistan.

If i go on and on in chronological order with detail i could end up creating a biggest encyclopedia of christian opression and terrorism. These civilized christian forces are still on the road and still a few more countries left for them to destroy. What a GOD fearing humble religion you are promoting


Slater - 2/16/2006

Actually DON'T buy Arla. Danes don't. They hate Arla, because of the way they conduct business. They've just been fined 5 million DKK for abusing their stance to get rid of competition.


Slater - 2/16/2006

If I believed in the Bible, I'd be a Satanist for sure.

The reason? Lucifer is for free speech, God is not!

Just look at the story with the apple in the garden of Eden. God didn't want them to know the truth, but Lucifer, represented by the snake, did.

There is a reason Lucifer means The Lightbringer (or The Bringer of Enlightenment)


Slater - 2/16/2006

You do realize there are over 800 million Americans and Europeans, right?

You'd better hurry up if you're going to fuck us all :)


Slater - 2/16/2006

Alright, so.. what you're saying is Canadians know more about how racist Danes are, than Danes?
You are basing this on what? The actions of one newspaper? The fact that they are starting to think about more strict immigration laws, because the country simply can't hold any more people?

Are you a complete retard? Are these words too long for you? Should I outline the syllables for you? I can read this aloud very slowly and mail you the tape.


Slater - 2/16/2006

Heh. In case there were any doubts, that WAS slightly exaggerated. Nevertheless, I am tired of snobs who think they are more eloquent because they have a *smaller* vocabulary than me.

In any other situation, I would start monologing about the validity of swearing, and the improved understanding it causes, if used correctly.

In this case however, suffice to say: This whole debate is over freedom of speech, which includes expetives.

So shut the fuck up ;)


fgh - 2/16/2006

Well - thats denmark for you: we have to accept the fascist fuck-ups of Hisb' ut Tahrir, marching our streets with their nazi-propaganda.
Have to listen to their filth and anti-semitism! I just hope they break the law, so we can tear down their hipocrite lying league of loosers!


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/16/2006

Dear Sune,
Please take your time to read whats you comments on before writing...
Henrik (not me) does NOT say all muslims are terrorist...so Sune, read and understand...


Bus - 2/16/2006

Pakistan - yearh right, the place to be: looks like hell to me...


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

muhammed likes jizz in his ass.


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

"fuk" allah..


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

LEGO MY EGGO.


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

MODEERF RUOY KCUF


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

FUCK JESUS! FUCK ALLAH!
FUCK MOSES AND DAVID!

HAIL SATAN!


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

FUCK JESUS! FUCK ALLAH!
FUCK MOSES AND DAVID!

HAIL SATAN!


Mark Linham - 2/16/2006

Goddamnmotherfucking mohammed is like a big old turd stuck up the ass. Let's shit him out.


Infidel - 2/15/2006

Troll alert ;)


Mark Linham - 2/15/2006

Sometimes when I'm constipated, I feel like it's goddamnmotherfucking MOHAMMED IN MY ASS!! Can you believe it?!

Or if allah is everywhere, the he fo sho is in my ass! Think about it!


Mark Linham - 2/15/2006

A sense of humor goes with intelligence.


Mark Linham - 2/15/2006

A sense of humor goes with intelligence.


Mark Linham - 2/15/2006

HEAR! HEAR!


Mark Linham - 2/15/2006

You do not truly respect freedom of expression, if you only defend that expression that you agree with.

You must also defend freedom of speech for people you consider EVIL in order to be a true advocate of freedom.

And you must be an advocate of freedom in order to be an advocate of life.

And you must be an advocate of life in order to be the sort of person who, together with others who understand this, will help to build a happy and prosperous world.

So let's get moving on this, people. We have a world to win!

Think.. Be free.. And WIN!


Mark Linham - 2/15/2006

I like your post. I'm an American leftist too.

Two points on which I would differ, however:

1. Offending cartoons - or any other form of expression - MUST be broadcast whenever a person has the inclination. It's not the legal and political right alone, but also the actual exercise of individual freedoms, that as a pair ensures that those freedoms will indeed be protected and kept.

2. The left and the right should not compromise, but rather agree to be objective and fair with one another, and stop trying to violate individual rights.

To a happy - and free - world commonwealth. Cheers!


Hasib of Pakistan - 2/15/2006

I agree. Americans are stupid and arrogant, while Europeans are spineless and arrogant.

The only thing Muslims and Americans can agree on is that Europeans can't get anything done, because they have no power. That's why they want the Americans to do their dirty work, then they "criticize" them, so that they will look good in the world's eyes---YOU WON'T, YOU'RE JUST AMERICA'S BITCHES. You're like the girls who sit in stands and watch fights between men, and then try to kiss the ass of the winner.

As for America, you're so dumb, do you actually think you will win a fight with the Muslim world. We will fight for hundreds of years, and eventually we will defeat you, and hopefully humiliate you, as you have done to us. Then, we will rule the world and spit on pathetic Westerners! Have a nice day!!


Mark Linham - 2/15/2006

No thanks. We can fuck ourselves just fine, thank you very much!


Mark Linham - 2/15/2006

You're wrong.

Unabashed FREEDOM of expression, and boldness therein is critical to keeping those freedoms.

Censors the world over must learn that we will not be silenced.

Moreover, appeasement doesn't work.


Mark Linham - 2/15/2006

Well said, Slater.


Henry Levenger - 2/15/2006

We Canadians, unlike you, do not have this problem. It seems that Europeans and Americans are in trouble, but we're not. America has a huge image problem, and Europe (more specifically Denmark) has a huge immigration problem. You guys have to deal with the issues, even if reality is not driving the problems, but instead incorrect perceptions.


European - 2/15/2006

Its not about denmark: this is about, that criticism of islam is being restricted - instead of having a fruitfull debate about culture-clash, the right wing succedes in painting their grim picture... and the picture seems true to many these days; but we will fight it, together with moderate muslims who are sick and tired of the way their religion is being abused.
The islamist imams have had TO Much influence in europe - especially Britain, where the hate speech only rivals the neo-nazis!
We have a deep and seroius problem, that we need to face before its to late: we should isolate the ultra right- left- and islamist ways of living, before they torch all the liberties our grandfathers fought for!
The dream of islamists is to have a state under sharia law - no democracy!
Americans have taken their beatings defending "the free world", and has been laughed at by selfconfident europeans. I guess everybody is re-thinking this these days...
My analysis is; the muslim world just torched the "blind eyed" support they have recieved for years. Tough times are ahead, and europe just had its "wake-up call" about this islamo-fascism, most arab nations are supporting or being controlled by!
We are not dealing with states and the civilized way of communication - we are dealing with a geo-politcal mess of powerplay from a inferior and demolished religion (by years of internal struggle and supression), hijacked by a few anti-democratic islamists, that the moderates is in NO POSITION to control!
The war on terror is a mess - but what is the possibilities for us?
How can we embrace moderate islam, while we fight the brainwashed islamists and their terrorist attacks?
I think the problem is within the structure of islam, and in our simplified ways of dealing with it!
European politics is NOT the way to do it.
Bush is not the way to do it - but how do we kill islamism, without hurting ordinary muslims?
This is not a clash of cultures - its a clash of (I dont know how to express this, but); evolving culture, and regressive culture...
We don't want to go back (islamism), but we want to move forward incorporating islam as any religion. So how do we do it?
By setting up standards that are NOT NEGOTIONABLE: as free speech, free religion, equal rights, womens rights, childrens rights.

Everyone is feeling american these days, because of the way you usually talk about these liberties... we just feel asleep in europe, using the better of 60 years, mending the scars of the last fascist threat: Islamism is the new one (not islam, but islamism!)
We will not accept - we will fight this intolerance!

Believe us!


enon - 2/15/2006

If you look at the sheer statistic you will find out that Denmark has the lowest rate of racists attacks in all of europe. Combined that with what Denmark is doing to contribute around the world, despite its size, you have no reason to go "explore". Why dont you, Henry Levenger and the Canadians go explore on the real issue of these cartoons..


Bus - 2/15/2006

aheem...
Lets listen to this outcry of feeling minor: Islam is faced with serious PR problems; terrorists are hijacking normal followers of this, normally, peacefull religion, but only few muslims defend islam from this fate:
Moderate muslims must unite, to defend their religion towards the infidell cowards of islamism. Its so simple! Stand up for your religion, in a humane and civilized way, and you will have our respect. Its the only way for you to clear the name of islam... stand up - say no to violence, say no to islamism!
Build a tolerant islam, suited for the world of today, or feel the emptiness of the rest of the world turning their backs!

Do something about the "death cult" that hijacked your religion - and we will respect your belief!


Pomerol - 2/15/2006

"perception is more important than reality"

Yes your are right, and that is why Danes should not eat this raw. Danes should instead confront ignorants with facts. At the moment some Danes are actually starting to believe in the out of line debate Bullshit. Now that I find very scary - we are brought up to be democrats - and democrats do not take a bow due to some insubstantial argument set forth by a politician, who thinks he has found Wisdom Valley.


Henry Levenger - 2/15/2006

Well, I kind of agree with the Americans--sadly, perception is more important than reality. Here in Canada, the perception is that you guys are racist. Even your debates are seen as a method to end the violence, rather than an opportunity to explore racism in your country.


Pomerol - 2/15/2006

"I agree with Jerry. You Danes need to fix it, but how?--I don't know. However, I think you need to exhibit caution in your instinct to withdraw aid to the Middle East."

It's not even a topic in Denmark. No one has suggested that we take away the aid. But you are right - we find it rather upsurd to be hated by people, we are trying to help.

About the healthcare in US - make it happen - it's a good idear. Clinton had some good projects - this was one of them.


Lawrence Mackey - 2/15/2006

I agree with Jerry. You Danes need to fix it, but how?--I don't know. However, I think you need to exhibit caution in your instinct to withdraw aid to the Middle East.

I am an American soldier, and when I travel abroad, I am constantly insulted; people have this image that all American soldiers are like those in Abu-Gharaib. Many other soldiers and sadly a MAJORITY of fellow civilians have suggested withdrawing all of our help to these regions (both the Middle East and Europe). They argue that this position would "teach" Europe and the Mid-East how much we do contribute to their societies--financially, culturally, and militarily. We have enough problems at home, and perhaps the extra money could be used for our own good--like free healthcare!!

Yet, I disagree with this belief, and I am scared that the same idea is growing among Danes; they want to teach the Mid-East how much they have contributed, and how much would be lost. You must prevent this message from growing, before it becomes a majority thought like it is becoming in America.


Pomerol - 2/15/2006

"we must ask ourselves, if we are being right with the immigrant discussion in denmark: I think we started right, but forgot to give the moderates a chance, before the extreme left and right started shouting their "them and us"."

I have been asking myself that question many times during the last couple of weeks. To be honest I think it's BULSHITT. The debate hasn't been out of line. A few politicians have shown their albows, but in general I think it has been a pretty reasonable debate. When I read the paper or turn on the TV and listen to some politician from around the world commenting on this very point - I shake my head and think - this person is speaking about a debate he has never heard. He does not know of the danish language and is making a speech about the danish debate in general based upon a few highlights. I must say the reliability of those politicians statements hits rock buttom. And should be categozised as such - Nonsense.
My teachers would flunk me badly, if I didn't have more empirical data to support my views.


Jerry Plainlein - 2/15/2006

I agree that Danes are more to the middle than the U.S., but that doesn't mean you have different problems. Unfortunately, the Danish are going to be hated among the Middle East for years to come, no matter what occurs within the next months. Is it wrong?--absolutely. But Danes need to focus on what is needed to be done now, not debate what has already occurred.

Take it from me, I'm American. I feel very proud of my country, and yet when I travel abroad (especially Europe), I am constantly insulted. Why?--because all Americans are war-hungry, uneducated, and arrogant. It doesn't matter that I am left-leaning, against Bush, and against the Iraq war; all that matters is the perception of Americans, which is probably worse in the Middle East. You Danes have an opportunity to limit the damage that has been done.

In previous posts, Danish citizens have mentioned all the good they have done for the Middle Eastern region, and have asked how those things could be forgotten. Well, the answer is no one cares. I believe that America has done much for the world, yet everyone wants to focus on things we have done wrong. When I traveled abroad, I was amazed by how the media constantly depicted the US in a negative manner (not just in Europe, it seemed everywhere except Asia). Right now, the same attitude towards Danes is happening in the Middle East. Fix it, or you'll be hated as much as Americans for years to come.


USAMA - 2/15/2006

FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS, FUCK ALL AMERICAN AND EUROPEANS,


Pomerol - 2/15/2006

"You have made all Danes, Danish products, Danish companies etc suffer but we are not all to blame."

Henrik no one said you have to accept this image drawn by an upset crowd of muslims surfing on a hatewave. Don't let anyone fool with your mind. You are still the same person, that you were yesterday. All you have to do is to show it to yourself and your surroundings. Last but not least - not even Jyllandsposten can be blamed for the muslim anger management problem. They will have to carry that weight themselves.


Sune Jensen - 2/15/2006

Not all moslims are terrorist. It is the picture the USA and Israël has done. PLO, Black September (Munich-hostages) as some of them but not all


Vik - 2/15/2006

The real funny thing is; denmark is the political picture of "being in the middle". We had no ultra-left or ultra-right, that had definite influence ever: shure, there was the extreme left during the cold war, wanting the socialist revolution. Sure, we have the extreme right, wanting the end of the multi-cultural society... but no matter how much the press tries to define danish policy - they have to accept, that danish policy has ALWAYS been in the middle (its really different from the US, where elections really means a difference)
WE ARE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD - PLEASE UNDERSTAND!
That doesn't mean that we are afraid of challenging taboos and the things hard to discuss - we have in our time, maybe too much: anything has been turned around, mocked, and restated.
I think that the danish society is much free'r than the US, because we dont have their history, with their taboos - but then again, we must ask ourselves, if we are being right with the immigrant discussion in denmark: I think we started right, but forgot to give the moderates a chance, before the extreme left and right started shouting their "them and us".
I do believe we have made mistakes when stating our demands for being in danish democracy - but this situation is absurd: we are the humanistic and free - this attack on the basis of all danish, should be thrown down...
Who attacks us: dictatorships and islamist fundamentalists - I say: go burn yourselves - we've done better than you, we've tried to help your civil society in any way, we helped the poor and the downtrotten, the women suffering under patriachist religion, prisoners of war, prisoners of politics... I demand respect on our principles!

We are Vikings, and if you dont back of - we will put our boats at sea, and come mess you up - you remember?


Goodnight and goodbye...


Henrik - 2/15/2006

If we in Denmark should look at muslims like you look at all Danes then that would make you all a bunch of Terrorists!

You have made all Danes, Danish products, Danish companies etc suffer but we are not all to blame.

Who are you to judge all people of a nation because a news paper publishes 12 pictures that needs to be understood in the context of danish socity? If I was to judge you like that then you all Terrorists.

p.s guess you do not know denmark that well our flag is just as holy as your Profet yet you burn and walk over it shame on you...

H


Bus - 2/15/2006

I've seen muslim cartoons of jews, and the israeli state much worse than the mohammad-cartoons.

The world don't care for you childish demands - every goodwill towards you, has been torched; dont you understand?! You just made your case SO SIMPLE to refuse - you really have nothing; don't you understand?
I'm sorry if you can't see this global blunder of islam... people are shaking their heads in disbelief of your "comic" ways!

Peace be with you, but leave your minority-complex behind when you're dealing with the world and their belief in humankind!


Fazal - 2/15/2006

[Comment removed: Violation of HNN Standards]


Mark Thomas - 2/15/2006

I dont think we shld do this....their anger is justified ..their religion is important to them...n along wid freedom f expression we also stress respect for others religion n culture..Have WE forgotten that....i dont support this!


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/15/2006

Keep buying Danish products.

Especially products by Arla. The company most boycott campaigns are targeting.

Viva to Denmark, and the free world.


John Locke - 2/15/2006

Yes, I have seen them, and while they obviously were not offensive to me, I know that in Islam they would be insulting.

Now, I understand your stances that we cannot lose our principles in order to appease a particular religion. There is a fine line to be drawn, and we must ask where does it end? But you could debate those principles in all aspects of media. Why do we not use images portraying blacks as "dirty niggers", even if it is a joke? Its because we understand they would find offense in that terminology, just like Muslims are offended by cartoons portraying their main prophet as a terrorist. If "nigger" cartoons were posted, I guarentee that there would be some form of boycott taken, although probably not the violence-WHICH I CONDEMN. As I wrote before, I think that extremists are beginning to take over Islam. In the U.S., rightly or wrongly, religious offence is taken into account in most media.

Many people have debated why the West and Islam seem to be dividing, and I believe that the media has a large part (certainly, other aspects like immigration, extremism, War in Iraq, terrorism, etc. have larger roles) in this division. Now, everything can be seen on hundreds of channels, internet sites, and blogs. For instance, do you agree with recent postings of abuses by British and American soldiers that occurred between 2 and 3 years ago? Maybe you do, maybe you don't, but you certainly understand that this will create even greater chaos in that region, and will lead to even more hatred for the West.

Did they have the right to publish these images?----yes.

Should they have, especially at the height of tensions between Islam and the West?----I don't know.


Tho as - 2/15/2006


Why on earth shouldn´t the cartoons
have been published ?

Just one simple question:
HAVE YOU SEEN THEM ?

It's weird that Moslems are offended by some cartoons, one showing a bomb in a turban, when NO Moslems are offended when the bombs go off in the name of Allah in Madrid, Baghdad, London, Bali, Beirut and so on....

Can anybody see the perspective ?


Pomerol - 2/15/2006

"How do we expect the Muslim countries to unite peacefully if we cannot do so ourselves."

I don't think all the muslim countries will unite peacefully.
I'm hoping the muslims in the West will create new lifestyles that makes it possible for them to combine Democracy and Islam. Thousands of muslims have already done just that.

We will always have extreme leftists and rightists. Our main goal must be to keep these parties out in dark. This must be done not with force, but by educating our people.
The leftists and rightists will never unite. I'm not trying to hold on to a a pessimistic view - but wouldn't it be dreaming too much to think the 3. world war won't ever happen. But of course we must do our best to prevent it.


Slater - 2/15/2006

One question: Why SHOULDN'T they have been published?
We all know it was legal, and most of us agree it was the newspaper's right to do it... but a lot of us still seem to think it was morally wrong. Why?

Is it also morally wrong, but legal, to eat pigs and cows, one of which is offensive to muslims, the other worshipped by Hindus?

Is it morally wrong, but legal, to take pictures or make drawings of ANY person, because that is Haram as well?

Is it morally wrong, but legal, for western girls to walk around without veils and burkas, because that offends some Muslims?


I know many people think that JP published the drawings with the INTENT of offending them, but do you KNOW that?

There is a reason we don't have laws against offending people in the west. Because no matter what we do, somewhere out there, there's a lunatic who is offended by it. It is impossible to legislate offending people. Hell, I could start a cult with a couple of friends tomorrow that forbids pants, and then no one can ever wear pants again, in order not to offend us.

Get a freaking grip. If they really, truly believe in that prophet, they would be able to handle a little ridicule. Now we're making up for their lack of faith.


John Locke - 2/15/2006

I am an American-leftist (i hate Bush), who did not support the Iraq war, BUT, I do support the RIGHT to publish these cartoons, and thus SUPPORT THE DANES. While they SHOULDN'T have been published, the news media does have the right to do so, especially since this is a western country. The Muslim boycott of Danish products is also fine by me, but the violence cannot be tolerated.

Unfortunately, I think we are headed towards complete chaos as the extremists on both sides gain momentum, aided by the increased availability of media. Recently, the news showed British soldiers beating Iraqi teenagers, and today, a leftist Australian program released video/photos of Abu-Gharib prisoners from 3 YEARS AGO! These images, combined with continuous coverage of muslim extremist behavior, will only add fuel to the flames, and will lead to increased muslim extremist violence, which in turn, will lead to more extremist right-wing views in the west. The Pakastani violence is getting worse, and these new images/videos will only increase the hatred--ON BOTH SIDES!

We need the moderates on both sides (Muslim and the West) to direct peace, but unfortunately, they're both too scared to so. Thus, more moderates are being pushed in the direction of extremism, and world chaos/war seems to be headed our way.

P.S. In order for the West to unite, the extreme Leftists and Rightists must compromise, which is not likely to happen....How do we expect the Muslim countries to unite peacefully if we cannot do so ourselves.


Pomerol - 2/15/2006

In other words. Muslims must draw their own cartoons. We can't do this job for you, since our understanding of your perspectives is apparently misunderstood.


Pomerol - 2/15/2006

"Christian Series: depicting Jesus in all variations"

Like I have said before Hasan. This has already been done before. And if muslims or non-muslims feel an need to depict Jesus in various way - no problem. Go for it and send me a copy. I would loove to see them. Maybe an erotic cartoon with Jesus and virgin Mary could be a start....

"Jew series: depicting Moses in all variants including bombs."

The Jews are used to the muslim anger. I don't think this would make their blood boil.

"Hitler Series: Hailing hitler during WWII (the german perspective)"

That is not fair to the Germans. This is not a modern German view. The Germans have grown up a long time ago, and they have doing a great job in order to prevent the past from ever repeating itself. Therefore they wouldn't dream of going mad if you feelt a need to make these drawings - they would most likeky be used for educational purposes.

"Holocaust Series: putting forward the views of Holocaust deniers (they also have a right to free speech)."

Why on earth should we draw such a cartoon. Europeans are not denying holocaust - it only seems to be a problem for som muslims nowadays. We have dealt with it, and are doing all we can never to forget the horrors of holocaust.


Mikkel Pind - 2/15/2006

Hasan: Try to understand that the reason JP's article was about Mohammed was because of a particular situation in Denmark. Therefore the pictures were depicting him instead of any one else. It had a purpose that was not offensive! The pictures might have been offensive, but not the purpose.

The reason why other media printed the pictures was so their readers could make up their own mind (know what the case was about) and/or to sympathize with freedom of speech. Again the purpose were all legitimate.

Why don't you make some drawings and make a link here. I will gladly give you feedback on them if you ask me. State the purpose with the drawings so the can be put in a context so that every one can see what it is you want to show.


Pomerol - 2/15/2006

"Thats the trouble with you Europeans. Anthropomorphizing moslems and trying to hold conversations."

Conversation is what democracy is all about. If we are to understand each other, we have to use the word and not the sword.


Democracy is the greatest god, and dialog is his prophet.


Infidel - 2/15/2006

HAHAHAHAHA. buddhist monks burning Thor's hammer.

Hasan, the moslems are at war with the Jews, Christians(USA),post-industrial nihilists (Europeans), atheists (Chinese), buddhists(Thailand), Hindus (India), Animists/christians(sudan/nigeria) and of course peaceful religion itself (shiites/sunni slaughters in Pakistan/iraq). Just ONE major civilization has had the good sense not to let moslems into their society and has managed to enjoy the fruits of enlightenment and advances in science and technology. Japan.

DENMARK.. of all countries? What kind of MORONIC savages would consider DENMARK their "enemy"? the cleanest, least corrupt, most generous nation on the face of the planet? Shouldnt you be thanking Denmark for allowing moslems to even live in their great country?????? While your fellow moslems are burning , destroying and whining and slaughtering, the Danes are providing aid to the arabs-living-in-palestine, chechens and africa and india and..the list goes on and on. A tiny, militarily insignificant nation!

Just WHY are the moslems emigrating to Denmark? reason? There are 57 officially islamic countries in the world. Why aren't moslems emigrating to countries built, run by moslems and islamic "principles"?

More importantly why aren't the Europeans "provoking" the Chinese, vietnamese, african (non-moslem) and indian immigrants? Why only moslems? Becuase, the death cult you call a "peaceful religion" does NOT allow co-existence. Islam can exist only in dominance..its the nature of the "Beast". Any attempts to stop this dominance is immediately considered "oppression". Hence the interminable wars since the insane arab warlord created this cancer. Islam is a curse on the human race, without which modern society can enjoy ALL these advances in science,tehcnology and political enlightenment, in peace. Nazism was a temporary albeit near-fatal aberration in the history of the Germanic/nordic people; but Britain,U.S, Canada, N.Z, Norway, Denmark and even germany itself are now beacons of freedom and hope. Isn't that the VERY reason the moslems are running away from their islamic lands and begging for visas in these countries? There should be a MASS boycott of these infidel embassies. No more islamic applications for Visas as these countries consider the "prophet" to be a lunatic anyway.

No moslem has ever answered teh question of WHY the crusades started in the first place? Why did the arabs occupy christian and jewish holy lands? Judea and the entire region had been jewish/christian for centuries before the lunatic mohammad was even thought of.

Just what were the arabs doing invading FRANCE in the year 732 A.D?

Its just that the arabs and turks have been DEFEATED in their brutal attempts at conquest. You are NOT a "victim" nation. You tried to conquer and were soundly defeated. DEAL with it.


Slater - 2/15/2006

Oh, you mean it. Are you fucking kidding? Who gives a shit what YOU think we should say here?

Part of this freedom were are supposedly fighting over, is the right to say whatever we damn want to - limited only by the law, which does not cover expletives.

If you can't take a couple of swear word without crying, maybe it's time to pack up and move to the Middle East?

Now shut the fuck up.


a - 2/15/2006

anan&#305;z&#305; baban&#305;z siksin ki ben günaha girmeyeyim


Thomas - 2/15/2006


JP&#8217;s cartoons reveal, that the caricature was not a caricature, but a very precise analysis of the generator in many Moslems view of society. The desire to throw bombs against any enemy image.

Should we have respect for this tradition?

Fascism has many disguises, the latest one is Islamism!


erik sander - 2/15/2006

You are perfectly right Hassan.
But I think we have to get it into a context.
First.. some hindu ekstremist must kill a buddist filmmaker. Then some fanatic sikhs must come up with serious death threats to a shintoist, female writer Then , some christian fundamentalist gives the impression, that paintings in jewish museums might offend the Asa-believers (old nordic), with the most severe consequenses, after which Tibetanian monks over all the world burns replicas of Thors hammer and models of Valhalla.From that point, Inuits (some call them eskimos) rises the statues on Easter Island upright again, causing havoc all over the pacific.
If that situation, that context, or just a little bitt of it (the rest will come, believe me) could be made, then cartoonists will have lots of work.
Erik


Mark Linham - 2/15/2006

I'll possibly fucking (intermittently) do that, if you would honor my request to contribute only positive content.

Swear words *are* real words. Plus they would actually be rendered quite powerless (and pointless) if only you silly blue-nosed folks would learn to simply simply ignore them.

In any case, no one on this message board is to be censored. Not by me or you, at least.


hasan - 2/15/2006

Danish Cartoonists may be feeling a bit bored nowadays so i am proposing a new set of cartoons ...This may induce some impartiality for caricaturists so that they dont seem to be targetting muslims alone...

Lets now have a new series of cartoons. All cartoons should be similar to the ones created for Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h)

Christian Series: depicting Jesus in all variations

Jew series: depicting Moses in all variants including bombs

Hindu series: depicting Ram, Seeta or any other (have your pick there are many)

Sikh Series: pick any of the 10 gurus for your series

Hitler Series: Hailing hitler during WWII (the german perspective)

Holocaust Series: putting forward the views of Holocaust deniers (they also have a right to free speech)


Sune Jensen - 2/15/2006

I mean it - please do not swear - do you talk like this in your daily work or at home - please use proper words

Thanks


Bus - 2/15/2006

Mark - please, thats not necessary!


Mark Linahm - 2/15/2006

Should they "pull out" before they cum?


Mark Linham - 2/15/2006

Face it, fella, George W Bush is fucking good ole "prophet" Mohammed in the ass.. and Mohammed likes it! Listen.. I can hear them panting and moaning now!

I think I have a craving for a Danish...


M.T. - 2/15/2006

Never to late to say that you are sorry, to the danes!


Bus - 2/15/2006

We have freedom, you have not - if you dont like freedom; stay in your corner of the world, and we will be just fine in our corner - you know, enjoying free press, free speech, womens rights, childrens rights, religious rights...
You can have your patriarchalistic religion - theres too much wawing the testosterone (read; dick), in the televisions these days... but why dont you send your women - they seem to be fed up with opresssion?!


Mike Klein - 2/14/2006

Proud to Stand With Denmark...

These are exciting times--the battle that has been long fought by the US and Israel against the medieval and genocidal aims of Islamism has opened up another front. But the Danes have never been weak on principle or short on courage. We shall never forget how they were the only people in Europe to save their entire Jewish community by sending them across to Sweden in 1943.

The battle has been joined--let us stand together.

JEG STA MED DANMARK!

Mike Klein
Washington, DC


S Misra - 2/14/2006

Read history. Your "explanation" for why the U.S. got involved in wars in Vietnam, Japan, et cetera, have nothing to do with reality. If you really want to know, and not just bellow, read, for Vietnam, any number of histories and for Japan, read histories by such excellent historians as Gordon W. Prange. Christianity was just not a reason the U. S. fought these wars. It is impossible to correct all your errors. I would have to quit my job and devote myself full time to correcting you, Hasan. Why don't you self correct, as any self respecting person does? I would be embarassed to spout such patently wrong views, exposing my ignorance to the world, Hasan. Redeem yourself and read.


peggy - 2/14/2006

Eman,

You clearly did not read what I said.

I have already studied islam from muslims. I studied it with an open mind. But I also listened to other opinions because that is the only way to arrive at the truth is to know both sides. I weighed both sides and deeply considered everything in my conscience and I concluded that mohammed was not what the islamic propaganda says he is. His actions dont agree with his message. He was a hypocrite.

And yet your advice is to listen only to the people who are the least objective and that way I will know the truth. You are so deep in denial that i will just bet that you continue to insist that i got my information only from islam haters and not from muslims. I got my information from both sides. I studied Christianity the same way and many other religions besides.

I am a fair person and I give everyone a fair chance. Only Christianity represents the truth. I expect that many people would disagree with me on that, but i dont consider this to be just my opinion or preference. I reasoned my way to a moment of decision between islam and Christianity. I couldnt make a final decision. Then I was helped by God to believe in Christ. I know that sounds crazy, but i never believed in anything like that before this happened. I always made fun of people who claimed such experiences. I am still a very skeptical. This experience never happened again and i dont expect it to. What happened was that I was helped to understand and sort everything out like a light came on in which I could really examine all the facts in a way that made my former efforts look like working in the darkness. I could see very clearly why Christ was the truth and why islam is only partial truth. I have already explained my views of why this is above so I dont have to repeat myself. I tested and tested that view for years and it still holds up. i continue to study fairly what moderate muslims say. I listen fairly to all religions and test what they say fairly. I am still convinced that we "see God in the face of Jesus Christ" Noone else can compare.

Wake up and read, dear girl. Read again what I said but this time dont read in the spirit of defensiveness with the conviction that anyone who criticizes islam just doesnt know about it. That is propaganda that you are taught from a vulnerable age. I dont think that way about people who dont believe in Christ. I dont assume that they are just ignorant and haters who just havent been exposed to it. I know that human belief or lack thereof is much more complicated than that. I would rather that someone study my faith by going to both its believers and its critics so that their faith will be truly informed for the day if and when they see the light of Christ.

BTW I aint no brother. Peggy is always a girls name in English. No men are named Peggy unless their parents were cruel :-)




peggy - 2/14/2006

Eman,

You clearly did not read what I said.

I have already studied islam from muslims. I studied it with an open mind. But I also listened to other opinions because that is the only way to arrive at the truth is to know both sides. I weighed both sides and deeply considered everything in my conscience and I concluded that mohammed was not what the islamic propaganda says he is. His actions dont agree with his message. He was a hypocrite.

And yet your advice is to listen only to the people who are the least objective and that way I will know the truth. You are so deep in denial that i will just bet that you continue to insist that i got my information only from islam haters and not from muslims. I got my information from both sides. I studied Christianity the same way and many other religions besides.

I am a fair person and I give everyone a fair chance. Only Christianity represents the truth. I expect that many people would disagree with me on that, but i dont consider this to be just my opinion or preference. I reasoned my way to a moment of decision between islam and Christianity. I couldnt make a final decision. Then I was helped by God to believe in Christ. I know that sounds crazy, but i never believed in anything like that before this happened. I always made fun of people who claimed such experiences. I am still a very skeptical. This experience never happened again and i dont expect it to. What happened was that I was helped to understand and sort everything out like a light came on in which I could really examine all the facts in a way that made my former efforts look like working in the darkness. I could see very clearly why Christ was the truth and why islam is only partial truth. I have already explained my views of why this is above so I dont have to repeat myself. I tested and tested that view for years and it still holds up. i continue to study fairly what moderate muslims say. I listen fairly to all religions and test what they say fairly. I am still convinced that we "see God in the face of Jesus Christ" Noone else can compare.

Wake up and read, dear girl. Read again what I said but this time dont read in the spirit of defensiveness with the conviction that anyone who criticizes islam just doesnt know about it. That is propaganda that you are taught from a vulnerable age. I dont think that way about people who dont believe in Christ. I dont assume that they are just ignorant and haters who just havent been exposed to it. I know that human belief or lack thereof is much more complicated than that. I would rather that someone study my faith by going to both its believers and its critics so that their faith will be truly informed for the day if and when they see the light of Christ.

BTW I aint no brother. Peggy is always a girls name in English. No men are named Peggy unless their parents were cruel :-)






peggy - 2/14/2006

Faith,

You must realize that you live in a bubble where all the information that you can access is strictly controlled. Everything that you learn in school is controlled and you are raised on propaganda.

You must realize that to be peaceful means to always be peaceful not matter the context. The truth doesnt need defending or redeeming. I think that you only apply this to yourself. But the truth should also be applied to mohammed who didnt live the truth. He responded with violence when things were not going his way. He was only peaceful and gentle when he was the winner or when people left him alone. When someone threatened him he fought them and people died who didnt have to if mohammed only trusted in the truth to win without human violence backing it up.

You dont realize this but it was Christians who were first to pray for their enemies and it was muslims that only recently imitated them. There was noone just praying for their enemies in the first years of islam. They were killing their enemies. For 400 years Christians only prayed for their enemies and continued to do so even when our faith got mixed up with the Roman state which was violent and didnt follow the example of the first Christians. Our tradition of praying only for enemies lasted 400 years. islams peaceful period only lasted for a few years and it didnt grow very much until mohammed ran away built up an army and started a war with the Meccans after he had robbed their caravans for many years building his army on stolen goods.

It does not become right to steal for any reason. None. It doenst matter who you are or why you do it. This truth should apply to your prophet and yet muslims excuse him from this truth. You are taught on one hand never to steal and on the other hand that it was ok for mohammed to steal because he was defending islam.

This is a contradiction. Right behavior doesnt change like this. Whatsmore it is not necessary. Other faiths have survived without resorting to any of the things that mohammed did and they faced terrible and ruthless opposition too.

I am praying for you to see the the contradiction which leads to unwholesome confusion which comes directly from the example of your prophet. I pray that you dont get in trouble for coming to this board. It is a very real possibility that someone could be watching your computer. When I first wrote to you I didnt know you lived in SA. I pray also for your safety then.

Remember that the consistent example of peace was Christ. His followers followed that example consistently for 400 years. Christianity spread and succeeded for 400 years without wars or armies. A peaceful start of 400 years! Now that this faith is no longer confused with the state, it has returned to that example in its great majority. Islam hasnt. Its is mostly still violent and threatening when provoked.


peggy - 2/14/2006

Faith,

all your talk of peace is meaningless because of the example of your prophet who did exactly what you are saying that good muslims shouldnt do. Yet he is excused on the on hand and on the other all muslims emulate him. Then muslims act suprised when people follow the prophet and strike back at the people who insult islam and its prophet.

You live in total denial. There is islam talk and then there is islam walk. This follows mohammed who said one thing and then did another. He was not a peaceful man. To say that you must redefine the word "peace" to include robbing others at sword point, waging a war of expansion against people who were just minding their own business, beheading a whole village of Jewish men who were merely suspected of not being loyal enough to the "cause" and enslaving their wives and children, sometimes killing those who ridiculed him, ordering that all of SA be cleansed of non-muslims including Christians and Jews on his death bed, owning slaves, creating thousands, no millions of war widows both in his life time and after etc etc.

I know that you have been brainwashed from birth to not see the contradictions in this example that islam is based on. I know that you have had terror put inside your mind to even question that what he did in his life was not necessary and not excusable. You fear to question why mohammed didnt just trust the power of the truth. The truth doesnt need a sword to survive! Christians were killed by the Roman government for 400 years and yet no Christian formed an army to fight. In 400 years of non-violence, Christianity took over the empire without one battle being fought by them to survive. The Romans were brutal to their oppenents and merciless to anyone accused of treason which meant not worhipping the emperor as a God which thousands of Christians died for refusing to do. All of our saints starting with St Stephen died a true martyrs death. They did not form mobs or resort to robbery or anything. St Peter and St Paul both died without trying to start a war. they died peacefully for their beliefs praying for those who killed them.

Where is this example in mohammeds life. Isnt he your example? All there is is two standards. One is for the muslims who must follow all of mohammeds fine talk when everything is going well and then having to follow his violent example when there is a crisis.

You will say that mohammed endured insults peacefully at first. But then he didnt. He wasnt consistent through his whole life. He didnt die instead of fight. He fought to establish islam in the world. Thousands died and suffered to establish it both muslims and their victims who only wanted to defend their homes.

Islam is a lot of fine talk and then a mixed example. The example is a faulty, inconsistent foundation. It is not wholesome to live a life that denys this and just focuses on the positive of islam and ignores the people who suffered and died for it against their will because they were attacked and besiged by muslims. Millions of people died! Millions more suffered as second class citizens. Who knows how many were forced to flee to avoid living under islam spread by the sword.

There is no excuse for this. You see only what you want to see. Muslims adopt Western original ideas but they havent contributed any. They look at how far ahead the West is in positive and wholesome advances (I exclude the unwholesome ones since I am against immoral progress) and then all of a sudden they find the principle in islam. But if peaceful resistance and praying for our enemies without engaging in violence was an islamic principle as opposed to something you only imitate, then why wasnt a peaceful resistance tradition established in islam first before the West? Instead, islam engaged in violence in response to insult after the example of mohammed until they found that the peaceful resistance worked in the West and discovered that violence response made islam look bad. (I say that only to you muslims who have adopted this attitude). Yet those who use violence "to defend' islam also cite the example of mohammed. They are doing just as he did.


Sune Jensen - 2/14/2006

Ahem - please use proper wordes - do not swear - Who had learnt that kind of language ??? Your mom or your dad ! I had to pay 5 cents for swearing at my parents home when I was a kid and it was parents included.

Thanx


peggy - 2/14/2006

better to deport him! He is a traitor to the nation by deliberately harming its interests. He cannot be a good citizen. Kick him out. Send him back to where life is really hell ie any nation dominated by muslims.


peggy - 2/14/2006

better to deport him! He is a traitor to the nation by deliberately harming its interests. He cannot be a good citizen. Kick him out. Send him back to where life is really hell ie any nation dominated by muslims.


peggy - 2/14/2006

Hasan,

Its been a while since I posted last, but I dont have time to live on this board...

Yes, i do have a mind of my own but lets recall what your original posting was. Its all there in black and white all you have to do is read it. But let me refresh your memory.

You posted something at the beginning about hypocrisy which I wasnt particularly inspired to talk about. 99% of your post was composed of the Robert Fisk article. I read the article all the way through before making a judgement because I although I have no respect for Fisk I have been surprised before by people I dont usually respect. When I finished I concluded that the man had nothing to say as usual and commenced debunking his premise that the West doesnt live its religion while muslims do.

I am still not real sure what he is saying. Its not a very well written or thought out article. Apparently, his beef is western hypocrisy. I believe that I dealt with that by 1) making the argument that the Church and Christians do in fact live their faith and I gave the lack of violence from Christians and the churches willingness to let go of its former large share of the population when it could have refused to give up fighting. In this, Christians follow the non-violent example of Christ. That is living our faith. 2) I took issue with Fisk equating ONE guy in Paris with a whole region going bat shit insane over some cartoons. ONE guy set fire to a Paris movie theater. There wasnt any more violence on the part of millions of Christians who had a problem with the movie. Noone called for a law to force respect for Christianity. Christians boycotted the company that made the film and any related companies. We didnt boycott the entire US, or Hollywood or any other people who werent involved.

The differences are vast. There is no hypocrisy on the part of Christians or the West regarding the Last Temptation of Christ. We lived or faith by protesting peacefully and boycotting only those responsible. To this day, noone fears a Christian response to insult of our faith because we live our faith. I think I have already spoken of why we do not fear insult.

As for the hypocrisy of Europe, he may have a point with Holocaust denial laws. We dont have those in the US nor would most Americans support such laws. America is part of the West and yet Fisk in his usual sloppy way lumped us in with Europe. His argument falls apart when one considers the example of the US where the only limit to free speech is any speech that calls for violence to be done to others or causes a panic as in the famous example of yelling "fire!' in a crowded theater. This does not cover speech which causes insult which leads to a riot since in the US rioters are legally responsible for riots not speakers no matter what they might say.

I could go on but I have more important things to do here and then I got to go. You dont have a leg to stand on in any of your posts that i have read. In contrast, you responded to my reply with nothing but insinuations that I was avoiding the issue. Clearly you live in a dream world where you are the heroic islamic voice of peace and moderation and where noone can answer your arguments. As a result, I think that you see only what you want to see. You didnt really read what I said. You only saw what you wanted to see.


Infidel - 2/14/2006

Thats the trouble with you Europeans. Anthropomorphizing moslems and trying to hold conversations.


peggy - 2/14/2006

sigh. boring!

We've already been over this. That was three years ago and an entirely different context.

No one is afraid to insult Christ. The JP article was a challenge to the fear to speak and draw freely about islamic subjects. This was not as great an issue three years ago.

Get a clue.


peggy - 2/14/2006

I'll insult him as much as I want for as long as i want.

I dont believe he was a prophet. I am under no obligation to respect him.

I wouldnt have deliberately insulted him before you muslims decided to riot all over the world trying to impress your messed up deity and tried to ruin and threaten a whole country for the actions of s few. But now i'm mad.

Congratulations, muslims. You have only increased the desire to insult your damned prophet mohammed without your ridiculous actions.

You guys dont need an image in order to worship him. You worship him without images. I think its very interesting that you are willing to start a war with the west over some ink drawings on paper which couldnt resemble mohammed anyway since there are no likeness of him from the time of his life. But not when your koran was desecrated.

You see what your so-called prophet never told you is that people can worship anything. Banning images does not stop it.

By the way that you ACT, as opposed to all your talk, you clearly worship mohammed, the koran and the system of islam. These are more important to you than being just to innocent people of Denmark. They are more important to you then the lives and property of others. You have made idols of these things because they are more important to you than acting like civilized people and letting others live in liberty. The definition of idolatry is to make more of some created thing than you make of your duties to God and man.

I see you worship these things, you idolators. Calm down and repent of your actions and act like grown ups and then we will respect you. I will never respect millions of "children" having a temper tantrum over some cartoons.


Pomerol - 2/14/2006

Well kind of hard for you to fuck a danish freedom, you have never tasted is it not....

What is your definition of "EVIL" and "Freedom"?


sven - Danish - 2/14/2006

Mille Mortensen has a right to express her wiew at the situation in Denmark. this right is exactly what we are fighting for. She has my full respect.
I must say that I know that a lot of danes share her wiew.
But even when we quarrel over this issue, we listen to each other , and there is a basic respect for another point of wiew. The problem her is, that we are the only part in this conflict that is reacting like this....


afshagar - 2/14/2006

FUCK YOUR FREEDOM ASSHOLE SON OF THE
evil ,you don't know about Freedom and you talk about freedom fuck your danish freedom


Bus - 2/14/2006

Unite, Abdool?

The only thing that can unite the arab world, is a simple cartoon - not much to build the future takeover of the world on, now is it?

Get democracy before your belief ends on the scrapyard of history - you know, its possible to combine islam and democracy, as seen by many good people of islam, living in the west!

I think THAT idea is growing after this childish show of religious riot! That'll be the end of all the crazy islamist imams - the worlds a better place without them!

Peace!


Sherwood Baker - 2/14/2006

Hey Dane, I couldn't agree with you more! I have started driving my automobile when absolutely necessary. I have cancelled a trip across the country and will not use gasoline unless absolutely necessary. SO to all of you Islamists out there, up yours!


Europe - 2/14/2006

Hell no - WE WILL STAY THERE - help them to democracy: everybody has, in the last few weeks, seen what dictator-run countries and medieval readings of islam can do! Its a brainwash combination...

Free speech and free countries for all - the idea of Umah, is a fascist dream that must be thrown down at sight!


Mikkel Pind - 2/14/2006

The Danish Ministry of Defence has not heard anything yet so it might be a little early to post this as a fact...


Mikkel Pind - 2/14/2006

Well I am happy about the support from the US. But the lack of papers printing these cartoons in the US and the fact that the official US thinks the cartoons should not have been printed troubles me. Representatives from the US are saying that in terms of handling a multicultural society they are more than a hundred years ahead... In one way they are right (strict immigration rules has helped the US get mostly people interested in assimilating), but in one way they are not (in my opinion). Well obviously a lot has to do with not dealing with sensitive taboos of color, mexican immigration etc. The freedom of speech in the US is obstructed by these taboos, so in my eyes, it is the US, that is years behind in the pusuit of "The freedom of speech"!

Read what Ayaan Hirsi Ali said the other day on the cartoon subject.

http://www.welt.de/z/plog/blog.php/the_free_west/the_free_wests_weblog/2006/02/10/the_right_to_offend



Sune Jensen - 2/14/2006

The Basra City want the 550 danish soliders to pull out NOW. Argument: the drawings and a apolise from the Danish PM.


Slater - 2/14/2006

You people are TOO MUCH! (No, not Muslims in general, but the unfortunately way too many complete ignorants among them).

Do you even listen to the arguments against you, or are you so blind to the ways of others, that you truly see a couple of innocent drawings as worse then torching embassies, burning of flags and threats of violence and murder to westerners?

Get a fucking grip!


Pomerol - 2/14/2006

I have only got one thing to say. Go back to school all of you. This is just too much nonsens in one single thread. I believe nor Allah or the European fathers of democracy had these evil thoughts in mind.


6 6 6 - 2/14/2006

muslim threats like purile child ....

your's is coming muslim -wait to see and know your own hell - on 06 06 06


Pomerol - 2/14/2006

You are crying about the West not recognising Islam in the ways you would us to recognise it. But how do you suppose we all unite in the name of humanity, if you keep on considering us to be the big bad wolf?


AmericansSupportIsrael - 2/14/2006

Good information!! Thank you!!
I will use it and pass it on to as many as possible of the millions Americans who Stand with Israel!


Abdool - 2/14/2006

Oh Muslims! Unite against the INSULT on our beloved
Nabi Muhammad
(sallalahu alihe wasalam)

Remember to BOYCOTT ALL DANISH PRODUCTS


Abdool - 2/14/2006

Oh Muslims! Unite against the INSULT on our beloved
Nabi Muhammad
(sallalahu alihe wasalam)

Remember to BOYCOTT ALL DANISH PRODUCTS


Slater - 2/14/2006

I'll have to agree there. I'm quite disappointed with the self-proclaimed "Land of the Free".

My arse. Apparently this freedom is only worth fighting for when THEY need help.


David Gerstman - 2/14/2006

It's well and good to fight the recently organized Arab/Muslim boycott of Denmark, but there's been an organized boycott by the Arab world of Israel for 5 decades.
One way to fight it is to look for goods made in Israel. A particularly useful site in this regard BuyIsraeliGoods.org. Or just do a search on "buy Israel" and you'll get a number of other sources.
One unique such enterprise is Ahava products that features cosmetics made from the Dead Sea. Also if you are buying generic pharmaceuticals there's a good chance they were made in Israel because Teva is the world's largest manufacturer of generic drugs.


devoat--Muslim - 2/14/2006

Stupid jew, stupid christian, there is only one...Allah..
Burn in hell, death on one your, curse your familly, and all it's past genrations,,, burn sons and daugthers of pigs.


JEW - 2/14/2006

so true,,,,,,,,,,,


gunhoe..muslimkiller - 2/14/2006

F(_)( K 'em
katch'em n' kill'em


WiTcH - 2/14/2006

http://www.tanga-perlas.zzesp3.com ** http://www.amateyr.zzesp3.com ** http://www.anal-infantil-sex.zzesp3.com ** http://www.spashemales.zzesp3.com ** http://www.relaos-desvirgadas.zzesp3.com


POLO - 2/14/2006

Dear Hasan...

Offcause Hindus eat beef, and pork. as do many muslims eat pork, and drink beer. These people are called moderates. They are not religius in the insane way. They are part of a religion, because it is their country, and\or famillies background, their inheritage.

So please take the needle out of your arm and wake up and smell the roses.
Because yor are clearly in deniyal...
Religion in its fundementalist form is bad, no matter who you are or whar you pray at\too.
It´s just a fact that in the muslim countires, because of islams strong code of rules, the quran, people are more religius, reed insane...

And why are most muslim countries poor... No education.. Enlightenment.. We need a new revelution, like in france, where they took all the people at power, out in the streets a beheaded them( this time not realy behead them, but strip them of power), and created a new free republic...


stepper - 2/14/2006

The US support to Denmark- too little and too late!


polo - 2/14/2006

Dear Hasan...

Offcause Hindus eat beef, and pork. as do many muslims eat pork, and drink beer. These people are called moderates. They are not religius in the insane way. They are part of a religion, because it is their country, and\or famillies background, their inheritage.

So please take the needle out of your arm and wake up and smell the roses.
Because yor are clearly in deniyal...
Religion in its fundementalist form is bad, no matter who you are or whar you pray at\too.
It´s just a fact that in the muslim countires, because of islams strong code of rules, the quran, people are more religius, reed insane...

And why are most muslim countries poor... No education.. Enlightenment.. We need a new revelution, like in france, where they took all the people at power, out in the streets a beheaded them( this time not realy behead them, but strip them of power), and created a new free republic...


S Misra - 2/13/2006

Unlike you, my Hasan, I need noone to fight for me. And the appropriate place to "fight" or, really, to reason, is in dialogue. I, Misra, am your greatest nightmare, a person who has read and studied Islam, philosophy, other religions, and cannot be fooled by ahistorical nonsense. Of course, Hasan, I could also be your friend, except you have a prediliction for insults, bad jokes, and incredibly bad history. Truth is a friend, and bigotry, blindness to the viciousness of the so-called prophet and to the Koran's violent bent, can only keep you unenlightened. Try Jesus; he would never strap on a bomb for some gutter reward in Islamic "heaven" where Muslim men, unable to control their sexual urges here on Earth, are promised by a bizarre diety the continued degradation of the other sex. Actually, Hasan, free women are your greatest fear. Keeping your mother, your sisten, your grandmother, your daughter ignorant, uneducated, under personal tents is how you treat your own; what can anyone else expect? Only a coward opresses women. Only a coward uses weapons. Only an abject coward cheers on killers, as you did in at least two other posts, while sitting in the relative comfort of their own home. Hasan, Islam subjugates women; and, actually, there is no such thing as "Islam," again, only Sunni and Shiite, both of whom happily murder and torture each other, as you have for hundreds of years. What can the rest of us believe when Tweedledee is in a perpetual slap and kill fest with Tweedledum?


S M isra - 2/13/2006

It is not my Savior, Jesus, who promises gutter rewards, it is your Mohammed who promises pain to women in the degraded Muslim heaven, where one murderous boor can annoy and hurt many a woman. Of course, all Muslim nations treat women like dirt and are, apparently, populated by men who are unable to control their libido (that is sexual urges to your, Hasan). It is Mohammed that marries a child, the definition of pedophilia. Compare that to Jesus, who taught us to love even our enemies, never to wield a sword. Hasan, your fatuous nonsense notwithstanding, I feel quite sorry for you as you live in darkness and can only defend it with insults. Hindus marry one woman for life, you Muslims throw away your women by saying I divorce you three times, and hurt one wife by betraying her in adultery with more than one woman. In your primitive barbaric lands, you treat women like dirt, so your nations can never rise for no nation becomes great keeping one half of itself under its grimy knees.


S Misra - 2/13/2006

What a rip roaring wit you are Hasan! With intellectuals such as you are, I am sure all the bright and shining examples of human civilization, nations such as the powerful Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan will soon outshine us all. Keep calling names, Hasan. It confirms you as less than adult. You still have not responded to a single point of mine Hasan. My you are crude; does this honor your beloved Prophet. Is this how Mohammed taught you to speak? You're getting paranoid, Hasan, for I am not posting as BUS. Worry less about the messenger, and more about the message...this is a key rule of logic. You do know what logic is don't you, Hasan my dear? It is very interesting that you would say you have taken my hymen Hasan, as I am a man. Taken with your rabid anti-homosexual statements, Freud would wonder whether you have some unresolved sexual identity issues. You say you know what an infidel is, but first and foremost, an infidel is one who does not act with fidelity to one's faith. I am quite sure that whatever the shortcomings of Mohammed, he would not advise such as you to speak with such crudity. You are an infidel, Hasan, you do not practice your faith with fidelity. Less bile more intellect, Hasan. Your friend...


S Misra - 2/13/2006

So now your intellectual foundation is some frothing at the mouth politician, some justifier of killing civilians. Hasan, the only thing your posts convince us of is that like the dog that barks loudly, you are no real threat. It takes little to get Muslims angry. After all, Muslims hate each other first and foremost. Shiites kill Sunni and Sunni kill Shiites. There is no Islam, Hasan, except in the maudlin sentiments of backseat "Islamish" cheerleaders.


S Misra - 2/13/2006

Sorry Hasan. I am a mere doctoral student. What do I know. You, oh great Hasan, are a true intellect, though, I must say, your reply here is incoherent. Idi Amin is a Muslim, and he was given shelter by Saudi Arabia. Any criminal, however vile, is given shelter in the holy land of Arabia, but, I am sure you are convinced that Muslims are virtuous. I've read enough books on Hitler to last me a lifetime. I think he would happily enslave or kill brown people with names like "Hasan." Hasan, I cannot help but note that you never respond coherently to any arguments, you just name call. Poor Hasan, are you the product of a good Islamic education? Try enlightenment. Asserting I have no argument is not an argument. It is, however, the equivalent of the king who wore no clothes who tried to convince all others that he was attired in the best of clothing. Sorry, Hasan, you are naked. And, dearest Hasan, there are no "Muslims," only Shiite or Sunni, both of whom happily kill, knife, shoot, bomb, and maim each other, all for the sake of 72 hymens. I sense you will never earn those virgins Hasan. You are a back line cheerleader, fearful for yourself, cheap with others' lives. Earn your Muslim heaven Hasan, kill and be killed joyfully, as your Koran teaches. Now, remember Hasan, never respond to any of my arguments, simply continue to call names, write incoherent arguments, make lame jokes, and refer us all to racist sites and authors, as you do in another post. Hasan, try philosophy. I know to be a Muslim means not to think freely, but take a walk on the wild side (I here refer to your rabid hate of homosexuals in another post---by the way, seek therapy for your own repressed inclinations) and try thinking freely. Don't be afraid. You might even become enlightened, seek to respond to arguments coherently, learn to capitalize, and otherwise become a light unto the world and not a force of darkness. Be a little humble, like Socrates, know that you do not know, grow up, and be less certain of your own perfection. If your arguments are anything like your grammar and style, you are in dire need of a systematic and scholarly and structured education. Poor Hasan! Always a victim in search of victims.


S Misra - 2/13/2006

Poor Hasan, having a hissy fit and calling names is not a sign of intelligence nor of wisdom. And, further, misspelling names is what little spoiled children do. Is this the best you are capable of. Your website is a racist one, Hasan, and I am quite sure they have no great love of people named "Hasan." I, on the other hand, have only taken several graduate level courses on anti-Semitism, and have read multiple histories of anti-Semitism such as the 1993 Geschwister-Scholl Prize winning work by Wolfgang Sofsky, an associate professor at the University of Gottingen, or Leon Poliakov, another real historian. Well, I still think, poor Hasan, and I do pity you since I do value intelligent dialogue and hope one day you can argue the facts and not your hates, that you are simply a violent person hiding far behind the front line fighters, a coward in wolf's ears, strutting and preening your hate. You simply sound foolish. Hasan, you too can become educated. Indeed, I believe I can defend Islam better than you. With defenders such as you, Islam is in grave trouble. Try less name calling, and sad little threats, such as I need surgery, which I am quite sure you would not do, but would cheer the Muslim Mengele who would. Reason, Hasan, not hate. Think. I know it is hard. It takes work. You must read real history and not your propaganda and screeds. After all, poor poor Hasan, the Jewish faith is the father of the Muslim faith, without which the meteorite in Mecca, the idol of Islam, would go back to being the pagan idol it once was. You cannot comment on 9/11 because you resort to incoherent and spittle-flicking arguments on all other topics. I mock your arguments Hasan, but, remember, Jesus of Nazareth loves you, as do I, and we await your enlightenment to reason and to nonviolence. No more jokes, Hasan, please, there is nothing worse than a joke that falls flat nor anything more pathetic than the bad joke teller who waits, while the crickets chirp, for laughter.


Gary - 2/13/2006

Quote: "IS IT A BATTLE? HMMM SO WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FIGHTING HERE? I THOUGHT a few good men wanted A CHAT..."

Well, it felt like a battle, perhaps like those which take place in the boxing ring. If I offended you, I apologize for my hasty choice of words.


Luther - 2/13/2006

1st sorry my english bad, I just want to comment all eastern talk about moslem (Islam). You are think that Islam is a bad religion.that is a big mistake if you say that. If you want to know about islam, you must learn that religion to moslem people who has knowledge about islam. So you can know that all you say is wrong. Western mass media is not fair in give the information about Islam and often give the wrong news about that religion to destruct and destroy Islam with many wrong perspective. In INdonesia the minority like Christian are save and comfortable stay and live in the moslem community, the opposite if moslim is the minnority in a country they hasbeen many bad think from the majority.
thank


Gary - 2/13/2006

Quote: "what is the relevence of your arguments in this thread. Or are you posting in the wrong thread?"

Well, it's all Just a little thing about Islam, isn't it.


Pomerol - 2/13/2006

Well maybe this letter isn't really addressed primarily to the one you suppose should be the receiver...


Pomerol - 2/13/2006

Well I don't think Hasan is trying to do any spin. He is just showing us another perspective. And maybe if we listened just for a little while instead of fighting back, we would in fact be able to communicate a lot better tomorrow.


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/13/2006

The following announcement was signed by 41 of the top Muslim clerics today. I translated parts of it in the name of fairness (from the Arabic version).
--------------------------------------

http://www.forbes.com/business/commerce/feeds/ap/2006/02/08/ap2508350.html

http://www.alarabiya.net/Articles/2006/02/13/21110.htm (Arabic version)

- The Denmark incident is a crime against Islamic holly beliefs and is unacceptable.

- We support the Islamic nation that stood up for our prophet.

- We call upon Denmark to listen to the moderate voices which is asking for a condemnation of publishing the cartoons.

- We would like to affirm that freedom of speech is guaranteed under Islam as long as no insult is committed.

- That said, we would like to ask Muslims to practice self control, and obey Islamic teachings. Supporting our prophet does not happen by contradicting his teachings.

- We would like a UN resolution criminalizing the act of insulting our prophet or any God-sent prophet.

--------------------------------------

This is obviously a very civilized way to deal with the situation, but I still don't see any apology in it.

I think recognizing a crime without punishing it is good, but not enough.


Pomerol - 2/13/2006

"Better argument, please... I think they took the easy way: You know, its a corporate thing!"

Well Bus it is what CNN presented to their viewers themselves. You might believe it is just plan old bullshit -but think about it. I would have taken it into consideration myself, if I had a major part of my business placed in the ME. That doesn't make it right - but it makes sense.


Infidel - 2/13/2006

What is it with these muslims and the whining about crusades? Crusades were an effort to ROLL BACK the arab/islamic imperialism. Why did the arabs take over the holy land, considering their homeland is arabia?

By the way, just WHAT were the moslems doing near Toulouse france, when they were crushed by Charles Martel? this was in 732 A.D. A thousand years before the so-called western imperialism was even thought of.
HELLO?


Bus - 2/13/2006

The reporter thing is just wrong: danish press was all the time present. And dont tell me CNN have taken their chances in warzones before!

Better argument, please... I think they took the easy way: You know, its a corporate thing!


Bus - 2/13/2006


Hasan - pick up your brain!

I think the west is well aware of its blunders of imperialism and cold war: If we are going to have a dialogue, please put some kids through university, and not religious school - cause there are not really many to discuss with, that doesn't seem like they've been more or less brainwashed!
We have a long a proud history of free discussions and protests in the west - and our societies grow by that...what have you got?


M.T. - 2/13/2006

Daniel Fried, Assistant Secretary of State
for European & Eurasian Affairs - was the one delivering this nights better news...


Pomerol - 2/13/2006

Ensan for the most part I agree. But CNN has stated themselves, that their reporters safety played a big role in the their decision not to show the cartoons. Another aspect is the riots it could have created within these countries.


hasan - 2/13/2006

Quote from CBC news article:

"He said news organizations are more than willing to publish items that Christians find offensive because Christians only react by writing a letter to the editor.

"They don't bomb embassies and behead journalists," Levant said."

what is the relevence of your arguments in this thread. Or are you posting in the wrong thread?

I havent mentioned the crusades and the genocide conducted by Hitler and by USA on Japan , vietnam ...all in the name christianity...do you know ANTI-SEMITISM is a by product of christianity most popularly used by HITLER or your history books omit such truth.


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/13/2006

Good spin Hasan. NATO goes all the way around the globe to kill innocent Afghans, right?

NATO has weapons that can destroy the whole middle east from the comfort of their chairs.

The reason they sent young men and women to Afghanistan to fight the war is to make sure they only kill the terrorists. Killing randomly is something you do pretty well, but something we do no practice.


hasan - 2/13/2006

"Mohammed preaches violence." here you go again more sweeping statements...if i say misra is an indian extremist then what...will it make you one...YOU STARTED BY SPREADING OUT OF CONTEXT QUOTES...its like saying claiming NIGHT before DAY...you murdered thousands of jews during WW2 and waged CRUSADES against muslims and now you are at it again. Why do you even try to think. No use...


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/13/2006

An apology is not enough. Those who commited these crimes should be arrested and charged.

Anything less is just childs play.


Gary - 2/13/2006

Quote from CBC news article:

"He said news organizations are more than willing to publish items that Christians find offensive because Christians only react by writing a letter to the editor.

"They don't bomb embassies and behead journalists," Levant said."

Get the point, Hasan?


Ensan 7orr (free human) - 2/13/2006

American, Canadian and British news outlets are not scared of Muslims. They simply did not want to inflame this issue further. It’s also called, PC, or political correctness.

Do I agree with their decision? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

It sends the wrong message that if a bunch of fanatics burn embassies and threaten free people, we will be phased. Isn't that what terrorism is all about?


hasan - 2/13/2006

"Hasan, you are fighting a losing battle here"

IS IT A BATTLE? HMMM SO WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FIGHTING HERE? I THOUGHT a few good men wanted A CHAT...

So you are filling in for Misra...or just blind man walking...your in the wrong area i think!


M.T. - 2/13/2006

The american vice (deputy?) minister of foreign affairs, have just concluded on the situation on behalf of the US: Its no longer a matter of drawings, but about who's the better, democray or dictatorship, to show acceptance towards freedom and religion. He states that, in the countries rioting now, there is NO tolerance!
He states, that denmark has taken a beating, it hasn't deserved (counting denmarks long history of multicultural society, and helping the poor of the world).

In the papers tonight, as well, J.M.Barroso, Chief of the EU-Comission supports denmark 'unconditionally no negotiation over freedom of speech'

And I will just end this evenings broadcast by stating; Muslim world - if you claim to be the religion of peace; you owe the danes an apology - your religious inflamed rioting and burning, just made it clear to anybody, what kind of dangers and medievalism the world is facing these days!

Its not to late to say you're sorry!


Gary - 2/13/2006

Quote: "You can recreate your beautiful statues but can you re-create human life! By the way US and allies have killed far more than WTC!"

And how many have been butchered throughout history in the name of Islam?


hasan - 2/13/2006

Misra your obsessed by hymens i just answered your post on one section now its in the other...Are you a pervert? As for islam i think you know nothing so discussion is futile with barren minds like yours...we could have converted all hindus and spanish to islam when we had the power but we didnt. Peace onto you that is what we give to all. Even to people like you who spit hatred and venom but the problem is that you guys are obsessed by hymens so go and bust a few hindu hymens? That's what your good at in india? Do you want facts...hmmm...


hasan - 2/13/2006

S Misra not 72 hymens.....71 i broke yours just now...wink wink...now stay calm and hold your breath cause i'm about to reveal a big secret...

"Yes, I know what infidel means."

when i mentioned infidel in my post i asked "mr BUS" as all other sane minds picked but not you. EITHER YOU ARE ALSO POSTING AS 'BUS' OR YOU HAVE FELT THE BURNING SENSATION SOMEWHERE ON YOUR RECENTLY BUSTED HYMEN...
MISS-RA


hasan - 2/13/2006

Misra! You need surgery!

"you are anti-Semites" you have any idea about the background of anti-semitism? i pretty much doubt it!

"How the Sunni and Shiite cry for their dead"...do you even know what hes talking about and what you are trying to infuse...wake up!

if you want to know more about 9/11 and the other side of the story check this website http://www.apfn.org

i cannot, at this time, comment on 9/11 its just that miss-ra needs correction now and then...


hasan - 2/13/2006

misra you dont have any argument what relevence deoes idi amin has here? your a hopeless case...what about hitler...who was he ? go to school!


hasan - 2/13/2006

u seem to be obsessed by me misra. your indian mentality will never change always following...bark bark ...following again...some things will never change...no matter what the world thinks you guys keep on dreaming....islam is the fastest growing religion with the best tolerance record now dont ask for facts you'll be ashamed...more christians...aetheists and hindus are converting to islam than the number of ex-muslims you have managed to create. have you ever heard of christian extremism? you call yourself a christian....better tell the truth!


hasan - 2/13/2006

fox is a biased jewish channel. Most of american media is under jewish control. what else can you expect!


hasan - 2/13/2006

I know misra...you can switch religions when it comes to hating muslims. 5,000 Muslims killed, 50,000 made homeless, hundreds of mosques, and dozens of hotels, shops, and villages destroyed during riots in the Indian province of Gujrat. Former Chief of the Indian Navy, L. Ramdas, in an open letter to the Indian Prime Minister, Atal Behari Vajpayee, has condemned the anti-Muslim violence in India describing it as genocide and a "pogrom." NOW MISRA YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF.

"... The religion based on caste system has annihilated millions of Dalits over the centuries. About three million Dalit women have been raped and around one million Dalits killed from the time of Independence."
[Dr. Tulsiram, "The Pioneer", 30 Jan. 2000]

I think this is enough for you...you'd be better off going back tto your REAL "HINDU Religion" instead of hiding behind the cchristians and using them at this ttime...chirstians can never put such lame comments and in such a vulpinous tone. Do you have a history....hmmm


hasan - 2/13/2006

I believe these statements were shown by an extremist media group. let me give you the correct sentences and you can also check, if you like, for their authenticity.

"The leader of Hezbollah, heading a march by hundreds of thousands of Shiite Muslims on Thursday, said U.S. President George W. Bush and his secretary of state should "shut up" after they accused Syria and Iran of fueling protests over cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.

Sheik Hassan Nasrallah urged Muslims worldwide to continue demonstrations until there is an apology over the drawings and Europe passes laws forbidding insults to the prophet.

"Defending the prophet should continue all over the world. Let Condoleezza Rice and Bush and all the tyrants shut up. We are an Islamic nation that cannot tolerate, be silent or be lax when they insult our prophet and sanctities."

"We will uphold the messenger of God not only by our voices but also by our blood,"

"There can be no settlement before an apology and there can be no settlement before laws are legislated by the European Parliament and the parliaments of European countries," he said.


Nasrallah said that if the controversy touched on Jews or Israel the West would have reacted differently and quickly.

"Is the Islamic world less important that a bunch of Zionists? We cannot acquiesce to this."

Your statements are a bit inflamatory as all this guy wants is an apology and the laws enancted to protect minority rights. See it does'nt look that bad when you have the complete picture and the truth. Live..... and Let us live in peace.


Pomerol - 2/13/2006

"The cartoons have become more and more disgusting. Pretty hard to digest!"

Hasan

would it be wrong of me to say that the cartoons are only a symbol of the conflicts that have emerged since 9/11. And therefore the problem is not really the cartoons - the problem goes far and beyond these cartoons - or what do you think?


Pomerol - 2/13/2006

"I think the west has been drawing cartoons of our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) for a long time and muslims have shown tolerance"

Hasan the drawings in Jp were the first drawings I have ever seen in western media. After this conflict has started I have seen several other drawings - also quite alot drawn by muslims.


Pomerol - 2/13/2006

I just fell across this statement by a Canadian publisher defending his right to re-publish the cartoons:

Added Levant: "I'm not Oprah Winfrey. My job is not to bring people together. I'm the publisher of a news magazine and I want my readers to have the right to judge for themselves."

I think the he states some of the truth, although not all of it as I see it:

The Truth is not One - but many. And THE Truth depends upon our view. When politicians around the world are saying these drawings are clearly provocative they forget one thing. The are provocative from their point of view, but their point of view isn't an objective point of view. It isn't nessecarily The Truth - it's like I said only their views. How do we decide who is right then - well just like always history is written by the most powerful nations. And if the powerful nations fail in continuing to prosper history can be re-written again. No problem. Powers can erase even wars if they like - and that is why we must not let ourselves be controlled by these powers. Doesn't matter if they are represented by infidels or muslims - we have to be very critical and very aware of what is going on at all times. I think that one way to keep us all in shape is Democracy.


hasan - 2/13/2006

Misra ... this board is filled with your hate speeches which have no meaning. William Campbell have been openly defeated and all his illogical statements negated succesfully all thanks to Allah Almighty. You talk about "TRINITY" are you out of your little mind...the concept of trinity has long been REMOVED by Christian priests and scholars from Bible. THANX TO THEM... THEY HAVE INCHED CLOSER TO QURAN NOW. ;)


hasan - 2/13/2006

I think the west has been drawing cartoons of our Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) for a long time and muslims have shown tolerance...as most were not that offensive so they controlled their emotions...plus...not many people know of their publication but its different..internet, blogging and rapid information flow to top it imams and other muslims are more aware of their surroundings and the importance of information. The cartoons have become more and more disgusting. Pretty hard to digest!


Gary - 2/13/2006

Quote: "you have hatred in your blood and you cant do anything about it."

Hasan, you are fighting a losing battle here with your blind ignorance of both historical facts and the teachings of your Koran. Give it a rest and find something useful to do.


hasan - 2/13/2006

buddy! i think your a bit confused. please dont take me wrong but you remind me of miss-ra...first of all hindus eat BEEF & i have even seen them eat PORK in USA (for social networking purposes) so that bit is not true. "old an beautifull statues" so this gives NATO the right to kill afghans cause they destroyed statues. I think NATO is far worse a criminal than those who destroyed stone figures. You can recreate your beautiful statues but can you re-create human life! By the way US and allies have killed far more than WTC!


hasan - 2/13/2006

mmm....aaaaa....aaaaaa....i'll get back to you on that! ;)


hasan - 2/13/2006

The guy abviously wanted to cool off! Sorry about that!


hasan - 2/13/2006

Now missy i think your libido has all dried up and your on mad rampage...once you get your eyesight back you'll see what the americans have done to muslims in iraq, now the british soldier movie is out too. All you can give is cheap talk cause you have hatred in your blood and you cant do anything about it.


BMC - 2/13/2006

"Don't tell me the CBC respects religion. It's afraid of one religion."

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/02/13/cartoons060213.html

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060213/cartoons_060213/20060213?hub=TopStories

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060213.CANCARTOON13/TPStory/National


S Misra - 2/13/2006

What you personally choose to believe about your religion is not the same as what your religion actually says.
To danish_us: Words have meanings. Racism has a specific meaning. So does ethnocentrism. You broaden the definition of racism to the point of meaninglessness. Second, toleration is the least one should expect of others. The most one should expect is the ability to reason nonviolently. Simply live and let live allows any nasty idea to coexist with us because we refuse to contest it. The first dialogue of Socrates, Euthyphro, clearly shows us how religions may be questioned nonviolently. Third, what Christians say and what Christ says are different, just as what a nonobservant Jew or Hindu says about his or her religion is not what the books sacred to him or her say. Simply, for example, ignoring the fact that in Exodus Jews are "commanded" to burn villages, kill inhabitants, keep virgins, and so forth does not make it right. Neither is it right when Mohammed in the Koran advocates beating those who sin. Fourth, questioning your religion is not the same as attacking it. Just as a Hindu should question the morality of the caste, as Buddha did or as Gandhi did, rejecting caste, a Jew must question why they are allowed to kill non-Jews so freely in their most sacred books. If this does not make you feel "happy" and if this is an uncomfortable thing to do, that is just too bad. If believers don't question, they will punish nonbelievers who do. Lastly, yes, there are good people everywhere, but rational and good is better. And it still does not address the fact that you may be personally good, but believe in a reprehensible set of ideas or beliefs. I am sure there were good Nazis like Oscar Schindler, but Nazism is vicious and the inherent goodness of a few does not wipe out the viciousness of the ideas. I am sure there are nonviolent Muslims, Jews, and Hindus, but they cannot escape the inherent violence of their religious works. Don't be afraid to question your so-called "holy" books. Why can't they be questioned? There are a number of religions, including Judaism and Hinduism, and Paul in the New Testament, that prohibit the marrying of nonbelievers. It just doesn't make it right because a saint or a prophet said it. Another thing: I am a Christian, I believe in the words of Jesus, not in Christians such as St. Augustine who justified the nasty notion of "Just War." Yes, I married a Christian before I became a Christian, when I was really unconcerned with religion. When I was young, I was a believing Hindu. I changed because I studied nonviolence and discovered that Socrates was correct, that violence does away with reason, then the vicious and physically and mentally stronger win. I found only one religion that is nonviolent and is coherent, and that only in the words of its founder in the four gospels, Jesus. My parents care deeply for my wife. You are right, among quite a few in India, who are Hindus, they marry not only other Hindus, but within their caste. This is simply wrong. By the way, our family has a number of Muslim friends, including one who was a right decent man, who helped start a mosque. That does not make his religion right. Caste has no moral justification. You may not like it, you may not want to hear it, but you, as a human being, have an obligation to question, to think, to criticize brutality and brutal thinking. Of course, this is dangerous. Socrates, after all, was killed by the many on the charge of corrupting the morals of the young, of being less than faithful to the Olympian gods. Toleration is meant to stop people from thinking and just to get them not to kill eachother. Intelligent and moral people reason together, they don't ignore each other. A friend corrects a friend (and all are brothers, regardless of what some religions say), and does not let him or her go on believing in ideas and beliefs that are inherently illogical, unkind, or immoral. Mohammed was violent. So was Joshua and so was Moses and so are the religious dieties of Hinduism and a number of other religions. Don't be afraid to face the insults, threats, and hurt feelings of the misled. Gently an firmly reason with them.


Kim Hansen - 2/13/2006

Hey Melissa. We have an american consept /store in Denmark right next to Tivoli in Copenhagen, called Build a bear store. A verry funny and unique way to make your own bear. But as i sead it is an american store in copenhagen and you can also buy the Teddys in america online.See www.buildabear.com

Regards Kim Hansen
Denmark


Pomerol - 2/13/2006

"can the mocker be accused of incitement?"

Just of the top of my head - I do not think a mocker (the infidel - in this case I guess) can be accused of the actions/incitement committed by someone else (the muslim). We are all responsible for our own actions, and if we are "victims" of mocking, we have a choice in relation to how we choose to respond.
I am the one who chooses how to react in relation to the mocking - that is out of the mockers control. Unless of course I'm not a free person, that can take actions into my own hands. Unless of course I am only responding to a stimuli like some kind of mechanical reply to the data I have been fed by the mocker.

Therefore another question in relation to the conflict - Are muslims not responsible for their own anger management problem. Does muslims not have a choice in relation to how to react upon this so-called blasphemy - is it not possible for muslims to let the mocker pass by without notice?

I would have choosen not to get insultet in this case.....by doing so I would have eliminated to mocker/ the insult. An insult needs a person/ a people to grap it - otherwise its not an insult at all...


Narcissism you wrote -- what is it that Sigmund whispers in wind...?



POLO - 2/13/2006

tell me why i should respeckt people who blew up WTC. and eat cows, holy to the Hindu, why blow up old an dbeutifull statues of buddha in afganistan, destoying presicius and holy items for them.
Not only hurting feelings, which can be healed. but destroying the possibility to visit and pray at this place.
Christian in N.Ireland and thereabout, catholic, or protastant are insane to, killuing for a cause that is forgotten.
We have religius fights all over the world, rap it up and take a dump on religion. It only causes pain among the people of the world....

I wonder how people can't see the sikness in all religion.

Love is true religion...
Peace is its offspring...


POLO - 2/13/2006

tell me why i should respeckt people who blew up WTC. and eat cows, holy to the Hindu, why blow up old an dbeutifull statues of buddha in afganistan, destoying presicius and holy items for them.
Not only hurting feelings, which can be healed. but destroying the possibility to visit and pray at this place.
Christian in N.Ireland and thereabout, catholic, or protastant are insane to, killuing for a cause that is forgotten.
We have religius fights all over the world, rap it up and take a dump on religion. It only causes pain among the people of the world....

I wonder how people can't see the sikness in all religion.

Love is true religion...
Peace is its offspring...


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/13/2006

Dear Svensk,

your socalled danish writer (Jytte Klausen) as you got a link to, has NOT been living in denmark for 20-30 years (lives in canada) so she knows as much about the situation in denmark as the islamist' in Gaza. Denmark is only her country of birth....so try again dear svensk.....


Melissa - 2/12/2006

Free countries have purchasing power too!

I have a close friend who loves teddy bears and her birthday is
coming up.

Is there a Danish teddy bear company on the web, that has a english
language page where I could browse and order?


Proud to be an Infidel - 2/12/2006

"How can a non-muslim/infidel who does not know The Holy Quran be accused of blasphemy?" Very good question and even the muslim community wrestles with this.

More poignantly however, can the mocker be accused of incitement? So far I've been deliberately reticent, in a bid to draw out peoples true views (of which you've been the sole respondent). I'll wait a bit more to see if anyone else replies. But here's a hint regarding the core controversy of the perceived insult/incitement (as I see it):

Conceit/Narcissism


Pomerol - 2/12/2006

The "problem" about B: (they are published in distributions not available to muslims) is that we are now living in an era of globalization. Therefore a media that isn't avaliable to muslims does not exist. Theoretically I would argue that if such a media existed it would not incite The Ummah at all - how could it?

Looks like you are thinking something like this:

It is not legitimately perceived as acts of incitement by the Ummah when drawings are published in distributions not available to muslim.(non-muslim sources like jyllandsposten)

Publishing the drawings in distributions that are available to muslims is legitimately perceived as acts of incitement by the Ummah.

Taken these statements into account I find myself with another unanswered question in relation to the current conflict. How can a non-muslim/infidel who does not know The Hole Quran be accused of blasphemy? An infidel has based his/her life upon a wrong "frame of Understanding". How can a muslim expect an infidel not to be wrong in all aspects of life? Are you (Islam) trying to seduce me - from my infidel mind?



Russell Whitaker - 2/12/2006

Yes, they are _very_ high quality: the Dissident Frogman is a talented graphic artist, as well as a trenchant blogger. Please spread the news of his work to your friends!


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/12/2006

looks so good....


Proud to be an Infidel - 2/12/2006

We're nearing the crux of this overall controversy, at least as I see it (more on that later) so please bear with me.

I ought to have framed the question better, something like: "Cartoons mocking Mohammed are legitimately perceived as acts of incitement by the Ummah when ... etc."; and then generalized the choices more like:

a) they are drawn privately;
b) they are published in distributions not available to muslims;
c) they are published in distributions that are available to muslims.

That in mind, do you feel b) or c) are legitimately perceived by the Ummah as acts of incitement?


danish_us - 2/12/2006

One question to you. Have you ever had friends that are muslims or jews?
If yes,were they all violents? For myself I can tell you my friends are not only jews , I know good peoplee from countries with different religions, because I am interested in learning more about new cultures.

Another question,What do you say about people in India marrying only those indians having the same religion and coming from the same background? Do you think, this is not discrimination and ? An indian friend told me that in India you have special catalogs for the marriage, through ethnical and religion criteries.
Would your parent tolerate that you marry a jew or a muslim or Hindu?


Russell Whitaker - 2/12/2006

Blogger "The Dissident Frogman" actively maintains a posting with some very high quality "Support Denmark" graphics in multiple languages (the list of which is growing) such as English, French, Italian, Polish, German, Simplified Chinese, Spanish, and Romanian:

http://www.thedissidentfrogman.com/dacha/001580.html

I recommend downloading and using these banners on our blogs.


danish_us - 2/12/2006

Well the thing is you are repeating yourself and writing the same arguments, I got your point and I am sure you are smart lady that knows a lot about history. You said how can you be racist when you are indian??
I dont agree with your argument. Racism is defined broadly as stigmatization of those we perceive as different from us, what I meant is not the colour of skin. I suggest you to live abroad to understand the meaning of Intolerance, people judging you beacause of your race , belief or just because you are being different from them. I lived in UK 2 years in a student house and I saw how Pakisatnis and Indians suffer from Intolerance. I had also some problems when I go to the sabbat with my skullcap, some people looking at me with disrespect. And I dont think you would happy if some condemn the whole indian people for something some people from your homeland did.

All the religions were violent Jews were also violent. Christians were violent as well in some decades (the crusades for example). Its not religions that make people violent, it is humans who misunderstand religion or use it as pretext for their violent acts.
Of course there are violence in the holy books, in the bible:
"Whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. ".2 Chronicles 15:13.
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned"
The same with Quran. But does it make all the people following this religion Violent??

I am a jew, and I dont think I would be happy if some one would attack my religion and point fingers with me that I am violent because Mose was violent. That does not mean I dont believe on my religion, but I am trying to take the best things from my religion and apply it to my usual life and I respect people believes. I believe that good and bad people are on the earth , whether christians,jews,muslims,budhist,athists..


Regards


Pomerol - 2/12/2006

When I read your last post, I think it goes like this:

"Freedom of expression must stops, where the stir up of The Ummah begins."

I do not agree with this view hence one of my democratic rights is the right to be offensive. It's my right to express my views as long as I follow the laws within the country of my residence. One of the problems in Europe is that certain muslims (not all muslims) might live here, but their heart still belongs to daddy back home.
Therefore for instance the danish imams didn't use their rights within Denamrk to protest against the drawings - they hurried home to daddy - and I think they should have never come back to the infidels of Denmark. If I were living in a country I didn't like it would take me about 3 seconds to pack my bags and find somewhere else to practice my beliefs.

Back to the drawings:

a/b/c
These drawings can't incite the ummah since they are kept within an infidel social context. But don't get caught!

d/e
"history" has shown us that these drawings incite the Ummah.

f/g/h
you have already categorized these drawings in your first post....

The last drawing "internal imaginary picture" I put on the list to discuss an issue that keeps on stiking my mind. You probably know of the books

Aldous Huxley : Brave New World & George Orwell : 1984

Really good reading both of them. Politicians around the world are saying democracy is limited. We must show respect to others by not insulting their views (What kind of crap is that - mind control?). The biggest respect I can show you is to tell you the truth as I see it. I'm not showing you respect by showing you only half my mind.
Therefore I say insult me and show me some respect - but please do not use the sword (that is not a respecful way to handel conflicts) - use your God given ability to speak.








Farzi - 2/12/2006

well what about boycotting the OIL. It is a good suggestion and leave Iraq again in the hands of saddam who was cruel. though some people (in fact millions including women and children) have died because of US bombing. But of course this bombing was from a civilised nation who has every right to kill others. these colored people, illiterate and lowly creatures , how dare they think they have a right to feel something.after all its us the ruler of the world who define what can hurt u what should not. so these lowly oil owning countries should learn a lesson when we master of the world would boycot the OIL.


S Misra - 2/12/2006

It would be difficult for me to be racist as I am from India originally. Why not discuss merits of religions. Do we not discuss the merits of philosophy? So what makes religions out of bounds? There is a reason no one worships Baal anymore, they used to, and archeological evidence bears it out, sacrifice infants by placing them on the red hot arms of a bronze god. We do not any longer worship the Olympians, they did not amount to much, as Socrates, a Greek, himself showed. Why is religion out of bounds? Toleration is the lowest common denominator of behavior. Understanding is much better. Understanding does not come by violence but by dialogue. The problem is that some religions are violent, whether you like it or not. The Koran is violent. Hinduism is violent (read the Gita or the Ramayana). Judaism is violent (read Exodus, just to name one book). Only Buddhism and Christianity, as the founders not the followers said it, are nonviolent. When we are not nonviolent, then only the brutes win. Sorry, there no justification for religions that promote violence, whether it is Hinduism and the caste system or justification of war, or Islam, and its demand that a follower is good when he or she kills nonbelievers. Don't believe me, read the works. Otherwise, the religions get a free ride. Hindus cannot justify caste or war, Jews cannot justify war or proclamations of thier unique acceptability to God, and Islam cannot justify the killing of nonbelievers. You Danes have only had a brief experience with Islam; these iconoclasts destroyed every temple, burnt every Buddhist, Hindu, Jain, and other libraries throughout South Asia, butchered monks, deliberately built their mosques on top of other people's sacred places (one Muslim king in India, Aurangzeb, son of the buider of the Taj Mahal, built on top of a Hindu temple), destroyed the major sacred temple in Varanasi (Benares) and left one gate up, as his own court historian says, to teach Hindus that the greatest of their temples is not worth the least mud mosque of Islam. This was nothing new. In 800 A.D., another Muslim invader went to the most sacred temple in Hinduism, at the junction of the Ganges and Yamuna Rivers, commented on how beautiful it was, took its central shrine and buried it on the footpath to his village mosque, and burnt the temple of Somnath to the ground. Of course, this long line of destruction, all approved of by the Koran, continues. Islam, true to itself, destroyed the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan and smashed some of the finest ancient art in the museums, Greco-Indian art from the time of Alexander the Great. Just as caste is an injustice not defensible by anyone, I don't care which Hindu is offended, Islam cannot justify violence. Likewise, Catholics cannot justify the silly idea of "just war." Jesus clearly taught one to turn the other cheek and love one's enemies. Buddha says hate is not conquered by hate. Socrates says violence negates reason, and Gandhi says an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Just as other violent religions fail to be rational, Islam is irrational. When violence is used, as Thucydides, the great Greek historian says, the strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must. It is not hate or racist to say, why does Islam beat the adulterer and Christ say to the crowd about to stone her, let he who is without (this) sin (of adultery) cast the first stone. The Gospel says, from the oldest to the youngest, the oldest knowing right away that they had lusted and committed adultery by their lust, dropped their stones and left. If you don't like to hear it, you are doing no one any favors. Like Voltaire, one must face religious brutes head on. Just because one bows, crawls or genuflects does not give one a pass on being rational. Reason demands nonviolence, and again, Islam is irrational. I would rather love my enemy and teach him by example, or by my suffering, than behead, knife, shoot, bomb, maim, whip or torture. Wouldn't you?


Proud to be an Infidel - 2/12/2006

To be sure I've left out many possibilities, "internal imaginary picture" being one. Readers are invited to provide more. (Please understand these are offered here as discussion points.)

It goes without saying how one answers is a reflection of one's "frame of understanding", which indeed is partly the purpose in offering these discussion points. It helps reveal what the respondent's frame of understanding is.

That said, I'd consider points f/g/h to fall firmly into the "incitement" category, while points a/b/c fall under freedom of expression. The intervening points are a little trickier, hence their inclusion as discussion points.

"Absolutists" of course would not have no trouble whatsoever - for them these are either all true or all false (depending on their slant). Perhaps you could take a firmer position than they're all true/false simultaneously?

Cheers


Pomerol - 2/12/2006

How many of these linked statements do you consider are true?

All of them are true and non of them are true.

I guess it depends on which "Frame of understanding" I use to interpret the text.

You forgot one:

They are drawn within your own mind as an "internal" imaginary picture.


Pomerol - 2/12/2006

I don't think the Viking spirit has ever died. That's why King Christian could take a strole down the streets of Copenhagen wearing a yellowstar during the nazi occupation. He had the love of the people and no one dared to touch him.
But even Vikings grow up - The Danes are surely not a warloving people. We like our peace and even now seeing the muslim rage escalating throughout the world. Muslims and Vikings still live peaceful lives next to each other in the Kingdom of Denmark.


Svend - 2/12/2006

How very strange that 12 drawings in a Danish newspaper should make the moslem world go mad, while nobody has had anything to say about that the saudi authorities are erasing almost everything (building, edifacts and other things) in Mecca and Medina pertaining to the prophet, his family or friends...Makes one think, doesn't it?


fightback - 2/12/2006

heroes of gary:
lenin and stalin team - even your fellow socialists admit 40 MILLION murdered - but the truth is 100 MILLION thanks to socialists utopian dreams
mao say dung - another 45 MILLION
pol pot 1.7 MILLION of his own
fido castro - hundreds of thousands of his own people
and gary's favorite socialists of all hitler!!!!
and the gary's newest heroes - who will kill anyone and everyone until their utopian dream is accepted by all


Steven R Alvarado - 2/12/2006

Me thinks that this current episode may make the Danes rethink their current views on the world. They may want to reawaken some of their long buried Viking spirit.


Morten S. - 2/12/2006

Have you even seen the cartoons?
Did you know that the "pig" and "dog" image were NEVER printed in the paper? They plus another were used by muslim from Denmark to get you angry. They misled the people they talked to. They were imams and they lied, claming to represent 200.000 danish muslims then the truth is closer too 15.000.

Violent act? Offensive perhabes (although I can't see more then one possible offensive cartoon, the bomb one) but I fail to see the violence. Other then the one committed by muslims in the middleeast, in their reaction.


Morten S. - 2/12/2006

I will not vote that despicable parti.
Pia K. is a bitch in the worst sence of the word, she is a racist cow. And I'm sad for every single vote her and her parti ever got.

A vote for DF is a vote for intolerance.


Morten - 2/12/2006

Det er lovligt at brænde det danske flag i Danmark, men ikke andres flags.
------
In Denmark it is legal to burn the Danish flag, but not to burn other countries flags.


Proud to be an Infidel - 2/12/2006

(apologies)

This post should follow after Ensan's above.


Proud to be an Infidel - 2/12/2006

Spare yourself the trouble Ensan, of trying to educate these two.

Like most rightists/leftists they presume to explain the nature of the world, two and three paragraphs at a time!

If it were only so simple.


Proud to be an Infidel - 2/12/2006

We're all pretty familiar now with the loud refrains "It's freedom of expression!" and "It's incitement of the Ummah!" but seldom do we see these competing claims drawn out over a range of pertinent circumstances. So allow me to "incite" the readers here a bit. ;)

How many of these linked statements do you consider are true?

"Cartoons mocking Mohammed incite the Ummah when ...

a) they are drawn privately in your kitchen where no-one can see them."
b) they are drawn privately and shared with your visiting (christian or jewish) friends."
c) they are drawn privately and shared with your visiting (atheist) friends."
d) they are published in your local newspaper which has no distribution in muslim communities."
e) they are republished in a muslim community newspaper after discovering them in your local newspaper."
f) they are published in your local newspaper and travelling imans distribute it to muslim communities (as evidence of incitement)."
g) they are published directly in muslim community newspapers (as evidence of incitement)."
h) they are published directly in muslim community newspapers (as a direct provocation to muslims)."


kristian - 2/12/2006

yeh, thats right we got all the rights we need to say and do what ever we want in denmark (i come from there but live in england)


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/12/2006

Something's Forgotten in the Hate of Denmark
By David Roodman

"The recent attacks by Islamic fundamentalists on the Danish embassies in Lebanon and Syria can be called blind, tragic, even cartoonish. To that list of adjectives, add this one: ironic. According to the Commitment to Development Index, which rates rich countries on how much their government policies help or hurt poorer countries, no nation works harder than Denmark to help people in poorer parts of the world, including predominantly Muslim nations. Few less deserve this hatred. The CDI looks not just at foreign aid policies, but at those relating to trade, investment, migration, environment, military affairs, and technology; so Denmark’s top-notch standing shows that it is a good global citizen in a broad sense. (See Denmark CDI page)

Each day, Danes give $1.03 a person in foreign aid to poorer countries, including Bangladesh, Egypt, and Afghanistan, and other predominantly Muslim nations, putting them second only to Norway—whose embassies have also been attacked. (Compare that to the 18 cents Americans give.) But it turns out the two Nordics give almost the same as share of gross domestic product. (Norwegians give more, but are oil-rich.) Accounting for that and the higher quality of Danish aid, as measured in the CDI, moves Denmark into first on the CDI aid component. Denmark is an environmental exemplar among rich industrial countries, ranking sixth on the CDI environment component, as one of the few to cut its greenhouse gas emissions in the last decade. One cause is an aggressive push into windpower. One consequence is a small drop in the chance that rising seas will inundate much of Bangladesh. And Denmark is among the leaders on the CDI’s security component, too. After NATO waged an air war to force Serbia to halt ethnic cleansing in Muslim Kosovo in 1999, Denmark contributed 900 troops to the follow-on peacekeeping operation there, more than any other country for its size. (Troop tallies are under “Security 2005” in the CDI 2005 spreadsheet.-- excel file) And when it comes to selling arms to despotic regimes in the Middle East, Denmark’s hands are clean.

All this seems forgotten in the hate of Denmark. The Associated Press reported yesterday that Danish aid organizations have halted food distribution in Muslim Chechnya out of fears for workers’ safety. Thus has anger over a symbolic injury to Islam brought injury of the most tangible sort to Islam’s followers.

(Learn more: Hear David discuss Denmark in a BBC interview) "


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/12/2006

please lower your caps


GOT ENOUGH - 2/12/2006



THE STUPID, SO CALLED TAKE CARE OFF EVERY STRANGER, WHO COME TO LIVE IN DENMARK, MUST WAKE UP.
CAN´T YOU SEE IT NOW, THERE ARE NO ROOM IN DENMARK FOR EVERY EXTREMIST GROUPS, IN THE WORLD, WHO WILL NOT BE A PART OFF THE DANISH SOCIETY.
IF THIS TOTAL HATE TO THE DANISH PEOPLE, DON´T HAVE OPENED YOUR EYES, IT WILL NEVER HAPPENED.
AND AS LONGER YOU CLOSE YOUR EYES FOR THIS FACT, THE MORE AND MORE YOU SUPPORT THE PEOPLE, WHO WILL NOT ALLOW US TO MAKE JOKES, WRITE AND READ WHAT WE WANTS.
SO, I SAY, WAKE UP, STOP SUPPORTING, THESE CONTRIES,
WHO SUPPORTS KILLING TREATHS AND EMBASSY BURNING.
LET´S MAKE IT STRAIGTH FOR ALL MUSLIMS IN DENMARK, IF YOU DON´T WANT TO LIVE UNDER THE DANISH LAWS, THEN MYBE IS WORTH CONCIDERING, TO LEAVE, AND FIND A BETTER PLACE IN THE WORLD TO LIVE.
LUCKELY MOST MUSLIMS IN DENMARK ARE HAPPY TO LIVE IN PEACE, AND ACCEPT THE DANISH WAY OFF LIFE. RESPECT.
BUT THE MINORATY, WHO ALWAY YELL HIGHER THAN THE REST, ARE THEY MORE RIGTH, BECAUSE THEY CRY LOUDER THAN THE REST?
DON´T THINK SO, AND IT´S THAT MINORATY, WE MYBE HAVE TO ASK,
IF YOU DON´T LIKE IT HERE, WHY STAY, AND DESTROY EVERYTHING FOR THE REST.
AND EVERYONE WHO WILL SAY I´M SORRY, STOP IT NOW, CAUSE WHEN THE TROUBLEMAKERS SEE A LITTLE HOLE, THEY TAKE ADVANTAGE, AND TRY TO DIG THE HOLE BIGGER, BETWIN
MUSLIMS AND DANES.
I´M PROUD TO BE A DANE, AND NO ONE, NOT EVEN THE TAXMAN, CAN CHANGE THAT, NOT EVEN A BUNCH OF EXTREMISTS, WHO WANTS US TO SAY WE ARE SORRY AND MORE SORRY AND EVEN MORE SORRY.
WHAT´S NEXT, I WONDER?
BUT I´M AFFRAID, WHEN YOU, WITH YOUR SO CALLED HUMAN WAY OFF
LIFE, ALLWAYS DENNEING THE PROBLEMS, AND CLOSING YOU EYES, WILL GIVE STRENGTH TO SOME FORCES IN DENMARK, WHISH ARE EVEN WORSE, THAN YOU THINK THE DANISH PEOPLES PARTI IS.
SO STOP SAYING I´M SORRY.
SUPPORT THE FREE PRESS, THE FREE MUSLIMS VOICE IN THE WEST.
KEEP ON THE GOD WORK NASER KHADER, JYLLANDS-POSTEN,
ANDERS FOGH, EKSTRA BLADET AND THE WHOLE BUY DANISH SUPPORT.
AND TAKE CARE.














Slater - 2/12/2006

Beautiful.

Yes, someone may call you a racist, but then someone will be an idiot.

They had this coming.


Slater - 2/12/2006

That would be "you're", "that's" and "right".

You might want to grow some brains yourself, before you go around calling people dumb ;)


Gary - 2/12/2006

Is this the religion of "peace" we keep hearing about:

Ahmadinejad told a large crowd in Tehran yesterday that Israel would be "removed" by the Palestinians and "other nations," and dismissed the West as "hostages of the Zionists."

"The people of the U.S. and Europe should pay a heavy price for becoming hostages to Zionists," Ahmadinejad declared. "We ask the West to remove what they created sixty years ago and if they do not listen to our recommendations, then the Palestinian nation and other nations will eventually do this for them. Do the removal of Israel before it is too late and save yourself from the fury of regional nations."


Gary - 2/12/2006

Careful Mew or some "kind-hearted soul" in this group will accuse you of being racist.


Gary - 2/12/2006

Quote: "Fact is your comments are racists..."

I disagree. Misra's comments are not at all racist, as there have been no hateful comments towards Muslim people in general. Comments made have been towards Islam and the "whys" of the behavior we see from Muslim nations today. It may not be relevant to this blog, but neither is it racist.


Gary - 2/12/2006

Quote: "so many have a negative and almost dangerous view towards Islam (whether they have or have not understood the religion)."

Dangerous view of Islam? I suggest you read the Koran and compare it to the teachings of Christ.


Gary - 2/12/2006

Quote: "it was false!!"

Really! Let's look at the following:
"The Glorious Qur'an" By Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall. Published by Tahrike Tarsile Qur'an, Inc.

5:51 "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk."


Gary - 2/12/2006

Quote: "Use quotes as to underline your point, not hide it. But by all means, let's have a contest how many submissive quotes we can find in all holy books..."

Again, the reason for the quotes from Koran was to show the violent nature of Islam as it is displayed in Koran. Other folks in this group have clearly pointed out the violent nature of Islam as it has been lived out in history against different peoples. The main point I would like to stress here is that you will not find in scripture anywhere where Jesus instructed his followers to terrorize or inflict acts of violence on ANYONE. The Koran is replete with this nature of violence.

Qur’an 8:67 “It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land.”


Mew - 2/11/2006

I will boycott Muslim products till I get an apology from all Muslims states, for the following insulting issues that Islam is associated to:

- The disrespectful suppression of my fellow gender, where women are forced to cover their hair and sometimes faces, as Muslim men apparently can’t control their own lust.

- Muslim men who beat their wives (I know a nurse in Denmark who takes care of abused women, who say there is four times as many Muslim women who receive treatment as Danish, and keep in mind that Muslims only make up two present of the Danish population)

- Danish Imams who says that all women, who do not wear veils deserved to be whipped.

- Women in Saudi Arabia who are not allowed to drive, and have to ask permission from their husband to get a passport.

- Women and girls, who are stoned, beheaded, killed or punish for being raped in Muslims countries.

- The intolerance show against homosexual.

- That Islam (religion of peace) claims that infidels (which include myself) deserve to die.

- The barbarian way Muslims kills animals so that they suffer as much as possible.

- The non acceptant of the lows in my country and culture.

- The war against Freedom of Speech.

- The burning of the Danish embassy.

- The burning of the Danish flag.

- Continuing dead treats against my country and its people (including myself, my family and friends).

- Muslims, who come to Denmark and contributes nothings to this country except living of one of the world’s highest welfares, break our lows and complain about Denmark being racist. -Which is actually funny, as Denmark has given them all the opportunity in this world, with free education and money while studying (this include university). And also keep respecting their demands, such as severing only halal meet in Danish public schools (also banding pigs), and separating boys and girls in swimming lesions. (And the list goes on and on and on)

- The shitty music that Outlandish has poisoned Denmark with.

- The murder of Theo van Gogh.

- The beheading of western people (Which is also show on your televisions)

- The terrorist attacks against innocents in Bali.

- The terrorist attacks against innocents in Madrid.

- The terrorist attacks against innocents in London on 7/7 (where I came close to losing the one person that means the most to me)

Muslims, who thinks that their emotions about Islam are more legitimate and more impotent than my emotions regarding human rights and democracy.

And note that I want an apology from all Muslims! As following their own logic you have to hold the majority responsible for what the minority does.


Jack - 2/11/2006

The Dane's main mistake was allowing Muslims into their country in the first place.
(I will now try to buy Danish products)


Wait, what? - 2/11/2006

Oh, your a dumbass, yea thats rite.


What... - 2/11/2006

...if the same thing happened to your religous leader (such as Jesus in the case of those Christian), would you making the same arguments for freedom of speech?

I also remember, vaguely, something about limitations in the freedom of speech in the case of enciting violence or something called the Clear and Present Danger test in the American Constitution.

I denounce the Danish Government for taking a matter like this with no response and negligence.


Raj - 2/11/2006

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&;newsId=20060210005547&newsLang=en

O Fair Kingdom of the North... Generous, Incorruptible, Loyal, Brave - you stand at the pinnacle of human evolution. Your magnanimity and hospitality have been abused by the very creatures to whom you had provided shelter in your moments of irrational multicultural exuberance. Corners of the wretched and destitute world where there are no Danish geopolitical, global supremacy agenda involved, are benefitting from the rain of your kindness; yet the creatures who have long been the ungrateful recipients of such no-strings-attached generosity, are burning your proud, ancient flag. (conveniently overlooking the fact that it symbolizes a non-violent godly soul, who is allegedly sacred, as a prophet, to them as well).

Some say its a myth, that King Christian wore the Yellowstar during the nazi occupation; yet there can possibly be no smoke without fire. (unless you're Jesse Jackson?) Exaggeration? maybe, but hardly a fanciful tale. I stand in awe of your magnificent history.***

God Bless. You have the support of all the right-thinking people of the world. (As well as myself)

-Raj

***This snivelling paen applies purely to the post-jomsvikings era. Naturally.


Mew - 2/11/2006

To the pompous Swede who claims that Denmark is so racist, and the your censorship-loving country is not. Why is it that Sweden has around 3000 racist related crimes every year, yet Denmark only has 50-60?
The different between our nations is that we are not afraid to speak public about issues that concern the general public. You are so obsessed about being political correct that you ignore the real issues.
And this is from a left-wing Dane.


danish_us - 2/11/2006

Listen Misra, I dont know what your articles have to do with this blog? We dont discuss here religions,it is your right to criticise a religion or qualify it as you want , but we seek to find ways to solve the problems.
If you want to support danish, or suggest solutions to the problem you are welcome but please without generalizing and increasing more hate between muslims and christians who all are humans. Violence was in every religion but some People are making violence by misunderstanding religions. If 1.5 Billion muslims were violent like you said then, you werent here writing.

Fact is your comments are racists and, and I think me and most of the danes we dont share your views. You can write your comments in any anti-islam forums you want (there are plenty of them)but definitively it has no place here.
Dont take it personally


S Misra - 2/11/2006

Intercultural does not mean all accepting. There is only a few dictum worth following: Gandhi: The means is the end. Socrates: Violence negates reason. Jesus: Love your enemies. Islam will violence as a means, read the Koran; Islam therefore negates reason and peace; Islam teaches the killing of enemies. One does not tolerate the intolerant. One does not tolerate Nazis or racists. One does not tolerate violent religions. But, the way to not tolerate is to reason. Sadly, the Muslim countries prevent dialogue; they ban evangelism. I am proud to be a Christian, who believes in the words of Jesus, a nonviolent man, and not Mohammed, a violent man who justified killing, who married a child, and who lived a worldly life.


S Misra - 2/11/2006

I love Dansk products. I will do my little part to make up for the boycott by the Shiites and Sunni, and no, there is no "Islam," because it is two sects who are at each other's throats. Which is right? Both see each other as heretics. Both are violent. Both are irrational. Well, maybe there is an "Islam," all of it is violent and irrational.


anas - 2/11/2006

Another hate speach. The topic have nothing related to the subject. Both Shiite and Suni Muslims protest againt denmark. This is the fact. Who is Idi Amin your are talking about?.


anas - 2/11/2006

I feel those who enjoy hate speach should be punished. Danish products boycott is the right of those who felt that they have been insulted.
It very shamefull for danish to ask others to buy their products while they show them no respect.


Gary - 2/11/2006

"where were your ilk when your hero facsist loving clinton was dropping the bombs - somehow - you weren't in the streets then - were you - hypocrite leftists"
And yes I was on the streets against war, while you were still sucking your finger.

"yeah Bush was holding a gun to your cousin's back forcing him to go to war"
That proves that you are an idiot who is watching CNN with the "God bless America" Propaganda.
My cousin never wanted to go on war to Iraq but he had no choice, either he goes there or he ll be fired from the army and brought to the justice.
We all know no soldier wanted to go to war,but never heard military authority?. Remember Bush was promising green cards to south americans if they go to war, and was paying money for poor people to go to war, cause american faggots like you call for war in Blogs but when it comes to the real war they prefer to stay home enjoying how our soldiers kill children and how our soldiers get killed.
So "Fight Back" if you like war why you dont go to iraq and fight or are you too scared to get your ass kicked or you small head thrown away from a brain
An idiot said"Intellectual laziness and lack of originality"
please show me some kind of originality in your post "Our lives are now endangered by the new fascists!", sounds like a 15 years old teenie playing counterstrike:)

loser said"pick up some history books and find out who the fascists really were and still are."
Ay yeah who are the faschists?
you can pick up some history books and work out your brain:
1975 Vietnam War Over two million people were including 55,000 U.S. troops
1961 vs. Cuba
1983 Grenada
1989 US Invasion of Panama:Over 2,000 Panamanians were killed in the invasion to capture one leader
1990-1991 Gulf War Up to 200,000 civilian Iraqis were killed in the war
1992 Somalia Instead of remaining neutral, U.S. forces took the side of one faction against another faction, and bombed a Mogadishu neighborhood killing 4000 people
1995-1996 Other so called "humanitarian interventions Yugoslavia
2001 Invasion of Afghanistan more than 20000 Afghan civilians were killed
2003 Invasion of Iraq more than 3000 Us troops were killed and at least 100,000 Iraqi civilians

Of course, these wars were explained to the U.S. stupid people like you as defending the lives and rights of civilian populations. The civilian deaths are always explained away as "accidental" or "unavoidable.".

Whether in Vietnam, Central America, or the Persian Gulf, the U.S. was not defending "freedom" but an ideological agenda (such as defending capitalism) or an economic agenda (such as protecting oil company investments).

If a country has the right to "end" a state that trains terrorists, would Cuba or Nicaragua have had the right to launch defensive bombing raids on U.S. targets to take out exile terrorists?

Unfortunately there are many people (intellectula laziness??) who believe that shit that Bush &Co are telling us.
And I can tell you more little boy about the history of the US Army but I want to save my intellectual Capacities for intellectual people and for more interesting discussions.


Go - 2/11/2006


Some more BUY DANISH addresses:

http://www.buy-danishproducts.com/

http://www.buydanish.net/

http://www.madeindenmark.org/


Sven from Denmark - 2/11/2006

What lac of swedish moral.
Hard to hear a suede talk about tolerence. Your skinheads and nazi symphatizers are infecting most of Scandinavia...
Hard to see you as anything but what you are... Lets talk again when swedish arms no longer appears in your national income...
Fy fan for dubbeltmoral prata om sameksistens og handla vapen til diktatorerna ... svenske djævle...


S Misra - 2/11/2006

Who the hell is the unknown Lacy O'Leary? I can think of a dozen historians, a number of them MUSLIM court historians, who carefully recorded how Islam spread not only by the sword. The backward Muslim barbarians burnt universities, destroyed temples, feasted after massacres, and murdered monks. Read someone with a real name in history (of course, you are the same Hasan who picks English racists like Carlyle) such as H. G. Wells, The Outline of History, Will and Ariel Durant, Joseph Campbell, the world famous mythologist, Max Weber, the founder of sociology. That is why, Hasan, after 800 years of Muslim murderous rule, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, and tribal people in India hate Muslims. That is why your nations are backward, because you lived off the work, the plunder of other people's civilizations, never having to innovate. That is why your backwater nations missed the Renaissance. That is why there is no university of museum with any worthwhile name anywhere in the Arab world. Where there is something interesting to look at besides endless geometrics is the civilization of others, such as the ancient Egyptians. Face it Hasan, you all had a thousand years of this violent faith, and you blew it. Now, you can only defend it by murder and censorship, by preventing enlightened and nonviolent faiths from preaching in your backwater nations, one-commodity economies.


Histz - 2/11/2006


It seems like things have changed,
nowadays it's 'svensk' supporting
fascism, Islamic fascism (!)- and
Jyllands-Posten (#1 daily in Denmark) that are fighting for democracy and civil rights.

That's ironical, or ....

Judge for yourself: www.jp.dk (pages
in english, french, dutch and arabic)



S Misra - 2/11/2006

Because one cannot rise above one's teaching. The Koran and Mohammed teach followers to kill; Jesus teaches peace. Killing by any means necessary, including terrorism, beheading, knifing, shooting, bombing, all all acceptable. Jesus taught us to love our enemies. Islam teaches us to kill them.


S Misra - 2/11/2006

But, Hasan, what if the father is a killer too, then why should he turn his son in. Islam's founder teaches that killing of those who refuse to believe is good. He does not say how, beheading, bombing, shooting, knifing, poisoning, gassing, or strangling. All is alright. Whipping, prescribed also by the Koran, is also alright. Why should such a father turn his equally brutal son in? Both are the same. Muhammed killed. His followers kill. Mohammed would approve, not disapprove. Over one thousand years of Muslim library burning, temple and church destruction, statue destruction, art destruction, slavery, killing and dictatorship are enough. We know what Islam is all about and we refuse. Jesus is better, he is nonviolent. Socrates is better, he is nonviolent. Buddha is better, he is nonviolent. Gandhi is better, he is nonviolent. Now, Hasan, try hard this time not to kill the messenger, try logically defending yourself by a standard higher than what Islam offers.


Henrik Hornstrup - 2/11/2006

Dear Sunshine,
The drawings(as I dont think you have seen) is in any way legal printet in denmark. So not accepting the law in the country where they live (as was the case for a small group of danish imams) was actually the worst thing about all this. Its actually the imams and islamist that should apologize to the danish people, to all moderate muslims in denmark and the the state of denmark for this most offending traveling around in ME spreading lies about Denmark. Anything else but this is turning the whole case upsite down. And thats what you and other islamist are doing!!!