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Oops! The link to the variability page got messed up above.
Erik Holland -
2/8/2005
Ms. Ring,
None of the links cited in my previous post make an appeal to authority; the arguments are of an empirical nature. Besides, talking about central tendency differences or trait distribution differences is not the same as generalizing a characteristic to all members of a group. In case you haven’t noticed, there is even a page depicting the remarkable variability of the sexual behaviors of homosexuals, i.e., read carefully before you accuse me of generalizations.
The “collective judgments” that you refer to hardly resemble “judgments”; empirical evidence suggesting between-groups trait distribution differences is not “judgment.”
The passage that you quote does not appear on any of the pages that I linked to in my previous post; you took it from a different page. Like deconstructionists, it appears that you have little interest in addressing the substance of the arguments because you have not refuted any empirical data cited, but you attempt to refute an argument by assigning malicious motives and “judgments” to your opponent. The passage that you quote is part of an article that addresses why several Christians appear motivated to oppose several demands of homosexual activists; this passage does not reflect my views; I am not a Christian and do not have any religious stance toward homosexuality.
David Timothy Beito -
2/7/2005
I think fax and direct phone messages are best.
Jeanine Ring -
2/7/2005
Msr. Holland,
You illustrate in una pictura and clarity point.
The endless search for collective judgements about "those people" will never change. And the use of authorities in science to promote generalizations about the oppressed in as old as the corruption of reason into positivism (and older, being quite prevelant in Aristotle).
As for the sire you offer as proof, it took me few scant minutes to find the following words on it, under 'Christianity and homosexuality':
"One need also mention another significant reason why a number of Christians seem compelled to oppose various demands of homosexuals. The Bible talks about a lot of sins. Generally speaking, sinners such as adulterers, incest offenders, rapists, muggers, shoplifters, and the greedy do not take out "pride parades" to celebrate their lifestyle or demand that others accept their behavior. In addition, although adulterers do not choose to be attracted to someone other than their spouse, they don't attempt to use this lack of choice over their attractions to justify adultery because they know that they had the choice to not be adulterous. Of the few sinners others than practicing homosexuals who celebrate their lifestyle, none come anywhere close to homosexuals. For instance, even though the number of obese individuals considerably exceeds the number of homosexuals, only a miniscule number of obese individuals celebrate gluttony and insist that others accept it. In fact, it is worth noting that a number of gluttons that insist on the acceptance of obesity are feminists, who are typically both obese and practicing homosexuals. Therefore, practicing homosexuals appear to be especially unique sinners from a Christian standpoint."
I'm sure I could find worse if I looked, but I've sullied enough trash onto this website for this day, thank you.
Msr., that such judgements about what people are 'inherently like', are fair game against gays and lesbians, is enough to make adamning indictment against consitutive views to our inherited culture.
Dr. Hoppe's remarks are not inocuous, nor are yours. They are simply socially acceptable bigotry- tho' bigotry which, incidentally, should be protected in the Ivory Tower by a principled commitment to academic freedom.
And, BTW, you may certainly count me in among "the homosexuals", seeing as I happen to be a bisexual transgender woman. It's not my issue, I'm afriad- I confess I missed most of my first pride because I was working under contract at the time. You see, as a prostitute and an aspiring courtesan (and for that matter, a Pagan and a practicing Witch), I'm too busy in celebration of another sort of sinfulness- of the proud legacy of Calamity Jane, Aspasia of Miletos, and Veronica Franco. For those that know their Latin, stand forth!
Otherwise, I find your bigotry to pose a poor reflection on this otherwise generally honourable house.
regards,
Jeanine Ring
)(*)(
"not all those who wander are lost"
Roderick T. Long -
2/7/2005
I'm hearing that President Harter is dropping her email address, so those sending protests might want to phone or fax (David provides those numbers in his post).
There's also snailmail (remember that?) -- not as quick but harder to block; the address is:
Office of the President University of Nevada, Las Vegas 4505 Maryland Parkway Box 451001 Las Vegas, Nevada 89154-1001
Erik Holland -
2/7/2005
It is regrettable that an innocuous remark on the part of Dr. Hoppe has been perceived as homophobic. There is plenty of factual information showing elevated risky practices among homosexuals. See information on risky sexual practices among homosexuals here. See information on elevated substance use and elevated generic risky practices among homosexuals here, here, and here. See also proof that elevated substance use and mental health problems among homosexuals are largely unaccounted for in terms of stigma, prejudice, and discrimination.
Roderick T. Long -
2/6/2005
The following passage (thanks, Stephan K.) from the UNLV by-laws might be useful for ammo in writing letters on this.
On Academic Freedom (from the university bylaws). Academic freedom is essential to these purposes and is applicable to both teaching and research. Freedom in teaching is fundamental for the protection of the rights of the teacher in teaching and of the student in learning. Freedom in research is fundamental to the advancement of truth and knowledge. A member of the faculty has freedom and an obligation, in the classroom or in research, to discuss and pursue the faculty member's subject with candor and integrity, even when the subject requires consideration of topics which may be politically, socially or scientifically controversial. In order to insure the freedom to seek and profess truth and knowledge, as stated in Section 2.3 of the University and Community College System of Nevada Code, the faculty member, as defined in Section 2.2 of this chapter, shall not be subjected to censorship or discipline by the University and Community College System of Nevada on grounds that the faculty member has expressed opinions or views which are controversial, unpopular or contrary to the attitudes of the University and Community College System of Nevada or the community. (B/R 4/02)
Kenneth R Gregg -
2/6/2005
David,
It seems like these kind of issues are now used by all sides of the political spectrum, as you can see here: Student Files Lawsuit in the Rebel Yell, the campus newspaper.
I find it creepy, uncalled for, and a very scary attempt to eliminate anyone that a student (or, for that matter, anybody) can use against someone. Has this become the consequence of political correctness? In my own field of mediation, I try to be careful of language usage, contexts of the party's background, ethnicity, etc., because it is important to build communication with the parties, but I normally only have two primary parties in each situation that I'm helping.
In a classroom environment, this is impossible! Unless we separate every classroom's sex, cultural background, religion, economic status, and any other conceivable distinction, you just can't do this!
Hoppe is not a mind-reader, nor am I, nor you or the University officials! To ask this of anyone is ridiculous.
