Is W. the Biggest Liar Since LBJ?

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Mr. Carpenter is working on a book about American demagoguery. He is a columnist for HNN.

Not since the Johnson-Nixon era has an American president's credibility been so abysmal. Persistent lies about foreign policy -- how we got into Vietnam, why we were staying in and how we were faring militarily and politically -- forced early retirement on a discredited LBJ. Even Lyndon had had enough, already. And though Richard Nixon ran with experts when it came to foreign policy fibs, the fatuous cover-up of domestic misdemeanors chiefly strangled his credibility and finally sent him packing.

Assuming presidential history is still taught in some high schools, the above, I imagine, is at least the bare minimum that most students are asked to retain into adulthood: Johnson…Vietnam…lies…downfall; Nixon…Watergate…lies….downfall. Future history students, however, shall have an even easier time of it when asked to recall the gist of George W. Bush's downfall: He lied about everything.

Historical simplicity, which inattentive high schoolers and 43 himself love so much, is usually easy to complicate. But Bush is laying such a chronically recidivist path of policy misrepresentations and deliberate deceit, he is making retrospective clarity -- the holy historical grail -- possible. As growing majorities throughout the world find Bush truly in-credible, his credibility gap also expands at home. If it continues to swell into 2004 … well, that is why half the Democratic Party can be found only in Iowa and New Hampshire these days.

One could start tracking the president's in-credibility trail by ticking off the many policy bait and switches committed in short transitional order, from campaign Bush to Oval Office Bush, but limited space prevents. Let it suffice that for the already suspicious as well as the unsuspecting, early and abrupt reversals of advertised policy laid bare that this president's interest in credibility would take a back seat to his hard-right, almost childlike, ideology.

Yet as it turns out, those were the good old days. Compared to the president's erratic course of the last few months, Bush II's Phase I was a model of political chastity. The White House has now abandoned even the pretense of critical logic and thoughtful moderation -- in a word, credibility -- on both domestic and foreign policy. The nation and the world find themselves captive to the mysterious fixations of the president's mental rigor mortis.

At home, Bush's 5-volume projected budget reads like an advanced study in fiscal suicide. While the budget excludes little line items such as the cost of war in Iraq, the cost of rebuilding Iraq, the cost of military operations in Afghanistan and the cost of future tax changes, the White House still casually tells us to expect a bit of revenue shortfall over the next 5 years -- roughly, let's say, oh, somewhere in the neighborhood of around $1.1 trillion. What goes to credibility, however, is that 2 years ago the White House puffed the Laffer-ble prediction that its fiscal policies would ensure a 1.5-trillion-dollar surplus, especially, of course, since it was slashing revenues.

Even more to the issue of credibility, Bush, in last year's State of the Union address, proclaimed that the "budget will run a deficit that will be small and short lived." To refresh, that came after the administration began realizing terrorism's fiscal impact, during a recession's negative-revenue effects, and during the administration's sights-setting on Iraq (the ultimate costs of which have been estimated at anywhere from $120 billion to $2 trillion).

As for foreign policy credibility? Face it, George: When French criticism starts making sense, you know you're soupe.

The president has buck-and-winged around the putative inexorable logic of war to the point of global ridicule and contempt. If it is Monday and the sun is shining, Bush calls the world to arms because Saddam is a despotic barbarian; if Tuesday and cloudy, because the swarthy rodent possesses wicked WMDs. Given other days of the week and climate conditions, we are exhorted to pounce militarily because Saddam is in league with al Qaeda; he might be in league with al Qaeda; he might opt to be in league with al Qaeda; he has an unhealthy interest in chemistry; he is, by implication, the only national leader in defiance of a United Nations resolution; Colin Powell has a photo collection; and so on, and so on. If one motive fails to catch fire with the public, the White House simply trots out another. A single motive or consistent combination of motives might have inspired, but the White House's hysterical explanations de jour have only managed to eviscerate the one essential of broad-based war-making support: credibility.

But then again, the White House could hardly air the fundamental reasons behind its martial spirit: that war is a dandy distraction from carrying out domestic policies contrary to good sense, and that the administration harbors a fanatical band of jingoistic ideologues who have wet-dreamed of this war since Papa wimped out in 1991. At a Camp David meeting just four days after al Qaeda's deadly assault of 9/11, for example, testosterone-pumped Donald Rumsfeld piped up with, "Is this the time to attack Iraq?" Note his use of the definite article, "the" time. Once a pretext availed, the fix was in.

One of the many potentially tragic repercussions from Bush & Co.'s credibility abyss is wholesale public cynicism in the event of an actual threat. Code red? Will anyone be more alert? The boy from Crawford has cried wolf so often, next time -- "the" time -- perhaps no one will listen.



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james grogan - 7/19/2004

bush did lie i voted for him . iwant do that again.


Tom Lengner - 7/24/2003

Oh, and by the way, before you start changing peoples names to get a rise out of yourself (Mush Dimbaugh, etc.), you ought to bitch slap yo' mama and daddy for giving you a name like Clarence.


Tom Lengner - 7/24/2003

Here's one of many; After the Republican's (led by Newt Gingrich) were voted into power in '94 and promised to balance the budget, Clinton decided it was high time to abandon his constituents and jump on the band wagon. To his his credit he was not going to let those rascally Republican's take credit for fiscal responsibility. It only took me about 3 milliseconds to think of that one.

Oh and those pesky FBI files. How did they end up there. HMMMMM...

The point is I could go on just off the top of my head. Please don't be so partisan as to try to convince ANYONE that Clinton was a truthful person. NOONE is that stupid, not even your left wing buddies.

I will concede that W. has certainly done his fair share of 'spinning the truth'. But to say that Clinton did not lie about anything but Monica Lewinsky is about as untruthful as you claim W. is. Bubba would be sooooooo proud.

And as far as that ridiculous list, you really ought to look at yourself and figure out what it is in your head that makes you think the way you do. I hear there is medicine available for your condition.


Tom Lengner - 7/24/2003

I felt I had to respond, Clarence. I came by your list while surfing today, so I don't know how timely this will be but, what the heck. You have quite an extraordinary collection going there. I must say, however, I have a hard time swallowing it. One suggestion is to not site anything the White House says about the economy as lies. Having a degree in economics I can say that before you cast judgement about a projection made by anybody, DON'T. As far as some others, Ken Lay did contribute to many Democratic campaigns including Gores. Spending on education has increased dramatically since the Bush team has been around (as it has, unfortunately, every year for forever). In point of fact, your list of lies seem to be mostly made up of disagreements you have with policy. If need be I will go through the entire list but it doesn't seem necessary because from what I have gone through, there is nothing to respond to.


Josh Greenland - 3/4/2003

"I'm still trying to figure out how American infantry with small arms could be threatened by roving bands of machete-carrying thugs."

That's exactly what happened in the Phillipes, leading to the US Army adopting the Colt's 1911 .45 pistol.

"When you stack up the lies of Bush, and place them next to the pile of close to 1,000,000 dead Rwandans, it brings their relative moral significance into sharp relief."

Granting for the moment that Clinton is to blame for the almost 1m dead Rwandans, Bush has not had the 8 years as president that Clinton did, and a lot can still happen.


Richard Henry Morgan - 3/3/2003

"Exactly my point. Our military prefers to use high tech weaponry that keeps our soldiers safe. That's why we were unlikely to do anything in Rwanda, our high tech was useless. To do anything, we would have had to risk soldiers, and that was unpopular."

I'm still trying to figure out how American infantry with small arms could be threatened by roving bands of machete-carrying thugs. It wasn't an easy choice. He could have made the unpopular choice, a choice quite likely that would have failed to pass Congressional muster. He decided not to fight the good fight. Period. He shares the blame with a lot of people. When you stack up the lies of Bush, and place them next to the pile of close to 1,000,000 dead Rwandans, it brings their relative moral significance into sharp relief.


Gary Robeson - 3/3/2003

>The United States is not and will not act unilaterally in this conflict.

The coalition of the bribed? If you have buy your friends you don't really have any friends at all.

It's just England and a dozen inconsequential me-too nations that are hoping for a handout. ( not to insult Australia, but they really don't have that much influence. )

Only time will tell, Mr Modern Man with the ancient nickname. There will most likely be unexpected developments still.

Of course, the great thing about being a right-winger these days is never having to say you were wrong, because right-wing media forgives and forgets all.


Gary Robeson - 3/3/2003

>but depleted uranium shells are used against armor, and the killers used machetes.

Exactly my point. Our military prefers to use high tech weaponry that keeps our soldiers safe. That's why we were unlikely to do anything in Rwanda, our high tech was useless. To do anything, we would have had to risk soldiers, and that was unpopular.

It's easy and fun to blame Clinton. He had little choice. Of course, if he had the Washington media on his side like Bush does, that would have changed matters.

Clarence, don't hold your breath. Saying Clinton was a liar without providing any significant non-Monica examples is all the right-wingers can do. If they didn't own the media, no one would believe them. Unfortunately, most Americans are intellectually *lazy*.


Bill S. - 3/2/2003

ENOUGH ALL READY -- CAN NOT YOU PEOPLE OF PROFESSED KNOWLEDGE QUIT COMPLAINING OF HOW EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG. I am trying to learn and twice now, person's of obvious intellect have done nothing but condemn others for not knowing what they (the intellectual) know. Let me know what you know, expound on what someone else builds. Add information or counter with your understanding of the facts. But it does NO GOOD FOR ANYONE BUT YOU, to provide nothing more than your proclaimed fact that we know less than you do.


Bill S. - 3/2/2003

I am assuming P S Bradley, that if you are aware of Bush's putative misuse of history (ie: you know of it's existence but are looking for more "insight"), could you not have done better by contributing your awareness of that putative misuse(s) and thus, contribute to the knowledge of readers of Mr. Carpenter's article, rather than your fanciful declaration of how deplorable a windy diatribe Mr. Carpenter's article was (and then having the conceitedness to imply that those who participate in reading the article are doing nothing more than having a liberal "whine-fest").

Obviously (?), you have already, insights that are greater than those proclaimed by the author. Help us, who are less knowledgeable , by being a contributor. We would likely gain much more from your wisdom, than your attempt of a windy diatribe


Someone who was there - 3/2/2003

150. “I visited the Space Center in Houston while Governor”. No you did not . Why does this BOY say such things?

Funny because I was there when he Space Center in Houston...


clarence swinney - 3/2/2003

Clinton did something no other president had guts to do.

He put his campaign promises in a book in 1992. "Putting People First"

I Checked his action on the 58. He took action on 56 in his first two years. He did not, of course, get all of them passed.

The Washington Post listed 162 promises Clinton had made during the campaign. He took action on 96% the first two years.

I love it when people say first two years were "nothing years" for Clinton. Wow!

Clinton has second best record for getting his legislation passed in the first two years. 88% & 86%. Only LBJ had a better record.

I have challenged all to let me know of one LIE Clinton told about his policies. ONE. A professor tried to list five. Not lies. A lie is when you intend to deceive.

Bush has made many LIES on his policies. See my post of 156 lies.

I challenge any reader of this post to tell me of a lie Clinton made on policy. ONE.
clarence swinney


clarence swinney - 3/2/2003

I posted 156 with several more to come.

The book--Ronald Reagan-"There he goes again" listed over
300 lies

Bush LIES with no logic, need or reasoning.

It seems that when he is contested his first reaction is to lie
clarence swinney


clarence swinney - 3/2/2003

CLARENCE SWINNEY INTRODUCTION TO LIST OF BUSH & STAFF LIES

DEFINE A LIE AS—AN INTENT TO DECEIVE—KEY WORD IS INTENT

For example, when Bill Clinton promised a Middle Class Tax Cut he did not lie for he intended to give one.
Yet he was castigated, unmercifully, by Republicans as having lied.


Some of my list can be so interpreted. It will be up to each individual to make the decision.

Bush definitely lied when he said he got a Patient’s Bill Of Rights passed in Texas. It was an intent to deceive.
When he said his 2001 Tax Cut went primarily to the lower income tax payers he lied. He knew the bottom 60% got15%. That is no majority Buster.

You make the decision. Bill Clinton was falsely accused of lying when he was not intending to deceive his
readers or listeners.

The All Time Liar is Mush Dimbaugh. He said FAIR listened to 4,000 hours of his transcripts and found 45 little errors. A Joke. When the audit by Fair is extrapolated it comes to 10,400 LIES. I assure you that given 4,000 hours of his junk I could easily find 10,000 to 20,000 LIES. Intents to Deceive.

I have many details but attempt to be as brief as possible for I assume that most of readers of this list will have
knowledge of each item.

Details of any item can be received by writing Clarence Swinney at P.O. Box 3411
Burlington NC-27215—Please quote me and help spread this information



FAIR & BALANCED—YOU DECIDE-------------------------------------------------

-----------------------BUSH & STAFF LIES-----

1. I passed a Patients Bill Of Rights as Governor
2. Trifecta
3. Compassionate Conservative
4. Action Administration
5. Al Gore lied on Internet
6. Al Gore lied on Love Canal
7. Al Gore lied on Love Story
8. Al Gore lied on Farm Work
9. Open Administration
10. I will protect the environment
11. I will retain regulations on CO2
12. Dad and I will be first two Environmental presidents
13. I will increase funding for libraries
14. I will Leave No Child behind—just the funding
15. I will be the Education President
16. I will restore Honor-Dignity-Integrity to the White House
17. I will continue to balance the budget
18. I will put Social Security in a Lock Box
19. I will increase the Pell Grant Maximum Award
20. My Tax Cuts will not create deficits even in a recession
21. I will fully fund LIHEAP—low income energy program
22. I will listen to sound science and “local” officials before deciding on Yucca Mountain
23. I will make higher education more accessible by helping students with costs.
24. My administration will have transparency
25. I am the type of person who will not change his mind once he makes it up.
This bozo best not read my long list of Waffles soon to be posted.
26. I have been to WAR
27. I will provide 20 Billion for World Trade center
28. I gave the citizens a Tax Refund. Loan not a refund. Democrats program.
29. Iran and North Korea have been allies against us.
30. Hear me once and hear me clear. Promises made are promises kept.
My Waffle list takes care of this very childish remark.
31. Saddam kicked inspectors out of Iraq. He ordered USA Spies to leave but stated over and over that others could stay.
32. I knew nothing about a possible attack. One of all time shameful lies. Eight months later Oh! I knew plenty.
33. We warned the FAA, Airlines and Pilots. Pilots interviewed said they were never warned.
34. Ashcroft—We captured a terrorist who was planning to plant dirty bombs.
35. Air Force I was under attack
36. I saw the first plane hit before I went into the classroom.
37. I will fully fund Low Income Housing Assistance
38. I will provide affordable prescription benefits for ”all” seniors
39. I will pay down a record amount of the federal debt. Up is down to this BOY.
40. The largest percentage increase in my budget is for education
41. Education will be my number one priority—after millionaires
42. I do not take cues from anyone. Except Karl, Karen and Dick. Is this boy mature or ?
43. Finding to Congress to slaughter Afghans. Lied by omission. No mention of removal of Taliban
44. I will not Nation Build
45. I do not need a Resolution from the UN. Too much yelling so better get one
46. Palm Beach County was a Pat Buchanan stronghold.
47. Clinton people did an estimated $200,000 damage to White House
48. Clinton people robbed Air Force I
49. Middle East slaughter is Clinton fault for working too hard for peace
50. North Korea restarting Nuke Program Clinton fault
51. We have the strongest Military in history. Bubba, you performed miracles. You campaigned on it
being so weak.
52. I will be strict on federal spending. Except for millionaires in weapons manufacturing
53. Alabama Duty—I was there on a temporary assignment and fulfilled my weekends. Phantom boy.
54. Dan Bartlett—Bush spokesman—He pulled his drills in Alabama. Since he wasn’t flying he was
doing odds and ends under different supervisors whose names he cannot recall.
They can’t remember him either Danny boy.
55. I was no longer flying F-102 jets because they were being replaced by a different fighter..
56. Aide—He did not take a physical because his physician was in Houston and he was in Alabama.
Try again. Personal physician cannot give the examination.
57. After I completed flight training in 1970 I kept flying with my unit for the next several years.
Try 22 months Boy.
58. Cheney lied on Halliburton transactions with Iraq.
59. Immediately upon taking office I will transfer the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem..
60. I will Jawbone Opec to open the wells. Go get em Rambo.
61. I will have a humble foreign policy. I would dread seeing an arrogant one.
62. I will have a bipartisan administration. What would his partisan one look like
63. Sharon is a Man of Peace. Did you read history Boy.
64. I looked into Putin’s soul. Put this boy into x-ray business.
65. Paul O’Neill—I sold no Alcoa stock when I was CEO. Try 627,547 shares
66. Iraq has a fleet of unmanned planes which could be targeted at the United States.
This boy snorting again ? Let us see. It will take 2,000 refuelings to get here.
67. We have proof Al Queda has been involved with Iraq. Show it.
68. Elliott Abrams is a convicted liar. Right at home with this crowd.
69. John Poindexter is a convicted liar. He just cannot remember.
70. Karl Rove lied on Salvation Army deal.
71. I will put an end to permanent campaigning. I will do only six days each week.
72. I will not use polls. Just weekly.
73. Senator Baucus does not like free trade. He is an isolationist and protectionist.
74. The president did not try to intervene in the GE-Honeywell deal in England.
Well, maybe a little bit.
75. Mitch Daniels—biggie on Clinton night deposits. These guys born with evilness?
76. We will move on from Clinton. Except for Marc Rich.
77. U.S. air strikes in Iraq have been routine. Pentagon disagrees.
78. Majority of my tax cuts goes to lower income. Boy, 15% to lower 60% ain’t majority.
79. I am matching a trillion tax cut with a trillion cut in spending.
80. Harken Energy sale of sock—records show a deliberate lie
81. Dropping top rate from 39.6% to 33% will serve as a stimulus to 9.4 million
small business owners. Sho! Less than 5% pay top rate, Boy.
84. I will provide 100 million to preserve the Rain Forest. 87 million short.
Oh! I forgot you have a Business Degree form Harvard.
85. School Choice—In state of Washington he said “I stand behind school choice”.
Next stop was Concord NC. “I want to avoid some of the so called school choice issues
such as school vouchers for it would prompt an extended debate in congress”.
86. Iraq is updating their nuclear program for we can tell by them having aluminum pipes.
Experts say you are wrong boy.
87. Cheney:: ”You never save ammunition to use before an election.” Rove and Card said Oh Yes we do.
88. He was inspired by reading the masters. Well, Not exactly read them. We told him.
89. I read the EPA report. Ari :“He did not”. When Ari contradicts you it is trouble.
90. 90. Laura—“The federal records show divorce is down, weddings are up and families are coming together”
Sorry dear, you must have been looking at old records. Federal government no longer maintains
such records.
91. We did not support the Venezuelan coup
92. Nunn-Lugar
93. Anwar—only 2,000 acres will be disturbed
94. Presidential records—hiding them will make them more accessible. These guys real?
95. Ashcroft-We are able to respond to bio-terrorism attacks. Call 911.
96. Military—Help is on the way. .Sic em boys.
97. My daughter did not wear kahki’s to meet the Queen. Just a kahki jacket.
98. We have definite proof Osama Bin Laden was responsible for 9-11. If it is like Toby Blair’s ridiculous 35 page proof forget it.
99. I was never arrested.
100. We have an agreement, which will be the largest disposal of nuclear war heads in history.
Not if you use 2,200 you are putting into storage. Storing is not disposing boy
101.I believe in being held accountable. When we attacked Afghan why did you say “I’m not in charge the Pentagon is running the war”

102.Gore outspent me
103. Plants must conform to same environmental standards of regulations as in Texas.
Voluntary ain’t regulations boy.
104. My number one priority is Osama Bin Laden- dead or alive. Aw! What the heck he is irrelevant.
105. You coal miners will get help from me.
106. I got affirmative action rules in Texas. O=Nothing boy.
107. Admiral Quidly spokesman for Central Command in Afghan : We hit our targets miles away from homes.” Not according to eyewitnesses who saw friends homes take direct hits, Red Cross building, Vets hospital, wedding party, etc. Sorry Admiral. Ever hear of Admiral Poindexter? He train you?
108.Johnny Mike Spann was a hero and first patient of Afghan slaughter. No he was not. He was dead.
109. Ashcroft—550 prisoners—“It is against the law to release their names”. Three days later assistant attorney general Chertoff said “there is no specific law barring disclosure of names”.
110. Gonzales—Mary Francs Berry said he lied to her over seating a commissioner on her commission.
111. Mitch Daniels-Economic slow down is due to war on terror and not tax cut. When he made statement anti-terror was small part of spending.
112. Justice Department—Lied on number of arrests and convictions for terrorism. They loaded the report with garden variety crimes with no connection to terrorism.
113.Justice said man disrupting a flight was a “domestic terrorist”. The judge laughed at the charge and called
it “ridiculous”. He said it was an obvious case of a man being very upset at his treatment by airlines.
114. IAEA
115. We will not become the police of the world. OK! Just judge, jury and executioner.
116. Gale Norton—“Governor Davis had a hand in approving offshore drilling”. Governor Davis called him a “Liar”.
117.Cheney said Tax Cut stimulated savings and investments. Proof. These boys are deep in voodoo jungle
118.AL Q is operating in Kashmir section of Pakistan. Strong denial by Pakistan so waffled away saying well we thought they were there. We had a gut feeling.
119.We should not execute anyone who is mentally retarded. Trying to save himself just in case. Executed two with IQ under 70. His ball park.
120.Cheney—In order to meet our future electrical needs we need to build one plant per week. A cutback.
121. I got the first major energy policy in history. Ever see Jimmy Carter mad. He was. Very much.
122. The sleepovers in the Texas State House were family. Oh! They gave 2.1 million to your campaign?
123. I have been off alcohol since I met Billy Graham. That video all over the internet showing you stoned at a wedding reception in 1992 was magic? 124. Mitch Daniels—The 2003 budget was built on very conservative and cautious assumptions.

124. Mitch Daniels-The 2003 budget was built on very conservative and cautious assumptions
125. OMB—appropriations of domestic programs are, or will be, the cause of long term budget problems.
126. OMB-deficits will drop significantly between 2002 and 2003
127. OMB-in it’s mid-year review it claimed the Senate domestic budget plan would reduce the president’s defense request for the 2003 budget The Senate plan included the presidents full request and OMB knew it. Why lie? These boys take the cake.
128. Padilla—Ashcroft had to reverse his claim of capturing a terrorist who was planning bio-chemical attack on us. These guys lie just to lie? They are making Reagan’s people look honest.
129. Bush claimed Al Q was planning to attack U.S. nuclear plants. No proof yet. Just spreading fear
130. Photo-op in Arizona during wildfires. ”We will help”. Still waiting.
131.Wolfowitz—We found a terrorist cell in Jacksonville, Florida. Jacksonville leaders said prove it.
Sorry guys just my gut feeling
132.Photo-op in Oregon at training center. “I will help”. A week later his budget came out cutting such training programs by 45 million.
133. Harken Energy---records show blatant lies
134. I will veto bio-terrorism bill it is too expensive. Signed it. I mean what I say.
135. Told state officials it was illegal to place limits on coverage of emergency services for the poor.
Then, put out a new policy allowing HMO’s to do just that.
136.Said his application to a Prep School was not rejected. It was. He admitted it later.
137. Said his 2001 Tax Cut was originally designed as a stimulus. In 1999 during Clinton zoom?
138. Dan Bartlett—“Since he was not flying there was no need for him to take physical”. He was grounded because he refused to take a physical. Quite plain on his record. Snort snort.
139. Campaign official—There was no special deal for him to get into the National Guard. Sho!
140. Most small business owners pay income tax at the 39.6% rate. Boy, 5% Is not most.
141. Al Q and Iraq are in cahoots
142. Lie to democratic caucus
143. Discovery of cannisters is proof Iraq is not cooperating with the inspectors
144. I am a Uniter not a Divider. Sho! Got the world united against us.
145. Ken Lay—First met him in 1994. Very stupid lie.
146. Ken Lay supported my opponent. Yuk! You are sick to make such blatant misstatements
147. Am Iraqi agent met with Al Q Mohamed Atta in Prague. Phantom meeting.
148. Condi Rice—“No one ever dreamed of such a thing as a plane being used as a bomb”
149. Ari—there will be no social security for young people. Well! I must have been wrong.

150. “I visited the Space Center in Houston while Governor”. No you did not . Why does this BOY say such things?
151. The recession began before I took office.
152. “You can’t say one thing and do another”—“ “My tax cut will not cause deficits even in a bad economy”. This BOY sane?
153. Colin Powell before UN—“The tape clearly estasblishes a connection between Osama Bin Laden and Hussein, beyond all question”. The actual tape played in it’s entirety told a very different story. I respect(ed) Colin. Why would he say such an untruth?
154. Colin showed a photo which was of a plant producing chemical weapons.. Baloney. Old plant. Only thing there is a small bakery according to a British reporter who rushed to the site since he was in the area. The reporter sent photos back to England. Seen any on our TV
155. Ari said the evidence by UN inspectors of a missile which could travel outside the 90 miles range was a breach. Iraq said nonsense. It went a few miles farther and shorter since it was unreliable. Russia said Iraq had listed it in their report and it was approved by the UN.
156. Newsday-2-23-03—Bush & Ari lied when they said The Blue Chip Forecast said the economy would grow at 3.3% this year if his tax cut passed. Randell Moore editor of the forecast said he was ”a little upset”. Then, the White House went into full ”spin”. Almost hysterical in trying to say it was something else. These guys nuts?



Gus Moner - 3/2/2003

I am amazed at the number of keystrokes spent slamming Clinton. He's history, never better put. Is any of this relevant to GWB's presidency? This man is being made "his own man" by his oil obssesed advisors. He's making his own errors (and rather big ones at that) and history will judge him without in any way, shape or form comparing him to Clinton, except to point up Clinton's term was the last of the Happy Days era, and GW followed.

Clinton's lies? Come on, Bush is threatening to destroy an entire existing world order, attacking nations, establishing dangerousprecedents for preemptive attacks, possibly dooming the UN, limiting freedom, holding thousands without due process. Clinton, Monica included, in comparison to this administration, is like a goldfish swimmming in shark infested waters!


clarence swinney - 3/2/2003

clarence swinney-first typing unediWAFFLE HOUSE------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“I say what I mean and mean what I say”
“Promises made-Promises kept”
“When I make up my mind it stays made up”
“I do not take cues from anyone”
“You can’t say one thing and do another”
“Trust me I’m a straight shooter”
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.Osama Bin Laden is my number one priority. (at least this week)
2. We need an Office of Strategic Influence (Next decade maybe)
3. I will follow the UN Resolution as long as it takes-10-27-02
10-31-02—The UN needs to act now
2-13-03—The UN needs to show courage (like I did during Vietnam.)
4. I am a strong believer in Fair Trade—(except steel and softwood lumber) (votes first)

Ed Crane—Co-Founder and President of The Cato Institute-“Everything this
administration does is political”

5, We do not need for the Homeland Security Department to be a Cabinet position.
I made up my mind on it. Boston Globe—6-9-02 “Bush Flip Flop”
6. I will get Osama Bin Laden “Dead or Alive”—(go get em cowboy)—5-13-02-(“I don’t know where he is, I have no idea and I really don’t care.) (It’s not that important. It’s not out first priority”) (“I say what I mean”). (“When I make up my mind it stays made up”).
7. I will use the bully pulpit with OPEC. (Sic em bulldog my gas now 1.65 per gallon)
Supply went down and Prices went up and (“This is just the Free Market at Work”)
8. I will never apologize to the Chinese for “stealing our plane”. Please guys! Be nice.
Return our plane. “I regret it”
9. I mean what I say—“We can expect an attack”. Each month warning. When BOY?
10. Wash. Post-2-8-03—Bush seeking a promise from IRAN (Evil) for humanitarian help
in event a slaughter is done in Afghan. (Sounds like Reagan?)
11. NYT-1-23-03—Bush (Man of steel will) “rescinding” a new policy that allowed
managed care organizations to limit and restrict coverage of emergency services for poor people on Medicaid.
12. We will not negotiate with North Korea. Wash Post 1-16-03—Bush is now willing to consider agricultural and energy aid. (Hold on! This is EVIL of axis)
13. Individual investors who borrow money to buy dividend paying stocks should be penalized.(Gosh! What did I say—I did not mean it) NYT 2-5-03
14. I mean what I say until yelling starts. Military pay increase of 2% then 4%.
Stars & Stripes-12-30-02—Bush asked Defense Dept. to lower the announced pay raise for the military from 3.7% to 2%. Finally got 4 in 2004 budget.
15. “I am tired of all the Lying and Deception”—Amen! Hallelulah! Then stop it Boy.
16. I mean what I say—I am the education president. Please. First budget increased by 1,5% which had averaged 7% increase per year over five years. (Sounds like Clinton the Educated educator to me.)
17. Wash Post-12-2-02—In June 2002 Bush promised 500 Million to fight mother-child transmission of Aids . In Aug he vetoed the first transfer of the 500 million. In 111 days since his promise 222,000 babies have been infected with Aids. (I wonder if Jesus Christ is tossing in his bed)


18. “Secretary O’Neill is doing a good job. The economy is improving. I have faith in him”. (your faith lasts two weeks boy)

19. The Homeland Security Bio-Terrorism Bill is too expensive. I will veto it. An Ok is not a veto boy.
(I mean what I say” but maybe I will not this time.)

20. I do not approve of an Independent Investigation of 9-11. (“I mean what I say” but—yelling is too loud).

21. I am against international money laundering controls. (9-11—“I changed my steel mind”) They may catch daddy.

22. We will have major social security changes. Wash Post. 11-11-01—Andrew Card on Meet the Press on 11-10-02 “I am not sure we will reform it” This was a Centerpiece of his campaign..

23. 12-30-02—We will not tolerate a North Korean nuclear arsenal. (Act nice guys if you want our $$$)

24. We do not hit civilian targets(in Afghan). There is no evidence. (Red Cross building not civilian—Veterans Hospital is military—Warlord Party heading to Kabul to celebrate was armed with .22 rifles—Wedding Party was violent and firing in the air at our planes 20,000 feet above them)

25. Wash Posr-11-15-02—“If you are not happy with the administration’s policy toward Iraq at any given moment just wait a week or two. A new policy, more your liking, is bound to appear”.

A. Go it alone week
B. Let us wait for UN week
C. “regime change” is goal
D. remove wmd is goal
E. Secretary of State is nor speaking for the president
F. Attorney General is not speaking for the administration.
G. I am sick and tired of this waffling and waiting.


26. Steel Tariff—I really did not mean that much. I angered some people. Reduce it.
(When I make up my mind it stays made up)
27. Carbon Dioxide is a power plant pollutant I will control.. (Oh! It will be too costly to my energy contributors so forget it suckers—cough cough)
28. Reuters-6-26-02—‘I have confidence in the Palestinians when they understand we are saying they must make the right decisions”—“I can assure you we will not be putting money into a society which is not transparent and which is corrupt”.


(Was he referring to his administration? Sounds like it—transparent—corrupt)

29. I am against human cloning in any form. (well, not quite “any”)
30. “I knew nothing about dangers of 9-11”. Eight months later. “I knew a damn bunch (but I was too busy on Vacation and looking for more to blame on that President who stomped my dad. Darn it is tough being dumb, inarticulate and following such a brain and great success)
31. “I am in excellent physical condition.” (Darn, staying up till midnight in Paris zapped all my energy—Boy—try conditioning your mind))
32. I am on top of everything. (Why did you say twice on TV—“I am not in control the Pentagon is running the War (Afghan)—You have a White House base—same as Al Qaeda. Only more secretive)
33. I will veto bill increasing benefits for disabled military retirees (Yep!He was war hero.. 6-20-02 in Wash Post. I do not change my mind. Until 2004 Budget).
34. 6-14-02—released 23,653 of ”cherry picked” Reagan papers after refusing to do it. “When I make up my mind it stays made up” Is this BOY real ?”
35. I mean what I say—‘I will provide 100 million to help preserve the Rain Forest”
36. Budgeted funds for his dad’s Crusader cannon then demanded that Congress kill the big sucker.
37. Airline Security is very important to me. Then, why did you fight so hard to keep guns out of cockpits?
38. Barred part-time Mexican and Canadian students from U.S. schools after 9-11. Then, after howls reversed his decision. “When I make up my mind”
39. Simon (candidate for Gov. of California). “He is a breath of fresh air.”
Bush sho hated that California Smog for he avoided Simon while in his presence.
40. “I will not engage in bailing out countries.” 30 billion to Brazil just a tip?
41. NY Times-Richard Stevenson-2-14-03—“Bush eases Ban on AIDS money to pro-abortion groups broad.. What will he tell Falwell?

.






ted--


clarence swinney - 3/2/2003

Please publish.CLARENCE SWINNEY INTRODUCTION TO LIST OF BUSH & STAFF LIES

DEFINE A LIE AS—AN INTENT TO DECEIVE—KEY WORD IS INTENT

For example, when Bill Clinton promised a Middle Class Tax Cut he did not lie for he intended to give one.
Yet he was castigated, unmercifully, by Republicans as having lied.


Some of my list can be so interpreted. It will be up to each individual to make the decision.

Bush definitely lied when he said he got a Patient’s Bill Of Rights passed in Texas. It was an intent to deceive.
When he said his 2001 Tax Cut went primarily to the lower income tax payers he lied. He knew the bottom 60% got15%. That is no majority Buster.

You make the decision. Bill Clinton was falsely accused of lying when he was not intending to deceive his
readers or listeners.

The All Time Liar is Mush Dimbaugh. He said FAIR listened to 4,000 hours of his transcripts and found 45 little errors. A Joke. When the audit by Fair is extrapolated it comes to 10,400 LIES. I assure you that given 4,000 hours of his junk I could easily find 10,000 to 20,000 LIES. Intents to Deceive.

I have many details but attempt to be as brief as possible for I assume that most of readers of this list will have
knowledge of each item.

Details of any item can be received by writing Clarence Swinney at P.O. Box 3411
Burlington NC-27215—Please quote me and help spread this information



FAIR & BALANCED—YOU DECIDE-------------------------------------------------

-----------------------BUSH & STAFF LIES-----

1. I passed a Patients Bill Of Rights as Governor
2. Trifecta
3. Compassionate Conservative
4. Action Administration
5. Al Gore lied on Internet
6. Al Gore lied on Love Canal
7. Al Gore lied on Love Story
8. Al Gore lied on Farm Work
9. Open Administration
10. I will protect the environment
11. I will retain regulations on CO2
12. Dad and I will be first two Environmental presidents
13. I will increase funding for libraries
14. I will Leave No Child behind—just the funding
15. I will be the Education President
16. I will restore Honor-Dignity-Integrity to the White House
17. I will continue to balance the budget
18. I will put Social Security in a Lock Box
19. I will increase the Pell Grant Maximum Award
20. My Tax Cuts will not create deficits even in a recession
21. I will fully fund LIHEAP—low income energy program
22. I will listen to sound science and “local” officials before deciding on Yucca Mountain
23. I will make higher education more accessible by helping students with costs.
24. My administration will have transparency
25. I am the type of person who will not change his mind once he makes it up.
This bozo best not read my long list of Waffles soon to be posted.
26. I have been to WAR
27. I will provide 20 Billion for World Trade center
28. I gave the citizens a Tax Refund. Loan not a refund. Democrats program.
29. Iran and North Korea have been allies against us.
30. Hear me once and hear me clear. Promises made are promises kept.
My Waffle list takes care of this very childish remark.
31. Saddam kicked inspectors out of Iraq. He ordered USA Spies to leave but stated over and over that others could stay.
32. I knew nothing about a possible attack. One of all time shameful lies. Eight months later Oh! I knew plenty.
33. We warned the FAA, Airlines and Pilots. Pilots interviewed said they were never warned.
34. Ashcroft—We captured a terrorist who was planning to plant dirty bombs.
35. Air Force I was under attack
36. I saw the first plane hit before I went into the classroom.
37. I will fully fund Low Income Housing Assistance
38. I will provide affordable prescription benefits for ”all” seniors
39. I will pay down a record amount of the federal debt. Up is down to this BOY.
40. The largest percentage increase in my budget is for education
41. Education will be my number one priority—after millionaires
42. I do not take cues from anyone. Except Karl, Karen and Dick. Is this boy mature or ?
43. Finding to Congress to slaughter Afghans. Lied by omission. No mention of removal of Taliban
44. I will not Nation Build
45. I do not need a Resolution from the UN. Too much yelling so better get one
46. Palm Beach County was a Pat Buchanan stronghold.
47. Clinton people did an estimated $200,000 damage to White House
48. Clinton people robbed Air Force I
49. Middle East slaughter is Clinton fault for working too hard for peace
50. North Korea restarting Nuke Program Clinton fault
51. We have the strongest Military in history. Bubba, you performed miracles. You campaigned on it
being so weak.
52. I will be strict on federal spending. Except for millionaires in weapons manufacturing
53. Alabama Duty—I was there on a temporary assignment and fulfilled my weekends. Phantom boy.
54. Dan Bartlett—Bush spokesman—He pulled his drills in Alabama. Since he wasn’t flying he was
doing odds and ends under different supervisors whose names he cannot recall.
They can’t remember him either Danny boy.
55. I was no longer flying F-102 jets because they were being replaced by a different fighter..
56. Aide—He did not take a physical because his physician was in Houston and he was in Alabama.
Try again. Personal physician cannot give the examination.
57. After I completed flight training in 1970 I kept flying with my unit for the next several years.
Try 22 months Boy.
58. Cheney lied on Halliburton transactions with Iraq.
59. Immediately upon taking office I will transfer the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem..
60. I will Jawbone Opec to open the wells. Go get em Rambo.
61. I will have a humble foreign policy. I would dread seeing an arrogant one.
62. I will have a bipartisan administration. What would his partisan one look like
63. Sharon is a Man of Peace. Did you read history Boy.
64. I looked into Putin’s soul. Put this boy into x-ray business.
65. Paul O’Neill—I sold no Alcoa stock when I was CEO. Try 627,547 shares
66. Iraq has a fleet of unmanned planes which could be targeted at the United States.
This boy snorting again ? Let us see. It will take 2,000 refuelings to get here.
67. We have proof Al Queda has been involved with Iraq. Show it.
68. Elliott Abrams is a convicted liar. Right at home with this crowd.
69. John Poindexter is a convicted liar. He just cannot remember.
70. Karl Rove lied on Salvation Army deal.
71. I will put an end to permanent campaigning. I will do only six days each week.
72. I will not use polls. Just weekly.
73. Senator Baucus does not like free trade. He is an isolationist and protectionist.
74. The president did not try to intervene in the GE-Honeywell deal in England.
Well, maybe a little bit.
75. Mitch Daniels—biggie on Clinton night deposits. These guys born with evilness?
76. We will move on from Clinton. Except for Marc Rich.
77. U.S. air strikes in Iraq have been routine. Pentagon disagrees.
78. Majority of my tax cuts goes to lower income. Boy, 15% to lower 60% ain’t majority.
79. I am matching a trillion tax cut with a trillion cut in spending.
80. Harken Energy sale of sock—records show a deliberate lie
81. Dropping top rate from 39.6% to 33% will serve as a stimulus to 9.4 million
small business owners. Sho! Less than 5% pay top rate, Boy.
84. I will provide 100 million to preserve the Rain Forest. 87 million short.
Oh! I forgot you have a Business Degree form Harvard.
85. School Choice—In state of Washington he said “I stand behind school choice”.
Next stop was Concord NC. “I want to avoid some of the so called school choice issues
such as school vouchers for it would prompt an extended debate in congress”.
86. Iraq is updating their nuclear program for we can tell by them having aluminum pipes.
Experts say you are wrong boy.
87. Cheney:: ”You never save ammunition to use before an election.” Rove and Card said Oh Yes we do.
88. He was inspired by reading the masters. Well, Not exactly read them. We told him.
89. I read the EPA report. Ari :“He did not”. When Ari contradicts you it is trouble.
90. 90. Laura—“The federal records show divorce is down, weddings are up and families are coming together”
Sorry dear, you must have been looking at old records. Federal government no longer maintains
such records.
91. We did not support the Venezuelan coup
92. Nunn-Lugar
93. Anwar—only 2,000 acres will be disturbed
94. Presidential records—hiding them will make them more accessible. These guys real?
95. Ashcroft-We are able to respond to bio-terrorism attacks. Call 911.
96. Military—Help is on the way. .Sic em boys.
97. My daughter did not wear kahki’s to meet the Queen. Just a kahki jacket.
98. We have definite proof Osama Bin Laden was responsible for 9-11. If it is like Toby Blair’s ridiculous 35 page proof forget it.
99. I was never arrested.
100. We have an agreement, which will be the largest disposal of nuclear war heads in history.
Not if you use 2,200 you are putting into storage. Storing is not disposing boy
101.I believe in being held accountable. When we attacked Afghan why did you say “I’m not in charge the Pentagon is running the war”

102.Gore outspent me
103. Plants must conform to same environmental standards of regulations as in Texas.
Voluntary ain’t regulations boy.
104. My number one priority is Osama Bin Laden- dead or alive. Aw! What the heck he is irrelevant.
105. You coal miners will get help from me.
106. I got affirmative action rules in Texas. O=Nothing boy.
107. Admiral Quidly spokesman for Central Command in Afghan : We hit our targets miles away from homes.” Not according to eyewitnesses who saw friends homes take direct hits, Red Cross building, Vets hospital, wedding party, etc. Sorry Admiral. Ever hear of Admiral Poindexter? He train you?
108.Johnny Mike Spann was a hero and first patient of Afghan slaughter. No he was not. He was dead.
109. Ashcroft—550 prisoners—“It is against the law to release their names”. Three days later assistant attorney general Chertoff said “there is no specific law barring disclosure of names”.
110. Gonzales—Mary Francs Berry said he lied to her over seating a commissioner on her commission.
111. Mitch Daniels-Economic slow down is due to war on terror and not tax cut. When he made statement anti-terror was small part of spending.
112. Justice Department—Lied on number of arrests and convictions for terrorism. They loaded the report with garden variety crimes with no connection to terrorism.
113.Justice said man disrupting a flight was a “domestic terrorist”. The judge laughed at the charge and called
it “ridiculous”. He said it was an obvious case of a man being very upset at his treatment by airlines.
114. IAEA
115. We will not become the police of the world. OK! Just judge, jury and executioner.
116. Gale Norton—“Governor Davis had a hand in approving offshore drilling”. Governor Davis called him a “Liar”.
117.Cheney said Tax Cut stimulated savings and investments. Proof. These boys are deep in voodoo jungle
118.AL Q is operating in Kashmir section of Pakistan. Strong denial by Pakistan so waffled away saying well we thought they were there. We had a gut feeling.
119.We should not execute anyone who is mentally retarded. Trying to save himself just in case. Executed two with IQ under 70. His ball park.
120.Cheney—In order to meet our future electrical needs we need to build one plant per week. A cutback.
121. I got the first major energy policy in history. Ever see Jimmy Carter mad. He was. Very much.
122. The sleepovers in the Texas State House were family. Oh! They gave 2.1 million to your campaign?
123. I have been off alcohol since I met Billy Graham. That video all over the internet showing you stoned at a wedding reception in 1992 was magic? 124. Mitch Daniels—The 2003 budget was built on very conservative and cautious assumptions.

124. Mitch Daniels-The 2003 budget was built on very conservative and cautious assumptions
125. OMB—appropriations of domestic programs are, or will be, the cause of long term budget problems.
126. OMB-deficits will drop significantly between 2002 and 2003
127. OMB-in it’s mid-year review it claimed the Senate domestic budget plan would reduce the president’s defense request for the 2003 budget The Senate plan included the presidents full request and OMB knew it. Why lie? These boys take the cake.
128. Padilla—Ashcroft had to reverse his claim of capturing a terrorist who was planning bio-chemical attack on us. These guys lie just to lie? They are making Reagan’s people look honest.
129. Bush claimed Al Q was planning to attack U.S. nuclear plants. No proof yet. Just spreading fear
130. Photo-op in Arizona during wildfires. ”We will help”. Still waiting.
131.Wolfowitz—We found a terrorist cell in Jacksonville, Florida. Jacksonville leaders said prove it.
Sorry guys just my gut feeling
132.Photo-op in Oregon at training center. “I will help”. A week later his budget came out cutting such training programs by 45 million.
133. Harken Energy---records show blatant lies
134. I will veto bio-terrorism bill it is too expensive. Signed it. I mean what I say.
135. Told state officials it was illegal to place limits on coverage of emergency services for the poor.
Then, put out a new policy allowing HMO’s to do just that.
136.Said his application to a Prep School was not rejected. It was. He admitted it later.
137. Said his 2001 Tax Cut was originally designed as a stimulus. In 1999 during Clinton zoom?
138. Dan Bartlett—“Since he was not flying there was no need for him to take physical”. He was grounded because he refused to take a physical. Quite plain on his record. Snort snort.
139. Campaign official—There was no special deal for him to get into the National Guard. Sho!
140. Most small business owners pay income tax at the 39.6% rate. Boy, 5% Is not most.
141. Al Q and Iraq are in cahoots
142. Lie to democratic caucus
143. Discovery of cannisters is proof Iraq is not cooperating with the inspectors
144. I am a Uniter not a Divider. Sho! Got the world united against us.
145. Ken Lay—First met him in 1994. Very stupid lie.
146. Ken Lay supported my opponent. Yuk! You are sick to make such blatant misstatements
147. Am Iraqi agent met with Al Q Mohamed Atta in Prague. Phantom meeting.
148. Condi Rice—“No one ever dreamed of such a thing as a plane being used as a bomb”
149. Ari—there will be no social security for young people. Well! I must have been wrong.

150. “I visited the Space Center in Houston while Governor”. No you did not . Why does this BOY say such things?
151. The recession began before I took office.
152. “You can’t say one thing and do another”—“ “My tax cut will not cause deficits even in a bad economy”. This BOY sane?
153. Colin Powell before UN—“The tape clearly estasblishes a connection between Osama Bin Laden and Hussein, beyond all question”. The actual tape played in it’s entirety told a very different story. I respect(ed) Colin. Why would he say such an untruth?
154. Colin showed a photo which was of a plant producing chemical weapons.. Baloney. Old plant. Only thing there is a small bakery according to a British reporter who rushed to the site since he was in the area. The reporter sent photos back to England. Seen any on our TV
155. Ari said the evidence by UN inspectors of a missile which could travel outside the 90 miles range was a breach. Iraq said nonsense. It went a few miles farther and shorter since it was unreliable. Russia said Iraq had listed it in their report and it was approved by the UN.
156. Newsday-2-23-03—Bush & Ari lied when they said The Blue Chip Forecast said the economy would grow at 3.3% this year if his tax cut passed. Randell Moore editor of the forecast said he was ”a little upset”. Then, the White House went into full ”spin”. Almost hysterical in trying to say it was something else. These guys nuts?


Suetonius - 3/1/2003

This canard that the United States will act unilaterally is a sad indicator of the parochial outlooks of those who oppose using military force to oust Saddam Hussein, bring liberty to his people and remove the weapons of mass destruction from Iraq.

The United States is not and will not act unilaterally in this conflict. To suggest otherwise is to admit ignorance of daily affairs.


Steve Brody - 3/1/2003


Frankly, Gary, your postings are starting to sound a little Clintonian. When a person takes the oath, as Clinton did, and then lies, that is called perjury. Now you can attempt to spin your way out of it, or deny that it's perjury and then claim that the exact argument is no longer "on the tip" of your mind, but that doesn't rally change the fact that it's perjury. Hell, even Clinton knows it was perjury. He admitted it and took the best deal he could get. Why try and parse words (ala "it depends what is, is") after Clinton already took the plea deal?

As for your ignorance as to what the "Patriot Act" actually says, that can be remedied by looking at it online. Reading some hatchet job written by someone like P M Carpenter is really no substitute for the facts.


William H. Leckie, Jr. - 3/1/2003

'Seems to me, our public discourse generally has come to a halt, rather like critics were complaining a decade ago that pop music had come to a dead-end.

I must say, though, that Clinton-bashing by the right is simply hilarious. Can't they get over him? It's like some adolescent with an unrequited crush. There must be, has to be, something erotic about the fascination rightists have for the man. That, and the sheer ethical and moral perversity that projects its own anxieities outward. And perhaps more than a bit of a reprise of the nastiness of the politics of the pre-Civil Rights South--after all, Clinton is a southerner.

My own contempt for Bush derives from my Texas upbringing (unlike George, I am a native with roots that go back to Stephen F. Austin's Old Three Hundred). I knew his type well, and so did the Mexicans, blacks, and poor whites who had to put up with them. But then, George's career just goes to show that a mediocre rich kid who never achieved anything in his life without the help of his daddy's corrupt friends can still become President. Now, that's an opportunity society! Is this a great country or what?


Richard Henry Morgan - 3/1/2003

"I would not have supported an American heavy bombing campaign followed by the heavy use of uranium depleted shells. Does this distinction make sense?"

That's awefully nice of you, but depleted uranium shells are used against armor, and the killers used machetes. Bombing is used against massed targets, not roving small bands of machete-laden thugs. And Clinton didn't have to repeat the lie over and over -- that's what he had the State Dept. for. Watch the PBS program. Clinton had a great chance to put the Republicans on the spot, but it would have required a fight, so he took a powder instead. It will rank as one of the greatest stains on the US in its history. A stain shared by Clinton, the Dems who covered for him, and the Repubs who opposed him.


P S Bradley - 2/28/2003

Every now and again I look at this site for something different. Something like history. I thought this article might have some insight about Bush's putative misuse of history. Something with meat. Instead, we get a windy diatribe that a dyspeptic High School senior could turn out. Is this site simply liberal "whine-fest."


Gary Robeson - 2/28/2003

I remember following news coverage at the time and it seems to me that the news was kind of sketchy and speculative as to just how widespread the massacre was.

Clinton was not any more honest then the average politican, but "plausable deniability" applies here.

I actually agree that we should try to prevent genocide,mass murder and torture throughout the world. If Clinton had wanted to commit American troops to Rwanda to stop the massacre, I would have supported that. I would not have supported an American heavy bombing campaign followed by the heavy use of uranium depleted shells. Does this distinction make sense?

It is pretty apparant that the Bush Bunch are using Iraqi torture charges in a cynical way. I remember a Harpers article in the early-mid 80s about what a monster Saddam was which left me wondering why the Reagan administration was so cozy with him. Saddams monstrosity was no secret. He *was* our "friend" even after gassing "his own people."

BTW, for a lie to qualify as a "big lie," it needs to be repeated by the propaganda machine over and over and over. Clinton never got the kind of press needed to tell the "big lie."


Richard Henry Morgan - 2/27/2003

The big lie was Clinton proclaiming that he didn't know what was going on in Rwanda -- it was on the front page of the NY Times. Check out the PBS tape of Clinton saying precisely that in Rwanda. The big lie was the Clinton administration proclaiming that the Genocide Convention was not triggered, as we had an example of individual acts of genocide (as the State Dept. spokesman kept saying), as opposed to genocide -- as good an example of sophism in the pursuit of doing nothing as one is likely to see.

As for neighbor on neighbor, it was actually carried out by organized mobs, such as those that descended on the UN compound and convinced a sanguine Belgian para unit to surrender their weapons in exchange for safe passage -- instead they were murdered and mutilated, the thousands of unarmed civilians with them murdered too. The solution would not have been smart bombs, but low-tech armed infantry, fanning out to excort civilians to safe areas. The US and Euro powers made a deliberate decision to stay out of the mess, to in fact deny they even knew there was a mess, and to bend the UN to that point of view.


Bill Heuisler - 2/27/2003

Mr. Geeenland,
You ask, "When in WWI did the French fold and run, leaving allies' flanks exposed? Can you remember the names of any major battles where they did this?" Yes I can. French armies functioned poorly throughout the war. But let's begin at the beginning of World War I in August of 1914.

August 20, 1914 - Alsace-Lorraine - French VIII Corps, XV Corps and XVI Corps broke contact under German infantry and artillery attacks and retreated behind the River Meurth. This retreat ended the planned French Offensive into Germany and allowed the German Sixth and Seventh Armies to go on defensive and the German reserve to wheel North and West into Belgium.

August 22, 1914 Lanrezac's Third French Army - near Verdun - collapsed into flight when its vanguard ran into unexpected German resistance and sudden bombardment overwhelmed its supporting artillery. Soon thereafter, the whole Third and Fourth Armies retired behind the River Meuse. Same result.

August 24, 1914 Lanrezac's Fifth French Army - the angle between the Meuse and Sambre at the frontier with Belgium - "Running, stumbling, crawling, the French sought cover as best they could...".* Nine French Divisions were defeated by three German and forced to retreat seven miles. This retreat on the Northern (left) French flank exposed the right flanks of Belgium Armies and The British Expeditionary Force to German envelopment.
*"The First World War" John Keegan (p.96)
The rest, as you know, was called The Schlieffen Plan.

The point, Mr. Greenland: modern French make disastrous allies.
Bill Heuisler


Gary Robeson - 2/27/2003

How would you have helped the Rwandans, Mr. Morgan? The populations were integrated, the killing was low tech and neighbor on neighbor. Cruise missiles, smart bombs and depleted Uranium rounds aren't going to accomplish much. And the only way to stop it; large numbers of ground troops engaging civilians, is exactly what Americans don't want.

I don't see how calling the Tutsis and Hutus "warring factions" is fundamentaly dishonest. Tribes are by definition factional. The Tutsis and Hutus have a history of hostility. Where's the rhetorical trickery ?

And try not to dismiss my questions with a "Gary has bought the Clinton line." evasion.
Just what was Clinton's big lie about the Rwandan massacre? I don't consider Clinton any more honest then the usual politican, which isn't saying much, I know.


VJ - 2/27/2003

Having now been contacted now by the welcome jackbooted operatives from his excellency General Ashcroft and OUR FEARLESS DEAR LEADER, I must confess the error of my ways. It is wrong to insist on ANY SORT of real, natural or democratic accountability from the current administration. That would imply falsely that they are a Democratically elected govenment. As they are not, and will wage war upon anyone who wrongly insists otherwise, they need not concern themsleves with the niceities of consensus, working with allies, or actual representation of the 'citizens' of any nation. We should be simply satisified with this; They are working for the greater liberation of the world from the tyranny of all our past histories. For that we should all be eternally grateful for the rest of our pre-shortened lives. I thank the state for this opportunity to address you all... [Choke gasp...silence?]


Gary Robeson - 2/27/2003

The French lost quite a few soldiers in WWI as well. The failure of the Versailles treaty had more to do with it's intrisic unfairness then with French weakness.

French sophistication in the matters of war might manifest itself as an awareness that most warfare is avoidable and that "unavoidable" wars are usually the result of duplicity and dishonesty in peacetime dealings.

I'm sure that to French ears, Bushes arguments for war are hypocritical and transparently demagogical. And that is sophisticated, at least more so then the 30% of Americans who support unilateral invasion.


Gary Robeson - 2/27/2003

No, Reagan was not a pathological liar, he was a kind old man whose memory was not quite what it used to be. At least, that's what the media thought, and what they think is what we must believe.

And George W. Bush isn't a liar, he's a simple living straight talker who occasionally gets insignificant facts confused. But his main point is always truly honest. Once again, you must believe that.

But Bill Clinton? That slick and slimy smooth talker never said an honest word in his life! How do we know? Because he lied about an extramartial affair, something no regular man would ever do! Once again, you must believe it, CBS,ABC,NBC,CNN,FOX,The New York Times and the Washington Post all say so!



Gary Robeson - 2/27/2003

>Clinton didn't just lie. He committed perjury.

Common wisdom, but not a fact.

I'm not going to go into the deposition and Grand Jury testimony or the twisted redefinitions the prosection gave him to use in that testimony, only because it's not on tip of my mind right now and I don't want to spend the time to search through my database.

Look it up though. Gene Lyons book is a good place to start.

Believe this too; if they had a good case to prosecute him for perjury, they would have. The plea arrangement was a face saver f or the prosecutors as well as for Clinton. The prosecuters would much prefer to have you believe he actually commited perjury then have a court of law prove that he didn't.

I'm also not going to categorize the Anti-American content and tone of the Patriot Act for you. There's a lot of online criticism that is more categorical and complete then anything I would write. Of course I have not read the entire text of the Patriot Act. I bet you have never read the entire text of the Constitution, which proves exactly nothing.

My chief issue with the "Patriot Act", other then the fact that any law with such a name is immediately suspect, is the reversal of COINTELPRO laws and the new powers to deny FOIA requests. These changes will make it legal to conduct the kind of political harrassment that Watergate made us all aware of. You might say it won't really be legal, but if abuses can't be discovered, they're unpunishable and all the flowery laws in the world can't stop secret abuses.

Before you call my position silly and hyperbolic, I suggest you read about it.



Richard Henry Morgan - 2/27/2003

Amen, Josh. And the previous poster doesn't address the active steps taken by the US to do nothing, and to prevent the UN from doing anything in Rwanda. He has bought the Clinton line, as others have bought the Reagan line, hook, line, and sinker. I do agree with the previous poster on one issue -- the Republicans would have fought him tooth and nail had he tried to do anything about Rwanda -- which explains why he folded his tent on the issue without a fight. But to call the systematic low-tech killing of unarmed civilians by machete a dispute between "warring factions" pushes language past the breaking point. Yes, the world failed on Rwanda, but they failed by following US leadership. What we don't yet have is a metric of lying. Is each lie to be judged as equally large? Or are they to be judged by their consequences?


Josh Greenland - 2/27/2003

"During the German offensives in the First World War and the Second World War, French Armies of conscripted men folded and ran, leaving their allies' flanks exposed."

I know that French troups mutineed against their officers in 1916 and refused to attack, but continued to defend against the Germans. When in WWI did the French fold and run, leaving allies' flanks exposed? Can you remember the names of any major battles where they did this?

My recollection of WWII history is that French society have been very successfully softened up before the German invasion by Nazi Fifth Columnists. The Germans were aided all the way by disloyal French RIGHTISTS. Parts of the French RIGHT was so treacherous that elements of it were chanting "Better Hitler than Blum," not long before the invasion.

So again, Mr. Heuisler, what is French military performance in WWI and WWII supposed to tell us about France's unwillingness to support Bush's war against Iraq?


Josh Greenland - 2/27/2003

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Ronald Reagan as a presidential lying contestant. He only seemed to lie when his lips were moving (as there is no evidence that he was intelligent enough to write). At the moment I am recalling the racist lie he started his 1980 campaign with, his claim that there was a "Chicago welfare queen" (read black woman) who was making $300,000 a year on welfare scams. The news media debunked that one in a matter of days. I'll always remember his GROSS lie that, through his whole career as an actor, HE NEVER WORE MAKE-UP! The news media went about very seriously debunking that one, too. It never seemed to matter, though. As many blatant falsehoods as he told, no one ever seemed to want to point out the pattern.

I think Reagan was a pathological liar, and that LBJ was one also. Bill Clinton may be one as well, though I didn't follow his presidency as closely as I had followed the Reagan one. It seems a failing that is not a respecter of ideology.


VJ - 2/27/2003

I'll try to post the links in order again:

1.) http://www.house.gov/appropriations_democrats/caughtonfilm.htm

2.) http://www.wage-slave.org/scorecard.html

3.) http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

Hopefully that will work now.


VJ - 2/27/2003

Manifestly this administration has a record of lying that is second to none. For just the simple program lies ON TAPE go here:



For some of the other numerous atrocities see:

For the wholesale assult on open government or ANY accountability for same see:

Clinton had only weeks to act to attempt to stop genocide in Rwanda. Most was accomplished in less than 100 days. The Repug's who would later refuse to endorse his actions in Kosovo OR against Serbia, would certainly have not voted for it, so soon after the disaster of Somailia. Clinton DID act in Bosnia where the Bush I had refused to for years. You can hear the echoes or TRUE appeasement from ALL of the mjor Repug leadership when it came to their opposition to any involvment in Kosovo. What would have been the reaction of Congress to the insertion of a Marine brigade told to stop one indistinguishable party in an internecine slaughter that had indeed gone on periodically for generations? How do you do that in less than a few months, during an election season? I'd say the international system failed them, we all failed them. Still Bush I failed ~200K people in the heart of Europe. That was the largest conflict since WWII on the Continent, and they shrunk from it. There never has been a successful American intervention in Africa for longer than a few days duration for good reason, (other than WW11). Clinton should not be freighted with all this BS baggage simply because he refused to put our troops inbetween warring factions 800 mi away from the most direct supply lines. Yugoslavia was on Bush's doorstep and they refused to act. It could have taken the 7th Fleet perhaps an afternoon to sink their entire Navy when they started to illegally shell undefended cities filled with civilians, but Larry Eagleburger and James Baker stood by and insisted 'we did'nt have a dog in that fight'. We had the troops practically next door in Germany. The DM was even the semi-offical currency in Yugoslavia. So I'm always amazaed with just how biased and ideologically driven most of the posters here have been against Carpenter. I think he's just about the most entertaining columnist here. And he seems to know a damn slight more history than many of the 'historians' who post here. Geez, I'm waiting for comments from Mary Rosh too on this one! I say if you're not getting a count on official lies that gets up into the double digits DAILY from this administration, you're just not paying attention! Blue Chip forcasts, Mr. Bush? The Federal Budget that will have small deficits? The coalition of the not so bribed? The tax cuts that ALWAYS magically pay for them selves? The I'm not cutting Medicare/HMO plan? The 'Clean/Sky Forest Initiative'? I agree with PM, Orwell has stopped spinning, he's achieved terminal velocity with this bunch!


Richard Henry Morgan - 2/26/2003

"Isn't is possible that the French are more wary of war, that they are wiser to the downsides then we are, having only fought one truly destructive war on our own soil?"

Funny how different people take away different lessons from the WWI. True, not much was fought on German soil, yet the Germans lost a generation. They still came back for more. The French decided not to enforce Versailles, and got another round of rough treatment for their poor military showing. As I said, different lessons. Viewed from the French side, given their experience of abject military failure, all war must seem worse than a miserable peace. I'm not sure that makes them sophisticated.

And true Chirac won't pay, and neither will France. That Chiracian outburst was the last gasp of a French bid for EU leadership, by a France about to be inundated by Eastern Europe's entry into the EU. In two generations you'll see Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic within spitting distance of the French economy.


Gary Robeson - 2/26/2003

You've become too personally emotionally invested in history,Bill. Your extremely strong and sweeping characterizations of an entire nation is indicative of a loss of objectivity.

While we can all agree the French can be snotty, the fact is they *are* a very old nation with much more history ( and awareness of that history ) then we Americans have. Isn't is possible that the French are more wary of war, that they are wiser to the downsides then we are, having only fought one truly destructive war on our own soil?

>Culture and sophistication? The French? This is a history site

Brush this bit of common wisdom aside if you like Bill, but the fact is that the French do indeed have a serious culture, and they are more sophisiticated then Americans about many things.

It's pretty common for American conservatives to deride European nations as "socialist" and "lethargic" because they don't have the same drive to enlarge their economies as we do. This is usual ugly American thinking that all other people share our priorities, in this case, money above all else.

Addressing the reactor you refer to as being built by the French, I'm not arguing for French moral superiority, that's one of the points behind my reference to the French terror.

The other point behind that reference is to address the silly idea that the French are wimps or are unfamiliar with how we felt about 9/11 or unaware of the dangers of tyranny, which are all argument/slurs recently written by the right-wing media.

To contradict you directly: It is truly quite elightened to call Bush the worst president we've ever had and to point out that the Supreme Court hijacked the completely Florida legal recount and installed Bush with laughable constitutional arguments.

Get over it? Ha! Right wingers need to over the fact that their hero is a fraud!


Gary Robeson - 2/26/2003

I stand by my position: Chirac's snide comments will have no significant effect on E.U. expansion. He's not going to pay anything for them.


Suetonius - 2/26/2003

The French press lambasted Chirac for his comments about the eastern European countries.


Arch Smith - 2/26/2003

Is this article for real?


Paul - 2/26/2003

Mr. Heuisler,

"Their fleet arrived at Yorktown in time to cut off the British and they should get credit for aiding our Independence. . ." If that is all you think the French did to help us win our independence than I suggest that you do a little research. You would be surprised that teh French did a little more than just show up at Yorktown to surround the British. But you seem to be one of those that screams "Don't those ungrateul frogs know that without us they would be speaking German right now!" But I usually retort, Without those "frogs" and their money (a lot of money), fleet, professional officers, weapons, their ability to engage the British on the continent and other foreign areas around the world tea would be the most popular drink and we would be electing representatives to the House of Lords and commons. But Bill and others like him don't look further back than the beginning of the 20th century.


Richard Henry Morgan - 2/26/2003

We seem to agree that there are differences in the significance of varying lies -- we just don't agree on which ones are which. I'm left wondering what I wrote that constituted "the same old baloney about Clinton" -- but once "over ten years of age", "Clinton-hating right wingers", and "intellectually dishonest" are thrown in for good measure, I realize I'm not going to get an argument, just a barrage.

It is (I thought) an undisputed fact that the Clinton Administration not only did nothing to stop the genocide in Rwanda, it actually twisted arms in the UN to make sure the UN did nothing either. So we are left to assess the difference between the size and frequency of lies on one hand, and their impact on the other.

Of course, this inaction came after Clinton had made much hay of the Republicans' not ratifying the Genocide Convention. My favorite moment of gross hypocrisy came during the hastily arranged $50 million boondoggle to Africa (to shore up his support with the Black Caucus during impeachment). He stopped off at the airport at Rwanda for 45 minutes, with the jet engines running the whole time. There he made a little speech about how the US didn't know what was happening in Rwanda, that it had all happened too fast for the US to do anything, and he handed out a little plaque (nice touch) and took off. The details are available at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/evil/ or in Philip Gourevitch's excellent book, We Wish To Inform You That Tomorrow We Will Be Killed With Our Families. Have a nice day.


Steve Brody - 2/26/2003


Gary, Clinton didn't just lie. He committed perjury. That’s why he can't practice law right now. Of course," all politicians must commit perjury, as do all adults".

You say the enactment of the "Patriot Act" is the greatest betrayal of American principles in the last fifty years. How? Have you read the Act? What particular clause "betrays American principles"?

For you to have made such a silly, hyperbolic statement makes me doubt you have read it.


Gary Robeson - 2/26/2003

>French are not offering a plausible alternative

Plausibility is always in the eyes of the beholder.

Of course the French can be snotty and superior and I'm sure Chirac isn't being very gracious to those ex-Soviet countries who now are ingratiating themselves to us by supporting Bush's war. But I'm not sure how much of a backlash there is. France is central to the EU and a lot closer to eastern Europe then we are.
And we have been known to be ungrateful. We often forget to cover our debts. This is also widely known.

Turkey wasn't confident of Administration promises and wanted it's money on the barrel.

I just think anyone who accuses the French of cowardace doesn't know their history. It's probably due to all those "Hogan's Hero's reruns." %}


Bill Heuisler - 2/26/2003

Mr Robeson,
Culture and sophistication? The French? This is a history site.
You've complained about the dearth of history on HNN and now you add confused ahistorical garbage to make an anti-Bush point.

The French are unpleasant, unreliable allies who have shown very little martial prowess since the Corsican "Corporal" was exiled to St. Helena. The French were responsible for undercutting the League of Nations when Anthony Eden and the Brits wanted to stop Mussolini's invasion of Ethiopia. They insisted on concessions until the Italian occupation was complete - and the League of Nations was shown up as a sham and destroyed. The French are the only country in the world whose elite military Corps is made up of mercenaries from other lands, The Foreign Legion. During the German offensives in the First World War and the Second World War, French Armies of conscripted men folded and ran, leaving their allies' flanks exposed. The French troops who held out to the end at Dien Bien Phu were Foreign Legionaires. Since Napolean the French have "conquered" very little that was not aboriginal levies and poorly armed primitives.

Their fleet arrived at Yorktown in time to cut off the British and they should get credit for aiding our Independence, but your point about the French Terror is obscure at best. A mob-fed
bloodbath in the name of liberty has no connection to Iraq.

The French have given us Saint-Saens, Ravel and Bizet, but they ruined it by spawning Foch and Sartre. The French perform a dubious service by making the Germans seem almost civilized.
Cultured and sophisticated? French scientists built the Osirak weapons-grade Nuclear reactor in Iraq twenty years ago. That's not cultured, it's criminal; not sophistication, but obscenity.

Uninlightened swipes at President Bush in the guise of worldly sophistication only reveal simplicity.
Bill Heuisler


Suetonius - 2/25/2003

Regardless of their past history, the French are not offering a plausible alternative. Continued inspections are to continue for how long? Till Hussein has fully disarmed? How on earth will we know when we've reached that stage.

If you're keeping up on current events, then you're well versed in Chirac's snide comments to the eastern European countries about their bad upbringing and their need to shut up. You'll also be aware, no doubt, of the extreme backlash this has caused throughout Europe.


Gary Robeson - 2/25/2003

>Is this a blog site or a serious site dedicated to bringing historical inquiry to contemporary affairs.

I'm curious about that too. The quality of the posting will tell.

>"When French criticism makes sense"

I have been keeping on top of current events, and the Bush administration's childish French bashing is embarrassing. Bush has a huge chip on his shoulder about culture and sophistication, as evidenced by his snide putdown of the American reporter who had the education to ask French President Chirac a question in French.

The French have fought more wars then we have, including helping us win our independence. The French Terror was more horrible then anything happening in Iraq. The French have conquered many foreign lands and established many colonies. The French have "been there" and "done that." For us to complain about their unwillingness to back this little adventure is nakedly juvenile.

But then most neo-conservatives I've met are emotional children. I do pine for the return of the principled honest conservatives of my youth.


Gary Robeson - 2/25/2003

Carpenter's polemical overload is no excuse for you to go nuclear with the same old baloney about Clinton. ( or is that knewqular? :)

All politicians must lie, of course, as must all mature adults. Most people over ten years of age learn the difference between a significant lie and an insignificant one. Clinton-hating right wingers apparantly never have learned this, or perhaps they are simply being intellectually dishonest.

Bush and Ashcroft are the true contemporary exemplars of Orwellian language. The "Patriot Act" is the greatest betrayal of American principles enacted in at least fifty years. "Compassionate Conservativsm" is neither, and "Leave no child behind" is leaving our schools underfunded and religiously biased.

On the other hand, Bush does know how hard it is to put food on your family. I believe that, I do.







Steve Brody - 2/25/2003


Dan, Wrong. The Capital Hill Blue article that scooped the Washington Post quotes "a Democratic Consultant" using exactly those words.

No liberal or even Democrat would ever write those words. Maybe not. But I noticed that you didn't claim that "no liberal or even Democrat" would ever employ that strategy.

The quoted Democratic consultant apparently didn't want his name used. I wonder why not.


David Seer - 2/25/2003

He's writing these things so that we react to them, and then he gets to use our comments in his book about how modern demogogues work!

Kinda silly though.


dan - 2/25/2003

The use of the quote "the media and other surrogates" could only be a conservato-libertarian Republican contruction. No liberal, or even Democrat, would ever write such nonsense!


Suetonius - 2/25/2003

Mr. Carpenter, you shouldn't post positive comments on your own columns to boost them.

"From the moment I saw George and Laura" : this is ridiculous. You clearly weren't watching that day. It was damn cold and rainy, and the Secret Service kept them in the car the entire trip up Pennsylvania Ave because of the demonstrators in Lafayette Square and at the Navy Memorial. The only ones who walked were the honor guards, and they weren't wearing bullet-proof vests.

"When French criticism makes sense" : this is just as risible. You are clearly not engaged in the arguments going on at the UN, or for that matter contemporary affairs at all. I'm ashamed that HNN would run anything along these lines. Is this a blog site or a serious site dedicated to bringing historical inquiry to contemporary affairs.


Marshall - 2/25/2003

Yes, it is. I can't believe a piece like this could get posted here. Isn't this supposed to be a _History_ News site, not some weird blog spot?


Sean Malloy - 2/25/2003

A terrific column...exactly on point. From the moment I saw George and Laura walk down Pennslyvania Avenue, during the Inaugral Parade, with Dubya sporting an obvious bullet-proof vest under his overcoast, I worried about Laura and started to think even less of the man.
Please note that I laughed aloud (one bark of a "Ha") when I read this: "Face it, George: When French criticism starts making sense, you know you're soupe."
This is the first column of your that I have read Mr. Carpenter as I only recently discovered you site. All the best, Sean


Steve Brody - 2/25/2003


Imagine, on the very day that the Washington Post discloses a Democratic Party talking points memo laying out a new strategy to undermine Bush by publicly questioning his credibility, Carpenter posts a column (surprise, surprise), questioning Bush's credibility.

The fascinating part of the memo was the plan to have "the media and other surrogates" question Bush's credibility rather than Democratic members of congress.

I always thought of Carpenter as a Democratic Party apparatchik and hack columnist. This confirms it.


Chris Andersen - 2/25/2003

It's more like an abyss at this time.


Barney Gumble - 2/25/2003

A great article, espicially the "advanced study in fiscal suicide." How can all Republicans every where have simultaneously forgotten their years of bleats about "deficits" and "balanced budgets"? Hangers-on in the court of Caligula were less afraid of speaking the truth.

MediaWhoresOnline Watch Watch Watch Watch
http://mwowatchwatchwatchwatch.blogspot.com/


Richard Henry Morgan - 2/25/2003

I'd say he's more than working on a book of contemporary American demagoguery -- he's writing it. Going straight to Bush while passing over Clinton seems to me like stepping over a dollar to pick up a penny. I'm still trying to figure out what an "individual act of genocide" is. At last count there had been somewhere between 800,000 and 1 million 'individual acts of genocide' in Rwanda, all without triggering the Genocide Convention. The spirit of Orwell found a home in that White House. No doubt all politicians play fast and loose with the facts, but not all lies carry the same moral import.


Gary Robeson - 2/24/2003

While I happen to entirely agree with Mr. Carpenter's opinion, his article is almost entirely polemical. Only paragraphs 6 & 7 have any history at all.

I can read stuff like this at smirkingchimp.com. You guys can do better.