Poll: Was Larry King Right?
HNN asked our readers to respond to Larry King's recent statement that 9-11 was"the most important event in the history of the United States." We received the following emails in response.
PREMATURE VERDICTRanking the importance of historical events is a fool's game and of little value. At worst, it encourages a Casey Kasem approach to the study of the past that oversimplifies complicated issues and turns history into trivia.
Still, it's fun. And if done in the right spirit, I suppose it's pretty harmless.
So let's start by rapping Larry King for his hyperbole. As devastating as the assault of September 11 was for countless individuals and for the United States as a nation, it has not (yet) wrought any major historic changes. Lexington and Concord, much less consequential in the number of lives lost, set America on the road to independence. Fort Sumpter sundered the Union and not only began America's bloodiest war, but also set in motion events that led to the end of slavery and the Reconstruction amendments. Pearl Harbor, to which the September 11 attacks have been compared, plunged the U.S. into a World War of unprecedented proportions. So far at least, nothing like those consequences has followed from September 11. And it's conceivable that nothing like them will.
So given that it's premature to issue any sure verdict, how do we begin to compare September 11 to other events? After all, besides the aforementioned wars (and other wars too), one has to think about social movements (notably feminism, in both the Progressive years and the '70s; and the civil rights movement of the '50s and '60s); constitutional crises (notably Watergate); periods of governance (e.g., the New Deal); and cultural, economic, and demographic developments (e.g., the rise of Hollywood, America's emergence as an industrial power, the immigration of the late 19th and early 20th centuries). Some of these many not be events, strictly speaking, but others surely are.
The more I think about these diverse"events," the more I wonder how anyone can even begin to rank them in importance. So I come back to something like my original statement: the more you think about the scope of American history, the less tenable -- and the less meaningful -- a statement like Larry King's becomes.
David Greenberg
PANIC PROMOTERNo, I don't agree with this poll.
There have been three events since 9-11. The attack was on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, not the United States.
Second, Bush has declared a"war against terrorism."
Like the war against communism this ideological war is unwinnable. It will have no ending, until somebody gives a legal definition of terrorism. A terrorist act is a murder, bombing, arson or some other act of violence which is a conspiracy, since it is also a collective, political crime. But only individuals can be brought to trial to discover their motives. International law is weak, because international society has no court with blind, objective judges on the bench. Islamic law is based on different pinciples from the American Constitution. International society has no international police force. Thus each nation-state defines the acts by a terrorists to suit itself.
Third, the Bush Administration is fighting a phantom war against a wide open territory called Afghanistan. There is no nation state of Afghanistan. There are no Afghani people. In Afghanistan, there exist wild tribes who speak at least five major languages and hundreds of clans in which chiefs backed by mullahs interprete the Quran in a militant, manichaen way. In these conditions more or less like the South Dakota bad lands, around 1880, a fanatic like bin Laden can live. The cost to the US in tracking him down will be greater than the original offense of murdering 5000 people. Will Bush put him on trial or simply assassinate him, if they ever catch him? How many recruits will the Taliban and dozens of terrorist groups acquire in the meantime?If they get bin Laden, will the Bush Administration then invade Baghdad? Will the Pakistani, Egyptian, Jordanian, Saudi goverments survive a long American-Afghani war?
Larry King is a citizen of the US and he gets his rights from a court system which will enforce the Bill of Rights. The panic in Congress today is in the process of abandoning the American Constitution. Larry King is part of the general panic promoters on TV.
Robert Whealey Historian, Ohio University
OMINOUS PORTENTS
I think it is a bit myopic to try to evaluate how important the events of September 11th are in the long run. What are the top 10 events in American history? In part it depends upon how one defines 'event.' If we leave aside colonial America, the first important event would have to be the Declaration of Independence in 1776, without which there would be no other events in US History. But one could make a case for the shot heard around the world at Lexington in 1775 or the British surrender at Yorktown, too, since both were necessary for the Revolution to succeed. The Civil War alone might produce the entire list of top ten events, beginning with Lincoln's election in 1860, Secession, Bull Run, the capture of New Orleans which made Confederate success unlikely, Grant's campaign in the West, Gettysburg, etc. OR maybe the Civil War should just be seen as one event in toto? Certainly Emancipation in 1865 would rank as another top ten event. So would Pearl Harbor. Probably Hiroshima, too, although maybe again World War II ranks as a single long event. It is hard to see Sept. 11 as being more important than the launching of the nuclear age. Although Kennedy's death, and perhaps King's as well, traumatized people more at some psychological level, the real destruction from Sept. 11 is clearly worse, and the ominous portents of things to come or the fear about such things cannot be overlooked. Without being pressed for details as to a ranking of the top ten, I would have to consider Sept. 11 to be included within the list of the top ten, but it is distinctly below the American Revolution, the Civil War, or World War II. So perhaps it is the most important event of the past fifty years. That is a long enough time period to suggest a real significance.
Bill Rorabaugh
TOO SOON TO KNOWHas Larry King developed senility?"The most important event in the history of the US." Really? How about the revolutionary war? Or the establishment of the constitution? Or the work of the supreme court over the past couple of centuries? How about the Civil War? The end of slavery? Jim Crow? What about the US role in Latin America during the final years of the XIX and first years of the XX centuries? How does the US involvement in WW I and WW II fit into all of this? Or does it? And does the depression not count either?
I am sure that everyone gets my point.....there are many places/events, etc. that could be pointed to as determining in the history of the USA. We could even look at something as simple as the establishment of the 1st McDonalds or KFC or Burger King and the spread of consumer capitalism as a determining moment in our history. A sad one, but a determining one.
It is too soon to know the significance of 11 September. We should wait to make such historical statements. Maybe it will prove decisive in some way. On the other hand, perhaps it will prove to be little more than a slight blip on the historical radar. We need patience.
K.S. Ainsworth Willamette UniversityWATERSHED MOMENT?
As the events of September 11 are still part of the present, it is difficult to judge their historical significance. They and their repercussions, however, may prove in the future to be of great importance to our national history. If the bombings and all they represent turn out to be a watershed moment similar to the Roman defeat of Carthage in 146 BC or the defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588, we may be witnessing the split second in time when future historians mark the beginning of the end of American imperial power as well as the end of our experiment with democratic republicanism. I fear that our inability to embrace anything but a male engendered militarism coupled with our capitalist myopia will inevitably lead us down the same path as that trod by the other great, yet late world empires. Unless a countervailing force of historical perspective or liberal rationality emerges, we may be doomed to use the events of September 11 as a springboard for rushing headlong into our own demise.
Sondra Cosgrove History Ph.D. Candidate University of Nevada, Las VegasPRESENT FLEAS OR PAST FEVERS
First of all, since when is Larry King to be regarded as a big thinker on American history?
Second, as St. Augustine said to St. Jerome (before the arrows came) about the difficulties with the barbarians at the gates of Rome,"present fleas are always deemed worse than past fevers." Oops, maybe that wasn't such a good example. On the other hand, it seems clear that some perspective of the type provided by historical distance is necessary before such a freshly inflicted, albeit horrific, wound can be accurately assessed.
Third, and in connection with the last point: more significant than the Revolution? More significant than the Civil War? The Great Depression? World War II? Vietnam? Or even Watergate? (One could think of several other examples, as well). However one would rank them, they are all events with monumental ramifications for the culture, society, economy, and political life of the nation--ramifications that took years and decades to unfold. In any case, to make such a diagnosis at this early juncture is both premature and ahistorical. Larry King may be entitled to make such unprofesional pronouncements, but real historians aren't.
Craig Wollner Professor, Social Science Portland State University, Portland, ORTOP TEN
My top ten events in US history:
1. War of Independence 2. Constitution ratified 3. Civil War 4. Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo/Mexican Cession 5. Slavery abolished, 1865 (NOT Emanc. Procl.) 6. Indian/U.S. Army wars, 1870-1890 7. World War II 8. Great Depression/Vietnam War (tied) 9. World Trade Center attack (if the war drags on) 10. World War I/women getting the vote/British invasion of 1812 (tied)Julie Leininger Pycior Assoc. Prof. of History, Manhattan College
GET OFF OUR HIGH HORSES
I hope it is at least one of. I hope people, including me, get off our high horses and start to concern ourselves with affairs outside our immediate vicinity. Before this occured I neither knew, nor really had an interest in, what our government was doing internationally. I had absolutely know idea what our current, or past, foreign policy was. Hopefully we'll all take an interest and speak up when our government is doing things not in the interests of the foreigners, not in the interest of the people, but solely in the interest of themselves.
Jennifer Freeman
OVERBLOWN PREDICTION
Was Larry King serious? No I couldn't even put it in my top five"events" just yet. Beyond extra security measures on planes, greater security and survelliance measures, and an anthrax scare, we still have no clue how 9-11 will play out. For an event to make the list, it must be a nation altering event, one that alters America's culture, social relations, economy, international position, or politics. I don't see any of those changes right now. It is just too soon for Larry King or historians to make such an overblown prediction. Any of the following events (I'm defining the term broadly) still out rank 9-11:
1) Emancipation Proclamation. 2) Pearl Harbor 3) Boston Tea Party/Lexington and Concord 4) California Gold Rush 5) Invention of the light bulb (or any one of a dozen other inventions that changed how we live) 6) Women's right to vote 7) Brown v. Board of Ed and/or 1964 Civil Rights Act 8) 1929 Stock Market Crash 9) Louisiana Purchase 10) Gulf of Tonkin IncidentThomas Wellock Associate Professor & Chair, Department of History Central Washington University, Ellensburg, WA
RELUCTANT TO SAY
Too soon to tell. Reluctant to say too little about 9/11/01, but more reluctant to say too much. The Declaration of Independence, Valley Forge, several"moments" during the Civil War, and a substantial number of other"turning points" come to mind.
John Piper
MOST IMPORTANT EVENT
The Civil War and Emancipation combined was the most important event in United States history.
Harold S. Forsythe
UTTER NONSENSE
It is obvious that Larry King does not have a clue as to what is significance in historic events. Did he really mean to say that the World Trade Center tragedy had more influence upon our nation and its development than, say, the American Revolution, or the Civil War, or the Cold War with the Soviet Union? Does he really want the country to believe that an act of aggression against the United States had more of an effect upon the country than, say, the Market Revolution, the Civil Rights and Counterculture movements?
What is regrettable is the level with which people believe such utter nonsense. Yet, when you decrease the importance of education--particularly history education stripped of the legends, lies, and cherished myths perpetrated by gods of marble--the end result is ignorance and stupidity. Statements like the one that Larry King made over the weekend is not a demonstration of this adage, but a call to remedy this affliction before the United States goes the way of the do-do because of its inability to produce educated leaders with depth and foresight gained from study and reflection.
Dr. Michael J. C. Taylor Assistant Professor of History Dickinson State UniversityCLEVER, NOT SMART
Why would anything Larry King says catch your attention? The man is a pandering idiot. He makes a living by brown-nosing the rich and famous. And while he may be clever, he is not that smart. Otherwise he wouldn't make such asinine remarks.
As for events more important in our history? The day an American colonist first fired a musket at a British soldier. The writing and signing of the Declaration of Independence. The ratification of our Constitution. The surrender of Cornwall. The seccession of the Southern states. The surrender of Lee. The Louisiana Purchase. The dropping of nuclear bombs on Japan. The day Martin Luther King Jr. thought"I am tired of taking this crap and I am going to do something about it." U.S troops are committed to combat in Viet Nam.
That's only ten, but there are plenty more that are more important in our history than the little wake-up call delivered to us on Sept. 11. 6,000 dead? Hell, we've been killing more Iraqi children each month for the past six years. What's more important is how the event is being used by our reprehensible leaders as an excuse to abrogate our Constitutional rights. It's the aftermath of Sept. 11 that are going to be important in our history.
Agustin Goba
ABBREVIATED TOP TEN
1. D of I 2. Constitution 3. L. Purchase 4. Civil War (13 14 15 amnd.) 5. New Deal 6. 12/7/41 7. A Bomb 8. Election of 1912 9. V E and V J days 10. 9/11/01Natt Coffman
CRITICAL EVENTS TO CONSIDER
I don't know why I am wasting time commenting on Larry King's opinion, but since you ask, I recommend forgetting it. Why is it more important than the signing of the declaration of independence? Why is is more important the firing on Fort Sumter? There are a number of other critical events having to do with the defining and shaping of the United States one might also consider. The events of September 11th were outrageous and atrocious. The spreading of anthrax bacteria is insidious and ugly. But these attacks on our country simply challenge us in a way that has now been defined as a military problem.
Russell Cort
CORE OF THE CONFLICT
I believe that the word important is problematic. How can this be more important than the promulgation of the U.S. Constitution which, at some level, can be blamed for the attacks? After all it is infused with liberal capitalist Enlightenment ideals that seem to be at the root of the fundamentalist Muslims' complaints. I do believe, however, the September 11 attacks are the most audacious event in American history. Certainly it supplants Paul Revere's ride (whether or not it really occurred), the ambush of the redcoats at Lexington and Concord, the burning of the President's Mansion during the War of 1812, the founding of the national park system, Pearl Harbor, or D-Day for its astonishing effects on society and the economy. Ultimately the importance of the event may well be judged by the quality of the reaction to the event. How will the American culture, if such a thing exists, react to Muslims, abrogation of civil rights at home, flying, capitalist exploitation of third-world labor, Israel, Palestine, oil, and a range of other issues that seem to be at the core of the conflict?
David P. Dewar Senior Instructor, Humanities and Western Civilization Program The University of Kansas, Lawrence, KSVOTE FOR FORT SUMTER
With all due respect to Larry King, instead I'd vote for the attack on Fort Sumter that began the Civil War.
Susan S. Rugh Assistant Professor Department of History Brigham Young University, Provo, UTHOW CAN ANYBODY TELL?
What a stupid, ahistorical question. How can anybody tell at this point what the significance of this event will be in the overall story of American History?
Arwen Palmer MohunTEN MOST IMPORTANT DATES IN U.S. HISTORY
1) September 17, 1787. New Hampshire is the 9th state to ratify the Constitution. The nation as we know it is created.
2) February 24, 1803. Supreme Court defines its role by overturning a federal law in Marbury v. Madison. The Supreme Court becomes an equal partner in power-sharing in the young government.
3) December 20, 1803. U.S. purchase of Louisiana Territory from Napoleon takes effect. In one act, Jefferson undermines his own strict constructionism, doubles the size of the nation, and establishes a precedent of territorial expansion.
5) July 14, 1853. Commodore Matthew Perry arrives in Japan. The opening of Japan to the rest of the world was the first major foreign policy act outside of the Americas by the nation, proving that the Monroe Doctrine was only the beginning.
4) July 4, 1863. Vicksburg and control of Mississippi River falls to Federal troops while Confederates withdraw from Pennsylvania after loss at Gettysburg. The Civil War, and the long struggle between slavery and abolition forces, are decided in the span of four days. The war would be straight downhill for the South from this point on.
5) May 18, 1896. Supreme Court rules in Plessy v. Ferguson that racial segregation was constitutional if"separate but equal." Most of the substantial gains for blacks during Reconstruction are erased.
7) January 8, 1918. President Wilson sets out 14 Points. Wilson justifies the war to the world and American people and establishes a precedent of fighting for democracy, an abstract, rather than specific national interest.
8) May 24, 1941. President Roosevelt proclaims unlimited National Emergency. With this and the passage of the Lend-Lease Act, U.S. involvement in the growing world conflict is inevitable.
9) December 2, 1942. Nuclear fission achieved at University of Chicago. With the harnessing of atomic power, the U.S. cements its role as the dominant world power. The Soviets would explode an A-bomb in 1949 and the ability of mankind to destroy itself becomes a distinct possibility.
10) October 2, 1953. President Eisenhower appoints Earl Warren as Chief Justice of Supreme Court. Most of the social changes of the last fifty years can be traced to this foolish (for a conservative) decision by Eisenhower to appoint his favorite governor straight to the Chief Justice's seat.
Nathan Williams University of Washington HNN internNOT THE MOST IMPORTANT EVENT
Although I agree that 9-11 was/is important, I do not think it is the most important event in American history. I think the entire Civil War and particularly the Battle of Gettysburg rank right up there along with Pearl Harbor and the British surrender at Yorktown.
Becky Kelley
TOP TWENTY-FOUR EVENTS
1. The Declaration of Independence 2. Victory at Yorktown 3. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights 4. The Louisana Purchase 5. The Treaty of Guadalupe-Hildago 6. The Fugitive Slave Act 7. The Civil War 8. The Great Compromise of 1876 9. The US Enters WWI 10. The creation of Aramco 11. The Crash of '29 12. The US enters WW2 13. The coming of the Atomic Age 14. The US emerges as Western hegemon 15. The Marsall Plan 16. The Fall of Saigon: The demise of the domino theory. 17. Watergate 18. The US begins negotiations with the Russians to control nuclear arms 19. The Yom Kippur War 20. The Republican party conspires with Teheran to betray the sitting president by delaying the release of US hostages until after the investiture of Ronald Reagan. 21. The Internet 22 Nafta 23. The failure of risky US policies in the Middle East (09/11/01). 24. The failure of globalism.Sally Quinn